Questions For Women

[Rhea]

Well, you have to admit that you went to great lengths to tell SoHy that she couldn’t possibly know why she dresses nice, and she should look to you for the reason for her behavior.

Which seems strikingly odd for such a vehement claim. “I know what’s in your head and you don’t”

Some people dress in “sexy” clothes because the fabric feels nice. Some people wear push-up bras because it minimizes under-boob sweat, which is certainly worthy of being avoided. Some people dress in “sexy” clothes because their thermostats run hot and they need to expose skin to be comfortable. Some days I like to wear leggings because I plan to exercise and that gives free movement.

But facts are - many many women are NOT dressing for men. They actively do not like the attention of men on their body. It’s creepy and gross to be treated like a target. And evolutionarily speaking, females do not always want to display, and indeed shun the advances of the male, so that is quite wrong as well.

 

[prideandfall]

Well, you have to admit that you went to great lengths to tell SoHy that she couldn’t possibly know why she dresses nice, and she should look to you for the reason for her behavior.

i don't think i need to do that at all, because i didn't.

Which seems strikingly odd for such a vehement claim. “I know what’s in your head and you don’t”

i actually went out of my way repeatedly to claim exactly the opposite, so... that's fun i guess.

But facts are - many many women are NOT dressing for men. They actively do not like the attention of men on their body. It’s creepy and gross to be treated like a target. And evolutionarily speaking, females do not always want to display, and indeed shun the advances of the male, so that is quite wrong as well.

all of that is true, and none of that is related to what i said nor a refutation of the point.

 

[southernhybrid]

Well, you have to admit that you went to great lengths to tell SoHy that she couldn’t possibly know why she dresses nice, and she should look to you for the reason for her behavior.

Which seems strikingly odd for such a vehement claim. “I know what’s in your head and you don’t”

Some people dress in “sexy” clothes because the fabric feels nice. Some people wear push-up bras because it minimizes under-boob sweat, which is certainly worthy of being avoided. Some people dress in “sexy” clothes because their thermostats run hot and they need to expose skin to be comfortable. Some days I like to wear leggings because I plan to exercise and that gives free movement.

But facts are - many many women are NOT dressing for men. They actively do not like the attention of men on their body. It’s creepy and gross to be treated like a target. And evolutionarily speaking, females do not always want to display, and indeed shun the advances of the male, so that is quite wrong as well.

I didn't bother to read his idiotic post because I saw no point in arguing with a male who thinks he knows what goes on in a woman's mind, especially a woman he has never met in person.

But, his reactions, the ones that I've read, are just another example of the sexist nonsense that we women, despite our gains, still have to put up with from men.

Interestingly enough, my neighbor and I were discussing how women dress a few days before this thread started. We both agreed that we dress to please ourselves, regardless of what type of clothing we choose to wear. She has a style. Her style is baggy slacks, with a loose fitting top and sometimes a scarf. We each have a preferred style that we wear because we are comfortable and we like wearing what we do.

I also think it's important for women not to judge each other's appearance or their taste in clothing. Certainly there are times when we wonder what another women was thinking when she put on a particular outfit, but my feeling has always been, if it makes her feel good about herself, then I have no right to judge. If someone asks me for advice, that's a different matter, but older women don't usually ask their friends for approval of their clothing.

 

[Toni]

i don't think i need to do that at all, because i didn't.


i actually went out of my way repeatedly to claim exactly the opposite, so... that's fun i guess.

But facts are - many many women are NOT dressing for men. They actively do not like the attention of men on their body. It’s creepy and gross to be treated like a target. And evolutionarily speaking, females do not always want to display, and indeed shun the advances of the male, so that is quite wrong as well.

all of that is true, and none of that is related to what i said nor a refutation of the point.

Wait, so this wasn't you, then? Post 26.

disclaimer: i'm going to be referring to human nature and psychology on a macro level. i'm not a psychic and i'm not delving the secrets of humanity out of anybody's brain, for all i know SH is the one human in the history of the planet earth who grew up in a bubble and never experienced cultural factors and is a pristine android immune to social influence.
barring that, my responses are predicated on the reality of human social engineering and the psychological motivations behind many of our actions due to us evolving as social animals.


because you do.
(or, to please women, in the case of lesbians)


yes you do.

Most of us dress to please ourselves, regardless if we wear high heels, dresses, or skinny jeans like I do. In fact, despite the fact that my husband is constantly telling me things like, "you look mighty sexy in those jeans, babe", I'd dress the same way if I was single and never left the house. I dress to please myself. I like the way I look and I really don't give a shit if anyone else likes or dislikes my style.

and *why* exactly do you do that?
i've seen women doll themselves up a hundred times and then claim they're doing it for themselves, and every excuse i've ever heard was a shallow attempt to justify it being some personal choice.

if you like how you look, it's because you perceive how you look being desirable to your preferred potential mate type.
if dressing 'sexy' makes you feel confident, your confidence is in feeling like men are looking at you and liking it.

this is all true of men too btw, i'm not just slagging on women - *everyone* dresses in a way that they feel signals to their preferred mate type. nobody dresses "just for them" like they live in some vacuum where the gaze of others isn't a factor.

you know who "dresses for themselves"? the people at walmart you occasionally see a picture of where a shirtless old woman has her tits tucked into the top of her sweat pants.
anyone who puts even a modicum of attention into their fashion is doing so to display to potential mates.

Huh.

 

[DrZoidberg]

This thread is for questions about women that have plagued men throughout history.

One for me is why on Earth do women wear high heels? I haven't looked it up but there must be long term physical problems and accidents.

This one we don't need to ask women about. We can just ask the men who started with the high heels thing. But we know why they started wearing it. They wanted boots where the heel would slip out of the stirrup, and by sheer happenstance it also seemed to make them taller and more masculine. So they also wore it off the horses. The 1700's trend for men was long slim legs, in silk stockings. Since manly high status men didn't do any physical labor, having impractical shoes became a status symbol. Women starting to wear it was of course an act of feminism. To take male coded items of clothing and wearing them and owning it. Over time it became female coded and a symbol of femininity.

Yes, it's a weird world.

 

[DrZoidberg]

But first....why do men wear ties? Are they trying to hang themselves? What's the deal with wearing something around your neck that might strangle you?

It's a remnant of a status object of earlier fashions. In the 1600's the military had the highest status, so civilians borrowed military accessories to make their clothes look more military like. The coolest sort of soldier you could be in the 1600's was a musketeer. Having a cravat around your neck was a symbol of the musketeers. They wore it around their necks to prevent them from stooping forward on the battlefield. It physically held the neck up high. Very impractical. But was supposed to spread fear in the enemy since your team all stood unflinching erect and stiff as a board when peppered with enemy musket balls. The modern tie has a similar function. It's supposed to make it hard to slump. the shirt collar is supposed to keep the head up, and the tie holds it together.

It's the same thing with the suit jacket. It was originally a type of jacket used exclusively by the army.

 

[prideandfall]

I didn't bother to read his idiotic post because I saw no point in arguing with a male who thinks he knows what goes on in a woman's mind, especially a woman he has never met in person.

"i didn't bother to read what he actually said because i already know what he said even though i have no idea what he said"

your logic is fucking impeccable. bravo.

But, his reactions, the ones that I've read, are just another example of the sexist nonsense that we women, despite our gains, still have to put up with from men.

"clothing fashion in humans is a mate display trait that has nothing to do with gender" is sexist?

Interestingly enough, my neighbor and I were discussing how women dress a few days before this thread started. We both agreed that we dress to please ourselves, regardless of what type of clothing we choose to wear. She has a style. Her style is baggy slacks, with a loose fitting top and sometimes a scarf. We each have a preferred style that we wear because we are comfortable and we like wearing what we do.

I also think it's important for women not to judge each other's appearance or their taste in clothing. Certainly there are times when we wonder what another women was thinking when she put on a particular outfit, but my feeling has always been, if it makes her feel good about herself, then I have no right to judge. If someone asks me for advice, that's a different matter, but older women don't usually ask their friends for approval of their clothing.

oh! oh ok got it, sorry.

i didn't realize i was in a situation with people who were just having a hissy fit at a hallucination, but i see now that none of you have actually read anything i posted.

my sincere apologies, i was stupidly presenting scientifically (and logically) confirmed facts about reality, and you were all clucking at a fantasy that you for some reason kept pointing in my direction.

i won't waste any more of my time on this, please enjoy a smug sense of superiority at having defeated me with the insurmountable mental power of having absolutely no clue what is going here.

 

[Emily Lake]

So... we're really just gonna brush right past the surface level sexism here?

The thread is premised on asking women why women do X... where X is a stereotype about women.

ETA: Also want to point out the fact that a question was asked of women... and when women gave an answer, a man proceeded to tell those women that they were wrong about their own thoughts, and to correct them about what they're really actually doing.

So... yeah. If you folks want to ask men why men think women do certain things, go right ahead and enjoy your circle jerk. Otherwise, maybe consider actually listening to what we tell you instead of mansplaining why what we think is wrong. And you know, maybe consider asking women whether or not the shallow stereotypes being bandied about actually hold any fucking water to begin with.

 

[Toni]

"i didn't bother to read what he actually said because i already know what he said even though i have no idea what he said"

your logic is fucking impeccable. bravo.


"clothing fashion in humans is a mate display trait that has nothing to do with gender" is sexist?

Interestingly enough, my neighbor and I were discussing how women dress a few days before this thread started. We both agreed that we dress to please ourselves, regardless of what type of clothing we choose to wear. She has a style. Her style is baggy slacks, with a loose fitting top and sometimes a scarf. We each have a preferred style that we wear because we are comfortable and we like wearing what we do.

I also think it's important for women not to judge each other's appearance or their taste in clothing. Certainly there are times when we wonder what another women was thinking when she put on a particular outfit, but my feeling has always been, if it makes her feel good about herself, then I have no right to judge. If someone asks me for advice, that's a different matter, but older women don't usually ask their friends for approval of their clothing.

oh! oh ok got it, sorry.

i didn't realize i was in a situation with people who were just having a hissy fit at a hallucination, but i see now that none of you have actually read anything i posted.

my sincere apologies, i was stupidly presenting scientifically (and logically) confirmed facts about reality, and you were all clucking at a fantasy that you for some reason kept pointing in my direction.

i won't waste any more of my time on this, please enjoy a smug sense of superiority at having defeated me with the insurmountable mental power of having absolutely no clue what is going here.

Lololol
So you’re not going to address your post that I quoted above. Got it.

 

[steve_bank]

So... we're really just gonna brush right past the surface level sexism here?

The thread is premised on asking women why women do X... where X is a stereotype about women.

ETA: Also want to point out the fact that a question was asked of women... and when women gave an answer, a man proceeded to tell those women that they were wrong about their own thoughts, and to correct them about what they're really actually doing.

So... yeah. If you folks want to ask men why men think women do certain things, go right ahead and enjoy your circle jerk. Otherwise, maybe consider actually listening to what we tell you instead of mansplaining why what we think is wrong. And you know, maybe consider asking women whether or not the shallow stereotypes being bandied about actually hold any fucking water to begin with.

Sexism is a two way street. Are you going to tell me women do not hang around talking about men? Sexualizing's men?
Women, certainly not all, wear bras and tops to accentuate breasts. It is not a stereotype it is reality. Women sexually objectify themselves. Breast implants.

The term toxic masculinity has been coined. What about toxic femininity?

 

[Politesse]

So... we're really just gonna brush right past the surface level sexism here?

The thread is premised on asking women why women do X... where X is a stereotype about women.

ETA: Also want to point out the fact that a question was asked of women... and when women gave an answer, a man proceeded to tell those women that they were wrong about their own thoughts, and to correct them about what they're really actually doing.

So... yeah. If you folks want to ask men why men think women do certain things, go right ahead and enjoy your circle jerk. Otherwise, maybe consider actually listening to what we tell you instead of mansplaining why what we think is wrong. And you know, maybe consider asking women whether or not the shallow stereotypes being bandied about actually hold any fucking water to begin with.

Sexism is a two way street. Are you going to tell me women do not hang around talking about men? Sexualizing's men?
Women, certainly not all, wear bras and tops to accentuate breasts. It is not a stereotype it is reality. Women sexually objectify themselves. Breast implants.

The term toxic masculinity has been coined. What about toxic femininity?

Umm, I don't see any thread dedicated to spamming sexist tropes about men. Your whataboutism is not very relevant to the discussion.

 

[James Brown]

Can I ask some questions to women?

How would your life change if all men had a curfew of 9:00pm?

Suppose you were magically provided with an hour of free time. No obligations to anyone else, no demands. What would you do during that hour?

What if it was a year? Again, no obligations, no expectations, and at the end of the year you pick up your old life right were you left off. What would you do with a free year?

They're forming up a Martian colony. The life will be rugged, hard, and immensely rewarding. (Imagine that the odds of survival in just reaching Mars is the same as flying to another continent on Earth.) Would you go? What if you could take one person with you--would that change your answer, and who would that person be? What do you think you would do in a harsh frontier?

If you have children, and if you could go back in time before you had kids, would you do it again? Would you want the same number of kids you have now?

What do you hope to accomplish in the next 10 years?

When you look back on your life, what do you think will be your biggest accomplishment? What will be your biggest regret?

What would you tell your teenage self?

 

[Toni]

So... we're really just gonna brush right past the surface level sexism here?

The thread is premised on asking women why women do X... where X is a stereotype about women.

ETA: Also want to point out the fact that a question was asked of women... and when women gave an answer, a man proceeded to tell those women that they were wrong about their own thoughts, and to correct them about what they're really actually doing.

So... yeah. If you folks want to ask men why men think women do certain things, go right ahead and enjoy your circle jerk. Otherwise, maybe consider actually listening to what we tell you instead of mansplaining why what we think is wrong. And you know, maybe consider asking women whether or not the shallow stereotypes being bandied about actually hold any fucking water to begin with.

Sexism is a two way street. Are you going to tell me women do not hang around talking about men? Sexualizing's men?
Women, certainly not all, wear bras and tops to accentuate breasts. It is not a stereotype it is reality. Women sexually objectify themselves. Breast implants.

The term toxic masculinity has been coined. What about toxic femininity?

Bras are pretty essential garments for women with average or above average sized breasts. The extra support that a well fitting supportive bra provides helps alleviate a great deal of back pain. Sometimes, breast reduction surgery is necessary. That’s more expensive by far and requires some time off of work, and as with all surgery, is not without risks.

Women choose breast augmentation for a variety of reasons, including to correct a disparity in breast size, as well as to restore breasts lost to disease or disfigurement. Not everyone wishes to make her status as a breast cancer survivor obvious to any casual observer. Women sometimes have their breasts enlarged to please a male partner, sure. And sometimes, they feel the security of that relationship, their financial security and even physical safety depend on pleasing their make partner and complying with whatever he wants.

Do some women have distorted views of their bodies or body parts? Of course. We live in a society that is rife with sexism, worship of celebrity, youth, thinness. It is known that physical attributes associated with youth, athleticism and attractiveness enhance an individual’s chances at being hired and promoted for all sorts of positions, not merely those associated with sex work, entertainment, advertising, or sports. This applies to males as well although men tend to be given a longer shelf life.

Do some women feel a great deal of pressure to conform to some male ideal of sexual attractiveness? Yes. This is rooted in sexism and disparate economic and social opportunities between the genders.

How much does weight to her perception of what will gain her make approval an average woman over the age of 25 place on her wardrobe choices? Precious little. Most dress according to workplace expectations, as do men. I have yet to observe any woman ask or care what a male coworker or supervisor thought of her new blouse or shoes. She will ask her female coworkers and women frequently praise and critique each other’s hair, clothing, weight, shoes, HANDBAGS, etc.

 

[Emily Lake]

Can I ask some questions to women?

How would your life change if all men had a curfew of 9:00pm?

I'm assuming that men have a curfew, but women don't? I think the biggest change would be that I would be a little bit less concerned about walking down a street alone at night. I don't think the concern would evaporate, because I'm inclined to think that the type of men who are inclined to attack women in darkly lit areas are also inclined to ignore curfew laws. On the other hand, it would seriously get in the way of going to the movies, out for drinks, etc. with my spouse. And it would probably be a serious problem for people trying tp meet a significant other.

Suppose you were magically provided with an hour of free time. No obligations to anyone else, no demands. What would you do during that hour?

Same think I do with the harshly-enforced hour-and-a-half of personal free time that I get every morning - play video games, watch TV, read a book, paint... whatever I feel like doing with no input from anyone else

What if it was a year? Again, no obligations, no expectations, and at the end of the year you pick up your old life right were you left off. What would you do with a free year?

Assuming I've still got the same income and cashflow that I have at present, but with no obligation to actually do any work... I think I'd probably travel. I've got friends around the country and the world that I don't get to see very often. I think I'd also take a cooking class, because I'm a remarkably mediocre cook but I really like food.

They're forming up a Martian colony. The life will be rugged, hard, and immensely rewarding. (Imagine that the odds of survival in just reaching Mars is the same as flying to another continent on Earth.) Would you go? What if you could take one person with you--would that change your answer, and who would that person be? What do you think you would do in a harsh frontier?

If it were me alone, no I wouldn't go, even though I would want to. If I could take one other person, I'd take my spouse, and we'd go in a heart beat. On the other hand, if Rama showed up and some cool aliens wanted to take me away to explore the galaxy but I cold only go alone, I'd leave my spouse behind. I lov ehim, but i'm not passing up that opportunity. And of course, the harshness of the environment is a factor in that decision.

If you have children, and if you could go back in time before you had kids, would you do it again? Would you want the same number of kids you have now?

I don't have kids, and cannot have kids since I hit 35 due to a medical problem. If I could do it over, I'd have had a kid or two right after I got married, back when my uterus was in working order. They'd all be fully grown and moved out (hopefully) by now.

What do you hope to accomplish in the next 10 years?

I would like to finally get ALL of the moving boxes unpacked, and get rid of the stuff that we don't need that is cluttering up several boxes and closets.

When you look back on your life, what do you think will be your biggest accomplishment? What will be your biggest regret?

Biggest accomplishment - got a career in a field that I actually enjoy. Biggest regret... not sucking it up and bringing my dad out to visit us in WA before he died.

What would you tell your teenage self?

Don't go on that date with that guy. In fact, don't talk to that sleezebag at all. Consider setting him on fire if he gets within arm's reach of you.

 

[prideandfall]

So you’re not going to address your post that I quoted above. Got it.

what is there to address?
it seems blindingly obvious to me that SH was using the royal 'we' in her post and that i was using the royal 'you' in my reply, and even if i concede that it's possible i misread her and was then subsequently misread in what 'we' and 'you' meant, my following posts which clarified my point clearly indicate i wasn't talking to her specifically.
your posts read like you either don't know about the existence of the 'royal you', or you're so intellectually vapid that you think harping on a gross misinterpretation of a couple of sentences disproves a scientifically validated fact about humans which you haven't even acknowledged, let alone attempted to refute.
i don't see what there is for me to address that isn't simply attempting to excuse your straw man of what's been posted, which is a wasted effort.

i fully acknowledge i have a sardonic way of speaking, it's a bad habit of mine that can often make the first thing i say come across as a lot shittier than i meant it, so i would concede that if you squint a lot and already have an axe to grind that you're trying to satisfy, you could in theory possibly so grossly misinterpret my first post like everyone who has replied to me in this thread has done, barring emily lake.

but not a single one of you who have replied to me have actually addressed the thing i said, you're just dreaming up a fantasy based on a lack of reading comprehension and then spewing idiocy at me and acting like you just invented bread.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Pillows? Twenty-five years ago my wife and I built and furnished the home where we're living now. One wall is lined with a cabinet nearly two meters tall and three meters wide with windowed doors. My wife's intention was to fill the entire cabinet with pillows! I tried to stake out one shelf as a place, at least temporarily, for screwdrivers and such. My wife responded by removing all the pillows and throwing them onto the floor!

That may have been the low point of our marriage. We recovered and have remained happy for the past 25 years. Now I'm not sure I could live without her.

Yeah, what is it with pillows?

At least hers are confined to a sofa that is virtually never used so they aren't a problem.

 

[skepticalbip]

Pillows? Twenty-five years ago my wife and I built and furnished the home where we're living now. One wall is lined with a cabinet nearly two meters tall and three meters wide with windowed doors. My wife's intention was to fill the entire cabinet with pillows! I tried to stake out one shelf as a place, at least temporarily, for screwdrivers and such. My wife responded by removing all the pillows and throwing them onto the floor!

That may have been the low point of our marriage. We recovered and have remained happy for the past 25 years. Now I'm not sure I could live without her.

You left me hanging. Were you ever allowed to have a space to keep your screwdriver?

 

[Treedbear]

Typically ... women are the decorators in the (hetero) marriage. Women just like to express their taste in the appearance of things. They do so with their own bodies and they do so in the home. You look in the magazines devoted to the McMansion class and there's always a room with chairs and sofas festooned with fancy pillows. When you have tons of money you can dedicate an entire room to ornaments because the room never gets used. It seems people aspire to those things. Unfortunately the least often used room in the average home is the bedroom, so by default that's where the pillows need to go.

 

[Toni]

So you’re not going to address your post that I quoted above. Got it.

what is there to address?
it seems blindingly obvious to me that SH was using the royal 'we' in her post and that i was using the royal 'you' in my reply, and even if i concede that it's possible i misread her and was then subsequently misread in what 'we' and 'you' meant, my following posts which clarified my point clearly indicate i wasn't talking to her specifically.
your posts read like you either don't know about the existence of the 'royal you', or you're so intellectually vapid that you think harping on a gross misinterpretation of a couple of sentences disproves a scientifically validated fact about humans which you haven't even acknowledged, let alone attempted to refute.
i don't see what there is for me to address that isn't simply attempting to excuse your straw man of what's been posted, which is a wasted effort.

i fully acknowledge i have a sardonic way of speaking, it's a bad habit of mine that can often make the first thing i say come across as a lot shittier than i meant it, so i would concede that if you squint a lot and already have an axe to grind that you're trying to satisfy, you could in theory possibly so grossly misinterpret my first post like everyone who has replied to me in this thread has done, barring emily lake.

but not a single one of you who have replied to me have actually addressed the thing i said, you're just dreaming up a fantasy based on a lack of reading comprehension and then spewing idiocy at me and acting like you just invented bread.

So, no defense at all. Your simplistic sentence structure is beyond my poor little feminine brain or whatever you think passes for a brain in a woman’s head.

The problem is that in fact, I did read what you wrote. And I believe that you believe it. That’s the real problem. Not that I’ve failed to sufficiently counter your argument but that I believe that you believe what you’ve stated. You can attempt to gaslight us by claiming that your use of a royal we was simply in line with SoHy’s use of your presumed royal we completely alters the meaning of your words. Maybe it’s the lack of blue blood in my veins but I’m not buying what you’re selling.

 

[Toni]

Pillows? Twenty-five years ago my wife and I built and furnished the home where we're living now. One wall is lined with a cabinet nearly two meters tall and three meters wide with windowed doors. My wife's intention was to fill the entire cabinet with pillows! I tried to stake out one shelf as a place, at least temporarily, for screwdrivers and such. My wife responded by removing all the pillows and throwing them onto the floor!

That may have been the low point of our marriage. We recovered and have remained happy for the past 25 years. Now I'm not sure I could live without her.

Yeah, what is it with pillows?

At least hers are confined to a sofa that is virtually never used so they aren't a problem.

I explained pillows upthread.