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Dem Post Mortem

Swammerdami said:
We're up to post #1355 and the complaints are about Emily's post #448. THAT post might have some context, but let's draw the line somewhere! Those complaining about Emily went back only 900+ posts to #448 in their quote pyramids and I fail to see any problem with #448.

I agree with Emily that the sport of impugning "conservatives" (with or without the "all") is overdone. Note that Trumpism has little to do with the "left-right divide." Dick and Liz Cheney reject Trumpism, while some Bernie Sanders supporters embraced it. Trumpism is a movement derived from (Palin-Bachmann-QAnon-Tea Party) "populism", stupidities, bigotries and propaganda from Putin and American billionaires.
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Impugning all ________ (fill in the blank with every type except Nazis and cannibals) is overdone.
 
WAB said:
pood said:
WAB said:
Perhaps we should ask people here a question: please name one conservative who is not an asshole? It may not really clarify anything but I'd be interested in the answer.

I only say this because I made a post in Swammerdami's thread about the three most extraordinary... Humanity has ever produced. I posted, "the three most popular Black conservatives are...", and I left it blank. The only answer was one poster who wrote, "Assholes?". That seems to imply that if you're a conservative you're an asshole. And that answer does seem to comport with the general opinion around here. And that may be what Emily was trying to get at.
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It’s not an opinion, but rather an empirical observation.
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So, all conservatives are assholes?
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Maybe it’s a statistical observation, like saying “men are taller than women”.
 
WAB said:
Perhaps we should ask people here a question: please name one conservative who is not an asshole? It may not really clarify anything but I'd be interested in the answer.
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This will be hard for me because I focus on trends rather than individuals. There are relatively few politicians about whom I have strong opinions; and many of those attracted my attention BECAUSE they seem like assholes! But here goes:

There were many moderate Republicans in the 20th century, and two female incumbent Senators who seem OK. But they probably don't qualify: They are considered NOT assholes because they are NOT right-wingers!

John McCain seemed like a GOOD person. Perhaps he wasn't as SMART as we'd hope for in a President, but he impressed me and many others as a good-spirited man. Both he and Mitt Romney, when running against Barack Obama, scolded their audiences for assholish behavior against Obama. (I'd better not put Romney forward as an example. Even if his politics were not assholish, there'd be plenty of other ways to criticize him.)

Many of those who detest abortion do so out of strong religious convictions. However WRONG or STUPID they may be, that doesn't make them "assholes." Hasn't abortion been considered criminal in most past societies? IIRC didn't one ancient society (Rome?) where abortion was legal also permit infanticide up to an age of majority?!?

John Kasich is a conservative who is not an asshole. He joined Ralph Nader in an effort to overturn corporate tax loopholes. Over time he changed his mind on several issues where he once took the right-wing position. Is Liz Cheney an asshole?

By default I view most right-wingers as assholes, but this is partly due to my own prejudice. Thinking of "conservatives" I've met in real life or interacted with on message-boards, many seem to be assholes, but many are just deluded ignoramuses rather than "assholes."

What do other Infidels think?
 
TSwizzle said:
oh good grief
So they decided to go with an old white guy.
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Thanks TSwizzle for getting back to the actual topic of this thread. The incessant sniping has gotten tiresome.

The DNC convention was a pretty weak effort to rebuild the party. The singing was embarrassing. Blaming sexism and racism for Kamala Harris' loss was pathetic. Electing the insufferable git David Hogg as vice-chair was inexplicable.
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Dems need to do better.
 
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Swammerdami said:
What do other Infidels think?
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I'm totally with you.
For most of my adult life I was extremely bipartisan. I cared far more about integrity and character than party.
That started changing during the late 90s. More and more I came to realize that the GOP were less about my country and more about their party and it's supporters. By 2010, I realized that the "Republicans" had been taken over by the super rich. The deep state.

The Teaparty.

After that I voted straight ticket Democrat. Not because I was particularly approved of their proposals, generally. But because the Democrats are obviously the party of the people. They are not the party of obstruction.
Tom
 
laughing dog said:
Swammerdami said:
We're up to post #1355 and the complaints are about Emily's post #448. THAT post might have some context, but let's draw the line somewhere! Those complaining about Emily went back only 900+ posts to #448 in their quote pyramids and I fail to see any problem with #448.

I agree with Emily that the sport of impugning "conservatives" (with or without the "all") is overdone. Note that Trumpism has little to do with the "left-right divide." Dick and Liz Cheney reject Trumpism, while some Bernie Sanders supporters embraced it. Trumpism is a movement derived from (Palin-Bachmann-QAnon-Tea Party) "populism", stupidities, bigotries and propaganda from Putin and American billionaires.
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Impugning all ________ (fill in the blank with every type except Nazis and cannibals) is overdone.
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The problem here is that the conservatives from about a decade ago are all indistinguishable from the Nazis today

I think we should recognize and call a spade a spade.

I expected that this was going to be the case over a decade ago, connecting the dots between the behaviors I see in society and the cycles of moral panic and the involvement of moral panic in the Nazi regime.

We have had plenty of people through here who plenty of people called out, and lookie lookie who is doing the *goose step* falling in behind the regime these days!

It is just so disappointing...

Like, we all saw it coming and it came anyway. No wonder ancient people believed in fate.
 
Jarhyn said:
We have had plenty of people through here who plenty of people called out, and lookie lookie who is doing the *goose step* falling in behind the regime these days!

It is just so disappointing...

Like, we all saw it coming and it came anyway. No wonder ancient people believed in fate.
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Someone (I don't remember who) said MAGAts will shit their pants just so liberals can small it.
 
ZiprHead said:
Jarhyn said:
We have had plenty of people through here who plenty of people called out, and lookie lookie who is doing the *goose step* falling in behind the regime these days!

It is just so disappointing...

Like, we all saw it coming and it came anyway. No wonder ancient people believed in fate.
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Someone (I don't remember who) said MAGAts will shit their pants just so liberals can small it.
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I believe that was formally demonstrated to be true on Jan 6, 2021
 
Swammerdami said:
WAB said:
Perhaps we should ask people here a question: please name one conservative who is not an asshole? It may not really clarify anything but I'd be interested in the answer.
Click to expand...

This will be hard for me because I focus on trends rather than individuals. There are relatively few politicians about whom I have strong opinions; and many of those attracted my attention BECAUSE they seem like assholes! But here goes:

There were many moderate Republicans in the 20th century, and two female incumbent Senators who seem OK. But they probably don't qualify: They are considered NOT assholes because they are NOT right-wingers!

John McCain seemed like a GOOD person. Perhaps he wasn't as SMART as we'd hope for in a President, but he impressed me and many others as a good-spirited man. Both he and Mitt Romney, when running against Barack Obama, scolded their audiences for assholish behavior against Obama. (I'd better not put Romney forward as an example. Even if his politics were not assholish, there'd be plenty of other ways to criticize him.)

Many of those who detest abortion do so out of strong religious convictions. However WRONG or STUPID they may be, that doesn't make them "assholes." Hasn't abortion been considered criminal in most past societies? IIRC didn't one ancient society (Rome?) where abortion was legal also permit infanticide up to an age of majority?!?

John Kasich is a conservative who is not an asshole. He joined Ralph Nader in an effort to overturn corporate tax loopholes. Over time he changed his mind on several issues where he once took the right-wing position. Is Liz Cheney an asshole?

By default I view most right-wingers as assholes, but this is partly due to my own prejudice. Thinking of "conservatives" I've met in real life or interacted with on message-boards, many seem to be assholes, but many are just deluded ignoramuses rather than "assholes."

What do other Infidels think?
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Strange. All three are no longer welcome in the conservative club.
 
So instead of talking about the Democratic Party, this thread had degenerated into talking about MAGAs shitting their pants. Sigh.
 
Swammerdami said:
WAB said:
Perhaps we should ask people here a question: please name one conservative who is not an asshole? It may not really clarify anything but I'd be interested in the answer.
Click to expand...

This will be hard for me because I focus on trends rather than individuals. There are relatively few politicians about whom I have strong opinions; and many of those attracted my attention BECAUSE they seem like assholes! But here goes:

There were many moderate Republicans in the 20th century, and two female incumbent Senators who seem OK. But they probably don't qualify: They are considered NOT assholes because they are NOT right-wingers!

John McCain seemed like a GOOD person. Perhaps he wasn't as SMART as we'd hope for in a President, but he impressed me and many others as a good-spirited man. Both he and Mitt Romney, when running against Barack Obama, scolded their audiences for assholish behavior against Obama. (I'd better not put Romney forward as an example. Even if his politics were not assholish, there'd be plenty of other ways to criticize him.)

Many of those who detest abortion do so out of strong religious convictions. However WRONG or STUPID they may be, that doesn't make them "assholes." Hasn't abortion been considered criminal in most past societies? IIRC didn't one ancient society (Rome?) where abortion was legal also permit infanticide up to an age of majority?!?

John Kasich is a conservative who is not an asshole. He joined Ralph Nader in an effort to overturn corporate tax loopholes. Over time he changed his mind on several issues where he once took the right-wing position. Is Liz Cheney an asshole?

By default I view most right-wingers as assholes, but this is partly due to my own prejudice. Thinking of "conservatives" I've met in real life or interacted with on message-boards, many seem to be assholes, but many are just deluded ignoramuses rather than "assholes."

What do other Infidels think?
Click to expand...

I think that all of the people you listed are assholes. The problem is that since Donald Trump came onto the scene, we lowered the bar of expectations. Someone like John McCain singing "bomb bomb bomb Iran" suddenly became a hero because Trump criticized his military service and McCain stood up to him one time. Even if an asshole redeems themselves or there is a greater asshole, it doesn't mean they're not a smallish asshole. It's also probably true that many Democratic politicians are assholes, too, once we remove the relative bias we make because of Trump. Ralph Nader who is right about things the vast majority of the time is also an asshole. He's a bit of a detached wonkish narcissist, smallish narcissist. Trump is orders of magnitude more of a narcissist and a psychopath so it becomes difficult to get through the barrier of analyzing things.

For the record, I'm an asshole, too. :D
 
Derec said:
So instead of talking about the Democratic Party, this thread had degenerated into talking about MAGAs shitting their pants. Sigh.
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WRONG. The thread isn't a safe space for everyone to go on ad infinitum about the Democratic Party. It has a scope and that scope was modified by you and others to attack Democrats. It was about the narrow issue of what happened with the election. The answer was the economy or perceptions thereof. Even the issue of immigration was largely about the economy. People having been using the election loss to proclaim that anything somewhat ideologically related to the DP platform should be rejected, even though Harris lost due to association with the administration and the economy. They use it for pushing their own agendas and then to criticize Democrats. Of course it is natural to respond, but the scope of the thread is not what you stated at all. It's been done and over for a long, long time.
 
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