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Dem Post Mortem

This is politics. Are you saying that doing selective editing would not or should not cause doubts? It's standard practice in yellow journalism used to attack an opposed subject.

Now I suppose I shall have to come right out and say I'm not accusing you of yellow journalism.
Glad to hear it. Doubt what you please -- doubt is the first step on the path to wisdom. But also doubt the hypotheses you form in response to your doubt -- critical thought isn't just for the other guy's arguments. What you accused me of made no sense. You appear to have decided early on in the exchange that whether your hate is justified is more important to you in a post mortem than learning from mistakes, and to have taken for granted that it must therefore also be more important to me.

and you accused her of being dishonorable. I don't give a rat's ass what you say about Trump -- even if you manage to say something untrue he's no doubt guilty of worse -- but Emily deserves better.
Really? So when Elixer also noticed what she did was he wrong too?
I already critiqued that post and he already apologized for it, so I'm not going to drag him back into this. Other posters' opinions don't matter anyway -- whether she's dishonorable isn't determined by vote. If you still want to claim she was strawmanning you, prove it yourself.

And here you are again, making believe "Yes, the working class wants dumb and simple. That is quite clear. They want to be directed and told what to do, just like at their jobs. Little thought needed. Then after work kick back at the bar and toss back a few PBRs and complain about how the big bad guvmint is out to get them because the high taxes on their employers keeps them from getting bigger wages. Sorry. I don't kowtow to the ignorant." is an innocuous attack on many dickish Trump supporters, rather than a dickish attack on the entire working class whether they were dicks to others or not.
When I was working I wanted to just do my job and go home or go to the bar. Others here have expressed that same sentiment. I didn't complain about taxes but many do. It's a hallmark of right wingers. That part should have given you a clue I meant right wing working class people. But I will accept the responsibility for not being clear on that.
Speaking of which, when people complain about taxes it's practically always their own taxes. Have you ever actually heard any big-bad-guvmint-griping PBR-tossing worker actually complain about the high taxes on his employer?!? That lacks the ring of truth. That smacks of words put in workers' mouths by condescending self-appointed better judges of the workers' interests. You appear to be strawmanning right wing working class people.

Emily has a long and well recognized habit of using straw men extensively. But she's polite when she does so so that's a point in her favor. Right?
You've stopped beating your wife, right? Your question assumes facts not in evidence. I don't recall ever seeing Emily deliberately misrepresent somebody else's position. Misunderstand one, certainly; we all do that from time to time. If your attacks on me weren't because I didn't "spew enough hate", well, that's how you came off to her. But since you think using strawmen is "a long and well recognized habit" of hers, you should have no trouble exhibiting a better example, which we can review together.
 
You've stopped beating your wife, right? Your question assumes facts not in evidence. I don't recall ever seeing Emily deliberately misrepresent somebody else's position. Misunderstand one, certainly; we all do that from time to time. If your attacks on me weren't because I didn't "spew enough hate", well, that's how you came off to her. But since you think using strawmen is "a long and well recognized habit" of hers, you should have no trouble exhibiting a better example, which we can review together.
Here you go. Three strawmen all in one post by EL.

Why do you believe that Trump's view is representative of all conservatives?

What leads you to feel that the ads for a single specific candidate represent the views of all conservatives?

What mockery did Fox push that specified college educations? Why do you assume that infotainment has the beliefs of all conservatives nailed?
Why do you argue using strawmen?
 
You've stopped beating your wife, right? Your question assumes facts not in evidence. I don't recall ever seeing Emily deliberately misrepresent somebody else's position. Misunderstand one, certainly; we all do that from time to time. If your attacks on me weren't because I didn't "spew enough hate", well, that's how you came off to her. But since you think using strawmen is "a long and well recognized habit" of hers, you should have no trouble exhibiting a better example, which we can review together.
Here you go. Three strawmen all in one post by EL.

Why do you believe that Trump's view is representative of all conservatives?

What leads you to feel that the ads for a single specific candidate represent the views of all conservatives?

What mockery did Fox push that specified college educations? Why do you assume that infotainment has the beliefs of all conservatives nailed?
Why do you argue using strawmen?
My opinion is probably a direct reflection of others’ opinions of me, but I feel compelled to offer it nonetheless.
I think Emily is unpracticed at maintaining logical consistency or the application of reason to thorny problems, but is rather habituated to issuing conditioned responses when challenged for that. I recognize it in her because I recognize it in myself. Unfortunately she seems to lack such recognition, and so draws a curtain on questions that challenge those limits, without even attempting to answer or even think about them. Prime example: her irrational advocacies for laws that hurt people and benefit nobody, but comport with religious edicts. That is the sort of pig that becomes a lipstick magnet the moment Emily lays eyes on it. No way can she acknowledge the irrationality of such advocacy.
I think of that as a sort of intellectual adolescence. EL is a smart girl, and like all of us, has probably never had to rationalize certain conditioned responses. I think it’s the fact that she has the mental horsepower to overcome such reticence but refuses to apply it to the task, that gets me frustrated with her.
I wish I was a shining example of a person who doesn’t do that, but alas, I too am subject to being victimized by my own conditioning, so that above is the most I can say about it without being justifiably called hypocritical.
I am 100% certain that Emily is a kind and well intended person, and nothing I say to her is going to help her overcome any long held conditioning, so … it is what it is.
 
You've stopped beating your wife, right? Your question assumes facts not in evidence. I don't recall ever seeing Emily deliberately misrepresent somebody else's position. Misunderstand one, certainly; we all do that from time to time. If your attacks on me weren't because I didn't "spew enough hate", well, that's how you came off to her. But since you think using strawmen is "a long and well recognized habit" of hers, you should have no trouble exhibiting a better example, which we can review together.
Here you go. Three strawmen all in one post by EL.

Why do you believe that Trump's view is representative of all conservatives?

What leads you to feel that the ads for a single specific candidate represent the views of all conservatives?

What mockery did Fox push that specified college educations? Why do you assume that infotainment has the beliefs of all conservatives nailed?
Why do you argue using strawmen?
Well that's silly, none of those are strawmen. It should be incredibly easy for you to respond to any of those questions with a genuine response that defuses the situation. But rather than simply say "Well, okay, Trump doesn't actually represent all conservatives, and likely doesn't even represent a majority of conservatives" you instead resort to pretending that they're strawmen.

Look, you're not dumb and neither am I. When you read through these threads, and you see all of the posts maligning conservatives and republicans across the board, without any clarifications added in... you and I both know full well that they're assumed to apply to anyone and everyone who voted for Trump. That's what's conveyed, and it's not even subtle. It's not a misunderstanding on my part, it's clearly intended and it's clearly believed by those who post such BS. So why even bother trying to tap-dance around it and pretend that it's not what was obviously meant?

If you want a counterpoint to this, feel free to note that when I broad-brush complain about progressives, I pretty much intend that it applies to everyone who either claims to be progressive or who consistently supports progressive policies. I know there may be some exceptions, but from my perspective they're rare enough that they don't merit mentioning. On the other hand, however, I rarely denounce liberals (especially given that I am generally liberal myself), and only sporadically attack Democrats. My dissatisfaction is highly focused, and I try to be consistent with it.
 
I would say ignorance can be an excuse.
I’ve been try to convince myself of that. And to remember that it’s a bad idea to cite malevolence as cause for that which stupidity is sufficient to explain.
But I’m not really seeing the stupidity.
Maybe you’re simply kinder than I.
 
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You've stopped beating your wife, right? Your question assumes facts not in evidence. I don't recall ever seeing Emily deliberately misrepresent somebody else's position. Misunderstand one, certainly; we all do that from time to time. If your attacks on me weren't because I didn't "spew enough hate", well, that's how you came off to her. But since you think using strawmen is "a long and well recognized habit" of hers, you should have no trouble exhibiting a better example, which we can review together.
Here you go. Three strawmen all in one post by EL.

Why do you believe that Trump's view is representative of all conservatives?

What leads you to feel that the ads for a single specific candidate represent the views of all conservatives?

What mockery did Fox push that specified college educations? Why do you assume that infotainment has the beliefs of all conservatives nailed?
Why do you argue using strawmen?
Well that's silly, none of those are strawmen. It should be incredibly easy for you to respond to any of those questions with a genuine response that defuses the situation. But rather than simply say "Well, okay, Trump doesn't actually represent all conservatives, and likely doesn't even represent a majority of conservatives" you instead resort to pretending that they're strawmen.

The quotes by Emily were made in post #448. I clicked back and quickly concluded that it was EMILY who was attacking strawmen, and NOT endorsing or creating strawmen of her own.

Am I missing something? :confused2:
If not, I think some of you owe Ms. Lake an apology.
 
You've stopped beating your wife, right? Your question assumes facts not in evidence. I don't recall ever seeing Emily deliberately misrepresent somebody else's position. Misunderstand one, certainly; we all do that from time to time. If your attacks on me weren't because I didn't "spew enough hate", well, that's how you came off to her. But since you think using strawmen is "a long and well recognized habit" of hers, you should have no trouble exhibiting a better example, which we can review together.
Here you go. Three strawmen all in one post by EL.

Why do you believe that Trump's view is representative of all conservatives?

What leads you to feel that the ads for a single specific candidate represent the views of all conservatives?

What mockery did Fox push that specified college educations? Why do you assume that infotainment has the beliefs of all conservatives nailed?
Why do you argue using strawmen?
Well that's silly, none of those are strawmen. It should be incredibly easy for you to respond to any of those questions with a genuine response that defuses the situation. But rather than simply say "Well, okay, Trump doesn't actually represent all conservatives, and likely doesn't even represent a majority of conservatives" you instead resort to pretending that they're strawmen.

The quotes by Emily were made in post #448. I clicked back and quickly concluded that it was EMILY who was attacking strawmen, and NOT endorsing or creating strawmen of her own.

Am I missing something? :confused2:
If not, I think some of you owe Ms. Lake an apology.
Really?

all conservatives?

all conservatives?

all conservatives?
 
The quotes by Emily were made in post #448. I clicked back and quickly concluded that it was EMILY who was attacking strawmen, and NOT endorsing or creating strawmen of her own.

Am I missing something? :confused2:
If not, I think some of you owe Ms. Lake an apology.
Really?

all conservatives?

all conservatives?

all conservatives?

Complete sentences should be your friend!

And reread Emily's post. She was arguing AGAINST the "strawman" usage intrinsic to phrases like "all conservatives."
 
We're up to post #1355 and the complaints are about Emily's post #448. THAT post might have some context, but let's draw the line somewhere! Those complaining about Emily went back only 900+ posts to #448 in their quote pyramids and I fail to see any problem with #448.

I agree with Emily that the sport of impugning "conservatives" (with or without the "all") is overdone. Note that Trumpism has little to do with the "left-right divide." Dick and Liz Cheney reject Trumpism, while some Bernie Sanders supporters embraced it. Trumpism is a movement derived from (Palin-Bachmann-QAnon-Tea Party) "populism", stupidities, bigotries and propaganda from Putin and American billionaires.
 
Perhaps we should ask people here a question: please name one conservative who is not an asshole? It may not really clarify anything but I'd be interested in the answer.

I only say this because I made a post in Swammerdami's thread about the three most extraordinary... Humanity has ever produced. I posted, "the three most popular Black conservatives are...", and I left it blank. The only answer was one poster who wrote, "Assholes?". That seems to imply that if you're a conservative you're an asshole. And that answer does seem to comport with the general opinion around here. And that may be what Emily was trying to get at.
 
Perhaps we should ask people here a question: please name one conservative who is not an asshole? It may not really clarify anything but I'd be interested in the answer.

I only say this because I made a post in Swammerdami's thread about the three most extraordinary... Humanity has ever produced. I posted, "the three most popular Black conservatives are...", and I left it blank. The only answer was one poster who wrote, "Assholes?". That seems to imply that if you're a conservative you're an asshole. And that answer does seem to comport with the general opinion around here. And that may be what Emily was trying to get at.

It’s not an opinion, but rather an empirical observation.
 
Perhaps we should ask people here a question: please name one conservative who is not an asshole? It may not really clarify anything but I'd be interested in the answer.

I only say this because I made a post in Swammerdami's thread about the three most extraordinary... Humanity has ever produced. I posted, "the three most popular Black conservatives are...", and I left it blank. The only answer was one poster who wrote, "Assholes?". That seems to imply that if you're a conservative you're an asshole. And that answer does seem to comport with the general opinion around here. And that may be what Emily was trying to get at.

It’s not an opinion, but rather an empirical observation.
So, all conservatives are assholes?
 
Perhaps we should ask people here a question: please name one conservative who is not an asshole? It may not really clarify anything but I'd be interested in the answer.

I only say this because I made a post in Swammerdami's thread about the three most extraordinary... Humanity has ever produced. I posted, "the three most popular Black conservatives are...", and I left it blank. The only answer was one poster who wrote, "Assholes?". That seems to imply that if you're a conservative you're an asshole. And that answer does seem to comport with the general opinion around here. And that may be what Emily was trying to get at.

It’s not an opinion, but rather an empirical observation.
So, all conservatives are assholes?

Shoe, fits, and all that.

Still, I suppose it depends on what you mean by “conservative.” Are MAGGOTS really conservative, in the classical definition? For that matter, are modern liberals really liberal in the classical definition?
 
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