Breakdown In Civil Order

[TSwizzle]

Homeless people have been pictured slumped over in the streets of Seattle and openly shooting up drugs, after the city's officials chose not to make public drug use illegal. Earlier this month, the Seattle City Council voted not to pass legislation that would have allowed the City Attorney's Office to prosecute public drug use cases. New pictures show homeless people openly abusing drugs on the streets of the Washington state city. In one, a man can be seen using a hypodermic needle to inject drugs into his hand while propped outside a liquor store.

Daily Mail

What kind of hellish dystopian nightmare do these dimwits want to get to before someone sees sense and puts a stop to it?

As a resident of WA who is in Seattle 4-5 days per week, I can assure you it's not as dystopian as your awful choice of news provider leads you to believe.

From the footage and the pictures I have seen of some areas, it looks pretty hellish to me. But just because you are ok with it doesn't mean everyone is.

 

[laughing dog]

Of the homeless who said they were employed, 56% reported a monthly income between $450 and $1,499. Only 6% of those who said they were employed reported incomes of less than $99 monthly, the report added.

ffs, who considers an income of $99 as being full time employed? Unless of course you consider taking soda cans to the recycle center for the $.05 CRV as being "employed".

That's the entire problem, dude. A person working full time should not, in fact, be desperately poor.

A monthly income of between $450 and $1,499 doesn't sound like a full time job. That's not even CA minimum wage.

That was for those who said they were employed. "Employed" does not exclusively mean full time employment.

 

[Politesse]

Homeless people have been pictured slumped over in the streets of Seattle and openly shooting up drugs, after the city's officials chose not to make public drug use illegal. Earlier this month, the Seattle City Council voted not to pass legislation that would have allowed the City Attorney's Office to prosecute public drug use cases. New pictures show homeless people openly abusing drugs on the streets of the Washington state city. In one, a man can be seen using a hypodermic needle to inject drugs into his hand while propped outside a liquor store.

Daily Mail

What kind of hellish dystopian nightmare do these dimwits want to get to before someone sees sense and puts a stop to it?

As a resident of WA who is in Seattle 4-5 days per week, I can assure you it's not as dystopian as your awful choice of news provider leads you to believe.

From the footage and the pictures I have seen of some areas, it looks pretty hellish to me. But just because you are ok with it doesn't mean everyone is.

Please name an city of any size that does not have a scary alley or two.

 

[Elixir]

Homeless people have been pictured slumped over in the streets of Seattle and openly shooting up drugs, after the city's officials chose not to make public drug use illegal. Earlier this month, the Seattle City Council voted not to pass legislation that would have allowed the City Attorney's Office to prosecute public drug use cases. New pictures show homeless people openly abusing drugs on the streets of the Washington state city. In one, a man can be seen using a hypodermic needle to inject drugs into his hand while propped outside a liquor store.

Daily Mail

What kind of hellish dystopian nightmare do these dimwits want to get to before someone sees sense and puts a stop to it?

As a resident of WA who is in Seattle 4-5 days per week, I can assure you it's not as dystopian as your awful choice of news provider leads you to believe.

From the footage and the pictures I have seen of some areas, it looks pretty hellish to me. But just because you are ok with it doesn't mean everyone is.

Wonder if Swiz has ever even been to Seattle. I love it there. Great restaurants!
It is a little, uh, diverse though. Asians, Mexicans and who knows what all over the place. I can see how that might make a white bread trumpsucker kind of uncomfortable. But it’s such a great city- well worth putting up with a little discomfort.

 

[Politesse]

One of my favorite cities.

Though it does share one problem with San Francisco - the big tourist magnet districts are in close proximity to some of the less great parts of town, so people can come away with a certain impression especially if the Daily Mail set their initial expectations. Also, two cities that try to avoid "arresting away their problems".

 

[Politesse]

Homeless people have been pictured slumped over in the streets of Seattle and openly shooting up drugs, after the city's officials chose not to make public drug use illegal. Earlier this month, the Seattle City Council voted not to pass legislation that would have allowed the City Attorney's Office to prosecute public drug use cases. New pictures show homeless people openly abusing drugs on the streets of the Washington state city. In one, a man can be seen using a hypodermic needle to inject drugs into his hand while propped outside a liquor store.

Daily Mail

What kind of hellish dystopian nightmare do these dimwits want to get to before someone sees sense and puts a stop to it?

As a resident of WA who is in Seattle 4-5 days per week, I can assure you it's not as dystopian as your awful choice of news provider leads you to believe.

From the footage and the pictures I have seen of some areas, it looks pretty hellish to me. But just because you are ok with it doesn't mean everyone is.

Please name an city of any size that does not have a scary alley or two.

Ah, the eye roll again. You know I'm not fooled into thinking you have a point whenever you can't think of an answer, right? Name any city, anywhere in the world, that has more than 100,000 people but no "bad neighborhoods" where scary moving pictures could be acquired.

 

[TSwizzle]

Homeless people have been pictured slumped over in the streets of Seattle and openly shooting up drugs, after the city's officials chose not to make public drug use illegal. Earlier this month, the Seattle City Council voted not to pass legislation that would have allowed the City Attorney's Office to prosecute public drug use cases. New pictures show homeless people openly abusing drugs on the streets of the Washington state city. In one, a man can be seen using a hypodermic needle to inject drugs into his hand while propped outside a liquor store.

Daily Mail

What kind of hellish dystopian nightmare do these dimwits want to get to before someone sees sense and puts a stop to it?

As a resident of WA who is in Seattle 4-5 days per week, I can assure you it's not as dystopian as your awful choice of news provider leads you to believe.

From the footage and the pictures I have seen of some areas, it looks pretty hellish to me. But just because you are ok with it doesn't mean everyone is.

Please name an city of any size that does not have a scary alley or two.

Ah, the eye roll again. You know I'm not fooled into thinking you have a point whenever you can't think of an answer, right? Name any city, anywhere in the world, that has more than 100,000 people but no "bad neighborhoods" where scary moving pictures could be acquired.

It is a dumb question. "Bad neighborhoods" has nothing to do with the tens of thousands of people living (and many dying) in their own filth on the streets of cities in the USA.

 

[Politesse]

Homeless people have been pictured slumped over in the streets of Seattle and openly shooting up drugs, after the city's officials chose not to make public drug use illegal. Earlier this month, the Seattle City Council voted not to pass legislation that would have allowed the City Attorney's Office to prosecute public drug use cases. New pictures show homeless people openly abusing drugs on the streets of the Washington state city. In one, a man can be seen using a hypodermic needle to inject drugs into his hand while propped outside a liquor store.

Daily Mail

What kind of hellish dystopian nightmare do these dimwits want to get to before someone sees sense and puts a stop to it?

As a resident of WA who is in Seattle 4-5 days per week, I can assure you it's not as dystopian as your awful choice of news provider leads you to believe.

From the footage and the pictures I have seen of some areas, it looks pretty hellish to me. But just because you are ok with it doesn't mean everyone is.

Please name an city of any size that does not have a scary alley or two.

Ah, the eye roll again. You know I'm not fooled into thinking you have a point whenever you can't think of an answer, right? Name any city, anywhere in the world, that has more than 100,000 people but no "bad neighborhoods" where scary moving pictures could be acquired.

It is a dumb question. "Bad neighborhoods" has nothing to do with the tens of thousands of people living (and many dying) in their own filth on the streets of cities in the USA.

I readily and happily agree that it is a dumb question, because that's the only way to critique an assinine point. If you're citing some video you saw as evidence of the failure of specific policies, we need to ask whether a video of a "spoooooky neighborhood" is anything other than evidence of a videographer's ability to find a sufficiently scary looking street corner to film it from, a capacity they would enjoy no matter what city they are in or what policies its city council embraces. Name a metropole without a slum, and we can proceed with a more nuanced discussion of how it achieved that feat.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The root of the problem: when you're working full time, but cannot afford the basic necessities of life, what ground is there for maintaining a civil society?

Ask The Standard: How Many Homeless People in SF Have Jobs?

Contrary to popular belief, some of San Francisco's unhoused are employed.

sfstandard.com

"According to the San Francisco Department of Homelessness and Supportive Housing’s 2022 Point-in-Time Count report, about 17% of San Francisco’s 7,754 homeless people said they were employed full-time, part-time or sporadically."

That proves nothing. How many are full time vs how many are sporadically and how sporadic is "sporadically"??

There will of course be a few "homeless" people who have good jobs. Something happens to their living situation that they must suddenly leave and they couchsurf until they can arrange new accommodations.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Please name an city of any size that does not have a scary alley or two.

Well, just how are you interpreting "any size"?

Nothing, Arizona has no scary alleys--it doesn't have any alleys. It has a size (zero), that meets the definition of "any".

 

[Politesse]

Please name an city of any size that does not have a scary alley or two.

Well, just how are you interpreting "any size"?

Nothing, Arizona has no scary alleys--it doesn't have any alleys. It has a size (zero), that meets the definition of "any".

If the only way you can think to answer the question is to play dumb about its parameters, well... message received.

But, okay. The two favorite targets of this thread, Seattle and San Francisco, are both quite similar cities demographically. Both have of an official population fluctuating around 800,000, and are surrounded by dense urban regions of a several million. Both cities enjoy a famously complex relationship with relatively proximate fellow metropolitan centers (San Jose and Vancouver respectfully). Logic suggests that cities in as similar a situation as possible but without equivalent challenges would make Tswizzle's argument for their apparently unforgivable squalor seem more convincing. Denver, El Paso, and Indianapolis, for instance, are some example cities that might provide good analogues to Seattle and San Francisco. Would you like to make the case that any or all of of those three cities lack neighborhoods that could produce some "scary footage"? Or suggest an analogous city of your own. This is an OPEN FORUM.

 

[TSwizzle]

With LA Country handing out drug paraphernalia (needles, meth pipes, lip balm!) I wonder if their intent isn't to just kill off the "homeless";

The death toll among LA County's homeless jumped from less than 1,300 in 2019 to more than 2,200 in 2021, largely fueled by a dramatic rise in drug overdoses, according to a Public Health report released Friday. After a 29 percent increase from 658 homeless deaths in 2014 to 1,289 in 2019, the death toll spiked 55 percent in just two years to 2,201, according to the report from LA County's Department of Public Health (DPH). "The primary driver of this recent increase was drug overdoses, which comprised 37 percent of all (homeless) deaths in 2020-21 combined," the report said. "The specific drug most responsible for this increase was fentanyl," Health officials said, adding that its involvement in homeless overdose deaths almost tripled from 2019 to 2021. While the mortality rate among LA County's homeless population was 3.8 times higher than for the population at large, homeless persons were 38.9 times more likely to die from an overdose. Of the 4,012 homeless persons who died in 2020 and 2021 combined, 1,488 died of unintentional overdoses from drugs or alcohol or both, according to the report. Fentanyl "has rapidly replaced other opioids among" homeless men, especial among White men, whose "rate of overdose deaths was almost twice as high" as that of Blacks and Latinos.

News

June 23, 2023 - Early this morning, John Alle, founding member of the Santa Monica Coalition, was at his property on the Third Street Promenade after a call from his security team. While there, he became aware another overdose had occurred in Palisades Park. The victim was found directly across from the Shore Hotel and Blue Plate Oysterette Restaurant. This afternoon there will be another distribution of free, clean needles, synthetic meth, and Narcan at several locations in Santa Monica, including Palisades Park. The alleged "harm reduction" program is run by the Los Angeles County Department of Health, headed by Barbara Ferrer, PhD, MPH, MEd. In an interview with members of the Santa Monica Coalition, Ferrer was unable to provide data regarding the health status of the individuals to whom drug paraphernalia is given, their names, housing status, or any data to support the benefits of the program, such as HIV distribution rates in the county. Free needles are distributed also in Reed and Tongva Parks. Although the distributors are supposed to stay in their vans, the workers bring the kits out of the vans and, according to Alle, offered him one when he was sitting in the park.

News

Way to go Babs!!

 

[Politesse]

With LA Country handing out drug paraphernalia (needles, meth pipes, lip balm!) I wonder if their intent isn't to just kill off the "homeless";

The death toll among LA County's homeless jumped from less than 1,300 in 2019 to more than 2,200 in 2021, largely fueled by a dramatic rise in drug overdoses, according to a Public Health report released Friday. After a 29 percent increase from 658 homeless deaths in 2014 to 1,289 in 2019, the death toll spiked 55 percent in just two years to 2,201, according to the report from LA County's Department of Public Health (DPH). "The primary driver of this recent increase was drug overdoses, which comprised 37 percent of all (homeless) deaths in 2020-21 combined," the report said. "The specific drug most responsible for this increase was fentanyl," Health officials said, adding that its involvement in homeless overdose deaths almost tripled from 2019 to 2021. While the mortality rate among LA County's homeless population was 3.8 times higher than for the population at large, homeless persons were 38.9 times more likely to die from an overdose. Of the 4,012 homeless persons who died in 2020 and 2021 combined, 1,488 died of unintentional overdoses from drugs or alcohol or both, according to the report. Fentanyl "has rapidly replaced other opioids among" homeless men, especial among White men, whose "rate of overdose deaths was almost twice as high" as that of Blacks and Latinos.

News

June 23, 2023 - Early this morning, John Alle, founding member of the Santa Monica Coalition, was at his property on the Third Street Promenade after a call from his security team. While there, he became aware another overdose had occurred in Palisades Park. The victim was found directly across from the Shore Hotel and Blue Plate Oysterette Restaurant. This afternoon there will be another distribution of free, clean needles, synthetic meth, and Narcan at several locations in Santa Monica, including Palisades Park. The alleged "harm reduction" program is run by the Los Angeles County Department of Health, headed by Barbara Ferrer, PhD, MPH, MEd. In an interview with members of the Santa Monica Coalition, Ferrer was unable to provide data regarding the health status of the individuals to whom drug paraphernalia is given, their names, housing status, or any data to support the benefits of the program, such as HIV distribution rates in the county. Free needles are distributed also in Reed and Tongva Parks. Although the distributors are supposed to stay in their vans, the workers bring the kits out of the vans and, according to Alle, offered him one when he was sitting in the park.

News

Way to go Babs!!

"Where's the evidence that this will help?" cries a dude who think just throwing everyone in jail will solve drugs somehow.

 

[TSwizzle]

"Where's the evidence that this will help?" cries a dude who think just throwing everyone in jail will solve drugs somehow.

Evidence is of no concern to the likes of "Dr" Ferrer. Or you.

This state of affairs is disgraceful but you seem to be willing to tolerate it or at least excuse it for some perverse reason. Your hatred of "conservaitives" probably.

 

[Politesse]

"Where's the evidence that this will help?" cries a dude who think just throwing everyone in jail will solve drugs somehow.

Evidence is of no concern to the likes of "Dr" Ferrer. Or you.

This state of affairs is disgraceful but you seem to be willing to tolerate it or at least excuse it for some perverse reason. Your hatred of "conservaitives" probably.

"Tolerate" what? I keep asking you to clarify what real solutions you suggest, and you can produce nothing at all.

I do not, for the record, approve of fatal fentanyl overdoses. But your "solutions", when you bother to provide any at all, are not grounded in any sort of observable reality.

 

[TSwizzle]

"Where's the evidence that this will help?" cries a dude who think just throwing everyone in jail will solve drugs somehow.

Evidence is of no concern to the likes of "Dr" Ferrer. Or you.

This state of affairs is disgraceful but you seem to be willing to tolerate it or at least excuse it for some perverse reason. Your hatred of "conservaitives" probably.

"Tolerate" what?

You tolerate, excuse and to a point deny the conditions the "homeless" have to endure.

I keep asking you to clarify what real solutions you suggest, and you can produce nothing at all.

Don't blame me, I didn't vote for Newsom. I expect you did and would again.

I do not, for the record, approve of fatal fentanyl overdoses. But your "solutions", when you bother to provide any at all, are not grounded in any sort of observable reality.

The dead "homeless" are just collateral damage I guess.

 

[Politesse]

You tolerate, excuse and to a point deny the conditions the "homeless" have to endure.

I most certainly do not.

I expect you did and would again.

Absolutely. Because he is actually doing something about the homelessness crisis.

The dead "homeless" are just collateral damage I guess.

It's pretty hard to take you seriously when you put sarcasm quotes around the very name of the problem you're accusing me of not taking seriously enough. Projection, much?

 

[lostone]

"Where's the evidence that this will help?" cries a dude who think just throwing everyone in jail will solve drugs somehow.

Evidence is of no concern to the likes of "Dr" Ferrer. Or you.

This state of affairs is disgraceful but you seem to be willing to tolerate it or at least excuse it for some perverse reason. Your hatred of "conservaitives" probably.

"Tolerate" what?

You tolerate, excuse and to a point deny the conditions the "homeless" have to endure.

I keep asking you to clarify what real solutions you suggest, and you can produce nothing at all.

Don't blame me, I didn't vote for Newsom. I expect you did and would again.

I do not, for the record, approve of fatal fentanyl overdoses. But your "solutions", when you bother to provide any at all, are not grounded in any sort of observable reality.

The dead "homeless" are just collateral damage I guess.

Have you offered any solution?

 

[TSwizzle]

You tolerate, excuse and to a point deny the conditions the "homeless" have to endure.

I most certainly do not.

Oh yes you do! You consistently sneer at the people who complain about the "homeless" that set up encampments, defecate in the streets, ruin public spaces, you don't have a problem with local councils allowing open drug use in town centers, you downplay the havoc that this causes to the general public to the extent you are in denial it is in fact a problem.

I expect you did and would again.

Absolutely. Because he is actually doing something about the homelessness crisis.

Yes, making it WORSE! There are more "homeless" now than ever! Newsom is an abject failure.

The dead "homeless" are just collateral damage I guess.

It's pretty hard to take you seriously when you put sarcasm quotes around the very name of the problem you're accusing me of not taking seriously enough. Projection, much?

So be it.

 

[Politesse]

You tolerate, excuse and to a point deny the conditions the "homeless" have to endure.

I most certainly do not.

Oh yes you do! You consistently sneer at the people who complain about the "homeless" that set up encampments, defecate in the streets, ruin public spaces, you don't have a problem with local councils allowing open drug use in town centers, you downplay the havoc that this causes to the general public to the extent you are in denial it is in fact a problem.

I expect you did and would again.

Absolutely. Because he is actually doing something about the homelessness crisis.

Yes, making it WORSE! There are more "homeless" now than ever! Newsom is an abject failure.

The dead "homeless" are just collateral damage I guess.

It's pretty hard to take you seriously when you put sarcasm quotes around the very name of the problem you're accusing me of not taking seriously enough. Projection, much?

So be it.

It's definitely true that I have some contempt for people who sneer and complain about homelessness but do nothing whatsoever about it.