Breakdown In Civil Order

[barbos]

Looked at Seattle videos and found this:


I did not know that prostitution was so legal there.

 

[Derec]

I did not know that prostitution was so legal there.

Sex work certainly should be legal everywhere.

 

[Derec]

I typed "oxycodone use by state" and was directed to this graphic.
The following is statistical FACT, not cherry-picked anecdote.

These are dispensing rates. So legal prescriptions, not illicit use. Could be due to a lot of things frankly.
We could do other maps. Like illicit drug use among adolescents.

The Left Coast doesn't look to well on that map.

There were exactly nine states that had at least 1.07X as many oxycodone prescriptions as residents in 2012:

Why 2012 and not 2020, most recent data? Who is cherry-picking now?


\

 

[barbos]

 

[lpetrich]

Macarthur Park, a famous Los Angeles landmark that was a jewel in the crown of this city, turned into a cesspit;

Fifty dollars a day. That’s how much Elliot, a 24-year-old living on the streets of MacArthur Park, says he must come up with to avoid fentanyl withdrawals, a debilitating pain that “feels like dying.” For someone with no phone, no home, no job and no more possessions than can fit into a backpack, this is no easy task. So Elliot, like many others battling addiction, makes money for fentanyl by selling shoplifted goods to street vendors around MacArthur Park. ...

Seems like he needs some fentanyl antidote so he can live a normal life.

 

[Derec]

Seems like he needs some fentanyl antidote so he can live a normal life.

Naloxon is an antidote. It is an antagonist of the opioid receptors. But that can help with an overdose, not withdrawals - in fact it can trigger them.
The problem with addicts is that their opioid receptors have been downregulated due to continuous use of exogenous opioids. So if they don't get the extra stimulation from the drugs, as normal supply of endorphins is not enough. So they get withdrawals. And for that, there is no quick fix. The only solution is time, so the body reestablishes normal opioid receptor levels. Even then, the memories of the high may lead addicts to relapse, esp. if there is some emotional trigger. Receptor upregulation to restablish normal levels is also why so many relapsing opioid addicts end up overdosing. They remember how much they took the last time, and use accordingly. But they now have a much higher level of receptors, so they overdose.

 

[Derec]

Macarthur Park, a famous Los Angeles landmark that was a jewel in the crown of this city, turned into a cesspit;

That is happening with a lot of urban parks. To quote Bunk from The Wire: "It makes me sick, motherfucker, how far we done fell."

So Elliot, like many others battling addiction, makes money for fentanyl by selling shoplifted goods to street vendors around MacArthur Park.

Seems to me, LAPD should clean up those vendors. Anybody caught selling stolen goods, straight to jail! But would Garçon even prosecute?

I remember when the police and sheriff departments would put yellow tape around basketball courts, play equipment and fill in skate parks because of the risk an adolescent may get covid.

Yes. There was a point to restricting indoor and large outdoor gatherings. But removing access to outdoor recreation was stupid. Esp. (semi)permanent measures like filling in.

We are governed ruled by morons.

Or what H.L. Mencken said about democracy.

 

[bilby]

Seems to me, LAPD should clean up those vendors. Anybody caught selling stolen goods, straight to jail!

Seems to me that you have a cartoonish and terrifying idea of how the legal system works, or how you would like it to work.

Judge Dredd is a dystopian parody, not a "how to" guide.

In civilised and free nations, police departments don't send people "straight to jail", they send them to trial.

Being suspected of selling stolen goods should not be sufficient for a conviction; There's the small matter of evidence, which needs to be sufficient to persuade a court of the accused's guilt; And of precedent, which should constrain sentencing to that previously imposed for similar offences, after aggravating and mitigating factors have been considered.

A police officer cannot decide that a street vendor is guilty; And a court cannot decide that a guilty person is deserving of exemplary punishment beyond that usually imposed for a particular crime.

 

[TSwizzle]

TEENS CHUCKLE, FATALLY MOW DOWN BICYCLIST ...

Two teens were heard laughing on a video as they deliberately plowed their car into a bicyclist in Nevada, killing the man -- a retired police chief.

The 17-year-old driver and his passenger were cruising down a street in Las Vegas on August 14, coming up behind Andreas Probst as he rode his cycle in the bike lane.
Filming with his cell phone, the passenger was chuckling with the driver as they plotted to run over Probst. You can hear them say, "Ready?" and "Yeah, hit his ass."


Moments later, the driver crashed into Probst, causing him to fly up onto the windshield before tumbling to the ground.

The teens are being charged as adults at least

he teenager who police say intentionally struck and killed a retired police chief in Las Vegas said he would get a “slap on the wrist” after he was taken into custody Jesus Ayala, 17 at the time, appeared to show no remorse while being taken into custody. Ayala, now 18, faces 18 counts — including murder — and has a lengthy criminal history in the juvenile system. “You think this juvenile [expletive] is gonna do some [expletive]? I’ll be out in 30 days, I’ll bet you. It’s just ah, [expletive] ah, hit-and-run — slap on the wrist.”

Yahoo

Keys is going to be in for a bit of a shock soon.

Jzamir Keys, the accused passenger, the 8 News Now Investigators have learned he was in the child welfare system at 8 years old. His mother was charged with five counts of child abuse in 2016, according to court documents. Police said they found her five children ages two to nine years old home alone without access to food, a knife left on a kitchen counter, and the house in poor condition.
Neighbors reported witnessing the children left alone for extended periods of time. The mother said that she could not find childcare while she worked. She pleaded guilty to gross misdemeanor child abuse. She later withdrew her plea after she successfully completed terms of probation and received a conviction for misdemeanor disorderly conduct.

News.

This kid never stood a chance.

 

[Gospel]

It's truly disheartening that Andreas Probst lost his life due to the consequences of inadequate upbringing, resulting in these teenagers becoming disconnected from reality and engaging in the worst kind of mean-spirited behavior. I come across such situations a bit too frequently. Not necessarily culminating in murder (though there have been a case or two), but rather numerous points of failures that result in misguided youth who ultimately commit violations, ranging from petty crimes to the most heinous offenses.

My team and I strive to provide them with better alternatives, yet we cannot reach everyone. Many of them cycle in and out of the system, and some are so deeply entrenched that it becomes increasingly challenging to connect with them using the resources at our disposal. We're just a team of 9 operating out of our own homes and setting up camp in the community when we find the time outside of our regular jobs. Larger grass root organizations are very helpful as they have shared their recourses with us which has been a great help. At times, I can't shake the feeling that our progress is limited. For every one teen we manage to positively influence, it seems like there are five more emerging who remain beyond our reach.

The love we get from Orange County FL Law Enforcement is always a major help, however there are some officers we can do without to put it lightly.

 

[Derec]

Seems to me that you have a cartoonish and terrifying idea of how the legal system works, or how you would like it to work.

It seems to me that you have the wrong idea of how the legal system works. When somebody is arrested, they are booked in jail.

Judge Dredd is a dystopian parody, not a "how to" guide.

Only you are talking about "Judge Dredd" here.

In civilised and free nations, police departments don't send people "straight to jail", they send them to trial.

But you can't send somebody straight to trial. Trials take time. Usually arrestees get booked into the local jail and then see the judge for a bail hearing. Trials take time.
Note that you cut off the part where I talked about the LA County DA, so I am obviously well aware how the legal system works, thank you very much.

There might also be some linguistic confusion here. In Australia, it seems jail (or "gaol") can also refer to prisons. But in the US it is for sentences of a year or less and, relevant here, for pretrial detention.

A police officer cannot decide that a street vendor is guilty; And a court cannot decide that a guilty person is deserving of exemplary punishment beyond that usually imposed for a particular crime.

A court can impose sentences in accordance with the law. A prosecutor can do his job and actually go after these criminals, instead of giving them a slap on the wrist. The problem has been that for a while LA has been lax on crime, esp. property crime, and it has emboldened thieves and the fences. As you can see from the article, they are not even afraid to have their photo taken by a newspaper!

 

[Derec]

The teens are being charged as adults at least

They are, now. But they have racked up a long record, and each time they got a slap on the wrist because they were "juveniles". To the extent that they believed they can get away with anything.

Vegas teen told cops ‘I’ll be out in 30 days’ after he was nabbed in killing of retired police chief in hit-and-run: report

The teen driver who allegedly mowed down a retired police chief in a fatal hit-and-run told Las Vegas police he would be back on the streets in under a month, according to a report.
[...]
“You think this juvenile [expletive] is gonna do some [expletive]? I’ll be out in 30 days, I’ll bet you,” Ayala told the cops, according to KLAS.
“It’s just ah, [expletive] ah, hit-and-run — slap on the wrist.”
[...]
The two teens are accused of going on a crime spree throughout the day on Aug. 14, as they allegedly hit a 72-year-old bicyclist while in a stolen Hyundai sedan, drove away, crashed into a Toyota Corolla and again drove away before striking Probst.

 

[Derec]

It's truly disheartening that Andreas Probst lost his life due to the consequences of inadequate upbringing, resulting in these teenagers becoming disconnected from reality and engaging in the worst kind of mean-spirited behavior.

Also the fact that the juvenile justice system is too forgiving of repeat offenders. These two knuckleheads have been committing crime after crime and gotten slaps on the wrist each time. So of course they will think they are untouchable.

There was a case in Atlanta. A visitor, who was in town for a wedding, was murdered outside a country club in Brookhaven where the wedding took place. The 17 year old murderer also was treated way too leniently.

A youth’s second chance, another family’s tragedy

Fulton County Superior Court Judge Doris Downs decided last year to give Jayden Myrick — the teen accused of shooting a man this month as he left a wedding reception — a chance to turn his life around.
Myrick had been arrested at the age of 14 for his role in an armed robbery and agreed to a negotiated plea of 15 years, to serve seven years in adult prison, according to the Fulton County District Attorney’s Office.
But after two-and-a-half years in juvenile detention, the judge gave him a break. She put Myrick on probation and placed him in a special program whose director confidently claimed her program could keep tabs on Myrick and reform him, just as it had many other violent youths, according to a transcript of the hearing.

They should have kept his ass in prison!

The DA’s office said Sunday that there were soon signs that Myrick was not on the right path. Just 20 days after the hearing, the DA’s office asked that Myrick’s probation be revoked based on Instagram posts showing him with guns, known gang members and a posted video showing him holding a baggie of pills for sale.
Downs revoked Myrick’s probation, and he was to remain in jail until February. The DA’s office said he was released on Feb. 21 and was supposed to go back into the Visions Unlimited program but apparently did not report there. The DA’s office said it found more posts on Instagram showing that Myrick was violating his probation and reported that to the judge, but that no action was taken.
Downs required Myrick in 2017 to avoid gun and drugs and anyone with a gun and she said during the hearing in August 2017 that she understood the prosecutor’s request for more punishment.
“I think he has been in prison now for two and a half years and I don’t think it helped him much,” the judge said, according to the transcript. “I haven’t noticed a whole lot a change, and I am hoping the change will occur with this opportunity.”

Un-fucking-believable.

Doris Downs is an imbecile.

 

[ZiprHead]

Do you think if he had served his full sentence it would have turned him into a choir boy?

Seems to me the US penitentiary system is woefully inadequate at rehabilitating anyone.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Looked at Seattle videos and found this:


I did not know that prostitution was so legal there.

Any remotely free society has prostitution. It typically operates fairly openly because it's not worth the police time to do anything about.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So what?

I have a mild opposition to streetwalking because it's freeloading on public resources. (I feel the same way about sidewalk businesses in general, though.) Beyond that, so what? Streetwalkers typically operate when there's little other activity going on and aren't an issue.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Macarthur Park, a famous Los Angeles landmark that was a jewel in the crown of this city, turned into a cesspit;

Fifty dollars a day. That’s how much Elliot, a 24-year-old living on the streets of MacArthur Park, says he must come up with to avoid fentanyl withdrawals, a debilitating pain that “feels like dying.” For someone with no phone, no home, no job and no more possessions than can fit into a backpack, this is no easy task. So Elliot, like many others battling addiction, makes money for fentanyl by selling shoplifted goods to street vendors around MacArthur Park. ...

Seems like he needs some fentanyl antidote so he can live a normal life.

Narcan makes you feel worse. It treats the overdose, it does nothing about the desire for the drug.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

TEENS CHUCKLE, FATALLY MOW DOWN BICYCLIST ...

Two teens were heard laughing on a video as they deliberately plowed their car into a bicyclist in Nevada, killing the man -- a retired police chief.

The 17-year-old driver and his passenger were cruising down a street in Las Vegas on August 14, coming up behind Andreas Probst as he rode his cycle in the bike lane.
Filming with his cell phone, the passenger was chuckling with the driver as they plotted to run over Probst. You can hear them say, "Ready?" and "Yeah, hit his ass."


Moments later, the driver crashed into Probst, causing him to fly up onto the windshield before tumbling to the ground.

The teens are being charged as adults at least

he teenager who police say intentionally struck and killed a retired police chief in Las Vegas said he would get a “slap on the wrist” after he was taken into custody Jesus Ayala, 17 at the time, appeared to show no remorse while being taken into custody. Ayala, now 18, faces 18 counts — including murder — and has a lengthy criminal history in the juvenile system. “You think this juvenile [expletive] is gonna do some [expletive]? I’ll be out in 30 days, I’ll bet you. It’s just ah, [expletive] ah, hit-and-run — slap on the wrist.”

Yahoo

Keys is going to be in for a bit of a shock soon.

Jzamir Keys, the accused passenger, the 8 News Now Investigators have learned he was in the child welfare system at 8 years old. His mother was charged with five counts of child abuse in 2016, according to court documents. Police said they found her five children ages two to nine years old home alone without access to food, a knife left on a kitchen counter, and the house in poor condition.
Neighbors reported witnessing the children left alone for extended periods of time. The mother said that she could not find childcare while she worked. She pleaded guilty to gross misdemeanor child abuse. She later withdrew her plea after she successfully completed terms of probation and received a conviction for misdemeanor disorderly conduct.

News.

This kid never stood a chance.

Yeah, the real kicker here is their belief that he'll be out in 30 days. I strongly suspect his prior offenses were all treated as juvenile. The sharp change between juvenile justice and adult justice leads to a lack of understanding of what will happen.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Do you think if he had served his full sentence it would have turned him into a choir boy?

Seems to me the US penitentiary system is woefully inadequate at rehabilitating anyone.

Of course not, but it wouldn't leave him thinking that this isn't a big deal.

 

[ZiprHead]

Do you think if he had served his full sentence it would have turned him into a choir boy?

Seems to me the US penitentiary system is woefully inadequate at rehabilitating anyone.

Of course not, but it wouldn't leave him thinking that this isn't a big deal.

That wasn't referring to the kids in the hit and run.