And now the totally expected Trans Bathroom laws result

[Toni]

It is certainly conceivable that the woman initially addressed Ruiz politely, and Ruiz's response might have been less than courteous, leading to the unfortunate escalation into violence. However, these specific details, while they may add context, do not absolve the root cause of the issue. An issue that will repeat itself at another time and place.

For this case, we don't know what the root cause was. Was the complaint coming from a woman, a Karen, could it have been diffused quickly, did someone escalate, was the woman's position on trans relevant?

What we do know is the person was told to go to that restroom at that camp site for a decade or so, and they belonged there. Everything else is based on the complications of that order and America's lack of maturity to deal with this subject.

That’s it: a woman objecting to an apparent t man in a women’s bathroom is now a KAREN???

It is a possibility, one of several I provided, and didn't actually choose which one had to be the case. But certainly, it is possible a woman felt entitled to lay down the law via needless meddling (just as it seems the Kevins did outside). Or a woman in general might have felt that the guy did not belong there because they thought the person was a guy. Or a woman might have initially thought he was a guy, then understood he was a woman (genital wise) and then her position on trans became the issue. Ruiz could have been upset having to defend their following the rules for the umpteenth time and made things harder.

Any number of hypotheticals here which all stem from different conflicts of the exact same situation. Which again, Ruiz did what they were told... and this happened. The worst types of problems to solve are usually the ones where neither side is wrong, and that generally gets harder when misogyny, bullying, bigotry, and ignorance get a play too.

Man accuses 9-year-old girl with short hair of being trans & leaves her sobbing - LGBTQ Nation

The old man told her and another girl with short hair that they're "obviously trans" and shouldn't compete.

www.lgbtqnation.com

How is that relevant?
Tom

Another case of a man being intolerant and wrong and bullying a child for no good reason.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It is certainly conceivable that the woman initially addressed Ruiz politely, and Ruiz's response might have been less than courteous, leading to the unfortunate escalation into violence. However, these specific details, while they may add context, do not absolve the root cause of the issue. An issue that will repeat itself at another time and place.

For this case, we don't know what the root cause was. Was the complaint coming from a woman, a Karen, could it have been diffused quickly, did someone escalate, was the woman's position on trans relevant?

What we do know is the person was told to go to that restroom at that camp site for a decade or so, and they belonged there. Everything else is based on the complications of that order and America's lack of maturity to deal with this subject.

That’s it: a woman objecting to an apparent t man in a women’s bathroom is now a KAREN???

It is a possibility, one of several I provided, and didn't actually choose which one had to be the case. But certainly, it is possible a woman felt entitled to lay down the law via needless meddling (just as it seems the Kevins did outside). Or a woman in general might have felt that the guy did not belong there because they thought the person was a guy. Or a woman might have initially thought he was a guy, then understood he was a woman (genital wise) and then her position on trans became the issue. Ruiz could have been upset having to defend their following the rules for the umpteenth time and made things harder.

Any number of hypotheticals here which all stem from different conflicts of the exact same situation. Which again, Ruiz did what they were told... and this happened. The worst types of problems to solve are usually the ones where neither side is wrong, and that generally gets harder when misogyny, bullying, bigotry, and ignorance get a play too.

Earth to Jimmy: It WAS a guy coming in. Or do you not believe that trans men are men?

And WTF calling anybody names that are supposed to indicate gender specific white privilege?????

Yeah, let’s Fe is not much fun living under misogyny, bullying, bigotry and ignorance.

Wish you men folk would stop that shit like 2 thousand years ago but I’ll be happy with today. How about stopping that today.

It feels like you are responding to my post, but not what I said.

 

[TomC]

Apparently, in Ohio people can be directed to the bathrooms of their assigned at birth sex.

I get that.
It's just not clear that it's relevant to this particular episode.
Did this law exist a year ago?

Does it require private facilities to restrict bathrooms?

Again, I'm not claiming to know. All I know about is Ruiz' version of what happened.
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It is a possibility, one of several I provided, and didn't actually choose which one had to be the case. But certainly, it is possible a woman felt entitled to lay down the law via needless meddling (just as it seems the Kevins did outside). Or a woman in general might have felt that the guy did not belong there because they thought the person was a guy. Or a woman might have initially thought he was a guy, then understood he was a woman (genital wise) and then her position on trans became the issue. Ruiz could have been upset having to defend their following the rules for the umpteenth time and made things harder.

Any number of hypotheticals here which all stem from different conflicts of the exact same situation. Which again, Ruiz did what they were told... and this happened. The worst types of problems to solve are usually the ones where neither side is wrong, and that generally gets harder when misogyny, bullying, bigotry, and ignorance get a play too.

Man accuses 9-year-old girl with short hair of being trans & leaves her sobbing - LGBTQ Nation

The old man told her and another girl with short hair that they're "obviously trans" and shouldn't compete.

www.lgbtqnation.com

How is that relevant?
Tom

As I noted early in the thread, it is relevant because people are interjecting themselves into these situations that they know nothing about, and their opinions are based solely on misleading or mispresumed assumptions. And I'm not talking about people on a web board. But guys beating on a trans for being in the right bathroom or a guy telling a girl she doesn't fit his presumption of what a 9 yr old girl should look like.

 

[Toni]

It is certainly conceivable that the woman initially addressed Ruiz politely, and Ruiz's response might have been less than courteous, leading to the unfortunate escalation into violence. However, these specific details, while they may add context, do not absolve the root cause of the issue. An issue that will repeat itself at another time and place.

For this case, we don't know what the root cause was. Was the complaint coming from a woman, a Karen, could it have been diffused quickly, did someone escalate, was the woman's position on trans relevant?

What we do know is the person was told to go to that restroom at that camp site for a decade or so, and they belonged there. Everything else is based on the complications of that order and America's lack of maturity to deal with this subject.

That’s it: a woman objecting to an apparent t man in a women’s bathroom is now a KAREN???

It is a possibility, one of several I provided, and didn't actually choose which one had to be the case. But certainly, it is possible a woman felt entitled to lay down the law via needless meddling (just as it seems the Kevins did outside). Or a woman in general might have felt that the guy did not belong there because they thought the person was a guy. Or a woman might have initially thought he was a guy, then understood he was a woman (genital wise) and then her position on trans became the issue. Ruiz could have been upset having to defend their following the rules for the umpteenth time and made things harder.

Any number of hypotheticals here which all stem from different conflicts of the exact same situation. Which again, Ruiz did what they were told... and this happened. The worst types of problems to solve are usually the ones where neither side is wrong, and that generally gets harder when misogyny, bullying, bigotry, and ignorance get a play too.

Earth to Jimmy: It WAS a guy coming in. Or do you not believe that trans men are men?

And WTF calling anybody names that are supposed to indicate gender specific white privilege?????

Yeah, let’s Fe is not much fun living under misogyny, bullying, bigotry and ignorance.

Wish you men folk would stop that shit like 2 thousand years ago but I’ll be happy with today. How about stopping that today.

It feels like you are responding to my post, but not what I said.

Sorry to be such an inscrutable woman.

 

[TomC]

Another case of a man being intolerant and wrong and bullying a child for no good reason.

Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It feels like you are responding to my post, but not what I said.

Sorry to be such an inscrutable woman.

We all have our crosses to bear. You are an inscrutable woman. I'm a know nothing know-it-all.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Another case of a man being intolerant and wrong and bullying a child for no good reason.

View attachment 43488
Tom

There is a tad bit of a difference between 'kids on my lawn' or 'music is just awful these days' or 'pants are hanging too damn low' verses shouting out at girls who are the center of attention that they don't look like girls.

 

[TomC]

Another case of a man being intolerant and wrong and bullying a child for no good reason.

View attachment 43488
Tom

There is a tad bit of a difference between 'kids on my lawn' or 'music is just awful these days' or 'pants are hanging too damn low' verses shouting out at girls who are the center of attention that they don't look like girls.

But only a tad bit.
Ridiculously impolite, sure.
Frankly, I'm rather protective of kids. I'd have been happy to tell him he's a dumbass who shouldn't be allowed close enough to children to be heard.

But that would be about it.
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

As long as you consider public humiliation to be a negligible thing.

 

[TomC]

As long as you consider public humiliation to be a negligible thing.

I consider it dreadful, particularly for kids.

I wish I could save them all from the many worse things out there as well.
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

“In the meantime, his wife was shouting that I was a genital mutilator, a groomer and a pedophile. (The man) then demanded that I provide a certificate proving my daughter was born female. My daughter was so shaken up. She has never witnessed this kind of hate before.”

link

This nomenclature is straight up from alt-right media sources. These people are allowing themselves to get riled up by paid radio, internet, and cable news commentary antagonists

 

[Toni]

It’s totally relevant.

Apparently, in Ohio people can be directed to the bathrooms of their assigned at birth sex.

I get that.
It's just not clear that it's relevant to this particular episode.
Did this law exist a year ago?

Does it require private facilities to restrict bathrooms?

Again, I'm not claiming to know. All I know about is Ruiz' version of what happened.
Tom

It’s totally relevant. Ruiz was attempting to do the right/ least troublesome thing.

It is extremely naive to think that the law change is not a reflection of the long held beliefs of cis white straight men in Ohio.

 

[TomC]

Ruiz was attempting to do the right/ least troublesome thing.

I'm curious.
Have you any reason to believe that other than claims made by Ruiz and his mom?
Tom

 

[Loren Pechtel]

But to get back to this particular case: The trans man was directed to the women’s rest room, very improperly. He should never have had to do this. I cannot overstate how wrong I think it was to force him to use a different restroom than the one that confirmed to his appearance.

But you're the one who did it--saying no penises in the women's gets you all the vaginas even if they're attached to someone very masculine in appearance.

Can you quote the part where Toni "did it"? I find myself quite taken aback by such an assertion. So much in fact I tried finding it myself to no avail.

People with her position, not only her personally.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

That’s it: a woman objecting to an apparent t man in a women’s bathroom is now a KAREN???

It’s bad enough that women are being distilled into a single name—a perfectly good. name at that—but now she is somehow the personification of ‘white female privilege’ for objecting to a man in the women’s room.

Fuck that shit.

Karens aren't about objecting, but how they object. The usage is obviously meaning someone who was unreasonable and continued to object after being informed that they were trans and doing what the law required.

 

[Jarhyn]

That’s it: a woman objecting to an apparent t man in a women’s bathroom is now a KAREN???

It’s bad enough that women are being distilled into a single name—a perfectly good. name at that—but now she is somehow the personification of ‘white female privilege’ for objecting to a man in the women’s room.

Fuck that shit.

Karens aren't about objecting, but how they object. The usage is obviously meaning someone who was unreasonable and continued to object after being informed that they were trans and doing what the law required.

There's an interesting pattern of behavior that can usually be seen and understood around the different reactions someone accused of being somewhere where someone thinks they don't belong will take.

They can run/wander away.

They can pretend they don't know what is happening.

They can press an assault.

Rarely does anyone who lacks a real right to be there stand their ground and continue to engage on their assertion.

The only time anyone ever sticks around and says "leave me alone, I have a right to be here" is generally when they have the means to prove it, and the only time most people refuse to recognize their evidence is usually because they are looking for a fight.

The Karen could have just as easily asked "why are you in here?" In a level tone and then accepted the explanation in an equal tone. It's easy and straightforward, and the opportunity to scream is still there in case the person decides to "press".

Also, I might note, I think this whole situation proves a point I have been trying to make for some time: that people's "trans-dar" doesn't work nearly as well as they think it does, or else this whole incident wouldn't have happened.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

That’s it: a woman objecting to an apparent t man in a women’s bathroom is now a KAREN???

It’s bad enough that women are being distilled into a single name—a perfectly good. name at that—but now she is somehow the personification of ‘white female privilege’ for objecting to a man in the women’s room.

Fuck that shit.

Karens aren't about objecting, but how they object. The usage is obviously meaning someone who was unreasonable and continued to object after being informed that they were trans and doing what the law required.

"Karen" in this case is about needless third-party meddling (but in order for it to be a "Karen" it needs to be needless) and we don't even know if that was even part of this to begin with.

Why we don't have a name for some white guy who goes up to a black family and bitches their music is too loud on 4th of July at the park (it wasn't... that'd been some other guy with his car stereo) as if he is the official noise ordinance cop, well, I think we know why.

For the record, I've never used the "Karen" label in real life, and rarely use it online.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

That’s it: a woman objecting to an apparent t man in a women’s bathroom is now a KAREN???

It’s bad enough that women are being distilled into a single name—a perfectly good. name at that—but now she is somehow the personification of ‘white female privilege’ for objecting to a man in the women’s room.

Fuck that shit.

Karens aren't about objecting, but how they object. The usage is obviously meaning someone who was unreasonable and continued to object after being informed that they were trans and doing what the law required.

There's an interesting pattern of behavior that can usually be seen and understood around the different reactions someone accused of being somewhere where someone thinks they don't belong will take.

They can run/wander away.

They can pretend they don't know what is happening.

They can press an assault.

Rarely does anyone who lacks a real right to be there stand their ground and continue to engage on their assertion.

Unless they are a danger, jackass, or sociopath.

All we know about the woman is that she objected to Ruiz's presence. Based on photos, Noah could easily be mistaken for the male as he identified as. What happens after that is very muddled.

The Karen could have just as easily asked "why are you in here?" In a level tone and then accepted the explanation in an equal tone. It's easy and straightforward, and the opportunity to scream is still there in case the person decides to "press".

Meanwhile Emily Lake's, Toni's, and AthenaAwakened's computers all just exploded and they aren't certain why. You are complaining about the woman's reaction, of which you still really don't know what it was to begin with. Dollars to donuts, if a "guy" is seen in a bathroom, probably the wrong place, that'd be worth double down odds. Telling women that they need to communicate better when they are panicking because they are perceiving a potential threat is and they should hold off on judgment in light of a less likely chance something completely harmless is happening is... well... patronizing.

 

[ZiprHead]

Nobody really knows when or why he was "advised" to use the women's facilities.

I thought it was made into law that he had to use the birth sex facility.