Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[Politesse]

And, incidentally, what makes the Arabs "indigenous"? Their ancestors haven't lived there for thousands of years. Their ancestors came from Arabia 1400 years ago and seized it from the Byzantines, i.e., the Romans, whose ancestors seized it from the Jews, whose ancestors seized it from the Canaanites, whose ancestors seized it from the [many seizures skipped], whose ancestors seized it from the descendants of the first H. sapiens sapiens to live there, who seized it from the Neanderthals. "Indigenous" is a word that means whoever the speaker wants it to mean.]

That is factually incorrect on nearly all counts... both Arab and Jewish Palestinians have ancient ancestral ties to the land, that's a major reason for the present vicious conflict.

 

[Gospel]

Certainly, there's a long history of conquests. Guess it's wrong to identify who is currently engaged in expansion and who is attempting to maintain their position.

"Throughout history, humans have fought over land. It's not justifiable to single us out for similar actions. At the very least, reserve judgment until the situation is resolved." - Somebody somewhere-

 

[Gospel]

So that whole paragraph following that quote wasn't an answer. Talk about American.

 

[laughing dog]

The part in bold was made up by you, and wasn't said or implied by the Democratic Socialists of America NYC chapter.

It was certainly implied by DSA supporting this rally that comes a day after all this. Also, in the lexicon of Israel haters, "resistance" explicitly means Palestinian terrorism, i.e. murder and other atrocities against Israeli civilians

You conflate “implied” with “ inferred”. You’ve presented no evidence to support your inference. It is both intellectually lazy and morally

 

[Derec]

You conflate “implied” with “ inferred”.

I do not.

You’ve presented no evidence to support your inference. It is both intellectually lazy and morally

I did. That you chose to ignore it is on you.
DSA supports Palestinian terrorism in general and their murderous attack on Israeli civilians that happened this Saturday in particular. That they use euphemisms like "resistance" is not fooling anybody. Except you and bilby, apparently.

 

[Derec]

Do you truly believe that if you kill enough terrorists, it will cause peace to happen?

It certainly can thwart their operational ability if they are kept on the defensive and if their members (esp. those in leadership) keep getting eliminated.
Israel got a bit lax in going after Hamas in Gaza, and they were able to build up their capabilities. Both weapons and training.
I hope they do not make that mistake again.
US has been actively pursuing Al Qaeda and ISIS, including using drones to go after leaders, and it contributed to reduced ability of those groups to stage terrorist attacks in the West. Israel should do no different.

US and allies also waged war against Germany and Japan that led to a total defeat of both countries. And it led to peace. Do you really think a ceasefire in 1942 that left Hitler in power would have been better?

 

[Gospel]

In Israel, they aim to counteract Nazis extremists in Gaza Strip. We should be careful, yes, about supporting such groups. Historical connections of land to Russia people of Israel, they cannot be forgotten.- A leader from another nation-

 

[Gospel]

US and allies also waged war against Germany and Japan that led to a total defeat of both countries. And it led to peace. Do you really think a ceasefire in 1942 that left Hitler in power would have been better?

It's more preferable than dividing Germany with Nazis on the east and Jews on the west.

 

[laughing dog]

You conflate “implied” with “ inferred”.

I do not.

Wrong. You drew a conclusion but that neither means the DSA intended such a meaning or that your conclusion is accurate.

You’ve presented no evidence to support your inference. It is both intellectually lazy and morally

I did. That you chose to ignore it is on you.
DSA supports Palestinian terrorism in general and their murderous attack on Israeli civilians that happened this Saturday in particular. That they use euphemisms like "resistance" is not fooling anybody. Except you and bilby, apparently.

You seem to have a problem with the English language. As shown above, you appear to conflate “ inference” with “ implied”. Now you appear to believe that unsourced claims are “ evidence”.

Perhaps the DSA supports murderous attacks on civilians, not unlike your support of murderous attacks on civilians by the IDF. But you have yet to present actual evidence that supports your contention.

 

[Derec]

Perhaps you could communicate with the former source to let him know it's a bad idea to make claims even worse than the NY Post would do.

AOC has not distanced herself from the Democratic Socialists of America, of which she is a member, and who are supporting the genocidal Hamas.
Also:
NYC pro-Palestine rally splits Democrats over Israel

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Jamaal Bowman, who denounced the attacks and called for a ceasefire but didn’t take a stand on the rally.

An immediate ceasefire and de-escalation is urgently needed to save lives.

Calling for a ceasefire right after Hamas managed to murder up to a 1000 Israelis is quite disingenuous. Should US have agreed to a ceasefire with Al Qaeda right after 9/11? And 10/7 is, on a proportional basis, a far worse terrorist attack than even 9/11 was for US.
Israel has the right, and a national duty, to root out Hamas. No premature ceasefires!

Rep. Cori Bush, (D-Mo.) a Democratic Socialist, was more critical of Israel than some of her colleagues.
“As part of achieving a just and lasting peace, we must do our part to stop this violence and trauma by ending U.S government support for Israeli military occupation and apartheid,” she said in a statement.

I.e. she is blaming Israel and thinks they should have fewer means to defend themselves. Also showing that she is one of the dimmest bulbs in the House chandelier.
Besides, Gaza hasn't been occupied for almost 20 years. That is the problem - they chose violence and terror instead of peace and prosperity. Should occupation of the so-called West Bank be ended as well, what is the reason not to think the same thing will not happen there as well?

Rashdia Tlaib also blamed Israel rather than Hamas and their (pay)masters IRGC.

Tlaib said she continues to “grieve the Palestinian and Israeli lives lost yesterday, today, and every day,” before calling for “dismantling the apartheid system that creates the suffocating, dehumanizing conditions that can lead to resistance.” She has previously criticized the Israeli government and had denounced a House resolution supporting Israel in a floor speech in July.

Tlaib, Bush criticized by Democrats over statements calling for end to Israel support

 

[Derec]

Wrong. You drew a conclusion but that neither means the DSA intended such a meaning or that your conclusion is accurate.

I drew a conclusion that was justified by the common lexicon of anti-Israel activism and that has been proven accurate by the content of the rally they support. You have nothing except for your usual retreat to irrelevant equivocations.

You seem to have a problem with the English language. As sh. own above, you appear to conflate “ inference” with “ implied”. Now you appear to believe that unsourced claims are “ evidence”.

I do not have a problem with English language. You may say that DSA implied their support for Hamas terrorism. In that case, I correctly inferred their meaning. I do not think it is even that. Their use of language like "resistance" is well understood. It is not an implicit meaning, it was quite explicit. And their statements on the rally yesterday that I also linked to, removes all doubt as to what that tweet from Saturday meant. Except that you keep ignoring it just to argue. It is getting tiresome.

Perhaps the DSA supports murderous attacks on civilians, not unlike your support of murderous attacks on civilians by the IDF. But you have yet to present actual evidence that supports your contention.

- They do support murderous attacks on civilians.
- I do not.
- I have presented evidence. You keep ignoring it. That's on you. Everybody else understood DSA loud and clear, their supporters and opponents alike.

 

[laughing dog]

Wrong. You drew a conclusion but that neither means the DSA intended such a meaning or that your conclusion is accurate.

I drew a conclusion that was justified by the common lexicon of anti-Israel activism and that has been proven accurate by the content of the rally they support. You have nothing except for your usual retreat to irrelevant equivocations.

I don’t see why you are arguing - you admit you conflated “ inference “ with “ implied”.

This is a nuanced but important point. You appear to conflate what you belief to be true (i. . Inference) with what is actually true (i.e. implied).

I do not have a problem with English language. You may say that DSA implied their support for Hamas terrorism. In that case, I correctly inferred their meaning. I do not think it is even that. Their use of language like "resistance" is well understood. It is not an implicit meaning, it was quite explicit. And their statements on the rally yesterday that I also linked to, removes all doubt as to what that tweet from Saturday meant. Except that you keep ignoring it just to argue. It is getting tiresome.

I agree your responses are tiresome. When you have to “interpret” what the DSA means from their statements, your interpretation is evidence of your beliefs, command of English and reasoning, not of their beliefs or intentions.

The term “resistance” is well understood to mean to oppose or reject something. Despite your claims to the contrary, that need not mean violence.

Perhaps the DSA supports murderous attacks on civilians, not unlike your support of murderous attacks on civilians by the IDF. But you have yet to present actual evidence that supports your contention.

- They do support murderous attacks on civilians.
- I do not.
- I have presented evidence. You keep ignoring it. That's on you. Everybody else understood DSA loud and clear, both their supporters and opponents.

I realize you believe putting words in the mouths of your ideological opponents is presenting evidence of their beliefs. You are very much mistaken.

Of course you support murderous attacks on civilians. Read your OP. Any heavy reprisal by the IDF ( something you support) means that civilians will be killed.

 

[Derec]

Putin invades Ukraine on the claim it was yawls part of Russia and he is rightly the bad guy.

Putinist Russia is not that different than Hamas.
Hamas invaded Israel on the claim all of Israel is part of "Palestine". Both Hamas and Russia attack civilians (see here for a recent Russian example). And both are allied to the regime in Tehran.

Jews in Plasticine declared a Jewish state, seized Arab land without compensation,

Was it really "Arab land"? It was under British, before then Ottoman. The last independent state that was natively ruled was the Hasmonean Kingdom of, checking notes, Israel.

Going back to 1948, Israel accepted the Partition while Arabs rejected it and they then started a war against Israel. That pattern will repeat itself for the next 75 years, with Arabs attacking to destroy Israel, and Israel defending itself.

did not allow Arabs to return to their homes after the war,

And Jews from the Arab controlled areas did not return there but settled in Israel. The difference is, they were integrated into the society, instead of making their descendens "refugees" in perpetuity.
One note though on so-called "refugees". UNRWA (a UN agency tasked specifically with "Palestinian refugees" for some reason) defines descendens of Arabs who lived in the area between 1946 and 1948 as perpetual "refugees". Only a two year residency is required! And even Hamas leaders like acknowledge that Palestinians are really from elsewhere.

Another POS who needs to be on a receiving end of a missile quickly.

and made a state of Jewish culture region, and language. Arabs in Israel were not given equal status as citizens.

Arabs in Israel have more rights than Arabs in most, if not all, Arab countries. Including especially Gaza given how oppressive Hamas rule is. They certainly have infinitely more rights than Jews would have in "Palestine".
Abbas wants 'not a single Israeli' in future Palestinian state
Again, attempts at moral equivalence here, or worse, claiming that Israel is somehow worse, are just laughable.

so it is rightly the capitol of Israel.

Jerusalem had been a capital of Israel for centuries. It was never a capital of any "Palestine". History is enough, no need to invoke any deities.

Israel has been doing a slow motion ethnic licensing of the West Bank. Palestinian homes and business bulldozed to make room for Jewish settlements.

Ethnic cleansing is not a proper term when the population of the supposedly "cleansed" ethnic group is growing steadily.

On the other hand, Gaza is now virtually judenrein. Not a single Jew lives there except for the hostages taken by Hamas terrorists.

Israel seized farmland held farmland owned by generations of a Palestinian family. Whwen questioned Netanyahu said it was just a small piece of land.

[citation needed]

One rationale for taking Plasticine lands is there is no ownership documentation gong back in history, therefore they never really owned it to begin with.

Plasticine lands?

Putin is a bad guy, but Israel gets a pass.

Putin is more like Ismail Haniyeh, Yaya Sinwar et al. Again, Hamas invaded Israel. Hamas wants to destroy Israel. Hamas murders civilians. Hamas is aligned with Tehran. Just like Putin.

No politician wants to be openly critical of a Jewish state for the risk of being labeled racist. Yet it is difficult if not impossible to get Israeli citizenship if you are not Jewish. I call that racist.

Not every country has a birthright citizenship or open immigration. There is nothing wrong with basing citizenship largely on ethnicity.
There are dozens of Arab states that nobody has a problem with existing. But one Jewish state is a problem. That's antisemitic in my opinion.

Netanyahu is the Israeli equivalent of an American Evangelical Christian biblical literalist.

I don't think so. But his administration really screwed up. He needs to finish the job crushing Hamas and then resign.

 

[TV and credit cards]

It’ll be interesting to see Israel’s response. And the US will have to wear it.

Biden has some critical decisions to make. It looks like Netanyahu is going down a very dark path. We cannot support this shit.

 

[laughing dog]

It’ll be interesting to see Israel’s response. And the US will have to wear it.

Biden has some critical decisions to make. It looks like Netanyahu is going down a very dark path. We cannot support this shit.

Like it or not, Israel is a longtime ally. The USA will stand by Israel on this, even if it means grinning and bearing it.

The idea that anyone can "crush" Hamas ignores the clear history of that region.

 

[Derec]

I don’t see why you are arguing - you admit you conflated “ inference “ with “ implied”.

I admitted to no such conflation. As usual, you are having problems with reading comprehension.

This is a nuanced but important point. You appear to conflate what you belief to be true (i. . Inference) with what is actually true (i.e. implied).

When a writer (or speaker) implies something, the reader (or listener) infers the meaning. They are separate, but related concepts. Of course, somebody may infer the wrong meaning. Like you when you misinterpreted what DSA meant by "resistance".

I agree your responses are tiresome. When you have to “interpret” what the DSA means from their statements, your interpretation is evidence of your beliefs, command of English and reasoning, not of their beliefs or intentions.

I correctly interpreted their meaning. You did not. That was evident a day later when the pro-Hamas rally actually took place.

The term “resistance” is well understood to mean to oppose or reject something. Despite your claims to the contrary, that need not mean violence.

The term "resistance" in anti-Israel circles means "Palestinian terrorism". That is well-known. Your willful ignorance of that leads you to misinterpret DSA's clear meaning.
Even if you were genuinely ignorant of it, you should be willing to learn. Read up on the pro-Hamas rally in NYC. It should be quite eye-opening. If you are willing to open them, that is, instead of persisting in your obscurantism.

Of course you support murderous attacks on civilians. Read your OP. Any heavy reprisal by the IDF ( something you support) means that civilians will be killed.

There is a difference between murder and collateral damage. In any war civilians get harmed. That is unavoidable, although IDF goes to great lengths to avoid civilian casualties with tactics such as "roof knocking".
That is different from going into a village or a music festival and deliberately slaughtering civilians. If you do not grok the huge difference between these two things, then your moral compass may be permanently and irreparably broken.

By the way, if you want to see roof knocking in practice. First the roof knock. Note that there is no major damage to the structure.
Then the actual strike that levels the structure.

 

[Derec]

The idea that anyone can "crush" Hamas ignores the clear history of that region.

NSDAP was crushed. Hamas can be crushed too.
Btw, Hitler and the Palestinian Grand Mufti of Jerusalem were allies.

 

[Gospel]

Welcome to the reality where the USA demands obedience from every nation but exempts itself. Will you choose the red pill, awakening to the challenges of questioning authority, or the blue pill, returning to the ease of accepted narratives? Challenge propaganda and risk being labeled as anti-Semitic or a Hamas sympathizer, or find solace in the belief that the USA and its allies can never be wrong. The choice is yours.

 

[Derec]

Biden has some critical decisions to make. It looks like Netanyahu is going down a very dark path. We cannot support this shit.

On the contrary. We must. Time for Dark Brandon to use his dark powers for good.
For one, IRGC should be on US target list.

 

[laughing dog]

I admitted to no such conflation.

Of course you did. You admitted you made an inference.

When a writer (or speaker) implies something, the reader (or listener) infers the meaning. They are separate, but related concepts. Of course, somebody may infer the wrong meaning. Like you when you misinterpreted what DSA meant by "resistance".

In order for a write to "imply something", intent is necessary. Something you have not shown. Just like your misunderstanding of "inference", "implied" "evidence", and "resistance", you don't understand "intent" as well.

I correctly interpreted their meaning. You did not. That was evident a day later when the pro-Hamas rally actually took place.

I realize you are doubling down on your beliefs, but in order to show their true meaning, you need to come up with actual statements that prove you point not your interpretation of their words or actions.

The term "resistance" in anti-Israel circles means "Palestinian terrorism". That is well-known. Your willful ignorance of that leads you to misinterpret DSA's clear meaning.

I know that for some people who object to Israeli police "resistance" does include condoning violence. I also know that for some it does not. Your generalization is either an example of ignorance or bigotry.

There is a difference between murder and collateral damage.

Not to the dead or their surviving families. Your apologia of the IDF's killing of civilians is intellectually lazy, morally reprehensible and pure bigotry,