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Will the Hillary Email Scandal Blow Over?

Which Federal rules does her use of a private email server violate? My understanding is that the content of the emails was what was in question.
 
Really?

I guess it bears repeating that this is the same Hillary Clinton who - despite being exonerated repeatedly by Republican led investigations into Benghazi - is still considered by the right wing to have done something nefarious with regards to Benghazi.

Her last name is Clinton. No amount of openness and transparency would be enough to convince the right wing that she's not guilty of some sinister plot.

Yeah, there would still be attacks, but it wouldn't be taken nearly as seriously. It would probably show up on Newsmax and not the NYTs. Bernie supporters wouldn't be giddy. I'd still consider voting for her if it weren't for this and I can't be the only one. I voted for Bill and never gave much of a shit about the various scandals.

And yet Bill used the very same exact private server for his emails while he was in the White House.
 
Yeah, there would still be attacks, but it wouldn't be taken nearly as seriously. It would probably show up on Newsmax and not the NYTs. Bernie supporters wouldn't be giddy. I'd still consider voting for her if it weren't for this and I can't be the only one. I voted for Bill and never gave much of a shit about the various scandals.

And yet Bill used the very same exact private server for his emails while he was in the White House.

All two of them?
 
Yeah, there would still be attacks, but it wouldn't be taken nearly as seriously. It would probably show up on Newsmax and not the NYTs. Bernie supporters wouldn't be giddy. I'd still consider voting for her if it weren't for this and I can't be the only one. I voted for Bill and never gave much of a shit about the various scandals.

And yet Bill used the very same exact private server for his emails while he was in the White House.

Where did you get this info? You think Hillary was using a 17 year old server with a first generation Pentium I chip in? What software cold possibly run on that?
 
A fairly balanced discussion of the issue: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...lary-clintons-email-did-she-follow-all-rules/


We also don’t know if the State Department had signed off on Clinton’s private server or if the server met government security standards, though the State Department was aware of the server. At the press conference, Clinton said the server was set up for former President Bill Clinton’s office and that it had "numerous safeguards."

The State Department has said there is no indication her account was breached.
 
A fairly balanced discussion of the issue: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...lary-clintons-email-did-she-follow-all-rules/


We also don’t know if the State Department had signed off on Clinton’s private server or if the server met government security standards, though the State Department was aware of the server. At the press conference, Clinton said the server was set up for former President Bill Clinton’s office and that it had "numerous safeguards."

The State Department has said there is no indication her account was breached.

Hillary, was talking out her ass at that press conference. Whatever was set up for Bill Clinton was not what was set up in her basement in Manhattan or at Platte River Networks in Denver. How would the State Department even know if there was an indication of a breach when they aren't administering the servers?
 
Hillary's emails are back in the news. In a sample of 40 the Inspector General found 2 that contained "top secret" info. Sending top secret info over a private network is a felony. One of the servers she turned into the Justice Department was wiped clean. Obstruction of justice?

The cover story seem to be that the top secret info was forwarded to her and it was not clear at the time that it was top secret.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/12/u...ive-to-the-justice-department.html?ref=topics

and

http://www.vox.com/2015/8/12/9137705/clinton-email-top-secret

I've got a buddy who is betting me steak dinner that she will drop out of the race in 5 months. Should I take the bet?

This is shaping up to be less of a Watergate type scandal and more of a Whitewater pseudo-scandal type. The Watergate scandal was about a sitting president committing multiple felonies. The Whitewater pseudo-scandal was not about the crimes that were supposedly committed, no one could ever explain what if any crimes were committed, but everything to do with the targets of the pseudo-scandal, the Clintons and the overwhelming desire of those who kept the so-called scandal alive for nearly a decade to prove that the Clintons were guilty of something.

Even if they couldn't prove that they were, the pseudo scandal was kept alive so that people could say that the fact that the pseudo scandal is being discussed proves that the Clintons aren't honest, that they had no integrity and that they couldn't be trusted. The exact same thing that is being said about Clinton now in about this email pseudo scandal. The same that was said about Clinton in the Benghazi pseudo scandal.

I don't even know what the supposed problem is with the emails. The State Department had no prohibition against what Clinton did, they allowed employees to use their own email server, requiring only that if you used your own server it has to be secured, referring to anti-hacking software generally. That Clinton didn't know the details of her email system or even that she was using her own private server shouldn't surprise anyone.

Did Clinton do something illegal? We have no way of knowing.

Certainly nothing has been proven, nothing even suggested by the investigation. The FBI isn't targeting Clinton.

The worse that has been inferred is that she somehow compromised national security by using the personal server. Or that she used the personal server to prevent having to turn emails over under a Freedom of Information request. But neither really stand up to any kind of logic. Emails are not very useful until they are sent to someone else. Multiple copies of an email are made, at least one for every step in the process including the email clients of both the sender and the receiver as well as email service provider of both the sender and the receiver. That is four copies as a start, each subjected to hacking or subpoena. Email, even encrypted email, is not suitable for sending state secrets.
 

Hillary, was talking out her ass at that press conference. Whatever was set up for Bill Clinton was not what was set up in her basement in Manhattan or at Platte River Networks in Denver. How would the State Department even know if there was an indication of a breach when they aren't administering the servers?

So Hillary Clinton was NOT using a personal email server while she was at the State Department (& before)? Or are you claiming that Bill Clinton didn't while he was the President?
 
Hillary, was talking out her ass at that press conference. Whatever was set up for Bill Clinton was not what was set up in her basement in Manhattan or at Platte River Networks in Denver. How would the State Department even know if there was an indication of a breach when they aren't administering the servers?

So Hillary Clinton was NOT using a personal email server while she was at the State Department (& before)? Or are you claiming that Bill Clinton didn't while he was the President?

I'm replying to one specific point

Clinton said the server was set up for former President Bill Clinton’s office and that it had "numerous safeguards."

Implying it was the exact same server which you echoed further up. A server around Bill's time would have been a Intel 386, 486, SPARC? Although you could theoretically install FreeBSD or Linux on this old stuff, I'm assuming she didn't do it herself and hired someone. I can't imagine anyone advising her to keep that kind of old equipment.
 
So Hillary Clinton was NOT using a personal email server while she was at the State Department (& before)? Or are you claiming that Bill Clinton didn't while he was the President?

I'm replying to one specific point

Clinton said the server was set up for former President Bill Clinton’s office and that it had "numerous safeguards."

Implying it was the exact same server which you echoed further up. A server around Bill's time would have been a Intel 386, 486, SPARC? Although you could theoretically install FreeBSD or Linux on this old stuff, I'm assuming she didn't do it herself and hired someone. I can't imagine anyone advising her to keep that kind of old equipment.

I think you are being grossly pedantic and ignoring the actual point. Bill Clinton, as the President of the United States, used a personal secure server for his email. No one, including you, appears to have an issue with that. Why is it suddenly the scandal of the century when Hillary Clinton - BEFORE she was Secretary of State - had a personal secure server set up for her by the same people who set up the President's.

The email server was set up while she was running for President the first time, well before she became Secretary of State. The actual rule about using the .gov email service (for record keeping reasons, not even about security) didn't actually start until either just before or just after her tenure as Secretary of State ended. Her predecessors did not use a .gov email system, even though it was "recommended"
 
I'm replying to one specific point

Clinton said the server was set up for former President Bill Clinton’s office and that it had "numerous safeguards."

Implying it was the exact same server which you echoed further up. A server around Bill's time would have been a Intel 386, 486, SPARC? Although you could theoretically install FreeBSD or Linux on this old stuff, I'm assuming she didn't do it herself and hired someone. I can't imagine anyone advising her to keep that kind of old equipment.

I think you are being grossly pedantic and ignoring the actual point. Bill Clinton, as the President of the United States, used a personal secure server for his email. No one, including you, appears to have an issue with that. Why is it suddenly the scandal of the century when Hillary Clinton - BEFORE she was Secretary of State - had a personal secure server set up for her by the same people who set up the President's.
I believe the rules were different. But as the article you cited said
We interviewed several experts on government transparency and records preservation. While Clinton might be able to put together a case that she "complied" with the rules, experts said her actions are nevertheless hard to defend.....
"While Clinton may have technical arguments for why she complied with each of these and the other rules that have been discussed in the news, the argument that Clinton complied with the letter and spirit of the law is unsustainable," said Douglas Cox, a law professor at City University of New York who studies records preservation.

Do I think this story has more life because it is about Hillary Clinton? Yes. Do I think it is a scandal? Nothing yet has surfaced to indicate there is anything scandalous. Do I think she is being picked on because she is Hillary Clinton? I think it is because she is presidential candidate Hillary Clinton.

But I do think this is a legitimate issue to discuss because I think it does portray Ms. Clinton is less than an advantageous light. And it does fit into the narrative of general Clintonian slight of hand.
 
I'm replying to one specific point

Clinton said the server was set up for former President Bill Clinton’s office and that it had "numerous safeguards."

Implying it was the exact same server which you echoed further up. A server around Bill's time would have been a Intel 386, 486, SPARC? Although you could theoretically install FreeBSD or Linux on this old stuff, I'm assuming she didn't do it herself and hired someone. I can't imagine anyone advising her to keep that kind of old equipment.

I think you are being grossly pedantic and ignoring the actual point. Bill Clinton, as the President of the United States, used a personal secure server for his email. No one, including you, appears to have an issue with that. Why is it suddenly the scandal of the century when Hillary Clinton BEFORE she was Secretary of State - had a personal secure server set up for her by the same people who set up the President's.

The email server was set up while she was running for President the first time, well before she became Secretary of State. The actual rule about using the .gov email service (for record keeping reasons, not even about security) didn't actually start until either just before or just after her tenure as Secretary of State ended. Her predecessors did not use a .gov email system, even though it was "recommended"

Email was mostly a novelty when Bill was President. I've read that he sent two from office and he set up something like prez@aol.com -- which isn't the same thing as what Hillary did: She registered a domain ClintonEmail.com, hid it through multiple levels of privacy (See this post ), and had hardware in at least two locations. One of which was wiped clean. At lest with AOL the government can possibly subpoena backups.

She might not technically have broken the letter of the law, but she sure did break the spirit of the record keeping law. It's pretty obvious to me why she did it, she wanted to get around FOIA requests and be able to delete anything that might jeopardize her political career. Her excuse -- convenience -- doesn't make sense considering she has plenty of assistants to carry around her things.

Rice and Powell had Gmail accounts that they used occasionally when they didn't have access to a government system, but they always forwarded it into the government system. Google never really deletes anything as a matter of policy, so the government can get that.

I haven't been harping on any classified info, because we don't know. However, the Department of Defense and the Department of State have special networks called SIPRNet to protect those things. It’s an entirely different routing protocol that doesn’t communicate with the normal internet. I find it odd that Hillary didn’t need to send any classified emails from 2009 – 2013.
 
For the record I took the bet that this will blow over. I've never really been anti-Hillary, but this rubs me the wrong way. I get the impression that she blithely thinks she is above the law. I'll still vote for her depending on who the Republicans come up with, because I don't think she would fuck up the Supreme Court nominations.
 
According to Colin Powell's aide, he did not "forward it into the government system". He did exactly what Hillary Clinton did:

Like Hillary Clinton, former Secretary of State Colin Powell also used a personal email account during his tenure at the State Department, an aide confirmed in a statement.

“He was not aware of any restrictions nor does he recall being made aware of any over the four years he served at State,” the statement says. “He sent emails to his staff generally via their State Department email addresses. These emails should be on the State Department computers. He might have occasionally used personal email addresses, as he did when emailing to family and friends.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/...-secretary-of-state-115707.html#ixzz3ivjD3PcR

Colin Powell, Rice’s predecessor at State, said on Sunday that he didn’t retain any of the emails he sent from his personal account while he was in office.
“I don’t have any to turn over. I did not keep a cache of them. I did not print them off. I do not have thousands of pages somewhere in my personal files,” Powell said on ABC’s “This Week.” “A lot of the emails that came out of my personal account went into the State Department system. They were addressed to State Department employees and state.gov domain, but I don’t know if the servers in the State Department captured those or not.”


Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/...ls-state-department-115941.html#ixzz3ivrQ5cdE

You are correct that email was in its early days during Bill Clinton's presidency, and it appears the server I referenced was actually set up by his people after he was out of office. I stand corrected on that. On the other hand, using gmail or aol for sensitive government business? Talk about unsecure.
 
And I am still trying to figure out what the scandal is given that the rules Hillary Clinton is accused of violating were not in place until after she left her position as Secretary of State

The Federal Records Act requires government agencies to preserve records documenting the “organization, functions, policies, decisions, procedures and essential transactions” of an agency’s business. But it was only last year that Congress passed, and President Barack Obama signed, a law with a series of modern-day changes to improve recordkeeping and preservation.

The 2014 overhaul, which postdates Mrs. Clinton’s tenure at the State Department, placed explicit limits on agency officials using private email accounts for official business. The new law said agency officials can’t create or send a government record on a private account unless they also copy or forward the email to their official government email address.

The National Archives and Records Administration in September 2013 issued guidance to federal agencies that said federal employees generally shouldn’t use personal email accounts to conduct official business, except in limited situations, such as during emergencies when an official may not be able to access an official account.

That 2013 guidance, which also postdated Mrs. Clinton’s tenure, replaced a 2008 memo on federal recordkeeping that didn’t specifically address email records.

But in 2009, the National Archives did issue regulations that said agencies allowing employees to do official business on nonofficial email accounts had to ensure that any records sent on private email systems are preserved “in the appropriate agency recordkeeping system.”
http://www.wsj.com/articles/hillary...se-came-before-recent-rule-changes-1425415233

So Hillary cc'd her staff via their State Department email addresses, same as Colin Powell, and thereby complied with the 2009 National Archive rule. Any rules about not using a personal email did not exist prior to her leaving her position, and it appears that none of the rules to date are about security.
 
The email server was set up while she was running for President the first time, well before she became Secretary of State. The actual rule about using the .gov email service (for record keeping reasons, not even about security) didn't actually start until either just before or just after her tenure as Secretary of State ended. Her predecessors did not use a .gov email system, even though it was "recommended"

I wouldn't be so sure about the first part of that. She announced in 2007 and lost in 2008. She didn't register ClintonEmail.com until January 2009.

I never said Hillary was stupid, she probably research the hell out of the laws and figured out exactly what she could get away. We have FOIA, The Federal Records Act, and the NARA regs for a reason – and she deliberately skirted their intent. Is that the kind of person you want to be President?
 
The email server was set up while she was running for President the first time, well before she became Secretary of State. The actual rule about using the .gov email service (for record keeping reasons, not even about security) didn't actually start until either just before or just after her tenure as Secretary of State ended. Her predecessors did not use a .gov email system, even though it was "recommended"

I wouldn't be so sure about the first part of that. She announced in 2007 and lost in 2008. She didn't register ClintonEmail.com until January 2009.

I never said Hillary was stupid, she probably research the hell out of the laws and figured out exactly what she could get away. We have FOIA, The Federal Records Act, and the NARA regs for a reason – and she deliberately skirted their intent. Is that the kind of person you want to be President?

What other choice is there? Trump?
 
I wouldn't be so sure about the first part of that. She announced in 2007 and lost in 2008. She didn't register ClintonEmail.com until January 2009.

I never said Hillary was stupid, she probably research the hell out of the laws and figured out exactly what she could get away. We have FOIA, The Federal Records Act, and the NARA regs for a reason – and she deliberately skirted their intent. Is that the kind of person you want to be President?

What other choice is there? Trump?

Yeah, we are kinda fucked. :)
 
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