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Trump Will Likely Win

Gospel said:
Colonel Sanders said:
Certainly Fox News and the shrieking dildo Rush Limbaugh that helped spawn FN shares a lot of the blame for us being on the brink of authoritarian conservatism. However, it's reasonable to wonder that had so many millions of white people not been so demeaned and ridiculed for no other reason than for being white, would we being fretting over battleground states right now where a few thousand votes may be the end of America's democracy.
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Historically marginalized groups in America—whether Black, Indigenous, or immigrant communities—have not collectively sought to destroy the nation or its democracy. On the contrary, they've fought for equal treatment, civil rights, and inclusion under the same democratic principles America claims to stand for. Movements like the Civil Rights Movement and others have been about securing basic rights that were promised but denied, not about revenge or dismantling the country.

What you're describing, however, is a reaction from those who feel attacked for their identity. But we should question what that says about those people. Instead of seeking justice or fairness, there's a rush to undermine democracy itself. This shift towards authoritarianism isn’t about fairness, but a rejection of progress toward equality. The fact that people who feel 'demeaned' are willing to support leaders and policies that endanger democratic principles speaks volumes about their priorities. While marginalized communities have sought equality through democratic means, those defending this reaction seem to justify extreme measures in response to feeling unfairly criticized. Shouldn't that make us question their commitment to the ideals they claim are being threatened?
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I think both you and Colonel Sanders have valid points. In the end though, I think sometimes democrats forget that white redneck types vote. Economics is secondary for most people. Yet both working class whites and blacks should be natural allies. Of course politicians have always sought to divide people - especially in the southeast. The slave power drove secession in the late 1850's to 1861. They then forced poor whites to fight for their "rights" while exempting themselves from service so that they could stay at home and tend to their plantations - just so they could protect the white women.

It still goes on today in the South. Segregationists in the 50's and 60's were all about stoking these fears. Now it is just the dog whistle rather than the out and out racism of the past - but it's still fundamentally the same thing.

All that being said, democrats need to do a better job reaching out to working class white people. A constant barrage of criticism against them and their views isn't likely to work. I remember when Howard Dean was almost crucified for saying he wanted the vote of that guy with the pick up truck and the confederate flag. The democrats went on to lose the election after they didn't nominate him.

Instead understand that they feel displaced, but help them understand that their oppressor isn't the democratic party, but the republican party that uses them to vote against their own economic history. Work more to find their commonality with democratic policies. Paper over their differences. If you want them to change their views on things like race, then simply work with them. Eventually they'll come around. Don't make everything about race - even if it is.

As a sort of side note, I saw John Oliver crucify a white man who was arguing against a black man about what the civil war was about - i.e. slavery v. states rights. The white guy was saying his ancestors didn't fight for slavery and didn't own slaves. Oliver was really funny. He was also incredibly insensitive and stupid. Insulting people's ancestry doesn't work. The meaning of the civil war is irrelevant. Instead, had I been there, I would have asked the white guy and the black guy what they thought about how to reform social security so their benefits would be there throughout their lives?

If we did this, Trump would never come even close to winning.
 
Politesse said:
SLD said:
robnisch said:
bilby said:
robnisch said:
the leading candidate talks about a dead golfers penis and the speaker of the house blows it off
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Wait, the speaker did what!?
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I knew this happen. Butt, are not most republican leaders cock suckers?
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He does have an obsession with cocks. Do the gays on this board also find it . . . Gay?

Maybe he’s just bi-curious.
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No. His fascination with cocks is entirely competition-based. Typical frat boy behavior.
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OK. Fine. I'll take it from a non-binary person. I am wrong. Just my typical homophobic side coming out! I would never comment on a guy's cock for fear of being accused of being gay.
 
Gospel said:

I would agree that the behavior of a few individuals defines reality if I were biased enough to make that assumption. Unfortunately, I've encountered people like that gentleman across various racial backgrounds, so it's clear that it has little to do with 'white privilege' and more to do with someone simply being inconsiderate. This applies to many situations, including working-class white Americans voting for Trump. They aren't representative of all working white Americans, just as one or more person's rude behavior doesn’t represent an entire community.
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Rudeness and inconsiderateness are non-colour specific. At work I can meet rude Kiwis, Pacific islanders, Filipinoes, Poms, Sudanese, Aussies etc. Skin colour makes no difference.
If you are in a minority group and a number of the majority group are rude it seems to be human nature that to assume > 2 are rude => all are rude.
 
SLD said:
Politesse said:
SLD said:
robnisch said:
bilby said:
robnisch said:
the leading candidate talks about a dead golfers penis and the speaker of the house blows it off
Click to expand...
Wait, the speaker did what!?
Click to expand...
I knew this happen. Butt, are not most republican leaders cock suckers?
Click to expand...
He does have an obsession with cocks. Do the gays on this board also find it . . . Gay?

Maybe he’s just bi-curious.
Click to expand...
No. His fascination with cocks is entirely competition-based. Typical frat boy behavior.
Click to expand...
OK. Fine. I'll take it from a non-binary person. I am wrong. Just my typical homophobic side coming out! I would never comment on a guy's cock for fear of being accused of being gay.
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Yes. You might get more that you bargained for.
 
Spacetime Inhabitant said:
Colonel Sanders said:
pood said:
Colonel Sanders said:
It's not strange. It's a diminution of the things that white people go through too. When you essentially tell someone who's struggling that their struggle isn't real because other people have it worse then the response is going to be a gigantic Fuck You. And "Fuck you" is what Trump has inspired in these people.
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But Democrats aren’t telling white people that. If they somehow are hearing that, maybe they have been brainwashed by Fox News?
Colonel Sanders said:
I hate Trump with every fiber of my being. I hate what he's inspired, but what he did tap into was decades worth of dismissive ridicule at the hands of the left.
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It simply isn’t true that the “left,” whatever that is — it certainly is not mainstream Democrats — have dismissively ridiculed working-class white people. Maybe they THINK Democrats have done this, because for four decades Faux News has been TELLING them this.
Colonel Sanders said:
The vast, vast majority of white people aren't privileged. It's an absurd notion, and no one should be expected to tolerate absurdity of any kind. Throw in actual racism, shocking ignorance, and poor reading skills, and what you're going to get is the hate that Trump has so successfully tapped into.
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Throughout our history, white people have been racially privileged. That is true regardless of a white person’s economic status.

I see nothing willfully malicious in seeking a just society for all.
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Democrats have indeed done this. It sure isn't the Communist Party USA that has perpetuated it.

I went to college relatively late in life. I'd always dismissed conservative concerns about universities teaching wacky leftist nonsense. Well, it turns out there is some merit to that. I had to sit through a "Keystone"* course where the professor claimed Jamie Lee Curtis wasn't a woman and that "The white people in this very room" were oppressing POC simply by being white. That actually happened. Sociology was especially bad to the point that "soft racism" is an appropriate term to describe it.

It didn't cause me to retaliate by running to Fox News and voting Republican, but I did come away with a more informed understanding of what conservatives were talking about.

The term "white privilege" does come from the left and your comment that whites have always been privileged regardless of economic circumstances is exactly what I'm talking about. It is dismissive and woefully inaccurate.

Certainly Fox News and the shrieking dildo Rush Limbaugh that helped spawn FN shares a lot of the blame for us being on the brink of authoritarian conservatism. However, it's reasonable to wonder that had so many millions of white people not been so demeaned and ridiculed for no other reason than for being white, would we being fretting over battleground states right now where a few thousand votes may be the end of America's democracy.

As a liberal, it's easy and accurate to point out how awful Trumpism is, but the lack of self reflection pertaining to this issue may very well be the last little stone that helped tip the scales in favor of authoritarianism.

*To be fair, one of the Keystone courses wass about South American cultures and racial diversity. It was taught by an old guy anthropologist who dressed like Indiana Jones. I came away from that course feeling very enlightened on the subject. I appreciate that I was made to take that class. No one was bashed, no one was blamed. That's the way awareness and diversity should be taught.
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Claiming that Jamie Lee Curtis isn't a woman sounds like something a right-winger would say.
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You have indeed met some unusual right wingers. It's not the "right" that has trouble with defining what a woman is. It is the "left"
 
Tigers! said:
Spacetime Inhabitant said:
Colonel Sanders said:
pood said:
Colonel Sanders said:
It's not strange. It's a diminution of the things that white people go through too. When you essentially tell someone who's struggling that their struggle isn't real because other people have it worse then the response is going to be a gigantic Fuck You. And "Fuck you" is what Trump has inspired in these people.
Click to expand...
But Democrats aren’t telling white people that. If they somehow are hearing that, maybe they have been brainwashed by Fox News?
Colonel Sanders said:
I hate Trump with every fiber of my being. I hate what he's inspired, but what he did tap into was decades worth of dismissive ridicule at the hands of the left.
Click to expand...

It simply isn’t true that the “left,” whatever that is — it certainly is not mainstream Democrats — have dismissively ridiculed working-class white people. Maybe they THINK Democrats have done this, because for four decades Faux News has been TELLING them this.
Colonel Sanders said:
The vast, vast majority of white people aren't privileged. It's an absurd notion, and no one should be expected to tolerate absurdity of any kind. Throw in actual racism, shocking ignorance, and poor reading skills, and what you're going to get is the hate that Trump has so successfully tapped into.
Click to expand...
Throughout our history, white people have been racially privileged. That is true regardless of a white person’s economic status.

I see nothing willfully malicious in seeking a just society for all.
Click to expand...
Democrats have indeed done this. It sure isn't the Communist Party USA that has perpetuated it.

I went to college relatively late in life. I'd always dismissed conservative concerns about universities teaching wacky leftist nonsense. Well, it turns out there is some merit to that. I had to sit through a "Keystone"* course where the professor claimed Jamie Lee Curtis wasn't a woman and that "The white people in this very room" were oppressing POC simply by being white. That actually happened. Sociology was especially bad to the point that "soft racism" is an appropriate term to describe it.

It didn't cause me to retaliate by running to Fox News and voting Republican, but I did come away with a more informed understanding of what conservatives were talking about.

The term "white privilege" does come from the left and your comment that whites have always been privileged regardless of economic circumstances is exactly what I'm talking about. It is dismissive and woefully inaccurate.

Certainly Fox News and the shrieking dildo Rush Limbaugh that helped spawn FN shares a lot of the blame for us being on the brink of authoritarian conservatism. However, it's reasonable to wonder that had so many millions of white people not been so demeaned and ridiculed for no other reason than for being white, would we being fretting over battleground states right now where a few thousand votes may be the end of America's democracy.

As a liberal, it's easy and accurate to point out how awful Trumpism is, but the lack of self reflection pertaining to this issue may very well be the last little stone that helped tip the scales in favor of authoritarianism.

*To be fair, one of the Keystone courses wass about South American cultures and racial diversity. It was taught by an old guy anthropologist who dressed like Indiana Jones. I came away from that course feeling very enlightened on the subject. I appreciate that I was made to take that class. No one was bashed, no one was blamed. That's the way awareness and diversity should be taught.
Click to expand...
Claiming that Jamie Lee Curtis isn't a woman sounds like something a right-winger would say.
Click to expand...
You have indeed met some unusual right wingers. It's not the "right" that has trouble with defining what a woman is. It is the "left"
Click to expand...
One has to reduce the conversation down to pixels of text to get to that ridiculous conclusion that the left can't define a woman.
 
southernhybrid said:
SLD said:
southernhybrid said:
pood said:
It’s believed that early voting will benefit Harris, and early voting has been way up. In Georgie some 300,000 people voted on the first day of early voting, vs. about 135,000 in that state in both 2016 and 2020.
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That was true in the past, but based on what I've read in the AJC etc. Trump has been pushing his cult supporters to vote early, so I'm not sure if early voting is helping Harris or not.

Plus, sadly, a good percentage of young men, including young Black and Latino men are voting for Trump. They are delusional. They think he's real macho.

I read an article that a lot of Americans don't want a female president. It was very depressing to read the insane stereotypes about women. Several said that women get too moody when they are premenstrual. Harris if well past menopause age, so what the fuck has that stupid stereotype do with her. Others said women were too emotional. WTF. Men are too emotional when it comes to violent reactions etc. No, not all men, but if we are going to make stereotypic, I'll take a compassion, caring one over an angry, vengeful one. The article mentions all of th e countries who have had successful female leaders, but apparently, the US remains so sexist that this might prevent Harris from winning. Even women were making these claims. I might share the article if I have the time and motivation to find it again. Sad.

I also read a piece this morning that said Jill Stein might give the election to Trump. Even her family has begged her to step down, but she hates the other two parties and somehow seems to think she can win or doesn't care if her percentage of votes help Trump win. Republicans have been helping Stein because they think that will help Trump, as more liberals will vote for her, as Harris isn't far enough to the left for them.

This is very depressing to me. We will never have a president who pleases everyone and people who can't vote for the better of the two choices piss me off. Or if they are negative, they can refer to it as the lesser of two evils. Damn fools.

We have people posting here that claim Harris is too far left and people also saying she isn't far left enough. Again, there is no reality, only perception.
southernhybrid said:
pood said:
It’s believed that early voting will benefit Harris, and early voting has been way up. In Georgie some 300,000 people voted on the first day of early voting, vs. about 135,000 in that state in both 2016 and 2020.
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That was true in the past, but based on what I've read in the AJC etc. Trump has been pushing his cult supporters to vote early, so I'm not sure if early voting is helping Harris or not.

Plus, sadly, a good percentage of young men, including young Black and Latino men are voting for Trump. They are delusional. They think he's real macho.

I read an article that a lot of Americans don't want a female president. It was very depressing to read the insane stereotypes about women. Several said that women get too moody when they are premenstrual. Harris if well past menopause age, so what the fuck has that stupid stereotype do with her. Others said women were too emotional. WTF. Men are too emotional when it comes to violent reactions etc. No, not all men, but if we are going to make stereotypic, I'll take a compassion, caring one over an angry, vengeful one. The article mentions all of th e countries who have had successful female leaders, but apparently, the US remains so sexist that this might prevent Harris from winning. Even women were making these claims. I might share the article if I have the time and motivation to find it again. Sad.

I also read a piece this morning that said Jill Stein might give the election to Trump. Even her family has begged her to step down, but she hates the other two parties and somehow seems to think she can win or doesn't care if her percentage of votes help Trump win. Republicans have been helping Stein because they think that will help Trump, as more liberals will vote for her, as Harris isn't far enough to the left for them.

This is very depressing to me. We will never have a president who pleases everyone and people who can't vote for the better of the two choices piss me off. Or if they are negative, they can refer to it as the lesser of two evils. Damn fools.

We have people posting here that claim Harris is too far left and people also saying she isn't far left enough. Again, there is no reality, only perception.
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southernhybrid said:
pood said:
It’s believed that early voting will benefit Harris, and early voting has been way up. In Georgie some 300,000 people voted on the first day of early voting, vs. about 135,000 in that state in both 2016 and 2020.
Click to expand...
That was true in the past, but based on what I've read in the AJC etc. Trump has been pushing his cult supporters to vote early, so I'm not sure if early voting is helping Harris or not.

Plus, sadly, a good percentage of young men, including young Black and Latino men are voting for Trump. They are delusional. They think he's real macho.

I read an article that a lot of Americans don't want a female president. It was very depressing to read the insane stereotypes about women. Several said that women get too moody when they are premenstrual. Harris if well past menopause age, so what the fuck has that stupid stereotype do with her. Others said women were too emotional. WTF. Men are too emotional when it comes to violent reactions etc. No, not all men, but if we are going to make stereotypic, I'll take a compassion, caring one over an angry, vengeful one. The article mentions all of th e countries who have had successful female leaders, but apparently, the US remains so sexist that this might prevent Harris from winning. Even women were making these claims. I might share the article if I have the time and motivation to find it again. Sad.

I also read a piece this morning that said Jill Stein might give the election to Trump. Even her family has begged her to step down, but she hates the other two parties and somehow seems to think she can win or doesn't care if her percentage of votes help Trump win. Republicans have been helping Stein because they think that will help Trump, as more liberals will vote for her, as Harris isn't far enough to the left for them.

This is very depressing to me. We will never have a president who pleases everyone and people who can't vote for the better of the two choices piss me off. Or if they are negative, they can refer to it as the lesser of two evils. Damn fools.

We have people posting here that claim Harris is too far left and people also saying she isn't far left enough. Again, there is no reality, only perception.
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I read though that Stein actually draws away more Trump supporters. Not sure how that happens, but I suspect that a few disaffected Republicans will vote third party rather than Harris and the rest of her supporters don’t vote at all. Regardless, the polls show a 1% drop for Trump when she’s in the mix.
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I hope that's true but it's not what I read this morning. I found the article I read earlier today. It's probably behind a pay wall, so I'll quote some of it.

https://www.ajc.com/politics/third-...don-kamala-harris/MZNLUJBDAVGRHJCIICLHOJQLSI/

“The idea of witnessing a livestreamed genocide and still awarding a presidential nominee with the presidency is outrageous,” said Awad, a Palestinian American.
For Awad and voters alike, there is no lesser of two evils because their vote hinges on a cease-fire in the yearlong conflict in Gaza, something Stein has vowed to end if elected.

“We are not for Trump, and we are not for Harris,” Awad said. “We are for a better future, and that’s why we support Jill Stein and the Green Party.”

Stein landed a spot on Georgia’s ballot by way of a new state provision after facing Democratic-backed legal action to bar her and two other minor presidential candidates from the state ticket under the belief they could siphon votes away from Harris in a close election. However, the Supreme Court of Georgia disqualified the two other long-shot candidates — Cornel West and Claudia De la Cruz — last month.



That’s why, with polls showing Trump and Harris neck and neck, Democrats are pushing a new message in the few remaining weeks of the race to shore up support from third-party voters: A vote for Stein is a vote for Trump.
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Stein won’t win this year’s race, but she could play a role in deciding who takes Georgia’s 16 electoral votes. The Democratic National Committee wants to avoid a repeat of the 2016 election, when Stein was accused of contributing to Hillary Rodham Clinton’s loss to Trump in some swing states. This year, the DNC is telling supporters of the far-left candidate that Trump is not an option in the close race to the White House.

“We’re reminding voters that Jill Stein delivered the White House for Trump in 2016, she doesn’t regret it and she wants to do it again,” said Adrienne Watson, a spokeswoman for the DNC. “And this time, Trump and Republicans are propping her up. That’s what is so disturbing and why we are being so proactive to tell voters what the risks are, how close the election is and that their vote counts.”
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I"ve read some other, older articles about how she is or may be pulling votes away from Harris in other swing states.
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WRT Jill Stein, I saw this posted on Facebook by a woman who was a high school classmate of hers whom I know. Interesting and sad. I think if she pulled out and endorsed Harris it might help but I am a bit skeptical. Her supporters might feel betrayed and vote for Trump. So I’m really not sure. I think in reality it’s too late for her to do anything.

I was a year ahead of Jill Stein in my high school. She was bright, had a girl band, don’t know what the heck happened to her. Even her kids have rejected her. You could say she’s the reason Hillary lost.

We are graduates of Highland Park High School in Highland Park, Illinois. You heard of our town on July 4, 2022, when our treasured annual Independence Day parade was disrupted by a shooter atop a roof on a precious downtown corner where we used to paint the windows for Homecoming to show our school spirit as the Class of ‘68.

Jill Stein was a member of our class. We knew her. We remember her on the talent show stage at HPHS singing gentle folk songs of peace with her long hair and her guitar. As you know, Jill left the Midwest, went out East for college, became a doctor, and later—in our view with no political experience or fitness to serve—started running for President of the United States as a third party candidate.

We know Jill Stein. We are not voting for Jill Stein. She is an elite and increasingly angry person we cannot and will not support.

We ask you not to squander your precious vote on Jill Stein but instead to use it to elect Kamala Harris as President. Kamala is experienced, highly fit to serve, will foster the interests of the middle class at home and peace on the world stage with integrity and strength…as a President for all.

There are only days left to save our democracy and every vote will matter. As leaders from our high school class—Jill’s class— we reject unfit leadership for our country. Please join us too and cast your vote for Kamala Harris.
Signed,
HPHS Class of ‘68 Leaders:
Michael Siegel/Class President
Bonny Beckerman Dolan/Class Social Chair
Kathy Morris, Varsity Club Secretary
William Brown, Alumni/ae Reunion Chair
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Tigers! said:
Spacetime Inhabitant said:
Colonel Sanders said:
pood said:
Colonel Sanders said:
It's not strange. It's a diminution of the things that white people go through too. When you essentially tell someone who's struggling that their struggle isn't real because other people have it worse then the response is going to be a gigantic Fuck You. And "Fuck you" is what Trump has inspired in these people.
Click to expand...
But Democrats aren’t telling white people that. If they somehow are hearing that, maybe they have been brainwashed by Fox News?
Colonel Sanders said:
I hate Trump with every fiber of my being. I hate what he's inspired, but what he did tap into was decades worth of dismissive ridicule at the hands of the left.
Click to expand...

It simply isn’t true that the “left,” whatever that is — it certainly is not mainstream Democrats — have dismissively ridiculed working-class white people. Maybe they THINK Democrats have done this, because for four decades Faux News has been TELLING them this.
Colonel Sanders said:
The vast, vast majority of white people aren't privileged. It's an absurd notion, and no one should be expected to tolerate absurdity of any kind. Throw in actual racism, shocking ignorance, and poor reading skills, and what you're going to get is the hate that Trump has so successfully tapped into.
Click to expand...
Throughout our history, white people have been racially privileged. That is true regardless of a white person’s economic status.

I see nothing willfully malicious in seeking a just society for all.
Click to expand...
Democrats have indeed done this. It sure isn't the Communist Party USA that has perpetuated it.

I went to college relatively late in life. I'd always dismissed conservative concerns about universities teaching wacky leftist nonsense. Well, it turns out there is some merit to that. I had to sit through a "Keystone"* course where the professor claimed Jamie Lee Curtis wasn't a woman and that "The white people in this very room" were oppressing POC simply by being white. That actually happened. Sociology was especially bad to the point that "soft racism" is an appropriate term to describe it.

It didn't cause me to retaliate by running to Fox News and voting Republican, but I did come away with a more informed understanding of what conservatives were talking about.

The term "white privilege" does come from the left and your comment that whites have always been privileged regardless of economic circumstances is exactly what I'm talking about. It is dismissive and woefully inaccurate.

Certainly Fox News and the shrieking dildo Rush Limbaugh that helped spawn FN shares a lot of the blame for us being on the brink of authoritarian conservatism. However, it's reasonable to wonder that had so many millions of white people not been so demeaned and ridiculed for no other reason than for being white, would we being fretting over battleground states right now where a few thousand votes may be the end of America's democracy.

As a liberal, it's easy and accurate to point out how awful Trumpism is, but the lack of self reflection pertaining to this issue may very well be the last little stone that helped tip the scales in favor of authoritarianism.

*To be fair, one of the Keystone courses wass about South American cultures and racial diversity. It was taught by an old guy anthropologist who dressed like Indiana Jones. I came away from that course feeling very enlightened on the subject. I appreciate that I was made to take that class. No one was bashed, no one was blamed. That's the way awareness and diversity should be taught.
Click to expand...
Claiming that Jamie Lee Curtis isn't a woman sounds like something a right-winger would say.
Click to expand...
You have indeed met some unusual right wingers. It's not the "right" that has trouble with defining what a woman is. It is the "left"
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No, it is always right-wingers asking "what is a woman"? They obviously don't know the answer, hence why they ask this question.

On a separate topic - about the attitudes of Democrats towards so-called "working class people". It is a no-win scenario. One shouldn't pander to the prejudices of various groups. If they can't be criticized then they see themselves as dictators towards the rest of society.
Most of these people aren't working class in the traditional sense of being manual workers who endure harsh conditions and are very poor.
Many of them have a good life, and are actually middle class. The ones who are more like the real working class are discriminated against by these people. By the way, that is also a generalization, as I am sure many rural people are friendly towards immigrants, and it is the bigotry of the Republican leaders that colours everyone's perceptions of what rural people and poorer city whites are like.
 
I think everyone should show their solidarity at this critical time. Whether you support Don-old or Kami, we all need to set our hair on fire this one last time before it becomes illegal.
 
jonatha said:
Tigers! said:
Rudeness and inconsiderateness are non-colour specific. At work I can meet rude Kiwis, Pacific islanders, Filipinoes, Poms, Sudanese, Aussies etc.
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I bet that etc. doesn't include any Canadians.... :-D
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Maybe one day, but this MAGA fever spread up north. When I was in Bruce Peninsula in 2022, drove by a home with a large handmade "Fuck you Trudeau" sign hanging from the garage. I was assuming he meant the Canadian leader, not the comic artist.
 
One thing to consider, Trump is campaigning heavy in Georgia. This is not evidence of a red wave. Trump's chances of winning the election are close to impossible if he loses Georgia. The fact that he is fighting in that state is good news for Harris. That means every time in Georgia is one less time up north. Harris doesn't need Georgia or North Carolina. We'd love them, but we don't have to have them.

Half of Trump's up coming rallies are in GA, NV, and AZ. Harris needs zero of these if she holds the north. Again, want them, but don't have to have them. Trump will then be heading to Michigan and Pennsylvania. Now, keep in mind that Trump was campaigning everywhere in 2016 too. But he didn't win 2016 in a wave. He barely won the EC at all. So, based on Trump's history or breaking conventions, a red wave seems improbably at the moment.
 
SLD said:
Gospel said:
Colonel Sanders said:
Certainly Fox News and the shrieking dildo Rush Limbaugh that helped spawn FN shares a lot of the blame for us being on the brink of authoritarian conservatism. However, it's reasonable to wonder that had so many millions of white people not been so demeaned and ridiculed for no other reason than for being white, would we being fretting over battleground states right now where a few thousand votes may be the end of America's democracy.
Click to expand...

Historically marginalized groups in America—whether Black, Indigenous, or immigrant communities—have not collectively sought to destroy the nation or its democracy. On the contrary, they've fought for equal treatment, civil rights, and inclusion under the same democratic principles America claims to stand for. Movements like the Civil Rights Movement and others have been about securing basic rights that were promised but denied, not about revenge or dismantling the country.

What you're describing, however, is a reaction from those who feel attacked for their identity. But we should question what that says about those people. Instead of seeking justice or fairness, there's a rush to undermine democracy itself. This shift towards authoritarianism isn’t about fairness, but a rejection of progress toward equality. The fact that people who feel 'demeaned' are willing to support leaders and policies that endanger democratic principles speaks volumes about their priorities. While marginalized communities have sought equality through democratic means, those defending this reaction seem to justify extreme measures in response to feeling unfairly criticized. Shouldn't that make us question their commitment to the ideals they claim are being threatened?
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I think both you and Colonel Sanders have valid points. In the end though, I think sometimes democrats forget that white redneck types vote. Economics is secondary for most people. Yet both working class whites and blacks should be natural allies. Of course politicians have always sought to divide people - especially in the southeast. The slave power drove secession in the late 1850's to 1861. They then forced poor whites to fight for their "rights" while exempting themselves from service so that they could stay at home and tend to their plantations - just so they could protect the white women.

It still goes on today in the South. Segregationists in the 50's and 60's were all about stoking these fears. Now it is just the dog whistle rather than the out and out racism of the past - but it's still fundamentally the same thing.

All that being said, democrats need to do a better job reaching out to working class white people. A constant barrage of criticism against them and their views isn't likely to work. I remember when Howard Dean was almost crucified for saying he wanted the vote of that guy with the pick up truck and the confederate flag. The democrats went on to lose the election after they didn't nominate him.

Instead understand that they feel displaced, but help them understand that their oppressor isn't the democratic party, but the republican party that uses them to vote against their own economic history. Work more to find their commonality with democratic policies. Paper over their differences. If you want them to change their views on things like race, then simply work with them. Eventually they'll come around. Don't make everything about race - even if it is.

As a sort of side note, I saw John Oliver crucify a white man who was arguing against a black man about what the civil war was about - i.e. slavery v. states rights. The white guy was saying his ancestors didn't fight for slavery and didn't own slaves. Oliver was really funny. He was also incredibly insensitive and stupid. Insulting people's ancestry doesn't work. The meaning of the civil war is irrelevant. Instead, had I been there, I would have asked the white guy and the black guy what they thought about how to reform social security so their benefits would be there throughout their lives?

If we did this, Trump would never come even close to winning.
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Politicians may exploit fears and anxieties, but ultimately, voters are the ones making choices—often to their own detriment. For example, many working-class white Americans continue to support a politician whose administration tried to allow businesses to seize tips from workers. That’s no small issue for those who rely on tips to make ends meet, yet they still back him enthusiastically.

This has less to do with Trump himself and everything to do with the voters' mindset. Trump has made it clear that his primary focus is on himself. Just look at his rallies—hours spent making things up and talking about his personal opinions of a specific voting block, instead of addressing the real issues affecting the hardworking Americans cheering him on, decked out in MAGA hats and waving flags. They soak it all up, even when he's clearly against their own interests.

When did undermining trusted alliances in favor of authoritarian regimes become a winning strategy for the U.S.?

Since when did downplaying a deadly pandemic become a strategy for protecting public health?

When did separating families and detaining children at the border become acceptable as a 'law and order' policy?

How does giving massive tax breaks to the wealthy help working-class Americans struggling to make ends meet?

I'll tell you when—it’s when hardworking white Americans started believing that. Politicians have always told us what they think we want to hear. No? Ok then.¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
Spacetime Inhabitant said:
Colonel Sanders said:
pood said:
Colonel Sanders said:
It's not strange. It's a diminution of the things that white people go through too. When you essentially tell someone who's struggling that their struggle isn't real because other people have it worse then the response is going to be a gigantic Fuck You. And "Fuck you" is what Trump has inspired in these people.
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But Democrats aren’t telling white people that. If they somehow are hearing that, maybe they have been brainwashed by Fox News?
Colonel Sanders said:
I hate Trump with every fiber of my being. I hate what he's inspired, but what he did tap into was decades worth of dismissive ridicule at the hands of the left.
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It simply isn’t true that the “left,” whatever that is — it certainly is not mainstream Democrats — have dismissively ridiculed working-class white people. Maybe they THINK Democrats have done this, because for four decades Faux News has been TELLING them this.
Colonel Sanders said:
The vast, vast majority of white people aren't privileged. It's an absurd notion, and no one should be expected to tolerate absurdity of any kind. Throw in actual racism, shocking ignorance, and poor reading skills, and what you're going to get is the hate that Trump has so successfully tapped into.
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Throughout our history, white people have been racially privileged. That is true regardless of a white person’s economic status.

I see nothing willfully malicious in seeking a just society for all.
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Democrats have indeed done this. It sure isn't the Communist Party USA that has perpetuated it.

I went to college relatively late in life. I'd always dismissed conservative concerns about universities teaching wacky leftist nonsense. Well, it turns out there is some merit to that. I had to sit through a "Keystone"* course where the professor claimed Jamie Lee Curtis wasn't a woman and that "The white people in this very room" were oppressing POC simply by being white. That actually happened. Sociology was especially bad to the point that "soft racism" is an appropriate term to describe it.

It didn't cause me to retaliate by running to Fox News and voting Republican, but I did come away with a more informed understanding of what conservatives were talking about.

The term "white privilege" does come from the left and your comment that whites have always been privileged regardless of economic circumstances is exactly what I'm talking about. It is dismissive and woefully inaccurate.

Certainly Fox News and the shrieking dildo Rush Limbaugh that helped spawn FN shares a lot of the blame for us being on the brink of authoritarian conservatism. However, it's reasonable to wonder that had so many millions of white people not been so demeaned and ridiculed for no other reason than for being white, would we being fretting over battleground states right now where a few thousand votes may be the end of America's democracy.

As a liberal, it's easy and accurate to point out how awful Trumpism is, but the lack of self reflection pertaining to this issue may very well be the last little stone that helped tip the scales in favor of authoritarianism.

*To be fair, one of the Keystone courses wass about South American cultures and racial diversity. It was taught by an old guy anthropologist who dressed like Indiana Jones. I came away from that course feeling very enlightened on the subject. I appreciate that I was made to take that class. No one was bashed, no one was blamed. That's the way awareness and diversity should be taught.
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Claiming that Jamie Lee Curtis isn't a woman sounds like something a right-winger would say. Also, even if the professor made those claims about whites and POC does not mean that he was a leftist. It is certainly not a leftist position. Also one can't judge a whole class of people based on what one person says or does. He might have been a provocateur.
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It was a female professor and that wasn't the only thing that class was about. I used that particular issue to describe that class in microcosm. The entire course was an exercise in enduring absurdity; and make no mistake about it, this was a leftist professor painting things in a shockingly one dimensional manner.
 
The thing is, though, that your professor saying that white people in the room were oppressing POC in the room simply by being white is just NOT something that anyone in the Democratic Party is saying, and certainly not Biden or Harris. It IS something Fox News and other right-wing media sewers are TELLING their viewers that the Democratic Party is saying.
 
[Rant]

I'm not sure if this matters, but I do agree that white privilege exists. That said, I don't believe every white person benefits from it equally. It's like when my best friend Justin told me, 'Bruh, you’ve got soul! Why don’t you get out there and dance with the ladies? I always end up embarrassing myself.' Sure, I might have soul, but that doesn’t mean I’ve got game. In the end, after killing it on the floor, I walked out just as girlfriendless as he did. Privilege, like rhythm, doesn't guarantee success, but it does give you an advantage you didn't necessarily earn. You can capitalize on it, build upon it, but it was there from the start without any effort on your part.

Considering how the U.S. government (both state and federal) treated Black people under the law in the so-called 'good old days' that Trump idealizes, you can count yourself privileged for not having to experience America through the lens of its history, where people who looked like you were once lawfully mistreated in ways no one should endure. Meanwhile, we still deal with the lingering effects of that legacy, particularly within law enforcement, and as a community, were we're often expected to be held accountable for the actions of others who simply share our skin color—while the white community have the privilege to dismiss their own as 'white trash' and walk away.

Obviously, I don’t feel obligated to help someone just because they’re Black anymore. I used to think that way—society gave me that impression. The statistics say I’m supposed to end up doing this or that, so I felt I had to take action to keep those numbers from being used against me. But in the end, that didn’t change much. Our community is still dealing with generational trauma that white people have the privilege to ignore, while they shift the blame onto us, as if centuries of pain suddenly vanished on June 19, 1865. :rolleyes:

I enjoy seeing white people celebrate their history, and I can recognize the traces of historical trauma woven into their culture. From my perspective, it comes across as a mix of pride, sorrow, and guilt. Not very different from mine, but let’s be clear—Black people aren’t responsible for your mutha-fucking guilt or the ability anyone may have to wield it against you. Take that shit up with the Confederacy. :ROFLMAO:


[End Rant]
 
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