Breakdown In Civil Order

[TSwizzle]

You tolerate, excuse and to a point deny the conditions the "homeless" have to endure.

I most certainly do not.

Oh yes you do! You consistently sneer at the people who complain about the "homeless" that set up encampments, defecate in the streets, ruin public spaces, you don't have a problem with local councils allowing open drug use in town centers, you downplay the havoc that this causes to the general public to the extent you are in denial it is in fact a problem.

I expect you did and would again.

Absolutely. Because he is actually doing something about the homelessness crisis.

Yes, making it WORSE! There are more "homeless" now than ever! Newsom is an abject failure.

The dead "homeless" are just collateral damage I guess.

It's pretty hard to take you seriously when you put sarcasm quotes around the very name of the problem you're accusing me of not taking seriously enough. Projection, much?

So be it.

It's definitely true that I have some contempt for people who sneer and complain about homelessness but do nothing whatsoever about it.

Unlike you, I don't vote for the incompetent assholes that make things worse.

 

[Politesse]

You tolerate, excuse and to a point deny the conditions the "homeless" have to endure.

I most certainly do not.

Oh yes you do! You consistently sneer at the people who complain about the "homeless" that set up encampments, defecate in the streets, ruin public spaces, you don't have a problem with local councils allowing open drug use in town centers, you downplay the havoc that this causes to the general public to the extent you are in denial it is in fact a problem.

I expect you did and would again.

Absolutely. Because he is actually doing something about the homelessness crisis.

Yes, making it WORSE! There are more "homeless" now than ever! Newsom is an abject failure.

The dead "homeless" are just collateral damage I guess.

It's pretty hard to take you seriously when you put sarcasm quotes around the very name of the problem you're accusing me of not taking seriously enough. Projection, much?

So be it.

It's definitely true that I have some contempt for people who sneer and complain about homelessness but do nothing whatsoever about it.

Unlike you, I don't vote for the incompetent assholes that make things worse.

So, that's your idea of action? Voting for Larry Elder, who had no plan at all for dealing with the enduring problem of unhomed Californians except to end CEQA? And you have done nothing else?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Please name an city of any size that does not have a scary alley or two.

Well, just how are you interpreting "any size"?

Nothing, Arizona has no scary alleys--it doesn't have any alleys. It has a size (zero), that meets the definition of "any".

If the only way you can think to answer the question is to play dumb about its parameters, well... message received.

No--I was joking. Of course any substantial city has some scary alleys. It's just the way you worded it left open a different interpretation and I decided to take you up on that opposite meaning.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

With LA Country handing out drug paraphernalia (needles, meth pipes, lip balm!) I wonder if their intent isn't to just kill off the "homeless";

Clean needles means fewer ending up in the hospital from infections. That's a win for everybody.

I lean towards needle exchange programs, though--makes the addicts clean up their needles rather than leave them.

 

[cycomiko]

Homeless people have been pictured slumped over in the streets of Seattle and openly shooting up drugs, after the city's officials chose not to make public drug use illegal. Earlier this month, the Seattle City Council voted not to pass legislation that would have allowed the City Attorney's Office to prosecute public drug use cases. New pictures show homeless people openly abusing drugs on the streets of the Washington state city. In one, a man can be seen using a hypodermic needle to inject drugs into his hand while propped outside a liquor store.

Daily Mail

What kind of hellish dystopian nightmare do these dimwits want to get to before someone sees sense and puts a stop to it?

As a resident of WA who is in Seattle 4-5 days per week, I can assure you it's not as dystopian as your awful choice of news provider leads you to believe.

From the footage and the pictures I have seen of some areas, it looks pretty hellish to me. But just because you are ok with it doesn't mean everyone is.

This is a good point. It's not for everyone. I grew up in a big city (Houston) so I'm not scared of walking past, or even interacting, with a homeless person or a drug addict. Seattle is a big place and I'm sure the photos that the daily fail has posted to scare people like you were cherry picked from certain blocks downtown. I'll keep enjoying the city that I still consider home and you can stay away. Whatever keeps the line shorter at the breweries and makes it easier to get a reservation at the sushi joint.

 

[Politesse]

Some good news:

US Murder Rate Plummets

Murder is down about 12 percent year-to-date in more than 90 cities that have released data for 2023, compared with data as of the same date in 2022. Big cities tend to slightly amplify the national trend—a 5 percent decline in murder rates in big cities would likely translate to a smaller decline nationally. But even so, the drop shown in the preliminary data is astonishing.

And from the Times, on the same subject:

Policy seems to have played a role as well, as cities have moved to hire more police officers and embraced new anti-violence strategies. Combined, these forces have created the possibility that 2023 will bring one of the largest drops in murder since the U.S. began keeping national statistics more than 60 years ago.

They believe that the COVID recovery, decreased tensions as the murders of Floyd et al become increasingly distant history, and the above-mentioned changes to police policy are the primary factors in this drop.

 

[Politesse]

I'll keep enjoying the city that I still consider home and you can stay away. Whatever keeps the line shorter at the breweries and makes it easier to get a reservation at the sushi joint.

I feel that way whenever the Chronicle is doing its monthly panic-mongering article about tech people leaving SF "in droves"... if they want to maybe hurry up about it, that would be great! Maybe someday Atelier Crenn will have seats you don't have to stay up til midnight on the first Tuesday of the month to book for the following year, haha.

 

[TSwizzle]

I grew up in a big city (Houston) so I'm not scared of walking past, or even interacting, with a homeless person or a drug addict.

I guess you're just one of these people that doesn't mind the homeless dying in the streets, living in their own filth, urinating and defecating in the doorways of businesses or breaking into cars, starting fires, leaving drug paraphernalia in public spaces etc.

In summary, providing the homeless are not a hinderance to cycomiko getting beer and sushsi, there is no problem.

 

[Politesse]

I guess you're just one of these people that doesn't mind the homeless dying in the streets, living in their own filth, urinating and defecating in the doorways of businesses or breaking into cars, starting fires, leaving drug paraphernalia in public spaces etc.

You don't have to hate the place you live to care genuinely about the problems it is facing. In fact, it doesn't even help.

 

[TSwizzle]

I guess you're just one of these people that doesn't mind the homeless dying in the streets, living in their own filth, urinating and defecating in the doorways of businesses or breaking into cars, starting fires, leaving drug paraphernalia in public spaces etc.

You don't have to hate the place you live to care genuinely about the problems it is facing. In fact, it doesn't even help.

Who could hate a place that has beer and sushi? C'mon man!

 

[Gospel]

I guess you're just one of these people that doesn't mind the homeless dying in the streets, living in their own filth, urinating and defecating in the doorways of businesses or breaking into cars, starting fires, leaving drug paraphernalia in public spaces etc.

You don't have to hate the place you live to care genuinely about the problems it is facing. In fact, it doesn't even help.

Who could hate a place that has beer and sushi? C'mon man!

Word up homie! Who wouldn't help or genuinely care about a place that has those? I wonder what that help and genuine care looks like. Any idea?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I grew up in a big city (Houston) so I'm not scared of walking past, or even interacting, with a homeless person or a drug addict.

I guess you're just one of these people that doesn't mind the homeless dying in the streets, living in their own filth, urinating and defecating in the doorways of businesses or breaking into cars, starting fires, leaving drug paraphernalia in public spaces etc.

You don't seem interested in solving the issue, just want to piss on about it, because the alt-right cult newsletter The Daily Mail says to piss on about it.

I can't wait to find out what the alt-right cult newsletter tells you to piss on about in 6 months... I'm sure it'll be direly important to you.

 

[Politesse]

Why Republicans should not and cannot be relied upon to "solve homelessness":

What Americans say the government should do about the homeless | YouGov

More than a quarter of Republicans (27%) say America’s local governments have “no obligation” to the homeless.

today.yougov.com

Democrats are much less likely (5%) to say local governments have “no obligation” to the homeless. Only 3% say homeless people “should be the responsibility of charities,” and 2% say sleeping on the streets should be illegal. Three in ten (30%) Democrats believe all homeless people should be provided beds in a shelter by their local government, a sentiment that just 12% of Republicans agree with.

The most-likely common political ground: most Republicans, Democrats, and Independents say some homeless people should be provided beds and the government should give assistance to charities where possible. Half of Republicans (50%) support a split of duties between government and charities compared to 48% of Independents and 45% of Democrats.

Luckily, most Americans aren't actually strongly committed to any Party, and most therefore embrace the obvious step of at least providing the help that the government already provides: some limited government aid backed up by an alphabet soup of charitable organizations. While it might be remarked that the status quo hasn't exactly been working, at least keeping it around is a better idea than nothing.

But then you get to more substantive measures that only the most extreme partisans will support.

On the left:
Address homelessness by giving currently unhomed people homes to live in on the government's dime.

On the right:
Address homelessness by giving currently unhomed people jail cells to live in on the government's dime.

This clarifies for me at least which "side" of the political spectrum offers the only truly liveable future, and how little it helps to have us all on "sides" in the first place. I hate it when Americans as people have a genuine and clear consensus on policy, but their parties refuse to represent them honestly because of partisan bickering and corporate/religious special interests hijacking said parties' policies.

 

[Gospel]

They don't want to pay for homeless shelters, they want to pay for the homeless to be sheltered in jail.

 

[Politesse]

They don't want to pay for homeless shelters, they want to pay for the homeless to be sheltered in jail.

Well, and the court system on the way in and out. They want to buy them lawyers, not just cells. A much more expensive proposition.

I mean, they probably don't want to buy them lawyers, but if their actual wet dream is incarceration without representation, there's a lot of constitutional law they are going to have to overturn first. Better buy Clarence Thomas a fourth house before even getting started on that one.

 

[TSwizzle]

No sooner do the "homeless" encampments get torn down, they pop up again;

Los Angeles city fathers are playing a game of cat and mouse with dozens of homeless – clearing their squalid encampments only for them to see them return within hours. Often the city – long plagued with its Skid Row – gives people just 20 minutes to pack their belongings and leave in street-wide cleanup operations but neighbors say they're soon back. Residents also claim the city is failing to offer accommodation to those they move along, despite a new policy by Mayor Karen Bass to reduce the so-called ‘sweeps’ and help provide temporary housing. Business owners on South Hill Street in Downtown Los Angeles have had a front row seat to the escalating game between the city's sanitation department and the homeless population. They complain of human feces dumped in the street, needles and trash on the ground, dangerous dogs, drug deals and piles of stolen bikes. They say homeless people have been hacking fire hydrants for water and sparking fires from street lights tapped to power A/C, sound speakers, grills – and in one case a jacuzzi. One artist with a studio on South Hill photographed city sanitation workers breaking down and clearing up the camps lining his street on May 31 with just a few minutes’ notice. But when 58-year-old Nick Stern returned the next morning to the site, just a few blocks from the University of Southern California campus, he found it already littered with makeshift tents and trash again. Stern said he has seen the number of homeless people increase, and the cleanup efforts become increasingly futile, in the five years he has used the studio on the corner of South Hill and West 33rd. ‘These clearances have been going on all that time. They always come back. But it’s within hours now,’ he said. ‘Before the big clean-up a couple weeks ago, there were probably 15 people split between about eight shelters. ‘Los Angeles is known for homelessness. But over these five years it’s grown – both the number of encampments and density. ‘Sometimes they have a barbecue grill set up, electricity, water. So they tend to be drifting towards a more permanent status.’

Daily Mail

 

[Politesse]

No sooner do the "homeless" encampments get torn down, they pop up again;

It's almost as though tearing down encampments as they appear and arresting the people who live in them does jack shit to actually address the root causes of homelessness, so all of this police brutality is a monumental a waste of resources even if you aren't willing to ask questions about the ethics of govenment-sponsored theft and assualt.

(As would would seem motherfucking obvious to anyone who isn't a clueless Republican or a NIMBY city "liberal" high on technically legal anti-depressants.)

 

[cycomiko]

I grew up in a big city (Houston) so I'm not scared of walking past, or even interacting, with a homeless person or a drug addict.

I guess you're just one of these people that doesn't mind the homeless dying in the streets, living in their own filth, urinating and defecating in the doorways of businesses or breaking into cars, starting fires, leaving drug paraphernalia in public spaces etc.

In summary, providing the homeless are not a hinderance to cycomiko getting beer and sushsi, there is no problem.

I hope you limbered up before that stretch. Nobody is ok with any of the stuff you listed and every big city deals with such things. However, arresting away the homeless or drug problems doesn't work so some cities are trying alternatives. They may not all work but they will provide data that may point to a different solution.

My snide remark was that YOU should remain scared and stay away so there's fewer tourist in the way. I mean, there's just shit and needles everywhere and we shouldn't live our lives until it's 100% fixed. If you ever work up the courage to visit our thunderdome of a state, my favorite sushi place, Billy Beach (all day happy hour on sundays), is within walking distance of my favorite brewery, Reuben's. And once your at Rueben's there's l like 12 other breweries within a 1mile radius. I'll buy you a beer but the sashimi is your responsibility.

I just moved back to the PNW from Salt Lake City and, guess what, Utah has homeless everywhere too. Now I live in a small town called Enumclaw at the base of the Cascades and there's homeless there too.

 

[Politesse]

Ah, Enumclaw! I went there by accident, once. Lovely town. Though I've never quite subscribed to the logic of building a settlement atop a recent lahar.

 

[TSwizzle]

No sooner do the "homeless" encampments get torn down, they pop up again;

It's almost as though tearing down encampments as they appear and arresting the people who live in them does jack shit to actually address the root causes of homelessness, so all of this police brutality is a monumental a waste of resources even if you aren't willing to ask questions about the ethics of govenment-sponsored theft and assualt.

(As would would seem motherfucking obvious to anyone who isn't a clueless Republican or a NIMBY city "liberal" high on technically legal anti-depressants.)

Unless I am mistaken, Karen Bass is a democrat. As is CA governor Gavin Newsom.