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Trumpists Are Suffering the Free Market Consequences Of Being Deplorable

One thing you don't do is hit them as punishment.

But bringing in children is a way to cloud the issue.

It never clarifies issues among adults.

The ONLY push-back against uncivil behavior is uncivil behavior.

Gandhi might disagree.

Gandhi also said that in the lead up to the Holocaust, Jews should have started killing themselves. So every time a member of the Trump administration comes into a restaurant, the owners should throw themselves off a cliff. Or just Mexicans?
 
I've been thinking about this thread for a few days now, analyzing it, considering and reconsidering. What is it we're talking about that some are perceiving as wrong here? Is it the maligning of people in the public sphere? Is that it?

Mike Huckabee, super Christian recently tweeted this. There's another thread on the board here where someone asks about the incredible vitriol given Obama by Conservatives. There's FOX news. There's political AM radio. There's the protestant, evangelical religious right, from mega-churches to little Pentecostal sects all over the country. There's plenty of more examples on a website like http://www.religiousrightwatch.com/ and many, many other examples one can find quite easily. These are not mere political spin where one tries to stretch the truth, view supported policies in the most positive light possible, and cast your political opponent as supporting the wrong path for America. This is character assassination. It's actual real dangerous propaganda. It's outright lies made up out of whole cloth. It's overt fear mongering and playing to bigotry and prejudice, not just with dog whistles, but a megaphone. Folks, I got to tell ya, this is some scary shit, and it's working. Look where we as a country are at right now? The Conservatives as a movement is a Trump party now. Their identity politics has advanced to a point where their policy decisions are really only based on one over arching principle: what will upset liberals. Not only does this movement occupy all the federal levers of power, but most state legislatures as well, and many of those are even more polarized than the national political spectrum.

In a way, this reminds me of the concept of pacifism. Never use violence. Ever. Do not give in on your own principles. It sounds good. It sounds noble. It sounds right. It also doesn't work in the real world. It also reminds me of the evolution vs. creationism debate. One side has facts and nuance on their side, and it's the side that is correct. But it requires a deeper understanding. It requires effort, and it's not intuitive to most people. The other side is bumper sticker-type slogans, easy, direct, and aligns with human prejudices quite well. Quicker, easier, more seductive (sorry, I couldn't resist a nerd moment).

I'm not saying we should adopt those techniques. Those techniques indeed lead down the dark path, because Conservatives had to manipulate and groom their constituents for quite some time before Trump came along and used those very same techniques to paralyze the GOP and bend it to his will. There is a difference between the two though. One is dishonest. It lies about the motivations and character of their opponents simply for being opponents, the other is using public shame, not shaming them for being conservative, shaming them for the policies they have enacted that are indeed worthy of that very shame. It's not McCain that cannot eat in a restaurant because of liberals, but he is being attacked by his own party in a shameful manner. It's not never Trumpers. It's not Jeff Flake. It's Trump administration members that share some responsibility for some awful bigoted policies being instituted by our government. It's not for being Conservative, it's for being bigoted. They are overtly harming people that are very vulnerable in our society. Homosexuals, transsexuals, refugees, children.

The reason for the polarization isn't shared equally by both sides. Sure, there are some factors that contribute to the vitriol on both sides, but both parties had more of a shared set of beliefs and a foundation that encouraged bipartisanship. They disagreed on the path to take for the country, but both had at least a shared type of vision of what they wanted for our nation. Now, one of those parties has been all but replaced by religious white nationalists that want exceptional special treatment for Christians and for people that are white. The fear has been stoked for so long by Conservatives about being replaced and losing their special place in our society that now, that is all the core of the party will respond to. Combine this with a lack motivation to vote by most people, and this vocal minority is now all but running the country even though they are outnumbered. Getting them out will be tough, because they've cemented their place with gerrymandering, and causing fundamental change within one of the parties to overcome their own bigotry will not be easy.
 
What if doctors behaved like this?

The surgeon called in to do emergency surgery to stop the bleeding.

Sorry, won't do it for a Trump supporter.

Trump has taken things into the gutter. He has taken many with him.

You can join them or be better than them.

So it's ok to refuse service for being born gay, but it's not ok to refuse service for choosing to be a fascist?

How does the logic of that argument even work?
 
I've been thinking about this thread for a few days now, analyzing it, considering and reconsidering. What is it we're talking about that some are perceiving as wrong here? Is it the maligning of people in the public sphere? Is that it?

Mike Huckabee, super Christian recently tweeted this. There's another thread on the board here where someone asks about the incredible vitriol given Obama by Conservatives. There's FOX news. There's political AM radio. There's the protestant, evangelical religious right, from mega-churches to little Pentecostal sects all over the country. There's plenty of more examples on a website like http://www.religiousrightwatch.com/ and many, many other examples one can find quite easily. These are not mere political spin where one tries to stretch the truth, view supported policies in the most positive light possible, and cast your political opponent as supporting the wrong path for America. This is character assassination. It's actual real dangerous propaganda. It's outright lies made up out of whole cloth. It's overt fear mongering and playing to bigotry and prejudice, not just with dog whistles, but a megaphone. Folks, I got to tell ya, this is some scary shit, and it's working. Look where we as a country are at right now? The Conservatives as a movement is a Trump party now. Their identity politics has advanced to a point where their policy decisions are really only based on one over arching principle: what will upset liberals. Not only does this movement occupy all the federal levers of power, but most state legislatures as well, and many of those are even more polarized than the national political spectrum.

In a way, this reminds me of the concept of pacifism. Never use violence. Ever. Do not give in on your own principles. It sounds good. It sounds noble. It sounds right. It also doesn't work in the real world. It also reminds me of the evolution vs. creationism debate. One side has facts and nuance on their side, and it's the side that is correct. But it requires a deeper understanding. It requires effort, and it's not intuitive to most people. The other side is bumper sticker-type slogans, easy, direct, and aligns with human prejudices quite well. Quicker, easier, more seductive (sorry, I couldn't resist a nerd moment).

I'm not saying we should adopt those techniques. Those techniques indeed lead down the dark path, because Conservatives had to manipulate and groom their constituents for quite some time before Trump came along and used those very same techniques to paralyze the GOP and bend it to his will. There is a difference between the two though. One is dishonest. It lies about the motivations and character of their opponents simply for being opponents, the other is using public shame, not shaming them for being conservative, shaming them for the policies they have enacted that are indeed worthy of that very shame. It's not McCain that cannot eat in a restaurant because of liberals, but he is being attacked by his own party in a shameful manner. It's not never Trumpers. It's not Jeff Flake. It's Trump administration members that share some responsibility for some awful bigoted policies being instituted by our government. It's not for being Conservative, it's for being bigoted. They are overtly harming people that are very vulnerable in our society. Homosexuals, transsexuals, refugees, children.

The reason for the polarization isn't shared equally by both sides. Sure, there are some factors that contribute to the vitriol on both sides, but both parties had more of a shared set of beliefs and a foundation that encouraged bipartisanship. They disagreed on the path to take for the country, but both had at least a shared type of vision of what they wanted for our nation. Now, one of those parties has been all but replaced by religious white nationalists that want exceptional special treatment for Christians and for people that are white. The fear has been stoked for so long by Conservatives about being replaced and losing their special place in our society that now, that is all the core of the party will respond to. Combine this with a lack motivation to vote by most people, and this vocal minority is now all but running the country even though they are outnumbered. Getting them out will be tough, because they've cemented their place with gerrymandering, and causing fundamental change within one of the parties to overcome their own bigotry will not be easy.

Republicans have always been fascists.

The difference is that under Trump, they don't have to hide it anymore. That's why Republicans cheered and celebrated when Trump announced that political correctness was dead. They were looking forward to exactly this.
 
So it's ok to refuse service for being born gay, but it's not ok to refuse service for choosing to be a fascist?
The GOP has been working SO hard to normalize this exact behavior... Someone does, or IS, something that offends you, drive them away. Deny service.

Sad that they don't see it as them 'winning,' claiming a victory in promoting the idea that we can pick and choose who to serve at a private business. SHS should be pumping a fist. This is the America this administration has been working for. Or almost. She's not being kicked out for anything except choices she's made and actions she's taken.

So, ALMOST the utopia...
 
I thought progressives and democrats were supposed to be the party of tolerance?

Well I guess not in this case.

They appear only accepting of views similar to their own apparently.

Mrs. Sanders and the people she represent have made it abundantly clear that they believe that any business anywhere should be able to refuse to do business with anyone for any reason up to and including their general dismissal of the "Public Accommodation" rule in the 1964 Civil Rights Act.

Not sure anyone on that side can disagree with a business refusing to serve her except in trying to flip the script and play the martyr.

I don't want to see this harassment expand though. It is bad for optics and largely plays into the hands of the fascist tariff hoisting labor supply restricting propagandists.

They have been practicing for this for years with their double speak institutions like their Christian Dominionist legal advocacy groups with freedomy sounding names. They've gotten quite good at packaging things like dominionist policy advocacy in freedom wrappers.
 
It should be noted that the whole “turn the other cheek” nonsense was born out of a cult figurehead that likely never existed (or at least certainly not as depicted). When you strip away the bullshit spirituality angle to such things as the Sermon on the Mount and/or many of the sayings attributed to Jesus (“render unto Caesar;” don’t go to court; rejoice in your suffering since it means you’re blessed; etc), they are all instructions to obey authority and to literally go out of your way to never rock the boat or change your station in life. It is only the meek who inherit the earth.

Iow, it’s a cult designed to maintain a slave’s low position and never rise above it, because that happens after you die, not before.

As I pointed out previously, the true hypocrisy lies in the fact that Republicans/fascists never practice what they preach. They are the ones who write “Work Shall Set You Free” above death camps—or “I don’t really care” on their clothing ffs, before meeting terrified children torn from their families over a misdemeanor—and will lie directly to their own constituents about how they would never ever fuck them in the ass right as they are fucking them in the ass.

They believe themselves to be above any law and whenever anyone they consider beneath them steps outside of their station, suddenly these privileged assholes are the righteously indignant. Sanders, as many have illustrated, is a perfect example of that. She constantly defends bullying and bigotry, but the second she is refused service for her actions, it becomes an affront to common decency and all that is holy for anyone that would dare transgress against her.

But such two-faced false piety is easily discernible. The problem isn’t recognizing the bullshit; the problem is the bullied are operantly conditioned to cowar when bullied, so when some watershed moment like this happens, too many of us whimper back into place and do their master’s bidding.
 
Here’s the thing. Only Republicans are allowed to be bullies. Democrats are the bullied. Think back to high school. I would bet even money that anyone from your high school that was a bully then is a Republican now and anyone that was bullied then is a Democrat now. Some may have crossed over; the bullied growing up refusing to be bullied and what are they now? Republicans.

Koy, I think you may be the most hyper-partisan person I've ever interacted with.
 
There are no other nations, no amount of international shame that would stop Trump types from rounding up their enemies and killing them if they could. These people live in a different reality. The violent fringes of the right wing have become enmeshed with the mainstream, and the mainstream has moved farther to the right in order to meet the fringes.

At this point, I'm pretty sure certain members of my own family would report me if it meant I could be taken away for being anti-Trump. I think that's what we're flirting with right now.
I think you need to spend less time on the internet.
 
Here’s the thing. Only Republicans are allowed to be bullies. Democrats are the bullied. Think back to high school. I would bet even money that anyone from your high school that was a bully then is a Republican now and anyone that was bullied then is a Democrat now. Some may have crossed over; the bullied growing up refusing to be bullied and what are they now? Republicans.

Koy, I think you may be the most hyper-partisan person I've ever interacted with.

I’ve seen it all from the inside, so, ironically, I’m not at all partisan. “Partisan” is a word for the pleebs. When you’re inside politics, it’s not a matter of “Republican” or “Democrat” or any of that; it’s a matter of how deep into the corruption are you willing to go?

Republicans (those in power) are the deep-water scary fish with freakish teeth and gaping, always open maws; the bottom feeders that are really just there as errand boys to the truly rich and powerful.

Democrats are toe’s-in-the-water corrupt (sometimes a foot), with most dipping in just enough—becuase they have no choice—in order to stay in power and still hopefully get something positive done as a redemptive measure for all that it takes to work in such muck.

There is no such thing as “party” in America. There are those out to screw everyone and the rest of us trying to stop them from screwing everyone. Iow, the bullies and the bullied.
 
You just falsely equated lying in aid of a fascist state with refusing restaurant service to an individual because they lie in aid of a fascist state.

Are you aware that we don't actually live in a fascist state? Hyperbole for emotional impact does not make fact.
 
You just falsely equated lying in aid of a fascist state with refusing restaurant service to an individual because they lie in aid of a fascist state.

Are you aware that we don't actually live in a fascist state?

I said in aid of a fascist state.

Hyperbole for emotional impact does not make fact.

And basic reading comprehension skills help to avoid committing fallacies.
 
You just falsely equated lying in aid of a fascist state with refusing restaurant service to an individual because they lie in aid of a fascist state.

Are you aware that we don't actually live in a fascist state? Hyperbole for emotional impact does not make fact.

It's getting there fast. At what point do you think it's ok to start criticizing it?
 
What if doctors behaved like this?

The surgeon called in to do emergency surgery to stop the bleeding.

Sorry, won't do it for a Trump supporter.

Trump has taken things into the gutter. He has taken many with him.

You can join them or be better than them.

So it's ok to refuse service for being born gay, but it's not ok to refuse service for choosing to be a fascist?

How does the logic of that argument even work?

I challenge you to bring up a single instance where untermensche said it was OK to refuse service for being gay. Even a single time.
 
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