6/27/24 presidential debate

[Shadowy Man]

I guess if you only care about energy and not the voluminous vomit of lies then it could make the difference. Being president isn’t about walking around and talking with high energy.

Not defending Trump on his lies, but it is also important to show some vigor.

Yes, I wish Joe didn’t look so frail. But he knew his facts whereas Trump obviously knows exactly nothing about policy and proper governance.

Broken record "knows" facts too, let elect broken record as POTUS.

If you mean Trump then all the “facts” I heard him say were lies. Granted I didn’t watch the whole debate so I can’t rule out the possibility that at some moment he accidentally said something true.

And does he really know his facts?

Yes.

 

[barbos]

If you mean Trump then all the “facts”

I don't really care about any of these two candidates. Yes, Trump lies. And Biden truly believes in some fine shit. I am not sure what is worse.

 

[Shadowy Man]

If you mean Trump then all the “facts”

I don't really care about any of these two candidates. Yes, Trump lies. And Biden truly believes in some fine shit. I am not sure what is worse.

Well, your uncertainty may reflect limited knowledge and understanding of the full political situation. Because to those of use living over here and experiencing the fullness of the politics it is obvious which is worse.

 

[Ford]

It was a disaster.

I thought he was in trouble from the very first, when he walked onto the stage looking like a slack-jawed ambulatory cadaver. Then he began talking and removed all doubts. This is serious business. The Dems have got to get their act together and nominate someone who can beat Adolf Putin Trump.

Who? How? "Many people are saying" this, but no one seems to have an answer to those follow up questions.

 

[Elixir]

there's no doubt which way these Undecideds are now planning to vote after watching this debate.

... assuming that Jill doesn't grab him by the elbow and whisper in his ear "let's go home, dear".
I think that if Joe chooses the right moment to drop out and hand the nomination to someone unexpected (not Kami, who would lose) or even expected (Newsome) the Republican dirt factory wouldn't have sufficient time to Hillarize the nominee to bring them down to Trump's level.
Right now, we have bombast and lying vs mumbling and spacing out.

I swear - I'm fucking 74 and I can def feel it. Maybe in 7 years I'll be moving as stiffly and speaking as undecipherably as Biden is now, but I doubt it on both counts (assuming I'm alive). Biden may still own the finest political mind alive today, but if he can't get it in gear when it's needed (like, in a debate against a wannabe Hitler), it is of no use to the Union, and he will NOT get elected under any circumstances.

 

[Elixir]

Who? How? "Many people are saying" this, but no one seems to have an answer to those follow up questions.

I don't know, but just f'rinstance...
HOW: Jill pulls him aside and tells him enough is enough. I think that would do the trick.
WHO: Right now the obvious choice is Gavin Newsome. He does have some baggage, but he has a voice that can project, a mind that can operate his mouth, and the Central Casting look (which is all that binds some people to Trump). The simple ability to articulate Trump's lies in a manner that might be understood, is possibly all else that would be needed. But a non-obvious choice would be even better, as the Republican tarring machine has already been to work on poor Gavin.

 

[thebeave]

OK, I've watched the whole thing till the end.
Biden did OK, all things considered. I mean he did not wander off the stage in the middle of the sentence as I had hoped he would. I think no distraction from the audience helped in that regard a lot. He did not start well though. He looked scared and rushing through the thing he was prepared to say.
Trump did Trump exactly as expected. None of the two have even a tiny bit of capacity to be president.


I honestly don't understand people who say that Biden should step down now. Were you expecting Biden doing better than this? Why?

This. To me, I would say Biden's debate performance met my expectations going in, based on his various public speeches over the past few years. Maybe even slightly exceeding. I'm rather surprised to see people here and in the news media being sorta floored over his dismal performance. I guess people were expecting Dark Brandon like at the SOTU speech, but seemed to have not realized that was a teleprompter guiding his speech. Or maybe people have been only watching sanitized and edited speeches, or have not watched him talk at all over the last couple of years.

 

[Spacetime Inhabitant]

Americans have a funny idea of what a debate is. Firstly, it shouldn't go on for one and a half hours.
Secondly, it should involve proper interactions.
I only sampled the debate, and sure Biden didn't do too great, but look at what Trump did - he didn't answer questions.
If anyone was impressed by Trump's performance, then they were already going to vote for him.
Trump's handlers knew that he couldn't compete in an actual debate, so they had him perform his usual tactic of simply spewing lies, as no intellectual effort required for this, plus of course ignoring actual questions was another way to avoid Trump actually having to think, which he of course would fail at.
Democratic panic about Biden's performance is a number of people who are overestimating the importance of the debate, because they are too heavily into media perceptions and not into what normal people think.

 

[Shadowy Man]

What I found I interesting was news commentators making verbal gaffes while reporting on Biden’s verbal gaffes. Ones that are even half his age. Anyone speaking contemporaneously will make mistakes. Even Joe Scarborough said “chet” as he was trying to say “China threat”.

I’m not saying Biden looked good because he didn’t look good but I agree that they shouldnt have been so surprised at what they saw. Clearly Joe had crammed all kinds of facts into his brain and he had difficulties getting it all out.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Who? How? "Many people are saying" this, but no one seems to have an answer to those follow up questions.

I don't know, but just f'rinstance...
HOW: Jill pulls him aside and tells him enough is enough. I think that would do the trick.
WHO: Right now the obvious choice is Gavin Newsome.

You misspelled Kamila Harris, who is the VP and has instant brand awareness.

This comes down to, what is his actual status? Then it needs to be managed appropriately. Bad night, Biden needs to crush it our on the campaign field. If he is limited, even to being an above average 80+ year old who is coherent but has a life time of speaking issues that are getting worse, they need to consider side stepping. Up to this point, he had managed the big things, and the alt-right was clippin', croppin', editin' the truth. His performance stepped right into their narrative.

Biden failed to make the argument that Trump is a danger and failure. That is worse than most of the other issues from last night.

 

[Elixir]

You misspelled Kamila Harris, who is the VP and has instant brand awareness.

I think she is non-viable. MAYBE as a repeat VP.
But she would be easy to Hillarize - the RW BS machine is already revved up to operating speed in opposition to her.
And again, the superficial stuff that drives the morons who will actually decide the election; her nasal voice, pedantic delivery, the fact that she's a woman carrying Joe's baggage... I think more viable choices abound, even though she may well be the best choice for The Country.

Biden failed to make the argument that Trump is a danger and failure. That is worse than most of the other issues from last night.

Yup. Filed under "you had ONE job!"

 

[barbos]

Biden didn't do too great, but look at what Trump did - he didn't answer questions

Does not that make him great politician? I mean that's how it works, right?

 

[Elixir]

Biden didn't do too great, but look at what Trump did - he didn't answer questions

Does not that make him great politician? I mean that's how it works, right?

Yes babs, Biden is a great politician. Maybe the best political mind alive today.
But very much like how Russians love having brutal dictators fulfilling their death wish at every turn, 'Murkinz currently crave an oligarchy, and the Trump option throws open the possibility that "you too can be a billionaire oligarch! Just elect me!" in their minds. The last thing they want is a fucking egalitarian who is going to reduce them to the level of equality with a penniless migrant worker.

 

[ZiprHead]

The only thing that lets Trump be on par with Biden here is the reluctance of the moderators to fact check. If they just could point out what the lies are the debate would be between Trump and Tapper.

Yeah, they were useless. The question could have been handed to the two of them on a piece of paper for all the "moderators" were worth.

 

[ZiprHead]

Or he is just an old man who knows his stuff and it was lies that he needs drugs.

He is an old man who showed every year of his age. Trump is barely younger, but came across as much higher energy. That is a problem. The presidential campaign will be long and grueling. And Biden does not have COVID as an excuse to hide in the White House basement until November.

He should be drug tested.

 

[Swammerdami]

I honestly don't understand people who say that Biden should step down now. Were you expecting Biden doing better than this? Why?

This. To me, I would say Biden's debate performance met my expectations going in, based on his various public speeches over the past few years. Maybe even slightly exceeding. I'm rather surprised to see people here and in the news media being sorta floored over his dismal performance.

One of the problems is the ubiquity of Fox-QAnon-Putinist fake news. It makes it harder to recognize real news. For example, consider the recent allegedly "cropped" video where Biden wanders off from a photo-shoot. Was this a sign that the octogenarian is scatter-brained? I still don't know, but Democrats rushed to defend him, and to reassure people like me. But some of these defenses might themselves be disinformation.

So I don't think ordinary people like me can make a valid judgment about Biden's cognition. But White House insiders certainly could. If they knew that a dismal performance like this was a real possibility then -- Shame on them! It is NOT their job to conceal the problems of an aging man. Their responsibility is to save American democracy. Have they been derelict?

Biden has stuttered and made verbal faux pas all his life. But I've never seen anything like I saw this morning (my time). One paragraph was heart-breaking, total word salad. When he was finally able to construct a complete sentence, that sentence finished with his commitment to "kill Medicare" or some such.

How did Biden fail so badly? The time was probably a problem. 9 PM is probably well past Biden's bed-time while Trump is a night-owl. Does he take simple stimulants? Perhaps he should have; Trump had probably dosed on meth or some such drug. But these possibilities were all known to White House intimates. How did they let the debate go forward on these terms?

Are Democratic pols stymied by Biden's refusal to step down? That seems unlikely, but it shouldn't be an impasse. When the time comes -- perhaps right now -- just say "It's over, Joe."

Who? How? "Many people are saying" this, but no one seems to have an answer to those follow up questions.

I don't know, but just f'rinstance...
HOW: Jill pulls him aside and tells him enough is enough. I think that would do the trick.
WHO: Right now the obvious choice is Gavin Newsome.

You misspelled Kamila Harris, who is the VP and has instant brand awareness.

I'm afraid it is YOU who has misspelled Kamala's name! I think she's fine, but the fact that her name is hard-to-spell is already one strike against her. Whom do we draft to replace Biden? Let me quote myself from 15 months ago:

One name that doesn't appear on most of these lists is Gretchen Whitmer. I hereby throw her hat into the ring, and direct my delegates to support her!

Whitmer is of course the Governor of Michigan whom MAGAites conspired to assassinate.

She is smart of course. Like Kamala Harris she is a former prosecutor. But she is seven years younger than Kamala, more charismatic I think, and -- yes, it DOES matter -- more photogenic.

The GOPlins and hate-drenched racists are unlikely to come to their senses, but if they do they'll push for Nikki Haley. Will the D's need to put forth a female of their own? I'm afraid Haley wins in a Haley-Harris contest.

Gretchen Whitmer for President​

 

[AthenaAwakened]

I woke up this morning with the dread that democrats would allow their fear of Trump to chain themselves to the anchor that is Joe Biden.
And it's happening.
I'm watching Dem surrogates and pundits and rank and file voters tell America, "Are you gonna believe us or your own lying eyes?"
Trump and Biden are NOT the only two people who can be president. They aren't even the only two Republicans or Democrats.
Biden is old, and not is the good way. And after last night, he's so old that he's older than his birthday.
Trump is a treacherous liar, a septuagenarian toddler stuck in his terrible-twos who knows nothing but soundbites and bravado.
This country is headed toward troubled waters and doesn't need either of these people piloting its ship of state.
Luckily there are over 300,000,000 million Americans other than these two from which to choose.
Choose better.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

You misspelled Kamila Harris, who is the VP and has instant brand awareness.

I think she is non-viable. MAYBE as a repeat VP.
But she would be easy to Hillarize - the RW BS machine is already revved up to operating speed in opposition to her.

Who cares. The election is about turnout.

And again, the superficial stuff that drives the morons who will actually decide the election; her nasal voice, pedantic delivery, the fact that she's a woman carrying Joe's baggage... I think more viable choices abound, even though she may well be the best choice for The Country.

I think she is the best by a number of metrics. She isn't a Dan Quayle or Sarah Palin. Easier for me to say, I wanted her to lead the ticket in 2020.

Biden failed to make the argument that Trump is a danger and failure. That is worse than most of the other issues from last night.

Yup. Filed under "you had ONE job!"

It probably wouldn't have tilted the scales, but it would have set a tone. Instead things went backwards.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I woke up this morning with the dread that democrats would allow their fear of Trump to chain themselves to the anchor that is Joe Biden.
And it's happening.

We didn't. Biden did. Running a primary against a standing President has rarely led to happy occasions. And again, what happened, where is he, etc... one bad night doesn't mean all the alt-right bullshit was "right all along". What we do know is that an opportunity was utterly squandered. The rest is guessing.

I'm watching Dem surrogates and pundits and rank and file voters tell America, "Are you gonna believe us or your own lying eyes?"
Trump and Biden are NOT the only two people who can be president. They aren't even the only two Republicans or Democrats.
Biden is old, and not is the good way. And after last night, he's so old that he's older than his birthday.

Naw... I'd go with, this will be Biden's second time turning 82.

Trump is a treacherous liar, a septuagenarian toddler stuck in his terrible-twos who knows nothing but soundbites and bravado.
This country is headed toward troubled waters and doesn't need either of these people piloting its ship of state.
Luckily there are over 300,000,000 million Americans other than these two from which to choose.
Choose better.

The choice is Biden's and the DNC's. If Biden decides to step aside, the doors open to something new. Of course, in SNL style I see Hillary Clinton stepping through the doors "I'm back baby!" as we all slap our foreheads. If Biden is competent/coherent, but can't present a certain savior faire, there is reason for handlers to maybe step it back. As I noted previous, he's performed before, this is the first time he has fumbled badly. So this doesn't default to a he is senile.

But I agree that there have to be better options, but options can't be discussed until Biden steps aside. And he'd need to do it quickly, and in a manner that has dignity and allows a replacement to have confidence of the people and the highest bidders.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Americans have a funny idea of what a debate is. Firstly, it shouldn't go on for one and a half hours.
Secondly, it should involve proper interactions.
I only sampled the debate, and sure Biden didn't do too great, but look at what Trump did - he didn't answer questions.

That is not unusual for Presidential Debates. So I'm not going to hold that against Trump. Just about everything else though.

Democratic panic about Biden's performance is a number of people who are overestimating the importance of the debate, because they are too heavily into media perceptions and not into what normal people think.

I went to the BBC to see what they said post debate. I couldn't care to watch it. Biden did poorly, across the board. While it might not move the needle much it does make us have to ask some questions, as the needle doesn't need to move much for Trump to win in 2024.