How should west respond to Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[steve_bank]

One of Putin's rationalizations was that the security and independence agreement was made with a different government in Ukraine, o it does not apply.

Another was that Ukraine as a state, culture, people, and language never really existed.

 

[ZiprHead]

Putin is losing it.

Miles long lines of people waiting to get fuel. 81% of Russians want the war over. While soldiers are paid quite well compared to regular Russian citizens, they last about ten days after being sent to the front so they never really get that pay.

 

[ZiprHead]

81% of Russians Back Ending Ukraine War as Support for ‘Victory’ Drops to Record-Low 9%

New poll shows 81% of Russians want the Ukraine war to end, while support for “victory until the end” falls to just 9%.

www.kyivpost.com

A record 81% of Russians would support ending the war in Ukraine as early as tomorrow, according to a new survey by the Kyiv-based Institute of Conflictology and Analysis of Russia (IKAR).

The telephone poll of 1,600 respondents, conducted between May 11 and 26, found support for an immediate end to the war has reached its highest level since 2022, up from 72-75% in previous years.

Support for fighting “until complete victory” has meanwhile fallen to just 9%, the lowest level recorded.

The war has also overtaken economic concerns as Russians’ biggest issue, with 33% identifying it as the country’s main problem, ahead of low wages (24%) and rising prices (18%).

 

[Elixir]

OTOH, if the ration is only a few liters…

 

[ZiprHead]

Indicators

www.levada.ru

 

[Tigers!]

Utter Bullshit! It was neither legal nor was it Ukraine.

Can you cite the law that was broken?

The law that Barbos and Putin believe that any land once controlled by Russia is always controlled by Russia.

Probably Peter or Catherine the Great promulgated that rule and mindset

 

[Tigers!]

Barbos is such a potty mouth.

Are all Russians this crude, unsophisticated, and uncivilized?

Only the ones allowed on the internet.

 

[Tigers!]

You all suck, all you do is repeating garbage you put in your head watching Holywood fantasy garbage in the 80s.

You really need a cup of tea, a Bex's and a good lie down.

 

[Tigers!]

Utter Bullshit! It was neither legal nor was it Ukraine.

Can you cite the law that was broken?

The law that Barbos and Putin believe that any land once controlled once walked on by Russia is always controlled by Russia.

FIFY

 

[bilby]

I hear that Russians are blaming the fuel shortages on government corruption.

They don't know about the attacks on the refineries, so they can't understand how fuel is so scarce, and suspect that corrupt officials are holding it back to sell at inflated prices on the black market.

 

[ZiprHead]

I hear that Russians are blaming the fuel shortages on government corruption.

They don't know about the attacks on the refineries, so they can't understand how fuel is so scarce, and suspect that corrupt officials are holding it back to sell at inflated prices on the black market.

I've heard they are prioritizing farmers for fuel. But the farmers are selling it on the black market instead of using it to raise crops, which will soon lead to food shortages.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Speaking of lying. It was determined that ukro-regime in its recent drone attacks on Moscow used drones armed with ...... extra fuel. Fucking clowns know damn well that damage they cause is pretty inconsequential, but if they load it with fuel, resulting propaganda footage looks much better.

Long range drones have fuel. And any weapon that burns fuel as it goes but doesn't go to it's maximum range will have leftover fuel when it hits. The reality is explosives tend to not look like very much when they go boom, but fuel does. Hollywood "bombs" are a little bit of explosive and a lot of gasoline. Thus I would expect the biggest visible effect from a drone being the remaining fuel going up. (Assuming it doesn't hit something that itself goes up.)

You don't listen, do you?
Your nazis literally loaded their droned with fuel in order to create illusion of a bigger explosion.

Read what I said!

Of course the most visible effect of shooting down a drone is the fuel going up.

What I'm asking is why would you expect any other outcome from hitting a liquid-fueled aircraft?

You don't listen, do you?

You asserted there was extra fuel to make a bigger boom when shot down. You never responded to my point that the main effect you would see from one being shot down is the fuel going up. You are providing no evidence that it's more than the standard load for the drone.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Your argument applies to airplanes. They can trade range for payload.

Cruise missiles can't realistically make such tradeoffs, although you see missiles that have a sprint mode, use an afterburner for the last part of the flight if the fuel supply permits.

Cruise missiles absolutely make such trade-off. Depending on the required range they can and do have different explosive payload. This is done on the factory of course. But in case of ukro-terrorist drones these are home made planes, where you can load anything and anyhow you want with ease.

Ballistic missiles, yes. Cruise missiles, no--the extra range you would get is tiny. What you do see is multiple warhead types of the same weight. Or omitting a seeker in exchange for a bigger boom. (For example, land attack version of the Harpoon.)

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I hear that the fuel shortages have led to the Russian government providing emergency fuel supplies to farmers, so they can bring in the harvest.

The same shortage means that the farmers can make more money selling the fuel on the black market than they would get for their crops if they used it to harvest them.

So the grain rots in the fields, the black marketeers get rich, and the diesel shortage continues.

It's going to be a cold and hungry winter for Russia.

Hopefully Putin read the ending of Red Storm Rising. And he should know how decrepit his military is compared to the west by now. Yeah, the battle of 73 Easting was against export T-72s, but your version isn't that much better.

(Note that Wikipedia shows the overall engagement. In the key battle the US force was considerably smaller than the Iraqi but destroyed more than twice as many tanks as they brought to the battle--for zero US losses.)

 

[steve_bank]

I'll include some American vodka.

Don't care for vodka american or russian.

You can send potatoes now. And grechka too.

Sorry, apparently we can not ship fresh potatoes to Russia.

You can try boiling your leather shoes if you are huggry.

 

[Harry Bosch]

I hear that the fuel shortages have led to the Russian government providing emergency fuel supplies to farmers, so they can bring in the harvest.

The same shortage means that the farmers can make more money selling the fuel on the black market than they would get for their crops if they used it to harvest them.

So the grain rots in the fields, the black marketeers get rich, and the diesel shortage continues.

It's going to be a cold and hungry winter for Russia.

Hopefully Putin read the ending of Red Storm Rising. And he should know how decrepit his military is compared to the west by now. Yeah, the battle of 73 Easting was against export T-72s, but your version isn't that much better.

(Note that Wikipedia shows the overall engagement. In the key battle the US force was considerably smaller than the Iraqi but destroyed more than twice as many tanks as they brought to the battle--for zero US losses.)

Great book. I'm sure that it's required reading for all young Russian lads!

 

[steve_bank]

Today the plot for the book does not seem all that far fetched. Terrorists destoy Russian oil infrastructure as I remember it.

Barbos

While we have problems now s with affordability and wealth inquiries, one thing we and Canada and western Europe has had is plenty of good food.

Despite the Soviet and Chinese communist claims of a better alternate nether ever provided basic necessitates. Famines killed many. It was not until the mid 90s that China recovered from Maoism.

Despite the conflict we have with China, I think they did a remarkable job recovering from Maoist ideology and building China into a modern prosperous nation.

China pragmatically integrated its economy with the west and bright in investment.

Along comes Putin with the same Soviet mind set and gets the same results. A Russia in decline.

All Putin can do now is lash out and hurt people. Blame the USA and Europe.

Same as Trump does.

 

[TV and credit cards]

So after the NATO meeting in Türkiye, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan gives everyone a parting gift, a handgun and ammunition. The article in Reuters runs through the various responses. Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney said and I’m paraphrasing, all I got him was maple syrup.
https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/turkeys-erdogan-gives-nato-leaders-revolver-conundrum-after-summit-2026-07-09/

 

[Bronzeage]

So after the NATO meeting in Türkiye, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan gives everyone a parting gift, a handgun and ammunition. The article in Reuters runs through the various responses. Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney said and I’m paraphrasing, all I got him was maple syrup.
https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/turkeys-erdogan-gives-nato-leaders-revolver-conundrum-after-summit-2026-07-09/

I'm trying to see the downside of Trump having a loaded pistol and so far, I don't see it.

 

[TV and credit cards]

So after the NATO meeting in Türkiye, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan gives everyone a parting gift, a handgun and ammunition. The article in Reuters runs through the various responses. Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney said and I’m paraphrasing, all I got him was maple syrup.
https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/turkeys-erdogan-gives-nato-leaders-revolver-conundrum-after-summit-2026-07-09/

I'm trying to see the downside of Trump having a loaded pistol and so far, I don't see it.

I think I know why they had to switch planes now.