Breakdown In Civil Order

[Politesse]

Who caused the fentanyl crisis, Tswizzle?

Ronald Reagan, obviously.

Wrong. Guess again.

 

[thebeave]

Oakland NAACP (with concurrence by CA & HI NAACP) has apparently had all they can take:

 

[Politesse]

Yeah, it's looking like conservatovrs will be getting everything they ask for in Oakland, and very soon.

Prediction: in a few years, when mass incarceration and increased police funding utterly fail to reduce crime at all, conservatives will admit no fault whatsoever, and insist that Governor Newsom somehow caused that too.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Who caused the fentanyl crisis, Tswizzle?

Ronald Reagan, obviously.

No, it's a combination of two things that came together:

1) A rich bastard deceived doctors about the addictiveness of his drug so they would write more scripts. And about it's duration of effect, causing the pain to return before it was time for the next dose for many patients.

2) The drug war. When the Oxycontin wore off early rather than address the issue they were labeled drug seekers. And when the doctors didn't taper off the stuff properly (since they didn't know it was needed due to the lies about the addiction potential) likewise patients end up turning to the street.

Now, add to this that fentanyl has a tendency to clump and thus it's hard for the drug dealers to get it well mixed.

 

[TSwizzle]

It was bound to happen;

Two 7-Eleven workers in California took matters into their own hands and used a stick to wallop a man who tried to steal a trash can full of cigarettes. Shocking video of the attempted robbery shows one employee holding the thief down while his colleague relentlessly whacks him roughly 25 times. “Okay, okay!” the thief screams at his attacker while pleading for mercy. Before he was taken down by the retail workers, the robber had casually sauntered behind the California convenience store’s register with a 20-gallon trash can in tow. He nonchalantly grabs fistfuls of tobacco products — including cigarettes, cigars and vapes — and tosses them into the bin as the off-camera workers plead for him to stop.

NYP

I don't think the store owner understood that providing the goods stolen is <$900 in value it's not a big deal.

 

[Politesse]

Tswizzle advocates for disproportionate violence as long as its someone else getting their hands dirty, more at 11.

 

[Derec]

Tswizzle advocates for disproportionate violence as long as its someone else getting their hands dirty, more at 11.

I must say, that was very satisfying to watch. I and many others work hard for our money. Why should thieves just get to steal stuff with impunity?

If the authorities are not taking retail theft seriously as a crime, this emboldens thieves like that guy. Eventually, as lawlessness persists, people take matters into their own hands.
Local prosecutors need to start prosecuting retail thefts. Anything else is just anarchy.

I am also reminded of the case in Manhattan, NYC. Alvin Bragg's bailiwick. A brazen serial shoplifter attacked and threatened the security guard, who stabbed and killed him. The DA's office never did anything against the thief, but they were quick to charge the guard who was defending himself with murder.
Security guard charged with murder in fatal stabbing of shoplifter at CVS store near Times Square
Had Bragg actually prosecuted the thief, instead of allowing him to steal over and over again, his death could have been avoided.

The deadly scuffle unfolded at the CVS pharmacy at W. 49th Street and Broadway in Midtown around 12:25 a.m. Thursday after a 50-year-old man with a history of shoplifting arrests tried to steal from the store.
An ensuing argument led to a physical fight in which the shoplifter reportedly punched the security guard in the face and knocked him to the ground. That's when the security guard allegedly stabbed the unidentified man in the torso.

Letting criminals run free, and prosecuting those who dare defend themselves (like Jose Alba and Scotty Enoe) or others (like Daniel Penny). That's the MO of Bragg and the rest of those fauxgressive prosecutors.

 

[TSwizzle]

The owners of a restaurant in Pomona say they are contemplating closing their business after a woman has repeatedly vandalized their building by throwing rocks and smashing windows. The most recent incident happened last month. Surveillance video captured the woman throwing large rocks at the windows of the Cachanilla Chinese Restaurant on Holt Avenue. The restaurant manager said it happened while the restaurant was hosting a large group in its banquet hall. The restaurant manager, who was identified only as a Danny, told Eyewitness News this has happened several times within the last month. He said in addition to the business being vandalized, there's been a series of overnight break-ins and says the unhoused community is to blame. "Just been fed up with all this unhoused, homeless, drug activity happening right outside our door," said Danny. "Every single day, there's always this group of homeless leaving all this trash and needles right there where all our customers and family can see. Every night, we have to worry whether or not another window is going to be broken out."

ABC News

Where is that insufferable prick of a governor at? Oh yeah, busy noising up De Santis to bother with this shithole he created.

Oh, and a fatal stabbing at the boardwalk in Santa Monica the other day.

 

[Derec]

Yeah, it's looking like conservatovrs will be getting everything they ask for in Oakland, and very soon.

Who are "conservatovrs"[sic] and what do you think they are asking for?

Prediction: in a few years, when mass incarceration

How do you define "mass incarceration"? Is merely locking up criminals all that it takes to be "mass incarceration" in your book?
It is obvious that the strategy of not prosecuting criminals has failed. If you have lost even the NAACP, you are truly lost.
Those guilty of serious crimes, homicides, felony assaults, robberies need to be incarcerated. Those guilty of lesser crimes like non-violent theft or simple assault still need real consequences (fines, community service), and if repeat offenders, incarceration. Catch and release for things like shoplifting doesn't work as they just keep stealing over and over again and get more brazen the more they keep getting away with it.
California already legalized weed, which takes care of a lot of bs incarcerations from decades past. They need to legalize consensual sex work as well.

and increased police funding utterly fail to reduce crime at all,

I think your prediction will prove false.

conservatives will admit no fault whatsoever,

Conservatives run California? Or Alameda/Oakland? Hard to have fault when you live in a de facto one party state/county/city and you are not member of the ruling party.

and insist that Governor Newsom somehow caused that too.

Governor Goodhair is certainly responsible for statewide policies like closing prisons, which leads to criminals getting released prematurely.

 

[Politesse]

Who are "conservatovrs"[sic] and what do you think they are asking for?

Bottomless police budgets, more arrests, stricter laws, mass incarceration, blind eye policies toward police violence or budget accountability.

 

[Derec]

Bottomless police budgets,

What does a "bottomless budget" even mean? Is it like bottomless margaritas at happy hour? Every budget has a dollar amount, so that doesn't even make any sense.
But Oakland does probably need a higher police budget to deal with the rampant crime, yes.

more arrests,

Probably true.

stricter laws,

Depends on the laws. Some things should be relaxed, others tightened.
But existing laws against things like theft should be enforced. Shoplifting is a crime, and should be treated as such. It is useless if police arrests thieves if Pamela Price and her minions don't prosecute them.

mass incarceration,

Again, how do you even define that?

blind eye policies toward police violence or budget accountability.

Police are authorized to use violence in many instances. Just because police used physical force against a suspect does not mean police did anything wrong.

 

[Derec]

It’s hard to believe that giving Republicans more political power in California would lead to better solutions of the mental health crisis.

Having a more competitive political landscape rather than a de facto one party state would help I think.
The current Republican party in the perpetual wilderness is not good, but neither is the current Democratic party that does not have to fear being voted out of power.

Certainly the Democrats aren’t doing a good job of it here but it’s hard to see how having a powerful opposition would make them more effective in this issue. What are your thoughts here?

Competition would do them good by forcing them to engage with real issues instead of with nonsense like reparations and the like.

 

[Politesse]

What does a "bottomless budget" even mean? Is it like bottomless margaritas at happy hour? Every budget has a dollar amount, so that doesn't even make any sense.
But Oakland does probably need a higher police budget to deal with the rampant crime, yes.

It's when the city rubber stamps whatever the police ask for whenever they ask for it.

 

[Derec]

It's when the city rubber stamps whatever the police ask for whenever they ask for it.

Progressive, "defund the police" Oakland is in the habit of rubberstamping whatever police ask for?
Oakland City Council Votes to Defund Police, Stripping More Than $17M from Department Budget
And in "nobody could have seen it coming" section:
Once willing to defund police, Oakland, Calif. now faces a major violent crime spike
Bottomless margaritas this is not. More like a bar that consistently pours short.

 

[Politesse]

It's when the city rubber stamps whatever the police ask for whenever they ask for it.

Progressive, "defund the police" Oakland is in the habit of rubberstamping whatever police ask for?
Oakland City Council Votes to Defund Police, Stripping More Than $17M from Department Budget

Of course not. But they're about to get back in that mood again, the perpetual cycle of public opinion will require it.

 

[Tigers!]

It was bound to happen;

Two 7-Eleven workers in California took matters into their own hands and used a stick to wallop a man who tried to steal a trash can full of cigarettes. Shocking video of the attempted robbery shows one employee holding the thief down while his colleague relentlessly whacks him roughly 25 times. “Okay, okay!” the thief screams at his attacker while pleading for mercy. Before he was taken down by the retail workers, the robber had casually sauntered behind the California convenience store’s register with a 20-gallon trash can in tow. He nonchalantly grabs fistfuls of tobacco products — including cigarettes, cigars and vapes — and tosses them into the bin as the off-camera workers plead for him to stop.

NYP

I don't think the store owner understood that providing the goods stolen is <$900 in value it's not a big deal.

It is indeed shocking that the staff gave him 23 whacks. 20 would have been sufficient.

 

[Derec]

Of course not. But they're about to get back in that mood again, the perpetual cycle of public opinion will require it.

Hopefully they will restore the police budget and elect a better DA who is actually in favor of prosecuting criminals.
I will believe it when I see it though.

You still have not answered my question of what your definition of "mass incarceration" is.

 

[Politesse]

Of course not. But they're about to get back in that mood again, the perpetual cycle of public opinion will require it.

Hopefully they will restore the police budget and elect a better DA who is actually in favor of prosecuting criminals.
I will believe it when I see it though.

You still have not answered my question of what your definition of "mass incarceration" is.

There's no consistent definition of mass incarceration, but in general, Republicans like to fantasize about a society in which more or less all crimes lead to "punishment" by forced labor in the industrial prison system.

 

[Derec]

There's no consistent definition of mass incarceration, but in general, Republicans like to fantasize about a society in which more or less all crimes lead to "punishment" by forced labor in the industrial prison system.

Shouldn't crime be punished? If some behavior (buying or selling weed, buying or selling sexual services) should not be punishable, it should be removed from the criminal code. But real crimes, including retail theft, should not be ignored. And even if you don't lock somebody up, community service can be construed as "forced labor". Do you want to abolish that as a possible punishment as well?
Do you think that any criminals need to be locked up? What about thieves? Should they not be punished at all? And what when they steal over and over again? Surely they should be incarcerated at that point, right? Or is that "mass incarceration"?

And what do Democrats like to fantasize about? A society where most crime goes unpunished, where thieves can just load up shopping carts with merchandise and leave in confidence that nothing will happen to them? Because, "how they gonna get their money?"

 

[lostone]

Democrats fantasize about a society where there is no poverty, a strong social safety net, and less crime It has been noted that few billionaires sleep in the street and rob convenience stores