Another Fucking Mass Shooting At US School

[Loren Pechtel]

Another 3 dead children at a Christian School in Nashville.
It's a school for pre-K to 6th grade... the shooter is among the dead but I can't find any information on the shooter's age, weaponry or anything else. Kinda weird.

Not really that weird. Such details usually get released a bit later, not immediately.

To me, the weird part is K-6 students shooting each other.
YMMV
Tom

It might not be a student.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Take the case of 17 year old Austin Lyle, who shot two school employees a few days ago. He was on probation for a gun charge, which was downgraded from a felony. Had the law been adequately enforced, he would not have been allowed to attend school in person to begin with. That's my point again: enforce existing laws before coming up with new ones, esp. ones that ban whole categories of weapons for lawful gun owners.

Passing laws is easy. Providing the budget to actually enforce them is quite another matter. Hence the politicians prefer to add more laws than actually make the existing ones work.

 

[Elixir]

she could easily have killed these six people with the handgun

But, did she?

So there’s no need for AR-15s, it would seem you agree.

No particular need to ban them either.
In a free society, things should be allowed unless there are sufficient reasons to ban them. Not be banned unless some overriding "need" is demonstrated.

How many corpses constitute overriding need according to the gospel of Derec?
I do not believe there is any number of deaths that would rise to the standard of need to override the freedumbs of RW gun rights idiots.

 

[TomC]

It might not be a student.

Apparently, it was and it wasn't.

Initial reports were sketchy and inaccurate. It's par for the course, that's why I'm uninclined to make many judgements based on such.

But it wasn't very long ago that a 6y/o shot his teacher. It sucks, but it happens.
Tom

 

[Gospel]

Read the entire article. A few excerpts don't do it justice.

The article fell short of informing folks on what the issues may actually be. I agree with the sentiment but the author didn't say what the author believes the issues are nor offer solutions. Would have been useful if the obvious was stated like, poverty and a lack of care for our mentally deficient citizens and flawed education on guns are the combination of issues surrounding gun violence. And then offer up some solutions like

1) Get gun lobbyists on board to change the narrative about gun ownership back to what it originally was (without them it will never change)
2) Better Health care (especially mental health)
3) Improving capitalism so that distribution of wealth is not so NEEDLESSLY lopsided.

Just some examples. The article was useless to me, but it may be useful to people who haven't thought that the political polarization of gun violence is a distraction.

 

[Elixir]

Get gun lobbyists on board to change the narrative about gun ownership back to what it originally was

Gun lobbyists are hired to promote guns, not to change narratives. I think the industry should be forcibly excluded from politics. Don‘t know how that could happen but it is more likely than gun lobbyists doing anything the gun mfrs don’t approve.

 

[Jarhyn]

The Covenant Presbyterian Church and its church-run school, targeted in the tragic shooting, are at the center of a complex child sexual abuse scandal from 2002-2012.

A 2012 lawsuit alleges that defendants associated with Covenant, including Bachmann, Eades, Avery, and Robinson, were involved in concealing unlawful child sexual abuse by John Perry. The plaintiffs were unaware of the abuse until 2012.

By 2015, two lawsuits alleged child sexual misconduct by Perry. During divorce proceedings, Perry's ex-wife claimed his "inappropriate marital conduct" led to their separation, also as reported by the Arkansas Times.

John Perry was a prominent pastor who had co-authored several books with then Arkansas governor, Mike Huckabee.

The church allegedly used Perry's home as a "safe house" (on the back of his “good reputation”) for children they believed were mistreated by their parents.

This arrangement allowed the church to remove children from their homes and place them under Perry's care, raising serious concerns about the safety and protection of these vulnerable children in the hands of a confessed child molester.

In June 2009, a family sought help from Attorney Larry Crain after being silenced for raising concerns about children's safety in Perry's "safe house." Crain later filed a $3M lawsuit against the person who reported the abuse while representing Perry.

Additionally, the Davises sued Covenant Presbyterian Church and parishioner Dale Lewelling, accusing the church of covering up for confessed child molester John Perry and putting children in Perry's so-called "safe house."

The family claims they were harassed, assaulted, and threatened for raising concerns about the church's concealment of child sexual abuse.

Despite the scandal, local media in Nashville has not covered the stories involving John Perry, who admitted to sexually molesting his daughter in court.

Presbyterian Church Association was reportedly going to bring charges against Pastor Jim Bachmann of Covenant, another church member who was implicated in enabling the abuse. Yet, no one has been charged in connection with the child sexual abuse allegations and cover-up.

This leads to the question, when females only commit 2% of all mass shootings and have only committed 4 of the 147 school shootings before this event, could this have been a carefully plotted vengeance mission?

Did Hale decide to partake in a tragic act of vigilante justice to try and bring attention to sexual crimes for which no one had ever been forced to pay for?

The ages match up. Hale, born around 1994, would have been an elementary – middle schooler sometime between 2002-2012 when the alleged abuse happened. Covenant Presbyterian taught kids from K-6th grade. Could Hale have been a victim too?

Here is a document belonging to a database outlining the sequence of events of Covenant's sex crimes and cover-ups. It was compiled and created by a man attempting to expose Covenant for nearly a decade.

What are they trying to hide?

Another potential piece in the puzzle, Hale messaged a middle school basketball teammate on social media informing her that Hale planned to die by suicide:

“One day this will make more sense," Hale wrote. "I've left behind more than enough evidence behind.”

Something that could disprove this theory is if covenant was actually secondary target and the undisclosed school was the primary target.

This is unless the undisclosed school in someway had a connection to the abuse scandal.

Janespeaksup for that regional area eludes to multiple christian schools in that area, in that time period, having allegations of cover ups of sexual abuse.

As to why Hale would target kids when an adult would be the abuser: who knows. Anyone who would senselessly murder children and teachers isn't logical.

But in sum, only time and the manifesto will tell.

However, it looks like they’re gearing up to avoid releasing the manifesto.

Reposted from a reddit post. Very informative.

 

[Swammerdami]

This graphic (from a Hillary Clinton tweet?) may shed some light. From 1994-2004 there was an assault weapons ban. And indeed there was a big increase in mass shootings right when the ban expired.

Instead of just the expiration of the weapons ban, the mass killings may have been (indirectly?) caused by American politics. The Federal government was dysfunctional by Bush-43's 2nd term. There was huge resentment when a black President was elected in 2008. And of course Trumpism severely impacted American sanity.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So there’s no need for AR-15s, it would seem you agree.

No particular need to ban them either.
In a free society, things should be allowed unless there are sufficient reasons to ban them. Not be banned unless some overriding "need" is demonstrated.

There is no sufficient need. It will never exist. Could execute an entire school, and that need will never exist. The arguments against doing something are so transparently bogus and full of crap.

A: Let's just ban the "assault weapons".
B: Well, just banning the assault weapons only deals with a small percentage of murders.
A: Okay, then let's ban all the types of guns responsible for murder.
B: But that'd be against the Constitution and would unfairly harm lawful gun owners.
A: So we can't surgically manage the gun issue... and we can't blunt force it either. What other options are there?
B: Enforce the laws we have now.
A: The laws against murdering people don't need to be changed. And in most cases, the shooters in mass shootings legally obtained their weapons. Many of them at the last second.

We really need to stop talking about all these "victims" of gun violence and more about the victims of gun reforms. They are the ones who lose the most. Blessed are the gun owners!

 

[Shadowy Man]

It's the whole "I'd rather die of heart disease than change my diet" attitude that seems to epitomize the American mindset. "Pry it from my cold, dead hands." "If some is good, then more is better, and if more is better, then most is best." I don't think this kind of thinking dominates in other countries, which is why the United States has certain problems that don't show up around the world.

 

[lpetrich]

I think that restricting ammunition would be a better approach. A gun without ammo is not very dangerous.

As to self-defense, I think that gun-control advocates fall terribly short. I keep on being disappointed with them for doing so. I think that we ought to promote nonlethal and low-lethality forms of self-defense, like martial arts, Tasers, and the like.


Fact check: Guns banned from Trump NRA speech by Secret Service policy
Attendees can carry guns during most of NRA convention 2022 | verifythis.com - "The NRA did not ban guns from their annual meeting, but the Secret Service says guns can’t be carried where and when former President Donald Trump will be speaking."
The NRA thus let the Secret Service violate their extremist interpretation of the Second Amendment.

Their interpretation is also universally violated by operators of jails and prisons, as they keep their inmates from acquiring guns.

 

[Elixir]

Their interpretation is also universally violated by operators of jails and prisons, as they keep their inmates from acquiring guns.

They don’t let inmates have guns because they’re afraid the inmates will make knives out of them.

 

[TSwizzle]

Despite three nine-year-olds being gunned down by a transgender shooter at a private Christian school in Nashville, activists are still rallying the troops to protest for a 'Trans Day of Vengeance' - months after raising money for firearms training. But despite rising political tensions across the country, which saw a press secretary for Arizona Democrat Governor post a Tweet about shooting transphobes, the Trans Radical Activist Network (TRAN) is pushing forward with their protest in DC. The Virginia chapter of the group held a 'dance party fundraiser' in Richmond 'benefiting firearm/self-defense training for trans-Virginians' on March 7, before the mass shooting had taken place.

Daily Mail

When you see the rabid, unhinged, hate fueled rhetoric aimed at the likes of J.K. Rowling or Kellie-Jay Keen it only becomes a matter of time before someone goes off at the deep end.

 

[Gospel]

The Covenant Presbyterian Church and its church-run school, targeted in the tragic shooting, are at the center of a complex child sexual abuse scandal from 2002-2012.

A 2012 lawsuit alleges that defendants associated with Covenant, including Bachmann, Eades, Avery, and Robinson, were involved in concealing unlawful child sexual abuse by John Perry. The plaintiffs were unaware of the abuse until 2012.

By 2015, two lawsuits alleged child sexual misconduct by Perry. During divorce proceedings, Perry's ex-wife claimed his "inappropriate marital conduct" led to their separation, also as reported by the Arkansas Times.

John Perry was a prominent pastor who had co-authored several books with then Arkansas governor, Mike Huckabee.

The church allegedly used Perry's home as a "safe house" (on the back of his “good reputation”) for children they believed were mistreated by their parents.

This arrangement allowed the church to remove children from their homes and place them under Perry's care, raising serious concerns about the safety and protection of these vulnerable children in the hands of a confessed child molester.

In June 2009, a family sought help from Attorney Larry Crain after being silenced for raising concerns about children's safety in Perry's "safe house." Crain later filed a $3M lawsuit against the person who reported the abuse while representing Perry.

Additionally, the Davises sued Covenant Presbyterian Church and parishioner Dale Lewelling, accusing the church of covering up for confessed child molester John Perry and putting children in Perry's so-called "safe house."

The family claims they were harassed, assaulted, and threatened for raising concerns about the church's concealment of child sexual abuse.

Despite the scandal, local media in Nashville has not covered the stories involving John Perry, who admitted to sexually molesting his daughter in court.

Presbyterian Church Association was reportedly going to bring charges against Pastor Jim Bachmann of Covenant, another church member who was implicated in enabling the abuse. Yet, no one has been charged in connection with the child sexual abuse allegations and cover-up.

This leads to the question, when females only commit 2% of all mass shootings and have only committed 4 of the 147 school shootings before this event, could this have been a carefully plotted vengeance mission?

Did Hale decide to partake in a tragic act of vigilante justice to try and bring attention to sexual crimes for which no one had ever been forced to pay for?

The ages match up. Hale, born around 1994, would have been an elementary – middle schooler sometime between 2002-2012 when the alleged abuse happened. Covenant Presbyterian taught kids from K-6th grade. Could Hale have been a victim too?

Here is a document belonging to a database outlining the sequence of events of Covenant's sex crimes and cover-ups. It was compiled and created by a man attempting to expose Covenant for nearly a decade.

What are they trying to hide?

Another potential piece in the puzzle, Hale messaged a middle school basketball teammate on social media informing her that Hale planned to die by suicide:

“One day this will make more sense," Hale wrote. "I've left behind more than enough evidence behind.”

Something that could disprove this theory is if covenant was actually secondary target and the undisclosed school was the primary target.

This is unless the undisclosed school in someway had a connection to the abuse scandal.

Janespeaksup for that regional area eludes to multiple christian schools in that area, in that time period, having allegations of cover ups of sexual abuse.

As to why Hale would target kids when an adult would be the abuser: who knows. Anyone who would senselessly murder children and teachers isn't logical.

But in sum, only time and the manifesto will tell.

However, it looks like they’re gearing up to avoid releasing the manifesto.

Reposted from a reddit post. Very informative.

Not in the least bit informative. IMO it's just another reddit conspiracy theorist with wide eyed ideas that don't align with all the aspects of a topic. For example the poster's lousy yet absolutely invisible take on the question WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU KILL CHILDREN TO PUNISH A CHURCH FOR CHILD MOLESTATION?!!?!

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Biden should just buy up the ammunition. Melt it all down, cast it into a monument for the Blessed Gun Owner.

 

[Toni]

The Covenant Presbyterian Church and its church-run school, targeted in the tragic shooting, are at the center of a complex child sexual abuse scandal from 2002-2012.

A 2012 lawsuit alleges that defendants associated with Covenant, including Bachmann, Eades, Avery, and Robinson, were involved in concealing unlawful child sexual abuse by John Perry. The plaintiffs were unaware of the abuse until 2012.

By 2015, two lawsuits alleged child sexual misconduct by Perry. During divorce proceedings, Perry's ex-wife claimed his "inappropriate marital conduct" led to their separation, also as reported by the Arkansas Times.

John Perry was a prominent pastor who had co-authored several books with then Arkansas governor, Mike Huckabee.

The church allegedly used Perry's home as a "safe house" (on the back of his “good reputation”) for children they believed were mistreated by their parents.

This arrangement allowed the church to remove children from their homes and place them under Perry's care, raising serious concerns about the safety and protection of these vulnerable children in the hands of a confessed child molester.

In June 2009, a family sought help from Attorney Larry Crain after being silenced for raising concerns about children's safety in Perry's "safe house." Crain later filed a $3M lawsuit against the person who reported the abuse while representing Perry.

Additionally, the Davises sued Covenant Presbyterian Church and parishioner Dale Lewelling, accusing the church of covering up for confessed child molester John Perry and putting children in Perry's so-called "safe house."

The family claims they were harassed, assaulted, and threatened for raising concerns about the church's concealment of child sexual abuse.

Despite the scandal, local media in Nashville has not covered the stories involving John Perry, who admitted to sexually molesting his daughter in court.

Presbyterian Church Association was reportedly going to bring charges against Pastor Jim Bachmann of Covenant, another church member who was implicated in enabling the abuse. Yet, no one has been charged in connection with the child sexual abuse allegations and cover-up.

This leads to the question, when females only commit 2% of all mass shootings and have only committed 4 of the 147 school shootings before this event, could this have been a carefully plotted vengeance mission?

Did Hale decide to partake in a tragic act of vigilante justice to try and bring attention to sexual crimes for which no one had ever been forced to pay for?

The ages match up. Hale, born around 1994, would have been an elementary – middle schooler sometime between 2002-2012 when the alleged abuse happened. Covenant Presbyterian taught kids from K-6th grade. Could Hale have been a victim too?

Here is a document belonging to a database outlining the sequence of events of Covenant's sex crimes and cover-ups. It was compiled and created by a man attempting to expose Covenant for nearly a decade.

What are they trying to hide?

Another potential piece in the puzzle, Hale messaged a middle school basketball teammate on social media informing her that Hale planned to die by suicide:

“One day this will make more sense," Hale wrote. "I've left behind more than enough evidence behind.”

Something that could disprove this theory is if covenant was actually secondary target and the undisclosed school was the primary target.

This is unless the undisclosed school in someway had a connection to the abuse scandal.

Janespeaksup for that regional area eludes to multiple christian schools in that area, in that time period, having allegations of cover ups of sexual abuse.

As to why Hale would target kids when an adult would be the abuser: who knows. Anyone who would senselessly murder children and teachers isn't logical.

But in sum, only time and the manifesto will tell.

However, it looks like they’re gearing up to avoid releasing the manifesto.

Reposted from a reddit post. Very informative.

Not in the least bit informative. IMO it's just another reddit conspiracy theorist with wide eyed ideas that don't align with all the aspects of a topic. For example the poster's lousy yet absolutely invisible take on the question WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU KILL CHILDREN TO PUNISH A CHURCH FOR CHILD MOLESTATION?!!?!

I agree that this is probably just another reddit conspiracy theorist but to play along: Killing children would not be to punish them but to protect them from bad things, to play along with the conspiracy theorist: sexual abuse.

Of course this is sick, disordered thinking. What is even more sick and disordered is that guns are so very readily available in the US.

 

[Elixir]

WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU KILL CHILDREN TO PUNISH A CHURCH FOR CHILD MOLESTATION?!!?!

In order to SAVE them of course.
Not saying that’s how you save people, but that the depths of confusion that religious indoctrination can generate, have never been plumbed. Add some possible sexual abuse, and rationalizing such acts might be rather easy.

 

[Jarhyn]

WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU KILL CHILDREN TO PUNISH A CHURCH FOR CHILD MOLESTATION?!!?!

In order to SAVE them of course.
Not saying that’s how you save people, but that the depths of confusion that religious indoctrination can generate, have never been plumbed. Add some possible sexual abuse, and rationalizing such acts might be rather easy.

Personally my thought is "instability and inability to access any channel for redress".

As someone who was not treated well in highschool for reasons related to gender and sexuality, I can attest that the general source of torment, despite being enabled and encouraged by adults, are always going to be peers, not adults.

Often, rage can be directed away from inaccessible actors (community leaders, administration, and the church itself), towards the accessible ones, the peers who act as the mouthpieces for torment.

What we have here either way is as I noted: someone seeking redress for reasonable things in unreasonable ways, because they are not in a position to even know what a "reasonable redress" looks like, as they lack any valid life experience in the situation.

Of course, the solution here is to deny access to tools of violence and to design our social systems to prevent people from being held forcibly in an intolerable social environment.

I cannot imagine growing up in a Christian school as a trans person was at all enjoyable for them, especially one as associated as this one is with far-right extremism.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I was curious and did a quick dive. It looks like the entire complaint leveraged by Davies would eventually be thrown out of court. One portion of it did get get to the Appeals Court, but they reversed what little the trial court was willing to hear in the first place. The whole thing sounds like Llama Drama. Former member of the church getting upset. He was excommunicated by them. It sounds like they allege they called out the abuser... who apparently is big in Christian Right circles, John Perry. In one case, he was found to have molested a girl for three years (while she was 11 to 14), but it was past the statute of limitation according to a Nashville DA.

So the molestation was real, Austin sounds like a crackpot. Buzzfeed talked to the person that was molested and reference their comments in the story, but don't provide a name. She was a minor (hence the crime and all) so we'll not know who it was. But while I say crackpot, in this blog comment in 2021, he is still at it, which is either more or less evidence that they are a crackpot.

 

[Copernicus]

Despite three nine-year-olds being gunned down by a transgender shooter at a private Christian school in Nashville, activists are still rallying the troops to protest for a 'Trans Day of Vengeance' - months after raising money for firearms training. But despite rising political tensions across the country, which saw a press secretary for Arizona Democrat Governor post a Tweet about shooting transphobes, the Trans Radical Activist Network (TRAN) is pushing forward with their protest in DC. The Virginia chapter of the group held a 'dance party fundraiser' in Richmond 'benefiting firearm/self-defense training for trans-Virginians' on March 7, before the mass shooting had taken place.

Daily Mail

When you see the rabid, unhinged, hate fueled rhetoric aimed at the likes of J.K. Rowling or Kellie-Jay Keen it only becomes a matter of time before someone goes off at the deep end.

There is no evidence publicly available yet as to what the motive of the Nashville shooter was, but it almost certainly had nothing to do with hate-fueled rhetoric directed at JK Rowling or Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshul. What we can say with a fair degree of confidence is that, as long as guns are easily available for purchase by disturbed individuals in the US, there will be lots of injuries and deaths caused by shootings. It is the availability of weapons that is the real problem. There will always be people going through mental and emotional crises, but we don't need to provide them with a convenient means to commit mass murder.