1st presidential debate 2016

[GenesisNemesis]

None of that would have any reflection on Trump but on the broken taxation system in the US.

I imagine the Clintons get similar tax advantages.

Your imagination is obviously a flawed source:

In 2015, the Clintons paid an effective federal income tax rate of 34.2 percent and an effective state and local income tax rate of 9 percent for a combined federal, state, and local effective tax rate of 43.2 percent. They donated 9.8 percent of their adjusted gross income to charity.

If Trump had paid anywhere near that, he'd be touting himself from the rooftops right now, instead of lauding his intelligence for paying ZERO.
Oh, wait - he's already touting himself from the rooftops... never mind.

And by the way, maybe the infrastructure would be in better shape if people like him paid more taxes. He's just a total hypocrite.

 

[laughing dog]

Your imagination is extremely limited. I know a number of republicans and conservatives who are seriously considering voting for Clinton. One of the reasons is they think Trump is a blowhard chickenshit who will not stand up against our enemies. Their evidence? His refusal to release his tax returns and his medical records.

Neocons for Hillary is hardly a point in her favor.

It is if their votes help her win instead of Trump.

 

[Shadowy Man]

People would only care if Trump pays a much lower effective rate in taxes than they are. Which, to his omission, he has gone at least a couple years without paying any federal income taxes, which seems absurd for someone who is allegedly a billionaire.

Trump, referring to his idiotic interruption when Hillary said that for at least two years he didn't pay any taxes: "I didn't say I didn't pay any taxes, I said 'that would make me smart.'"
Fucking liar. He actually said "That makes me smart".
Could he be any more stupid? Why do the media give him a pass on lies like that? Why do brain-dead Trumpsters think nobody cares about how much he lies?

Emphasis mine.

That's exactly what he said and it was him basically boasting that he paid no taxes. He is saying that it is better to pay no taxes and if he can take advantage of all the loopholes and tax laws that basically favor the rich then he'll do it.

The only tax breaks I get are related to my mortgage and my children. I'd never be able to reduce my tax burden to zero without having a truckload of children I couldn't afford to feed, gambling away all my income or selling my house at a massive loss. The average person would be in financial ruin in order to pay no taxes. I doubt Trump was.

 

[Angry Floof]

He's the only candidate to ever brag about being a parasite on the very people who support him for President.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

None of that would have any reflection on Trump but on the broken taxation system in the US.

I imagine the Clintons get similar tax advantages.

That's true. Income tax has nothing to do with wealth. Bringing up Trump's supposed billion dollar worth is a strawman. Income tax is a levy on the adjusted income for the tax year, not wealth that one controls. The 74,608-page-long federal tax code written by our congress critters is riddled with "incentives" and "tax breaks" to benefit their backers (and themselves). But since the "incentives and tax breaks" are law, anyone can take advantage of them - it is just that most people can't read through that ever changing tax code and understand it.

Anyone who really wants a "fair" tax system should advocate scrapping the current tax code and passing a flat tax or even for passage of HR-25 (the "fair tax act").

How does a flat tax help prevent this? You can have a progressive tax rate schedule and still remove all of the potential deductions that a Trump takes advantage of.

People would only care if Trump pays a much lower effective rate in taxes than they are.

None of that would have any reflection on Trump but on the broken taxation system in the US.

I imagine the Clintons get similar tax advantages.

We've seen Clintons' tax reports. We know exactly what they paid. Trump is portraying the role of a hero to the working man, yet games the system and pays a lower effective rate than people that work hard every day. He is a con artist.

 

[skepticalbip]

That's true. Income tax has nothing to do with wealth. Bringing up Trump's supposed billion dollar worth is a strawman. Income tax is a levy on the adjusted income for the tax year, not wealth that one controls. The 74,608-page-long federal tax code written by our congress critters is riddled with "incentives" and "tax breaks" to benefit their backers (and themselves). But since the "incentives and tax breaks" are law, anyone can take advantage of them - it is just that most people can't read through that ever changing tax code and understand it.

Anyone who really wants a "fair" tax system should advocate scrapping the current tax code and passing a flat tax or even for passage of HR-25 (the "fair tax act").

How does a flat tax help prevent this? You can have a progressive tax rate schedule and still remove all of the potential deductions that a Trump takes advantage of.

You apparently don't understand what a flat tax is. A flat tax can be progressive with as many progressive brackets as someone wants to put in it. What the flat tax does is eliminate all deductions, loopholes, incentives, etc. and taxes the gross income. It is a "flat tax" because any two people in the same income tax bracket will pay the same percentage of their gross income as tax.

Personally, I think the tax system outlined in HR-25 is much, much better than the current insane tax code and much better than a flat tax even though a flat tax would be better than what we have now.

 

[RavenSky]

Trump, referring to his idiotic interruption when Hillary said that for at least two years he didn't pay any taxes: "I didn't say I didn't pay any taxes, I said 'that would make me smart.'"
Fucking liar. He actually said "That makes me smart".
Could he be any more stupid? Why do the media give him a pass on lies like that? Why do brain-dead Trumpsters think nobody cares about how much he lies?

Emphasis mine.

That's exactly what he said and it was him basically boasting that he paid no taxes. He is saying that it is better to pay no taxes and if he can take advantage of all the loopholes and tax laws that basically favor the rich then he'll do it.

The only tax breaks I get are related to my mortgage and my children. I'd never be able to reduce my tax burden to zero without having a truckload of children I couldn't afford to feed, gambling away all my income or selling my house at a massive loss. The average person would be in financial ruin in order to pay no taxes. I doubt Trump was.

If it makes him so "smart" - how come he has been audited every year for 15 years (according to him)

- - - Updated - - -

He's the only candidate to ever brag about being a parasite on the very people who support him for President.

There needs to be a meme calling him the real welfare queen

 

[RavenSky]

How does a flat tax help prevent this? You can have a progressive tax rate schedule and still remove all of the potential deductions that a Trump takes advantage of.

You apparently don't understand what a flat tax is. A flat tax can be progressive with as many progressive brackets as someone wants to put in it...

Nope, that's not what a 'flat tax' is. You might want to say your mea culpa to Jimmy

What is 'Flat Tax'
Flat tax is a system that applies the same tax rate to every taxpayer regardless of income bracket. Typically, a flat tax applies the same tax rate to all taxpayers, with no deductions or exemptions allowed, but some politicians such as Ted Cruz and Rand Paul have proposed flat tax systems that keep certain deductions in place. Most flat tax systems or proposals do not tax income from dividends, distributions, capital gains and other investments.

Read more: Flat Tax Definition | Investopedia http://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/flattax.asp#ixzz4LfjpJcPS

And no... a national sales tax is not a better idea. Sales taxes are regressive which means the poorer you are, the bigger your tax burden is proportionately.

 

[blastula]

Hey JonA. Does Rhea's post persuade you to care about Trump's tax returns? Or does it still look like partisan bloviating?

I still don't give a fuck. And I don't think anyone really does. Are those bitching about this planning to look at them? Have they ever looked at any candidate's returns? Have the looked at Clinton's?

If you think the point is to personally look through the tax returns, then no wonder you are undecided. That's what financial reporters are for.

 

[skepticalbip]

You apparently don't understand what a flat tax is. A flat tax can be progressive with as many progressive brackets as someone wants to put in it...

Nope, that's not what a 'flat tax' is. You might want to say your mea culpa to Jimmy

You really should broaden your search rather than accepting what some advocate for whatever their cause is (maybe wanting to protect their tax loophole?) says.

 

[laughing dog]

A flat tax is a tax that has a constant marginal tax rate on taxable income. However, a flat tax may be progressive tax on income due to exemptions. For example, suppose a flat tax of 15% is enacted but the first $30,000 of income is exempted from tax. Anyone earning $30,000 or less pays zero tax. Anyone earning $40,000 pays $1,500 in taxes (15% on the income above $30,000), so the average tax rate on income is 1,500/40,000 = 15/400 or 3.75%. Someone making $130,000 pays $15,000 in taxes and his or her average tax rate is 15,000/130,000 or about 11.5%. As income rises, the marginal rate is 15% but the average rate approaches 15%. Any flat tax with exemptions of income will be a progressive income tax.

 

[RavenSky]

Nope, that's not what a 'flat tax' is. You might want to say your mea culpa to Jimmy

You really should broaden your search rather than accepting what some advocate for whatever their cause is (maybe wanting to protect their tax loophole?) says.

Thank you so much for your attempts to insult Jimmy Higgins and now me. It adds so much to the general civil tone of the discussion and the board overall. I want so very much to respond to you in kind.

But the fact remains, the very definition of a "flat tax" is that everyone at every income level pays the same percentage of their income in taxes whether we use Investopedia's definition as I did above, or Wikopedia's

A flat tax (short for flat tax rate) is a tax system with a constant marginal rate, usually applied to individual or corporate income.

or Forbes:

Flat tax. A flat tax is exactly what it sounds like: a consistent tax rate applied to all tax brackets. A true flat tax would mean, as Dr. Carson explained, that everyone would pay the same tax rate regardless of income (he suggested 10% since that “works for God”). Flat taxes are usually imposed on wages only, meaning that there’s no tax on capital gains or investments. Russia is considered to be the world’s largest economy with a flat tax (some of the Baltic states also have a flat tax).

or US News:

A flat tax is a single rate that spans all income brackets of taxpayers, rather than the current “progressive” system, which taxes higher-income individuals at increased rates and includes numerous deductions and exemptions.

or The Balance

The "flat tax" is an income tax system in which everyone pays the same tax rate regardless of income.

or Dictionary.com

A single tax rate that applies to everyone obligated to pay the tax.

or Heritage.org:

The tax system should have a single, low rate to collect needed revenues without unnecessarily distorting economic decision making.... The New Flat Tax applies a single tax rate, about 28 percent, to wages and salaries and related benefits after subtracting all net saving.

It doesn't matter if someone agrees with the concept or not, if they are conservative or liberal, if they have a strong financial background or if they were only born yesterday - the definition of a "flat tax" is "a system that applies the same tax rate to every taxpayer regardless of income bracket."

As LD pointed out, various proponents might modify the 'flat tax' concept to exempt income under a certain level - but that is a modification of the basic concept - not the concept itself.

But what a flat tax is NOT - not ever - is "progressive with as many progressive brackets as someone wants to put in it" because that would be a "progressive tax rate" like we have now

 

[ksen]

Neocons for Hillary is hardly a point in her favor.

It is if their votes help her win instead of Trump.

You got me there.

 

[JonA]

That's true. Income tax has nothing to do with wealth. Bringing up Trump's supposed billion dollar worth is a strawman. Income tax is a levy on the adjusted income for the tax year, not wealth that one controls. The 74,608-page-long federal tax code written by our congress critters is riddled with "incentives" and "tax breaks" to benefit their backers (and themselves). But since the "incentives and tax breaks" are law, anyone can take advantage of them - it is just that most people can't read through that ever changing tax code and understand it.

Anyone who really wants a "fair" tax system should advocate scrapping the current tax code and passing a flat tax or even for passage of HR-25 (the "fair tax act").

How does a flat tax help prevent this? You can have a progressive tax rate schedule and still remove all of the potential deductions that a Trump takes advantage of.

People would only care if Trump pays a much lower effective rate in taxes than they are.

None of that would have any reflection on Trump but on the broken taxation system in the US.

I imagine the Clintons get similar tax advantages.

We've seen Clintons' tax reports. We know exactly what they paid. Trump is portraying the role of a hero to the working man, yet games the system and pays a lower effective rate than people that work hard every day. He is a con artist.

My guess is the Clintons 'game' as much as they can too.

We all do.

 

[Elixir]

My guess is the Clintons 'game' as much as they can too.

We all do.

"We" do, do we? I suppose so... where "we" = you.
I don't game as much as I can, by a long shot. From all appearances, neither do the Clintons. Nor do they direct "Other People's Money" from their charity foundation to lawyers to deal with improprieties committed by their for-profit businesses.

 

[Tristan Scott]

A flat tax is a tax that has a constant marginal tax rate on taxable income. However, a flat tax may be progressive tax on income due to exemptions. For example, suppose a flat tax of 15% is enacted but the first $30,000 of income is exempted from tax. Anyone earning $30,000 or less pays zero tax. Anyone earning $40,000 pays $1,500 in taxes (15% on the income above $30,000), so the average tax rate on income is 1,500/40,000 = 15/400 or 3.75%. Someone making $130,000 pays $15,000 in taxes and his or her average tax rate is 15,000/130,000 or about 11.5%. As income rises, the marginal rate is 15% but the average rate approaches 15%. Any flat tax with exemptions of income will be a progressive income tax.

What is required right now is a true progressive tax that encourages reinvestment with targeted loopholes. If a taxpayer with relatively high earning does not reinvest a portion of his earnings back into the economy, then that taxpayer can be penalized with a very high tax rate. This is the system of progressive taxation we had in this country during most of the 20th century and it worked well. Our real economic woes began in the 80s when they decided to flatten the tax rate. Woes for the middle class that is, not for the wealthy, however, the good times for the wealthy is not sustainable as a weakened middle class will eventually take all the wealthy down except for a few-it'll be the turn of the twentieth century all over again.

 

[Horatio Parker]

What? Tax wealth? Heresy!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Hey JonA. Does Rhea's post persuade you to care about Trump's tax returns? Or does it still look like partisan bloviating?

I still don't give a fuck. And I don't think anyone really does. Are those bitching about this planning to look at them? Have they ever looked at any candidate's returns? Have the looked at Clinton's?

You don't care about whether a guy who claims the infrastructure is crumbling and he can fix it is paying taxes?

 

[RavenSky]

I still don't give a fuck. And I don't think anyone really does. Are those bitching about this planning to look at them? Have they ever looked at any candidate's returns? Have the looked at Clinton's?

You don't care about whether a guy who claims the infrastructure is crumbling and he can fix it is paying taxes?

I guess Trump plans on making Mexico pay for our deteriorated railways and bridges and highways, too. Of course, we all saw how the orange bully tucked tail and ran when he was actually face-to-face with the Mexican President. He waited until he was back on the US side of the border before he started barking tough again.

 

[JonA]

My guess is the Clintons 'game' as much as they can too.

We all do.

"We" do, do we? I suppose so... where "we" = you.
I don't game as much as I can, by a long shot.

You don't try to pay as little tax as possible? You don't take every deduction and credit you're eligible for?

Really?