Another Fucking Mass Shooting At US School

[Derec]

All that fuss over the type of rifle, and you didn't bother to wait until somebody explained why it was identified as an AR-15 or look up the information yourself. The police recovered the gun he used and revealed that it was an AR-15.

Did they do the ballistics that quickly? Or just assumed?
In any case, the media (esp. left-wing media like MSNBC) always make a big deal over AR15s but not when the weapon is a regular handgun. The reason is that they support the agenda of banning so-called "assault weapons"

That said, you are right that he could have used anything that shot bullets.

Exactly.

So why was it important to you to stress that he might not have been using an AR-15?

Because there is so much propaganda against those rifles out there. Because the Left is wasting effort and political capital on banning so-called "assault weapons" instead of focusing on legislation that may actually help with the problem of guns in wrong hands.

I guess it's because the AR-15 has become the favorite weapon of choice for mass murderers,

Not true even for mass shootings, and much less so for homicides in general. Most people killed by guns are not killed in mass shootings.

and that strengthens the case for a ban on these assault style weapons,

The case for the ban on these weapons is largely to wholly emotional and not based on facts.

which are designed to kill a lot of people in a short space of time.

As opposed to handguns which are designed to avoid killing people? And somehow still manage to be far more deadly in aggregate than rifles of any type.
You also have to consider replacement effect. Let's say so-called "assault weapons" were banned. Would an angry mass shooter like Audrey Hale (from the OP) or a drunk idiot like Francisco Oropesa just let it go or would they have used a different rifle or maybe just handguns? Audrey has three weapons, and only one of them was a scary-looking "assault rifle".
Columbine happened during the federal "assault weapons ban" btw. Virginia Tech happened after, but the shooter, Seung-Hui Cho, chose two handguns, and managed to kill a lot of people with them. More than five times more than Audrey, in fact.

In fact, that's exactly why they are favored by mass murderers. If the intent is to kill a lot of people quickly, then the AR-15 is a good choice. Along with lots of ammo and body armor.

Except that the numbers do not bear that out. The media is obsessed with AR-15s and will not stop focusing on that particular platform, but this obsession is misplaced.

 

[bilby]

All that fuss over the type of rifle, and you didn't bother to wait until somebody explained why it was identified as an AR-15 or look up the information yourself. The police recovered the gun he used and revealed that it was an AR-15.

Did they do the ballistics that quickly? Or just assumed?

I am not sure what "ballistics" are supposed to be needed in order to identify a gun that police have in their possession as an AR-15.

 

[Copernicus]

All that fuss over the type of rifle, and you didn't bother to wait until somebody explained why it was identified as an AR-15 or look up the information yourself. The police recovered the gun he used and revealed that it was an AR-15.

Did they do the ballistics that quickly? Or just assumed?
In any case, the media (esp. left-wing media like MSNBC) always make a big deal over AR15s but not when the weapon is a regular handgun. The reason is that they support the agenda of banning so-called "assault weapons"

I can only tell you what is in the AP report I quoted. They claim to have recovered the gun he used. Maybe they had good reasons that didn't require a ballistics test. Maybe they'll discover later that he used a different gun. Who cares? Oh, wait. You do. Because you are pursuing a different hobby horse--your anxiety over the fact that people want assault weapons and large ammunition clips banned. Sorry that it turned out to be just another mass murderer armed with an AR-15. Maybe we'll finally get a mass murder story someday where the killer uses a six-gun and manages to reload it really, really quickly. Then you'll be able to say "I told you so" to everyone.

That said, you are right that he could have used anything that shot bullets.

Exactly.

So why was it important to you to stress that he might not have been using an AR-15?

Because there is so much propaganda against those rifles out there. Because the Left is wasting effort and political capital on banning so-called "assault weapons" instead of focusing on legislation that may actually help with the problem of guns in wrong hands.

Exactly what I said. You get upset because of all these mass murderers using AR-15s, and you personally don't think it is going to help to keep those types of weapons out of the hands of mass murderers, even though they are designed for military, rather than civilian, use. A large number of Americans, including Republicans, believe that bans on assault weapons and accessories that convert guns into assault weapons, whether rifles or handguns, should be banned. That is what makes sense, if you have any interest in keeping gun out of the "wrong hands". The only "right hands" for such weapons are those specially trained to participate in battles against large numbers of enemies, not ordinary civilians.

I guess it's because the AR-15 has become the favorite weapon of choice for mass murderers,

Not true even for mass shootings, and much less so for homicides in general. Most people killed by guns are not killed in mass shootings.
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Oh, gosh. Pro-gun propaganda that focuses on statistics between 1998 and 2019, when the assault weapon ban ended after 2004 and sales started ramping up again. I'll have to retract my statement now, won't I? Any data on numbers of dead and wounded in those mass shootings, which could have involved as few as just 4 people? Nope.

and that strengthens the case for a ban on these assault style weapons,

The case for the ban on these weapons is largely to wholly emotional and not based on facts.

There is a lot of emotion on both sides of the debate. You wouldn't have tried so hard to change the topic, if it weren't. You are off on a rampage over assault weapon bans over a passing reference to another report of a mass murder with an AR-15. It now looks like he really did use an AR-15, but you are still mad about they fact that they mentioned it. They ought not to tell people such things, even if they are true, right?

You accuse others of being obsessed, but look at you.

 

[Copernicus]

I am not sure what "ballistics" are supposed to be needed in order to identify a gun that police have in their possession as an AR-15.

Derec is working on the theory that a ballistics test of the bullets fired into the neighbors may not have been from an assault rifle, thus proving that mass murderers sometimes prefer guns with less firepower or ammo capacity. He's counsel for the defense.

ETA: Defense of assault weapons, I mean.

 

[bilby]

I am not sure what "ballistics" are supposed to be needed in order to identify a gun that police have in their possession as an AR-15.

Derec is working on the theory that a ballistics test of the bullets fired into the neighbors may not have been from an assault rifle, thus proving that mass murderers sometimes prefer guns with less firepower or ammo capacity. He's counsel for the defense.

ETA: Defense of assault weapons, I mean.

I'm familiar with the idea that a defence can be mounted on behalf of the accused, but it seems very strange for anyone to mount a defence on behalf of the weapon.

 

[Copernicus]

I'm familiar with the idea that a defence can be mounted on behalf of the accused, but it seems very strange for anyone to mount a defence on behalf of the weapon.

Speaking on behalf of a majority of Americans, welcome to our world.

 

[Toni]

The suspect frequently fired his AK-15 in his yard. That’s an entirely different question: why was anyone allowed to fire a weapon for fun in a neighborhood of homes? That is inherently dangerous! Also something that police are often unwilling to confront.

He was frequently seen doing it and was prompted in his bloody rampage to murder 5 people when asked to not do it at night when the baby was trying to sleep. He used the same gun. There were survivors aka witnesses. Additionally, I would guess that there are records of him owning such a weapon.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The suspect frequently fired his AK-15 in his yard. That’s an entirely different question: why was anyone allowed to fire a weapon for fun in a neighborhood of homes? That is inherently dangerous! Also something that police are often unwilling to confront.

Yeah, the police often show reluctance to get involved with armed nut cases.

 

[Toni]

The suspect frequently fired his AK-15 in his yard. That’s an entirely different question: why was anyone allowed to fire a weapon for fun in a neighborhood of homes? That is inherently dangerous! Also something that police are often unwilling to confront.

Yeah, the police often show reluctance to get involved with armed nut cases.

I guess it’s easier and more in line with their job description to put out an APB for a mass shooter than to confront someone with a gun.

Maybe their union has stock in funeral homes? IDK..

All that fuss over the type of rifle, and you didn't bother to wait until somebody explained why it was identified as an AR-15 or look up the information yourself. The police recovered the gun he used and revealed that it was an AR-15.

Did they do the ballistics that quickly? Or just assumed?
In any case, the media (esp. left-wing media like MSNBC) always make a big deal over AR15s but not when the weapon is a regular handgun. The reason is that they support the agenda of banning so-called "assault weapons"

That said, you are right that he could have used anything that shot bullets.

Exactly.

So why was it important to you to stress that he might not have been using an AR-15?

Because there is so much propaganda against those rifles out there. Because the Left is wasting effort and political capital on banning so-called "assault weapons" instead of focusing on legislation that may actually help with the problem of guns in wrong hands.

I guess it's because the AR-15 has become the favorite weapon of choice for mass murderers,

Not true even for mass shootings, and much less so for homicides in general. Most people killed by guns are not killed in mass shootings.
View attachment 43139
View attachment 43138

and that strengthens the case for a ban on these assault style weapons,

The case for the ban on these weapons is largely to wholly emotional and not based on facts.

which are designed to kill a lot of people in a short space of time.

As opposed to handguns which are designed to avoid killing people? And somehow still manage to be far more deadly in aggregate than rifles of any type.
You also have to consider replacement effect. Let's say so-called "assault weapons" were banned. Would an angry mass shooter like Audrey Hale (from the OP) or a drunk idiot like Francisco Oropesa just let it go or would they have used a different rifle or maybe just handguns? Audrey has three weapons, and only one of them was a scary-looking "assault rifle".
Columbine happened during the federal "assault weapons ban" btw. Virginia Tech happened after, but the shooter, Seung-Hui Cho, chose two handguns, and managed to kill a lot of people with them. More than five times more than Audrey, in fact.

In fact, that's exactly why they are favored by mass murderers. If the intent is to kill a lot of people quickly, then the AR-15 is a good choice. Along with lots of ammo and body armor.

Except that the numbers do not bear that out. The media is obsessed with AR-15s and will not stop focusing on that particular platform, but this obsession is misplaced.

sure. It’s probably his OTHER gun not the one the next Gabor asked him not to forecso the baby could sleep.

So much better!!

 

[Politesse]

I am not sure what "ballistics" are supposed to be needed in order to identify a gun that police have in their possession as an AR-15.

Derec is working on the theory that a ballistics test of the bullets fired into the neighbors may not have been from an assault rifle, thus proving that mass murderers sometimes prefer guns with less firepower or ammo capacity. He's counsel for the defense.

ETA: Defense of assault weapons, I mean.

I'm familiar with the idea that a defence can be mounted on behalf of the accused, but it seems very strange for anyone to mount a defence on behalf of the weapon.

If the police can lay criminal charges against a firearm in rem, I don't see why a lawyer shouldn't be able defend it in the same capacity.

 

[Shadowy Man]

The suspect frequently fired his AK-15 in his yard. That’s an entirely different question: why was anyone allowed to fire a weapon for fun in a neighborhood of homes? That is inherently dangerous! Also something that police are often unwilling to confront.

Yeah, the police often show reluctance to get involved with armed nut cases.

Good thing then that are laws are so lax for these nut cases.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The suspect frequently fired his AK-15 in his yard. That’s an entirely different question: why was anyone allowed to fire a weapon for fun in a neighborhood of homes? That is inherently dangerous! Also something that police are often unwilling to confront.

Yeah, the police often show reluctance to get involved with armed nut cases.

Because of their pride in the 2nd Amendment... or because they are scared to death they'll get murdered?

Seems a disconnect in the law if the later.

 

[lpetrich]

That's where Tasers and other low-lethality and nonlethal weapons come in. One should be able to subdue someone without killing them, and police departments should emphasize their use a LOT more.

Like this: Bodycam Shows Police Tasing Armed Woman in Florida Walmart - YouTube

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Or maybe not a lot more. When you teach a new officer that they have no control of a situation immediately once on site, and they'll likely resort to the use of tasers or guns... what is going to happen?

Deescalation is a trick that we need to be relying on more.

 

[Copernicus]

I did a little more research on Oropesa's background and the AR-15. It turns out that he was known by the police to use a ".223 rifle", which is a typical description of an AR-15, since that is the most popular ammunition for these guns. The police visited him multiple times because of complaints, but had apparently lost interest in continuing with those visits. This is Texas, so they may have felt powerless to do anything about him. He seems to be in the US illegally and has multiple arrests for illegal re-entry in his record.

The suspect frequently fired his AK-15 in his yard. That’s an entirely different question: why was anyone allowed to fire a weapon for fun in a neighborhood of homes? That is inherently dangerous! Also something that police are often unwilling to confront.

Yeah, the police often show reluctance to get involved with armed nut cases.

Because of their pride in the 2nd Amendment... or because they are scared to death they'll get murdered?

Seems a disconnect in the law if the later.

This guy had been deported 4 times in the past, and the police had responded to complaints of him being a local menace with his constant firing of his AR-15. Why had they never bothered to look the guy up to see if he had a record and a legal right to own his guns? They could have done that from the safety of the police station. This is the Uvalde state with Republicans in full charge for a long time. Given all their issues with illegal immigration and crime, what have they done to make the place safer? They've made it easier for people like this man to arm himself with an assault weapon, threaten his neighbors, and finally end up killing them. The governor and other Republican officials are now touting the fact that he was an illegal immigrant and claiming that the victims were, too. Because that is what gets them re-elected so that they can continue to do nothing about the problem except use it to scare people into voting for them, because they blame Democrats for all the illegal immigrants (the ones seeking asylum from violence in their own countries and entering the US legally, that is).

 

[Loren Pechtel]

That's where Tasers and other low-lethality and nonlethal weapons come in. One should be able to subdue someone without killing them, and police departments should emphasize their use a LOT more.

Like this: Bodycam Shows Police Tasing Armed Woman in Florida Walmart - YouTube

Note what actually happens in that video you think supports your position:

First, the officer is holding her at gunpoint. Not taser. When another officer arrives (read the text, they say what's going on offscreen) he then switches to a taser because the other officer has a gun on her. Tasers can be used against knives (and other contact weapons) in standoffs when backed up by another officer with a gun. That does not mean you can use a taser vs weapons in the general case!

 

[Loren Pechtel]

This guy had been deported 4 times in the past, and the police had responded to complaints of him being a local menace with his constant firing of his AR-15. Why had they never bothered to look the guy up to see if he had a record and a legal right to own his guns? They could have done that from the safety of the police station. This is the Uvalde state with Republicans in full charge for a long time. Given all their issues with illegal immigration and crime, what have they done to make the place safer? They've made it easier for people like this man to arm himself with an assault weapon, threaten his neighbors, and finally end up killing them. The governor and other Republican officials are now touting the fact that he was an illegal immigrant and claiming that the victims were, too. Because that is what gets them re-elected so that they can continue to do nothing about the problem except use it to scare people into voting for them, because they blame Democrats for all the illegal immigrants (the ones seeking asylum from violence in their own countries and entering the US legally, that is).

If the neighbors were illegals that might explain the reaction--they weren't going to bother to deal with someone that was only being a problem for illegals.

 

[Copernicus]

It turns out that at least one of the victims was a perfectly legal permanent resident of the United States. The first thing that Abbott thought was to use this tragedy to help with his campaign theme of being upset about all the illegal immigrants he has had to deal with. He has issued a correction, but he did not take down his misleading tweet.

Texas Gov. Abbott issues retraction after calling mass shooting victims 'illegal immigrants'​

 

[southernhybrid]

Right now, there is an active shooter in Atlanta on Peachtree st. Multiple people have been injured and the suspect is still at large.

https://www.ajc.com/news/crime/brea...-multiple-injured/K3RUNJ64ERFCFMA4TFOCAYVV5Q/

Atlanta police have issued a shelter in place order while they investigate a report of an active shooter in Midtown. Multiple people have been injured, police confirmed.

 

[southernhybrid]

For those not familiar with Atlanta, this is going on in the heart of the city, on one of the busiest streets, right at lunchtime. It never ends, does it?

Officers have responded inside the Northside Hospital Midtown medical office building at 1110 West Peachtree Street. There is a large contingency of heavily armed officers outside.

“We are aware of multiple people injured,” police tweeted at 12:42 p.m. “No suspect is in custody.”