Yet another school shooting

[bilby]

Here is a conversation from another website that I frequent:

"Just saw an interesting article. Did you know that ice cream sales soar during June, July and August? Did you ALSO know that the murder rate in the U.S. goes UP in June, July and August every year? So, by the logic of the left…?"

" We could save lives if we could just get Congress to ban ice cream. Join me in a march on Washington to save lives by banning ice cream!"

"I have a right to eat ice cream. Do I need a license now to eat ice cream?? "

I honestly don't know how to respond to such fucking stupidity. These people are allowed to vote.

The point is correlation != causation. When there's a problem a lot of people will jump on the first correlation they see and insist it's the cause of the problem.

Sure.

But if you say that the correlation between ice cream sales, and the incidence of ice cream headaches, is "just a correlation", and therefore no causal link can be reasonably inferred, then you are a fucking moron.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Here is a conversation from another website that I frequent:

"Just saw an interesting article. Did you know that ice cream sales soar during June, July and August? Did you ALSO know that the murder rate in the U.S. goes UP in June, July and August every year? So, by the logic of the left…?"

" We could save lives if we could just get Congress to ban ice cream. Join me in a march on Washington to save lives by banning ice cream!"

"I have a right to eat ice cream. Do I need a license now to eat ice cream?? "

I honestly don't know how to respond to such fucking stupidity. These people are allowed to vote.

The point is correlation != causation. When there's a problem a lot of people will jump on the first correlation they see and insist it's the cause of the problem.

The point is bullshit. The real world point is that he was able to quickly dispatch the lives of over a dozen people because of the weapon he had. You can cram the correlation - causation strawman back up with the ace hole.

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And not let him buy an AR-15 or any other kind of a gun.

Agreed.

But the left wanted to put the mental health records into a nationwide police database. As normal, they let their overreach cause it to fail.

Yes, the Left is the source of this and not the NRA.

 

[RavenSky]

...the left wanted to put the mental health records into a nationwide police database. As normal, they let their overreach cause it to fail.

Since when if the fucking NRA's Dana Loesch "the left"

 

[RavenSky]

Did anyone watch the CNN Town Hall?

 

[barbos]

Anyone watching the CNN Townhall?

I watched a little bit. There was a girl with a question to which Jake Tapper said to senator "You don't have to answer this question" and then she said "That's OK, I have another one". I missed the question, what was it?

Rubio refused to refuse to take NRA money. That's all you need to know about this.

 

[Rhea]

And not let him buy an AR-15 or any other kind of a gun.

Agreed.

But the left wanted to put the mental health records into a nationwide police database. As normal, they let their overreach cause it to fail.

Except that is the whole issue, when can constitutional rights be taken away. The normal process is going through a court system and the judge then would take it away with due process. The courts have been very lenient on things like that or locking people up. We couldn't keep my ex in a mental hospital even though that was what she needed for a long time.

Interestingly, many of the people who think it’s wrong to take away constitutional right to own gun despite violence (e.g. domestic abusers as well as swastika -writers) have no problem taking away people’s constitutional right to vote over not having voted in two elections and failing to answer a mailed letter.

 

[RavenSky]

Anyone watching the CNN Townhall?

I watched a little bit. There was a girl with a question to which Jake Tapper said to senator "You don't have to answer this question" and then she said "That's OK, I have another one". I missed the question, what was it?

She was grilling Bill Nelson about "blood money" from the NRA, but Bill Nelson doesn't take NRA money, proudly has an "F" rating from them, and votes in favor of various gun reform.

 

[RavenSky]

Rubio refused to refuse to take NRA money. That's all you need to know about this.

He did publicly commit to raising the age to 21 for people to purchase a rifle and outlawing "large capacity" magazines; and is against arming teachers.

He is still a NRA tool, but I will give him credit for (1) showing up, (2) attempting to explain some of the very involved issues behind some of the proposed laws, and (3) committing to taking at least teeny tiny baby steps in the right direction*.

* if he actually follows through

 

[Underseer]

...the left wanted to put the mental health records into a nationwide police database. As normal, they let their overreach cause it to fail.

Since when if the fucking NRA's Dana Loesch "the left"

Loren self-identifies to the right of Hitler. Compared to him, the NRA is "left."

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Rubio refused to refuse to take NRA money. That's all you need to know about this.

He did publicly commit to raising the age to 21 for people to purchase a rifle and outlawing "large capacity" magazines; and is against arming teachers.

He is still a NRA tool, but I will give him credit for (1) showing up, (2) attempting to explain some of the very involved issues behind some of the proposed laws, and (3) committing to taking at least teeny tiny baby steps in the right direction*.

* if he actually follows through

That's a mighty big if, particularly when it comes to Republicans.

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[Jimmy Higgins]

We took god out of school in 1998?

 

[Elixir]

We took god out of school in 1998?

Yup. Our power over the Christian god seems limitless.

 

[Playball40]

Did anyone watch the CNN Town Hall?

yup

 

[Playball40]

He tweeted the next day that although the room was full of people wanting to outlaw assault weapons, the majority of the population is against it. Uh, bullshit. So in typical Rubio fashion, he backpeddled. However, the NRA spokesperson made me want to jump through the screen with her lies.

Rubio refused to refuse to take NRA money. That's all you need to know about this.

He did publicly commit to raising the age to 21 for people to purchase a rifle and outlawing "large capacity" magazines; and is against arming teachers.

He is still a NRA tool, but I will give him credit for (1) showing up, (2) attempting to explain some of the very involved issues behind some of the proposed laws, and (3) committing to taking at least teeny tiny baby steps in the right direction*.

* if he actually follows through

 

[RavenSky]

Stoneman Douglas student shooting survivor Sam Zeif was asked if he felt like he was heard at the White House. He answered, “I know I was heard because I saw it on Trump’s little card.”

 

[Rhea]

Stoneman Douglas student shooting survivor Sam Zeif was asked if he felt like he was heard at the White House. He answered, “I know I was heard because I saw it on Trump’s little card.”

Funny but so so sad.

 

[Rhea]

So the news today that the school officer stayed outside behind a concrete column during the shooting says to me...

That shootings are scary fucking things even for trained armed officers. And it is insane to think arming teachers will make them ready to fight and that really, let’s just get rid of the damn rapid fire weapons.

 

[Horatio Parker]

What I Saw Treating the Victims From Parkland Should Change the Debate on Guns

Routine handgun injuries leave entry and exit wounds and linear tracks through the victim's body that are roughly the size of the bullet. If the bullet does not directly hit something crucial like the heart or the aorta, and they do not bleed to death before being transported to our care at a trauma center, chances are, we can save the victim. The bullets fired by an AR-15 are different; they travel at higher velocity and are far more lethal. The damage they cause is a function of the energy they impart as they pass through the body. A typical AR-15 bullet leaves the barrel traveling almost three times faster than, and imparting more than three times the energy of, a typical 9mm bullet from a handgun. An AR-15 rifle outfitted with a magazine with 50 rounds allows many more lethal bullets to be delivered quickly without reloading.

I have seen a handful of AR-15 injuries in my career. I saw one from a man shot in the back by a SWAT team years ago. The injury along the path of the bullet from an AR-15 is vastly different from a low-velocity handgun injury. The bullet from an AR-15 passes through the body like a cigarette boat travelling at maximum speed through a tiny canal. The tissue next to the bullet is elastic—moving away from the bullet like waves of water displaced by the boat—and then returns and settles back. This process is called cavitation; it leaves the displaced tissue damaged or killed. The high-velocity bullet causes a swath of tissue damage that extends several inches from its path. It does not have to actually hit an artery to damage it and cause catastrophic bleeding. Exit wounds can be the size of an orange.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...land-should-change-the-debate-on-guns/553937/

 

[bilby]

Routine handgun injuries leave entry and exit wounds and linear tracks through the victim's body that are roughly the size of the bullet. If the bullet does not directly hit something crucial like the heart or the aorta, and they do not bleed to death before being transported to our care at a trauma center, chances are, we can save the victim. The bullets fired by an AR-15 are different; they travel at higher velocity and are far more lethal. The damage they cause is a function of the energy they impart as they pass through the body. A typical AR-15 bullet leaves the barrel traveling almost three times faster than, and imparting more than three times the energy of, a typical 9mm bullet from a handgun. An AR-15 rifle outfitted with a magazine with 50 rounds allows many more lethal bullets to be delivered quickly without reloading.

I have seen a handful of AR-15 injuries in my career. I saw one from a man shot in the back by a SWAT team years ago. The injury along the path of the bullet from an AR-15 is vastly different from a low-velocity handgun injury. The bullet from an AR-15 passes through the body like a cigarette boat travelling at maximum speed through a tiny canal. The tissue next to the bullet is elastic—moving away from the bullet like waves of water displaced by the boat—and then returns and settles back. This process is called cavitation; it leaves the displaced tissue damaged or killed. The high-velocity bullet causes a swath of tissue damage that extends several inches from its path. It does not have to actually hit an artery to damage it and cause catastrophic bleeding. Exit wounds can be the size of an orange.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...land-should-change-the-debate-on-guns/553937/

Point of physics - energy is proportional to the square of velocity. All else being equal, three times the muzzle velocity implies nine times the energy, not merely three times.

Of course, reality is rather more complicated than that; the bullet mass of an AR-15 round is about half that of a 9mm handgun round (typically 62 grains for the 5.56 NATO, or 55 grains for the .223 Remington in the AR-15, vs 115 grains for the 9mm), and the higher velocity implies a possibly higher exit energy, and less energy dumped into the tissues of the victim (although that depends a lot on the actual path taken through the victim's body). But certainly you should expect considerably more than a threefold increase in damage from the threefold increase in bullet velocity - the actual energy of the bullet is closer to between four and four-and-a-half times as high as that of a 9mm handgun round.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So the news today that the school officer stayed outside behind a concrete column during the shooting says to me...

That shootings are scary fucking things even for trained armed officers. And it is insane to think arming teachers will make them ready to fight and that really, let’s just get rid of the damn rapid fire weapons.

Yeah, this whole “we’ll arm more people” idea seems to not recognize that a gun fight isn’t a video game. Especially when the enemy is armed better than the ‘good guy with a gun’.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

So the news today that the school officer stayed outside behind a concrete column during the shooting says to me...

That shootings are scary fucking things even for trained armed officers. And it is insane to think arming teachers will make them ready to fight and that really, let’s just get rid of the damn rapid fire weapons.

Yeah, this whole “we’ll arm more people” idea seems to not recognize that a gun fight isn’t a video game. Especially when the enemy is armed better than the ‘good guy with a gun’.

What do you mean? His gun and his wall both saved him.