Black Jogger Gunned Down In The Street

[T.G.G. Moogly]

The dashcam video certainly makes the report of a struggle for the shotgun seem likely, although it doesn't seem conclusive to me.

You go after somebody's gun, expect to be shot!

Arbrey did not go after the gun, the gun went after him. He defended himself against a deadly weapon just as you or I might have. If a black man attempts to level a gun at you and it is within your reach to stop that action, would that not be your reaction?

The guy made a good decision but he's dead. Had he just stood there he obviously thought he'd be killed so his thoughts were to defend himself and possibly save his own life. That makes the most sense.

 

[J842P]

You mean when they called 911 to report the criminal and then couldn't actually indicate how they knew he was a criminal? Then they grabbed their guns and coordinated with a third person to shoot video of the whole thing? I mean, that does provide some context here.

it's impossible to determine just from the scene we saw.

It didn't stop you from coming up with all sorts of conclusions on how you know they were defending themselves and murdered the jogger, I mean killed the guy who tried to defend himself... I mean, the guy who ran at the poor defense armed people that followed him and we trying to apprehend him illegally. You know, I just can't spin this in a way where these assholes aren't liable for manslaughter (possibly premeditated murder).

I agree in part. I don’t think there is any evidence of premeditated murder. They went after him with the intent to effectuate a citizens arrest of a burglary suspect, not simply to kill him. But they had no right to do so as they had not witnessed a burglary. In doing so they put themselves in the untenable position of having to act in self defense. But you can’t get away with self defense if you illegally caused the problem in the first place. Therefore it is manslaughter. Had they actually witnessed a felony, they might have had a good self defense argument.

One other point that’s unclear is whether both shot at him or only the guy with the rifle? If the guy on the truck also didn’t fire, I’m not sure if he can be charged with anything.

I’d be curious to know when the cops got this video. If back in February why only now are they issuing indictments?

This whole thing is so stupidly stunning. It’s part of the sick gun culture we have, where everyone thinks they’re going to star in their own episode of Real Police Chases and end up the hero. Let the fucking professionals do their fucking job you morons!

That being said, the victim wasn’t too bright here. He too could’ve waited for the professionals to do their job and not attacked people who were pointing guns at him. He may have just panicked which is understandable. Of course being stupid shouldn’t really carry the death penalty.

Still, if I were a betting man, I’d say they’ll likely be acquitted. Maybe a hung jury.

SLD

They are being charged with felony murder, because someone died in the commission of a crime (aggravated assault).

 

[Tigers!]

Sitting in Australia and knowing that such incidents appear far too many times I am still aghast and ask the questions out loud.

Why do you Americans hate each other so much?
Why is your first recourse always seemingly a gun?

 

[Elixir]

Sitting in Australia and knowing that such incidents appear far too many times I am still aghast and ask the questions out loud.

Why do you Americans hate each other so much?
Why is your first recourse seemingly a gun?

"Only" 30% of Americans say they own guns. And not all of those hate others so much.
Many Americans, including a lot of that 30% have ingested the Putin fear pills that our President, in his unmatched wisdom, has eagerly welcomed into what used to be our culture.

 

[Tigers!]

Sitting in Australia and knowing that such incidents appear far too many times I am still aghast and ask the questions out loud.

Why do you Americans hate each other so much?
Why is your first recourse seemingly a gun?

"Only" 30% of Americans say they own guns. And not all of those hate others so much.
Many Americans, including a lot of that 30% have ingested the Putin fear pills that our President, in his unmatched wisdom, has eagerly welcomed into what used to be our culture.

too many guns in the hands of idiots and too easy to get.

 

[repoman]

So he did go into the under construction house and spent about three minutes in it.

 

[Derec]

So apparently Arbery and the elder McMichael had history. I wonder if Arbery recognized McMichael as the man who investigated him 6 or 7 years ago.
A suspect in the killing of Ahmaud Arbery was involved in a previous investigation of him, recused prosecutor says

In an April 7 letter, Waycross Judicial Circuit District Attorney George Barnhill wrote that his son and the suspect, Gregory McMichael, helped with an earlier prosecution of Arbery when they both worked for the Brunswick Judicial Circuit District Attorney's Office.[...]
The Brunswick News has reported Arbery was indicted for allegedly bringing a gun to a 2013 high school basketball game when he was 19.

 

[Derec]

So he did go into the under construction house and spent about three minutes in it.

He might have also been the man who entered the same house on previous occasions and stolen fishing tackle.

The owner of a home under construction near the scene of Arbery's February 23 shooting, listed as a victim in the police report, said his surveillance system captured a man who appeared to be Arbery "coming onto his property" on that day.
The homeowner, who declined to share the clips with CNN, said there were previous videos on other occasions showing a man entering the property and stealing fishing tackle but he could not identify the man and he did not file a police report.

Given Arbery's history of theft, that is quite likely I would say.

 

[Elixir]

So he did go into the under construction house and spent about three minutes in it.

He might have also been the man who entered the same house on previous occasions and stolen fishing tackle.

Given Arbery's history of theft, that is quite likely I would say.

When was the last time a white person - petty thief or otherwise - was hunted down and killed by a posse of black people, in broad daylight and on clear video, and no charges were brought against the murderers?
Given some people's excuses for declining to make an arrest in an obviously premeditated homicide, you'd think that it was a normal thing in Georgia to go hunting petty thieves for sport. That's some real "Deliverance" shit right there.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

So he did go into the under construction house and spent about three minutes in it.

He might have also been the man who entered the same house on previous occasions and stolen fishing tackle.

Given Arbery's history of theft, that is quite likely I would say.

When was the last time a white person - petty thief or otherwise - was hunted down and killed by a posse of black people, in broad daylight and on clear video, and no charges were brought against the murderers?
Given some people's excuses for declining to make an arrest in an obviously premeditated homicide, you'd think that it was a normal thing in Georgia to go hunting petty thieves for sport. That's some real "Deliverance" shit right there.

This behavior among white southerners - hillbillies, rednecks and racists - has been selected for over quite a few generations. It should not surprise anyone.

 

[laughing dog]

So he did go into the under construction house and spent about three minutes in it.

He might have also been the man who entered the same house on previous occasions and stolen fishing tackle.

The owner of a home under construction near the scene of Arbery's February 23 shooting, listed as a victim in the police report, said his surveillance system captured a man who appeared to be Arbery "coming onto his property" on that day.
The homeowner, who declined to share the clips with CNN, said there were previous videos on other occasions showing a man entering the property and stealing fishing tackle but he could not identify the man and he did not file a police report.

Given Arbery's history of theft, that is quite likely I would say.

That is simply irrational, given Arbery's "history of theft" is one arrest for shoplifting. And it in no rational way is an excuse for the behavior of those killers.

 

[Ford]

He might have also been the man who entered the same house on previous occasions and stolen fishing tackle.


Given Arbery's history of theft, that is quite likely I would say.

That is simply irrational, given Arbery's "history of theft" is one arrest for shoplifting. And it in no rational way is an excuse for the behavior of those killers.

Ah, but you see, in Derec's mind, the average gun-toting vigilante can simply look at a black man walking or jogging down the street and know their entire criminal history.

"Hey Jim-Bob, you see that Negro jogging?"

"Yeah, what do you know about him?"

"Well several years ago he was accused of shoplifting."

"Holy shit, we got ourselves a gin you wine dangerous thug right here in front of us! What should we do? Call the cops?"

"Ah hell no Jim-Bob. We're more than equipped to handling this dangerous Negro. Pull your sidearm out of your waistband."


Seriously. Derec apparently believes that the entire criminal history of any black man is displayed in the mind of a redneck vigilante like a mental spreadsheet so that they can later justify gunning the "thug" down in cold blood.

 

[Arctish]

So he did go into the under construction house and spent about three minutes in it.

He might have also been the man who entered the same house on previous occasions and stolen fishing tackle.

Or he might not have been. It might have been Travis McMichael who stole the fishing tackle. Or it might have been the neighbor who videotaped the killing. Or it might have been one of the neighborhood kids. Or it might have been a total stranger.

The owner of a home under construction near the scene of Arbery's February 23 shooting, listed as a victim in the police report, said his surveillance system captured a man who appeared to be Arbery "coming onto his property" on that day.
The homeowner, who declined to share the clips with CNN, said there were previous videos on other occasions showing a man entering the property and stealing fishing tackle but he could not identify the man and he did not file a police report.

Given Arbery's history of theft, that is quite likely I would say.

You have not established a history of theft.

I see reports that he was investigated on a shoplifting charge, not that he pled guilty or was found guilty at trial. Were charges brought? I'm not finding the anything about the evidence, either. How solid was the lead McMichael was following that led him to Arbery?

I think we need more information before we start reaching conclusions on the matter of shoplifting and stealing fishing tackle.

Keep in mind, even if we can reasonably conclude that Arbery had stolen things in the past (we are nowhere near that point), he didn't do it on the day he was killed so it can't be used to justify the McMichaels' actions.

 

[Toni]

You know, by your analogy, you're saying Blacks are inherently violent. Did you mean to convey that?

No, I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that if you take any living animal and put them in dire economic conditions they will need to fight for survival. How do you expect anybody living in a ghetto to survive without getting violent?

Quit believing the apologists. Dire economic conditions if they exist are self-inflicted.

Yep. It was their fault that they had ancestors stupid enough to be enslaved and not clever enough to pass for white so they could go to school..

 

[Derec]

That is simply irrational, given Arbery's "history of theft" is one arrest for shoplifting.

Somebody who has a conviction for theft is more likely to engage in thievery again.
Also, just because he was arrested and convicted for one instance, does not mean he hasn't done it at other occasions.

And it in no rational way is an excuse for the behavior of those killers.

Maybe not, but if he stole from that house he is not "just a jogger" either.

 

[Derec]

Ah, but you see, in Derec's mind, the average gun-toting vigilante can simply look at a black man walking or jogging down the street and know their entire criminal history.

Except they knew each other from the investigation of the case where Arbery at 19 years old brought a gun to a high school sports event.

 

[Derec]

You have not established a history of theft.

I have.

I see reports that he was investigated on a shoplifting charge, not that he pled guilty or was found guilty at trial. Were charges brought?

He was convicted all right. The CNN article I linked to before mentions a "shoplifting conviction", not just a charge.
As does this article.

In his letter, Barnhill said that “Arbery’s mental health records and prior convictions help explain his apparent aggressive nature and his possible thought pattern to attack an armed man.” Arbery was convicted of bringing a handgun to Brunswick High School in 2013, court records show. He was also convicted of stealing a television from Walmart in 2017. Neither case file, both of which were reviewed by The Daily Beast, make any reference to Arbery’s mental health.

Ahmaud Arbery was a thief. Deal with it!

I'm not finding the anything about the evidence, either. How solid was the lead McMichael was following that led him to Arbery?

Which case are you talking about here?

I think we need more information before we start reaching conclusions on the matter of shoplifting and stealing fishing tackle.

We know he was convicted of shoplifting. And I have not made any conclusions about fishing tackle except that it is a strong possibility Arbery did it.

Keep in mind, even if we can reasonably conclude that Arbery had stolen things in the past (we are nowhere near that point), he didn't do it on the day he was killed so it can't be used to justify the McMichaels' actions.

Doesn't mean he wasn't prowling.

 

[Derec]

Yep. It was their fault that they had ancestors stupid enough to be enslaved and not clever enough to pass for white so they could go to school..

Forget ancestors! Everybody had shitty things happen to some of their ancestors. Some of my ancestors were oppressed by Ottoman Turks for 500 years for example. And most of the Middle Ages ancestors of most Europeans were feudal serfs, which was a not much better existence than antebellum slavery in the US.

In the modern day, blacks have no excuse not to finish high school, or to make several children with multiple baby daddies/mamas by the time they are 21, or to engage in criminal activity. All that's on them, not on white people or "The Man".

Did Arbery steal a TV from Walmart because of his ancestors? Did he bring a gun to a high school game because of his ancestors? Is that going to be the excuse no matter the behavior?

 

[Arctish]

I have.

No, you haven't. You merely asserted it. And now you're going to repeat it whenever the case is discussed because that's what you do.

He was convicted all right. The CNN article I linked to before mentions a "shoplifting conviction", not just a charge.
As does this article.

About that letter from Barnhill:

Barnhill’s letter, obtained by the Times, contained Barnhill’s legal argument for why the McMichaels should not be arrested or charged in Arbery’s death, as well as his recusal from the case over his son’s position at the nearby Brunswick District Attorney’s Office. The Brunswick District Attorney, Jackie Johnson, had already recused herself because Gregory McMichael had previously been employed at that office.

“It appears their intent was to stop and hold this criminal suspect until law enforcement arrived. Under Georgia Law, this is perfectly legal,” Barnhill wrote of the McMichaels.

Barnhill's contention that the McMichaels had probable cause and their actions were "perfectly legal" is horseshit. They would have had to have witnessed Arbery committing a crime to make an attempt to arrest or detain him legal. And given that Barnhill is a District Attorney in the State of Georgia, he damn well knows it.

In his letter, Barnhill said that “Arbery’s mental health records and prior convictions help explain his apparent aggressive nature and his possible thought pattern to attack an armed man.” Arbery was convicted of bringing a handgun to Brunswick High School in 2013, court records show. He was also convicted of stealing a television from Walmart in 2017. Neither case file, both of which were reviewed by The Daily Beast, make any reference to Arbery’s mental health.

Ahmaud Arbery was a thief. Deal with it!

I'm not finding the anything about the evidence, either. How solid was the lead McMichael was following that led him to Arbery?

Which case are you talking about here?

I think we need more information before we start reaching conclusions on the matter of shoplifting and stealing fishing tackle.

We know he was convicted of shoplifting.

There is very little information about the shoplifting charge*** and what I've seen doesn't say anything about a conviction.

If you have details, please share them along with your source.

And I have not made any conclusions about fishing tackle except that it is a strong possibility Arbery did it.

Keep in mind, even if we can reasonably conclude that Arbery had stolen things in the past (we are nowhere near that point), he didn't do it on the day he was killed so it can't be used to justify the McMichaels' actions.

Doesn't mean he wasn't prowling.

The McMichaels would have had to see him committing a crime in order to justify pursuing him. All they saw Arbery doing was jogging.

***ETA: I see that your article says he was convicted of shoplifting a TV from WalMart. That would explain the McMichael's suspicions but it still doesn't make what they did legal. It's still aggravated assault and felony murder. Anyway, thanks for providing a place to start looking for more information.

 

[dannyk]

***ETA: I see that your article says he was convicted of shoplifting a TV from WalMart. That would explain the McMichael's suspicions but it still doesn't make what they did legal. It's still aggravated assault and felony murder. Anyway, thanks for providing a place to start looking for more information.

I'm surprised you still appear to have absolute certainty about what happened when you've acknowledged that he's corrected you. This whole thread is confirmation bias and everyone needs to step back and wait for the facts.