Trump Will Likely Win

[Toni]

Why? Why is it so close? Is it really because of those evil, evil Palestinians refusing to cast a vote for genocide?

Certainly in places like Michigan where there are a lot of Muslims and where the vote is incredibly close.
Dearborn "Death to America" crowd may well give the presidency to Trump.

Besides, those evil, evil Palestinians do not have a problem with genocide. They have a problem with Jews not allowing Muslims to genocide them. They have a problem with Jews defending themselves from aggression and massacres.
They had no problem with what happened on 10/7, just with Israel striking Hamas in response. They do not have a problem with Hezbollah launching thousands of rockets at Israel, only with Israel striking Hezbollah back.
They do not have a problem with the Tehran regime arming terrorists, but have a problem with US sending weapons to Israel.

Or is it because middle class white males almost to a man are loyal to a fascist demagogue?

Really? To you, "white males" are the root of all problems, right?

"Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel!"

Depends on how the camel is cooked.

The muslim population of Michigan is something like 2.4%.

 

[Derec]

Right now the odds very much favor Trump winning all the states from 2020 and adding Georgia and Arizona. This makes Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania all must win for Harris. And all three of these are very close, basically toss ups if not slightly favoring Trump in the latest polling.

Especially PA makes me nervous. She should have went with Shapiro. I do not see Walz bringing much to the ticket, except for the jokes, and if she wanted that, she should have went for another Minnesotan. You know, the one who is good enough, who is smart enough, and doggone it, people like him.

On the other hand, Trump has been spending a lot of time in Georgia. That means his team does not think it's a lock. In 2020, Georgia was a bonus state for Biden anyway. That Trump has to fight hard for it in 2024 is good.

Polls do matter. They aren't everything, but they offer the most objective piece of information we have available to evaluate the likelihood of a Trump or Harris victory. There is a strong historical correlation between polling data and the eventual winner this close to the election.

I think two things about polls are most decisive. One is the polling average. By combining different polls with different methodologies, it helps smooth out the assumptions made in their models. The second are trends. If the same poll, conducted the same way, moves one way or another, that tells us a lot - even if the methodology overstates one group and understates another and is thus not a good point estimate, the movement using the same methodology is probably real because the two polls should be off in the same way (except for random sampling error) which cancels the non-random error when just looking at the Δ. And if two or more polls move in the same direction, it's hard to argue they are all flukes.

I am mentally preparing for a Trump victory and you should to. If he doesn't win, that will be fantastic, but let's not delude ourselves about the very real possibility Trump will win this.

Unless something major drops in the next 10 days, it will be a nail biter, no doubt.

 

[Derec]

The muslim population of Michigan is something like 2.4%.

More than enough to swing a close race to Trump.

 

[Derec]

Derec, Texas and New York have a higher percentage of Muslims in its population than does Michigan.

Michigan is a close battleground state. Texas and New York are not. Also your information seems wrong. Where did you get it from?

What is also important what kind of Muslims they are. I know Minnesota has a metric shitton of Somalis, for example. Michigan has Arabs, which tend to be more concerned about Palestinian issues for obvious reasons.

Note that I looked up  Demographics of New York (state). It says 2% are Muslim, i.e. not higher than Michigan. No Arab country is in the top for immigration, nor is Arabic among the top languages spoken.
Texas is only 1% Muslim, according to wikipedia. At least Arabic rates as language, with 0.21%. And again, Texas is not a close battleground state.

Michigan has had a significant cluster of Arab immigration for many years, some of whom are Muslim and some who are Christian. Immigrants from Lebanon ( mostly Christian) arrived in MI in the middle of the 19th century.

And many of them are radicalized. I posted the clip of the Dearbornistan rally where they chanted "Death to America" and praised Ayatollah Khomeini many times. Do you need to see it again? Just say the word!

 

[Derec]

Historically marginalized groups in America—whether Black, Indigenous, or immigrant communities—have not collectively sought to destroy the nation or its democracy.

To add to my other post, this wording is significant. "Historically marginalized". Activists pretend that historical conditions still apply today.

On the contrary, they've fought for equal treatment, civil rights, and inclusion under the same democratic principles America claims to stand for.

Many have. But there also have been supremacist and separatist movements.

Movements like the Civil Rights Movement and others have been about securing basic rights that were promised but denied, not about revenge or dismantling the country.

The civil rights movement is not all the same. You have people like MLK Jr. on one side, but also Black Panthers (who, btw. wanted to dismantle the country and replace it with a Maoist dictatorship), Nation of Islam, Republic of New Afrika[sic] (which wanted the US Southeast to secede from the US as a blacks-only sovereign country) on the other. Malcolm Little (alias Malik el-Shabazz alias Malcolm X), much admired these days, was a black supremacist before he became a Muslim supremacist. Cassius Clay (nom de guerre: Mohammed Ali) was an unabashed racist, but that aspect of his life and personality has been thoroughly whitewashed (no pun intended) and he is even referred to as "civil rights activists" by the fawning media. Louis Farrakhan is a racist and anti-Semite, but that does stop Democratic politicians to cavort with him - imagine if Republicans took photos with David Duke et al. Al Sharpton is a racist and homophobe, but he was a frequent guest at the Obama White House and has a multimillion gig at MSNBC. For all its sins, nobody quite this hateful has a gig at Fox News.
So yes, there is a definite double standard in how race is handled by US society, and we will not move forward until this is rectified. And the #BLM movement, culminating in the race riots of 2020, set race relations back decades.

What you're describing, however, is a reaction from those who feel attacked for their identity.

I think that he is right that whites, and especially cis-straight white men, are being attacked by the left as "oppressors". There is a lot of political correctness there. History of European countries is heavily scrutinized, for example the slave trade, but Arab and African countries are largely given a pass for the same history.
I reject Trump or the authoritarians in Europe. But I understand why some people are driven in their direction by the Left.

 

[Toni]

Derec, Texas and New York have a higher percentage of Muslims in its population than does Michigan.

Michigan is a close battleground state. Texas and New York are not. Also your information seems wrong. Where did you get it from?

What is also important what kind of Muslims they are. I know Minnesota has a metric shitton of Somalis, for example. Michigan has Arabs, which tend to be more concerned about Palestinian issues for obvious reasons.

Note that I looked up  Demographics of New York (state). It says 2% are Muslim, i.e. not higher than Michigan. No Arab country is in the top for immigration, nor is Arabic among the top languages spoken.
Texas is only 1% Muslim, according to wikipedia. At least Arabic rates as language, with 0.21%. And again, Texas is not a close battleground state.

Michigan has had a significant cluster of Arab immigration for many years, some of whom are Muslim and some who are Christian. Immigrants from Lebanon ( mostly Christian) arrived in MI in the middle of the 19th century.

And many of them are radicalized. I posted the clip of the Dearbornistan rally where they chanted "Death to America" and praised Ayatollah Khomeini many times. Do you need to see it again? Just say the word!

Ah, I did a quick search on my phone while in the grocery store parking lot in the middle of texting with one of my kids who is coming home for the weekend and making adjustments to my shopping list and thinking why why why don't people understand that arriving an entire day early is a lot of extra hustle for old people #firstworldproblems and my iphone gave the percentage of Muslims in NY as around 3%.

You do seem to interchange Arab and Muslim although they are not the same thing at all. I've known a fair number of Arabs who were Christian and some white people whose great grandpas were born here who converted to Islam.

Outside of the greater Detroit metropolitan area, there are not many Arabs or Muslims.

 

[Derec]

Ah, I did a quick search on my phone while in the grocery store parking lot in the middle of texting with one of my kids who is coming home for the weekend and making adjustments to my shopping list and thinking why why why don't people understand that arriving an entire day early is a lot of extra hustle for old people #firstworldproblems and my iphone gave the percentage of Muslims in NY as around 3%.

You should not use loaded hashtags as a source. In any case, whether 2% or 3%, NY is not a battleground state. NY Muslims cannot tank Harris. MI Muslims can.

You do seem to interchange Arab and Muslim although they are not the same thing at all.

I am not. I consciously separated them.
Different Muslim populations have different concerns. Arab Muslims are more concerned with Gaza than say Somali Muslims or say black American "jailhouse" Muslims. And there tend to be many Arabs in Michigan specifically.

I've known a fair number of Arabs who were Christian and some white people whose great grandpas were born here who converted to Islam.

Of course, there are some converts. I cannot grok why anybody would convert to Islam of all possible religions, but it happens.

Outside of the greater Detroit metropolitan area, there are not many Arabs or Muslims.

But there are a lot of them in places like Dearbornistan and Hamtrackabad to have essentially taken over those towns.

 

[Gospel]

Bruh, you know how I feel about you right?


But you know, I’m admin now, so I’ve got to play it by the book and hold myself to a higher standard.

For the last few decades, blacks and Latinos have had privilege when it comes to access to education. They could get into university or into professional schools such as med schools with significantly lower grades and scores than their white and Asian classmates. How is that not an example of privilege? Why are we still repeating the myth that blacks and Latinos face barriers when they do not?
Criminal justice is another complex issue. Yes, more blacks are incarcerated, but blacks also commit more crime on a per-capita basis. ~5x as much "non-negligent homicide" according to FBI, and higher rates of other violent crime like rape and robbery as well.

Derec, jokes aside, I appreciate your engagement. The issue of privilege is nuanced, and I think it’s important to recognize that affirmative action and similar programs were designed to correct longstanding imbalances. These programs provided minorities with access to institutions they were historically excluded from, but this doesn't erase other systemic barriers they face outside education—like historical bias in the workforce & housing. While privilege in this context often gets reduced to a single area like education, it’s really about the broader impact race has across multiple aspects of life.

Regarding criminal justice, it’s true that Black communities see disproportionately higher crime rates, but that statistic alone doesn’t tell the full story. We can’t ignore the role systemic factors—like poverty, over-policing, and lack of opportunity—play in increasing the disparities. It’s not that Black people inherently commit more crime, but their circumstances often increase the likelihood of interaction with the justice system. Tackling the root causes of this issue—inequality in education, economic opportunities, and biased policing—is key to finding solutions. And let’s not forget how slavery disrupted the Black family structure in ways we’re still recovering from today. Generations had their identities, families, and even language stripped away. Our community is still finding its footing after that unique experience, much like America’s democracy has gone through growing pains and still seeks stability today. One clue lies in the fact that many of us still discipline our children primarily through violence.

What it means though, is that situation from decades or even a century ago ("traditionally underprivileged") is taken as something that still applies today, even if it doesn't.

I agree that we shouldn't assume conditions today are the same as they were decades ago. However, systemic barriers don’t disappear overnight. While we’ve made progress, the lingering effects of past discrimination—in housing, employment, and education—are still felt today. Disparities persist not only because of history but also because current systems continue to subtly perpetuate inequality. And no, I absolutely do not believe things are as bad as there were in the "good ole days" /s.

I personally recognize that we, the Black community, have come a long way in our contributions and relationships with other communities. We’re not there yet. And while I don’t speak for everyone, hypothetically, I ask that other communities continue to show patience. The trauma from centuries of slavery in America is still passed down through our families. It shows in the way we discipline our children, the way some of us still talk down to one another, the doubts we harbor about our own worth. Peer pressure, too, plays a role—when you’re told you're ‘playing into the oppressor’s hands’ by cooperating with authority, it creates internal conflict. These behaviors and mentalities are still very much alive in parts of our community today.

We should not generalize of course, but the activists fighting for things like perpetual racial preferences or for reparations by race definitely want more than just "fight treatment under the law". I support that part, but reject the special treatment.

I agree with you that we shouldn’t generalize, but I’d argue that most people advocating for reparations or racial preferences aren’t looking to punish white Americans. They’re seeking redress for historical wrongs and trying to level a playing field that remains skewed, in their view. I tend to agree with this because it seems America has done more for other historical wrongs than it has for its treatment of Black Americans. There’s certainly debate about the best way to achieve fairness, and while I agree racial preferences are no longer the ideal solution, it’s important to recognize that real activists are attempting to address imbalance, not seek retribution.

Equity, on the other hand does. Equity says, wait, there are too few blacks in med school. We should give black applicants a preference in admissions so we have more black doctors. The correct approach would be to identify why black students are lagging behind and help them perform better, which starts before formal schooling begins frankly. But giving a preference based on race is easier and quicker, even if it does nothing about the underlying problem. In fact, it may make it worse. Why apply yourself in undergrad if you know your race will help you get in with relatively mediocre grades and scores?

You raise a great point in distinguishing between equality and equity. Equity recognizes that some groups, due to historical and systemic barriers, may need more support to truly have a fair shot. You’re right that the focus should be on improving education and building better pathways to success. However, racial preferences were never meant to create a shortcut but rather to address the unfair disadvantages that Black students from less privileged backgrounds often face. Moving forward, I think we should tackle the root problems—like early childhood education and access to resources—while ensuring no citizen is negatively impacted in the process (like what some applying affirmative action have done some cases).

We agree there. But the problem is that race warriors hang on to racial preferences for dear life.

I’m glad we agree that equal opportunity is the ultimate goal, and it seems race-based preferences may have run their course. The real challenge now is figuring out how we move forward together. We both believe in fair treatment for all Americans, and it’s imperative (at least to me) that we ensure everyone plays by the same rules without arbitrary barriers holding anyone back.

Agreed.

Thank you for your honesty and contribution Derec.

 

[Toni]

Historically marginalized groups in America—whether Black, Indigenous, or immigrant communities—have not collectively sought to destroy the nation or its democracy.

To add to my other post, this wording is significant. "Historically marginalized". Activists pretend that historical conditions still apply today.

On the contrary, they've fought for equal treatment, civil rights, and inclusion under the same democratic principles America claims to stand for.

Many have. But there also have been supremacist and separatist movements.

Movements like the Civil Rights Movement and others have been about securing basic rights that were promised but denied, not about revenge or dismantling the country.

The civil rights movement is not all the same. You have people like MLK Jr. on one side, but also Black Panthers, Nation of Islam, Republic of New Afrika[sic] on the other. Malcolm Little (alias Malik el-Shabazz alias Malcolm X), much admired these days, was a black supremacist before he became a Muslim supremacist. Cassius Clay (nom de guerre: Mohammed Ali) was an unabashed racist, but that aspect of his life and personality has been thoroughly whitewashed (no pun intended).

What you're describing, however, is a reaction from those who feel attacked for their identity.

I think that he is right that whites, and especially cis-straight white men, are being attacked by the left as "oppressors". There is a lot of political correctness there. History of European countries is heavily scrutinized, for example the slave trade, but Arab and African countries are largely given a pass for the same history.
I reject Trump or the authoritarians in Europe. But I understand why some people are driven in their direction by the Left.

I am not a cis white male but I sure am related to a whole lot of them and AFAIK none of them feel attacked as oppressors. I think that's a bit of propaganda ginned up to sew division. I will concede that there is a small portion of cis white males who feel oppressed because they are no longer in the front of the line for all good things as they have been for many many many generations. For some of them that feels like oppression. In a way, I get it. My parents grew up poor in the Great Depression when poor meant something much different than it does today in the USA. They had very few opportunities growing up and in fact, my grandfather tried to force my father to drop out of high school to help more on the farm. My father only stayed in school to spite his father. But learned the lesson that there was indeed a very serious ceiling of achievement he could reach without that college degree, at the point in his life where he considered it too late to try to take night classes as his own kids were heading off to college. So for people like that and I will include a lot of working class white people who struggle to get ahead, seeing programs designed specifically to help non-whites and non-males, who until very recently were always at the back of the line for jobs, nice neighborhoods, mortgages, etc. like they are the ones facing discrimination. I know very well how tough my parents had it. I also know it would have been nearly impossible for them to achieve what they did achieve if they had not been white. But still: I have family members I love a great deal who are 'stuck' in not great jobs. But I also know that a big part of their 'stuckness' is because they are very risk averse and also introverted --so extra risk averse and just struggle with not getting what they reach for. OTOH, I think I turned in 40+ applications to the place where I retired from before I was hired. What is the difference between them and me? Not a college degree. Almost certainly that I am extremely stubborn and very very very determined to get my foot in the door--which I eventually did by temping for the place I wanted to work at. I wanted that particular employer because I knew it would pay more than any other place within driving distance--and that driving distance was an hour on good roads (i.e. not winter). I know people who refused to apply there because they didn't want to make that drive nor did they want to move closer. Cis white males, every single one. Does that actually mean anything? Probably not. But maybe it does.

 

[Gospel]

Anyway, to get back on topic and steer away from the side tangent, Trump does have a chance of winning, though for all the wrong reasons.

 

[Toni]

Ah, I did a quick search on my phone while in the grocery store parking lot in the middle of texting with one of my kids who is coming home for the weekend and making adjustments to my shopping list and thinking why why why don't people understand that arriving an entire day early is a lot of extra hustle for old people #firstworldproblems and my iphone gave the percentage of Muslims in NY as around 3%.

You should not use loaded hashtags as a source. In any case, whether 2% or 3%, NY is not a battleground state. NY Muslims cannot tank Harris. MI Muslims can.

You do seem to interchange Arab and Muslim although they are not the same thing at all.

I am not. I consciously separated them.
Different Muslim populations have different concerns. Arab Muslims are more concerned with Gaza than say Somali Muslims or say black American "jailhouse" Muslims. And there tend to be many Arabs in Michigan specifically.

I've known a fair number of Arabs who were Christian and some white people whose great grandpas were born here who converted to Islam.

Of course, there are some converts. I cannot grok why anybody would convert to Islam of all possible religions, but it happens.

Outside of the greater Detroit metropolitan area, there are not many Arabs or Muslims.

But there are a lot of them in places like Dearbornistan and Hamtrackabad to have essentially taken over those towns.

MI Muslims are unlikely to tank Harris. I did not use loaded hashtags or any hashtags except the one I invented in my reply to you.

Do you know anything about the history of Dearborn or Hamtramack or Michigan? Especially with respect to Muslims and Arabs? When Ford began his automaking in the Detroit area, the industry attracted many people from the south as well as many from Eastern Europe and Arab countries, although there was already a significant Arab presence in that part of Michigan. They tended to settle in Dearborn and Hamtramack (which was largely eastern European immigrants). The reason that they continued to stay and grow in population is because of racism and redlining: I used to live in the suburbs of Detroit 40 years ago and I can tell you from my time looking for rental housing and later looking to purchase our first home: redlining was definitely a thing. My realtor definitely steered me towards neighborhoods that were white--something I did not fully understand at first. In fact, this being Before Times when there was no internet, I constantly scanned real estate listings in my (print) newspaper and I was the one who found the home we purchased in a relatively mixed neighborhood and let her knw we were going to the openhouse. She handled the purchase for us but never would she ever have steered us into that subdivision that had a mix of Jews, Arabs, Asians and a tiny handful of black families in predominately white neighborhood that nonetheless was less white than the one where we were renting our house. Now, 40 years ago seems like a lifetime (probably is a lifetime) ago for you but not for me. AFAIK, it is still difficult for people with darker skin tones or certain accents to move into the northern suburbs of Detroit.

There was a tremendous amount of bigotry against Arab Americans who were not Muslim but Christian, even more so in some places than against black Americans. When we sold our home to move to our current state, the older couple across the street begged us not to sell to Arab Americans saying that even a black family would be preferable. Of course, we ignored that and as it happens we had to move before that house sold (market everywhere bottomed out that summer) and never met the people who bought our house or knew anything about them aside from the fact that they qualified for the mortgage so we no longer had 2 mortgages.

So: Arab Americans who settled in Dearborn had relatively little opportunity to move into the newer, whiter suburbs. Hamtramack was largely Polish American but being white, Polish Americans had an easier time moving to other less working class suburbs as they prospered, leaving relatively inexpensive housing available for many more immigrants from South Asia and Arabic countries.

At least during the time we lived in the Detroit area, there were very serious divisions by color and ethnic background as far as neighborhoods and schools went. We had moved there from the Wash. D.C. from a very international student housing situation so seeing greater rigidity was rather shocking. I was young and naive and thought that such racism was mostly confined to my Midwestern hometown and the Deep South. I was wrong.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Especially PA makes me nervous. She should have went with Shapiro.

since I know you care about language I would like to point out that it is “have gone”. That phrase “have went” is grating to my ears and one of my greater pet peeves.

 

[Derec]

Mea culpa, Shadowy.

 

[Politesse]

Why? Why is it so close? Is it really because of those evil, evil Palestinians refusing to cast a vote for genocide?

Certainly in places like Michigan where there are a lot of Muslims and where the vote is incredibly close.
Dearborn "Death to America" crowd may well give the presidency to Trump.

Besides, those evil, evil Palestinians do not have a problem with genocide. They have a problem with Jews not allowing Muslims to genocide them. They have a problem with Jews defending themselves from aggression and massacres.
They had no problem with what happened on 10/7, just with Israel striking Hamas in response. They do not have a problem with Hezbollah launching thousands of rockets at Israel, only with Israel striking Hezbollah back.
They do not have a problem with the Tehran regime arming terrorists, but have a problem with US sending weapons to Israel.

Or is it because middle class white males almost to a man are loyal to a fascist demagogue?

Really? To you, "white males" are the root of all problems, right?

"Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel!"

Depends on how the camel is cooked.

The muslim population of Michigan is something like 2.4%.

I heard everyone in Detroit belongs to Black muslim gangs who dress in drag and eat cats.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Why? Why is it so close? Is it really because of those evil, evil Palestinians refusing to cast a vote for genocide?

Certainly in places like Michigan where there are a lot of Muslims and where the vote is incredibly close.
Dearborn "Death to America" crowd may well give the presidency to Trump.

Besides, those evil, evil Palestinians do not have a problem with genocide. They have a problem with Jews not allowing Muslims to genocide them. They have a problem with Jews defending themselves from aggression and massacres.
They had no problem with what happened on 10/7, just with Israel striking Hamas in response. They do not have a problem with Hezbollah launching thousands of rockets at Israel, only with Israel striking Hezbollah back.
They do not have a problem with the Tehran regime arming terrorists, but have a problem with US sending weapons to Israel.

Or is it because middle class white males almost to a man are loyal to a fascist demagogue?

Really? To you, "white males" are the root of all problems, right?

"Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel!"

Depends on how the camel is cooked.

The muslim population of Michigan is something like 2.4%.

I heard everyone in Detroit belongs to Black muslim gangs who dress in drag and eat cats.

And read stories to children!

 

[Elixir]

You raise a great point in distinguishing between equality and equity. Equity recognizes that some groups, due to historical and systemic barriers, may need more support to truly have a fair shot. You’re right that the focus should be on improving education and building better pathways to success.

That’s what we hear from the “soft racists” who offer sympathies but refuse to help. When it comes to breaking ground on any “better pathways” they always argue that existing pathways are more than sufficient, that “new pathways” that are more accessible to suppressed groups are racist, and hold up the success of the upper class as proof that those groups just need to get with the program.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

[Rant]

I'm not sure if this matters, but I do agree that white privilege exists. That said, I don't believe every white person benefits from it equally. It's like when my best friend Justin told me, 'Bruh, you’ve got soul! Why don’t you get out there and dance with the ladies? I always end up embarrassing myself.' Sure, I might have soul, but that doesn’t mean I’ve got game. In the end, after killing it on the floor, I walked out just as girlfriendless as he did. Privilege, like rhythm, doesn't guarantee success, but it does give you an advantage you didn't necessarily earn. You can capitalize on it, build upon it, but it was there from the start without any effort on your part.

Considering how the U.S. government (both state and federal) treated Black people under the law in the so-called 'good old days' that Trump idealizes, you can count yourself privileged for not having to experience America through the lens of its history, where people who looked like you were once lawfully mistreated in ways no one should endure. Meanwhile, we still deal with the lingering effects of that legacy, particularly within law enforcement, and as a community, were we're often expected to be held accountable for the actions of others who simply share our skin color—while the white community have the privilege to dismiss their own as 'white trash' and walk away.

There unquestionably was a major issue of white privilege. The question is whether it's still an important factor.

Obviously, I don’t feel obligated to help someone just because they’re Black anymore. I used to think that way—society gave me that impression. The statistics say I’m supposed to end up doing this or that, so I felt I had to take action to keep those numbers from being used against me. But in the end, that didn’t change much. Our community is still dealing with generational trauma that white people have the privilege to ignore, while they shift the blame onto us, as if centuries of pain suddenly vanished on June 19, 1865.

But "generational trauma" is not discrimination and it is not white privilege. And trauma can't be fixed by throwing money at it.

I enjoy seeing white people celebrate their history, and I can recognize the traces of historical trauma woven into their culture. From my perspective, it comes across as a mix of pride, sorrow, and guilt. Not very different from mine, but let’s be clear—Black people aren’t responsible for your mutha-fucking guilt or the ability anyone may have to wield it against you. Take that shit up with the Confederacy.

I see no point in white history or black history or whatever. The people involved often were important in the time but looking back at history what we should learn from is societies. Most "important" individuals in history were far more a matter of something was ripe to happen and they were the lucky (or unlucky) one that it happened to. And, yes, there is far more "white" history around than "black" history--because far more records were kept. More technology to keep records, an environment much less destructive of records.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

[Rant]

I'm not sure if this matters, but I do agree that white privilege exists. That said, I don't believe every white person benefits from it equally. It's like when my best friend Justin told me, 'Bruh, you’ve got soul! Why don’t you get out there and dance with the ladies? I always end up embarrassing myself.' Sure, I might have soul, but that doesn’t mean I’ve got game. In the end, after killing it on the floor, I walked out just as girlfriendless as he did. Privilege, like rhythm, doesn't guarantee success, but it does give you an advantage you didn't necessarily earn. You can capitalize on it, build upon it, but it was there from the start without any effort on your part.

Considering how the U.S. government (both state and federal) treated Black people under the law in the so-called 'good old days' that Trump idealizes, you can count yourself privileged for not having to experience America through the lens of its history, where people who looked like you were once lawfully mistreated in ways no one should endure. Meanwhile, we still deal with the lingering effects of that legacy, particularly within law enforcement, and as a community, were we're often expected to be held accountable for the actions of others who simply share our skin color—while the white community have the privilege to dismiss their own as 'white trash' and walk away.

There unquestionably was a major issue of white privilege. The question is whether it's still an important factor.

Obviously, I don’t feel obligated to help someone just because they’re Black anymore. I used to think that way—society gave me that impression. The statistics say I’m supposed to end up doing this or that, so I felt I had to take action to keep those numbers from being used against me. But in the end, that didn’t change much. Our community is still dealing with generational trauma that white people have the privilege to ignore, while they shift the blame onto us, as if centuries of pain suddenly vanished on June 19, 1865.

But "generational trauma" is not discrimination and it is not white privilege. And trauma can't be fixed by throwing money at it.

You can't fix roads and bridges by just throwing money at transportation!

 

[Loren Pechtel]

even at the cost of undermining our democracy.

Huh?
That’s actually the point.
Democracy is what threatens to depose them. “Retribution” against imaginary enemies is simply cover for doing what’s needed to prevent overturning the institution of white supremacy. And democracy is the main thing threatening it at this juncture.

Objection. White supremacy has been overturned, they're trying to wind the clock back.

 

[Elixir]

White supremacy has been overturned,

Uh, a lot of Trumpsuckers think not. They believe that Dolt45 is going to lead them out of the valley of the shadow death of white supremacy, into the Elysian Fields of golden haired, blue eyed prosperity.