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Breakdown In Civil Order

steve_bank

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Drop the gibberish.

I have and still live in the real world.

I said nothing about any inherit inferiority. As I have said before, from my experience working with people from around the world people with same general education equivalent to what we have perform no better or worse than anyone else.

In a news segment a black woman from Ca was complaining Nigerian immigrant womem were rising faster in the corporate world than American birn blacks. Could it be attitude and culture pay an important role? I have heard blacks in Seattle compain about black African immigrants. From what I have seen they tend o do well.

Equity as the progressives are promoting is a myth.

GWB had his 'no child left behind' policy on education. The idea being nationally we should have an education system that turnss out a homogeneous uniform high school grad.

A lot of money was spent and it never happened.

The Moynihan Report circa 1960 was controversial. One conclusion was that performance in primary education was tied directly to family economics regardless of race.

Another controversial conclusion was that welfare while well intended was destroying the black family.

What equity boils down to is income and jobs.
 

Loren Pechtel

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In a news segment a black woman from Ca was complaining Nigerian immigrant womem were rising faster in the corporate world than American birn blacks. Could it be attitude and culture pay an important role? I have heard blacks in Seattle compain about black African immigrants. From what I have seen they tend o do well.

Yup, this is the damning data--black immigrants on average fare much better than American-born blacks. If it really were discrimination we wouldn't see that.
 

Oleg

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In a news segment a black woman from Ca was complaining Nigerian immigrant womem were rising faster in the corporate world than American birn blacks. Could it be attitude and culture pay an important role? I have heard blacks in Seattle compain about black African immigrants. From what I have seen they tend o do well.

Yup, this is the damning data--black immigrants on average fare much better than American-born blacks. If it really were discrimination we wouldn't see that.
African immigrants, especially from West Africa, tend to be the creme de la creme. Very good chance the successful ones are Igbo. Igbo were traders and heavily involved in the slave trade. Ancestry matters more than people like to believe.
 

Jarhyn

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In a news segment a black woman from Ca was complaining Nigerian immigrant womem were rising faster in the corporate world than American birn blacks. Could it be attitude and culture pay an important role? I have heard blacks in Seattle compain about black African immigrants. From what I have seen they tend o do well.

Yup, this is the damning data--black immigrants on average fare much better than American-born blacks. If it really were discrimination we wouldn't see that.
African immigrants, especially from West Africa, tend to be the creme de la creme. Very good chance the successful ones are Igbo. Igbo were traders and heavily involved in the slave trade. Ancestry matters more than people like to believe.
And as a result, they are much like Asian immigrants in this regard: they have not faced generations of poverty. They come with a large amount of inherited wealth with a reasonable support structure. They have a community of immediate peers with wealth, as well.

On top of that, they haven't been raised surrounded by a culture of racist messaging their whole life.

In many cases they will have inherited cultural messaging from their parents that is just as historically fucked up, as slave traders, as were the white slave buyers.

Having access to wealth and a community of peers makes a lot of difference, and it's not even entirely clear whether all the things that go into that difference are good.
 

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Oleg.

@ Oleg — There IS one way you can be useful here. How did you get fooled? Where did you get your URL?
If you do a simple search you’ll find it. Are you suggesting the FBI’s website has been compromised, or something? Really. Type in “FBI most wanted domestic terrorist.” Sorry to bust your narrative.

So, you're unwilling or unable to acknowledge that the page you linked too was, at best, obsolescent — the most recent crime mentioned in the several Wanted posters there was in 1984 — Thirty-eight years ago.

Got it.
Perhaps you could explain why the last crime being committed in 1984 is important. We are still looking for Nazis despite their last crime being in 1945 (76 years ago). Granted we will not look for much longer.
The fact that those mentioned in the list are on their 70s or 80s is not a reason not to look for them.
 

Oleg

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In many cases they will have inherited cultural messaging from their parents that is just as historically fucked up, as slave traders, as were the white slave buyers.
Well, okay. But I'd guess those early Igbo who engaged successfully in trade had a selective advantage. It's gene-culture evolution. Those who did well at trade had more offspring. The smarter you were the more children you had. Makes a bit more sense. The "cultural messaging" argument seems unpersuasive as "do you homework" is hardly a cultural secret.
 

Jarhyn

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In many cases they will have inherited cultural messaging from their parents that is just as historically fucked up, as slave traders, as were the white slave buyers.
Well, okay. But I'd guess those early Igbo who engaged successfully in trade had a selective advantage. It's gene-culture evolution. Those who did well at trade had more offspring. The smarter you were the more children you had. Makes a bit more sense. The "cultural messaging" argument seems unpersuasive as "do you homework" is hardly a cultural secret.
Who engaged successfully in the trade of early human lives didn't have a selective advantage. That's not a genetic trait I want. When I see people expressing the phenotype of "acts like they would sell another human being into bondage", I reject that. I wouldn't fuck it. If it tried to fuck me I would kill it. If it worked for me I would fire it. Note: it.

Take special note so that you don't fucking try taking what I am saying in bad faith:
acts like they would sell another human being into bondage.


Only and exactly that. Nothing about skin color. Nothing about anything else.

Those who would sell another human into bondage do not deserve to be treated as anything but things.

If your cultural secret is slavery, then there will be words. And more than words.

If you need a suitable selection pressure to not treat humans as equals prior and during their education and upbringings, and leave their history out of evaluation of their immediate merits, and have an eclectic and wide understanding of all things with merit to the context, this is a selection pressure: Artificial selection against slavers.

Even so, I would hope education could bring someone over. "Can learn to not be a slaver piece of shit" is a great trait to have validated in the mix, with which to assault latent "slavery" right in it's "recalcitrance" as a genotype.
 

Oleg

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In many cases they will have inherited cultural messaging from their parents that is just as historically fucked up, as slave traders, as were the white slave buyers.
Well, okay. But I'd guess those early Igbo who engaged successfully in trade had a selective advantage. It's gene-culture evolution. Those who did well at trade had more offspring. The smarter you were the more children you had. Makes a bit more sense. The "cultural messaging" argument seems unpersuasive as "do you homework" is hardly a cultural secret.
Who engaged successfully in the trade of early human lives didn't have a selective advantage. That's not a genetic trait I want. When I see people expressing the phenotype of "acts like they would sell another human being into bondage", I reject that. I wouldn't fuck it. If it tried to fuck me I would kill it. If it worked for me I would fire it. Note: it.

Take special note so that you don't fucking try taking what I am saying in bad faith:
acts like they would sell another human being into bondage.


Only and exactly that. Nothing about skin color. Nothing about anything else.

Those who would sell another human into bondage do not deserve to be treated as anything but things.

If your cultural secret is slavery, then there will be words. And more than words.

If you need a suitable selection pressure to not treat humans as equals prior and during their education and upbringings, and leave their history out of evaluation of their immediate merits, this is a selection pressure. Artificial selection against slavers.
Wut? That slavery is bad is a recent (and primarly Western) construction. It's not that engaging in the slave trade per se gave a selective advantage. The Igbo did more than just slavery. It's that entrepenrualship requires intelligence. So there was a selective pressure for intelligence.
 

Jarhyn

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Wut? That slavery is bad is a recent (and primarly Western) construction.
So do you, or do you not, believe that people should be empowered over one another in a nonconsensual relationship of forced servitude and bondage?

This statement I quoted doesn't seem to imply that you do.
 

Swammerdami

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There is hardly any GOP in LA.

Nitpick: I don't really mean to pick on Derec — "We all know what he meant" — but some lead-ins to punchlines are too good to pass up!

Of all the 3000+ counties in the U.S.A., guess which one recorded the MOST votes for Donald J. Trump in 2020? And in 2016? (You don't need to guess: The MIT Election Data and Science Lab has such data available for download.)

I'd put the answer in SPOILER tags but with this lead-in everyone is going to guess the answer. The U.S. county that recorded the most Trump votes was . . .
. . . Los Angeles County, California!
L.A. County also reported the most votes for Biden. And for Ms. Clinton.

In fact Trump's seven top-voting counties are almost the same (unordered) list as Biden's seven top-voting counties. Exceptions: Miami-Dade is #7 on Trump's list but way down at #11 for Biden. King Cty in Washington is #6 for Biden, but #11 for Trump.
 

Oleg

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Wut? That slavery is bad is a recent (and primarly Western) construction.
So do you, or do you not, believe that people should be empowered over one another in a nonconsensual relationship of forced servitude and bondage?

This statement I quoted doesn't seem to imply that you do.
I do believe slavery is wrong. But I appreaciate that's because I live in the 21st Century after the 19th Century Western moral cursade to end it. But the Igbo particpation in slavery is beside the point.
 

Swammerdami

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Wut? That slavery is bad is a recent (and primarly Western) construction.
So do you, or do you not, believe that people should be empowered over one another in a nonconsensual relationship of forced servitude and bondage?

This statement I quoted doesn't seem to imply that you do.
I do believe slavery is wrong. But I appreaciate that's because I live in the 21st Century after the 19th Century Western moral cursade to end it. But the Igbo particpation in slavery is beside the point.

I think the idea that slavery is bad is older (and less exclusively Western) than you imply. See  Timeline of abolition of slavery and serfdom. A Chinese Emperor abolished slavery over 2000 years ago; Ashoka the Great of India abolished the slave trade even earlier than that. Earlier still Solon the Lawgiver freed Athens' slaves.

More than 900 years ago the Council of London decreed "Let no one dare hereafter to engage in the infamous business, prevalent in England, of selling men like animals." Peruse the timeline and see many decrees by European rulers to abolish slavery even before "white man" landed on Plymouth Rock.
 

prideandfall

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Oleg.

@ Oleg — There IS one way you can be useful here. How did you get fooled? Where did you get your URL?
If you do a simple search you’ll find it. Are you suggesting the FBI’s website has been compromised, or something? Really. Type in “FBI most wanted domestic terrorist.” Sorry to bust your narrative.

So, you're unwilling or unable to acknowledge that the page you linked too was, at best, obsolescent — the most recent crime mentioned in the several Wanted posters there was in 1984 — Thirty-eight years ago.

Got it.
Perhaps you could explain why the last crime being committed in 1984 is important. We are still looking for Nazis despite their last crime being in 1945 (76 years ago).
Because "how long ago it happened" isn't the point.
"How recently it's been happening" is the point.

In the US as of 2022 right-wing extremist violence is the number one domestic terrorism threat - and in fact, it's the *only* domestic terrorism threat.
There is no left-wing extremist violence in the US, full stop.
That you have to go back to the 70s to try and find an example of left-wing violence in order to try and justify delusion that left-wing violence is a thing pretty solidly proves the point that it is absolutely not a thing.
 

bilby

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The idea that slavery is bad has been widespread since the very beginning of the practice; But mostly amongst slaves, whose opinions were not usually considered important.

Most of history is the history of a tiny number of self-important wankers who didn't even notice that they weren't noticing the vast majority of people, largely because they didn't think of everyone else as 'people' at all.

Slaves weren't people. Foreigners weren't people (unless they were colonial rivals, in which case they were people, but not decent or worthy). Women weren't people. Poor people were an oxymoron.

"People" meant the aristocracy, and the aristocracy were the only people who were really people. To think otherwise was so absurd that even lunatics didn't indulge in such wild speculation.

To suggest that "the people" were actually people, with opinions that might be taken into account when making decisions, well, that's just beyond absurd. A slave was no more worth listening to than was a dog or a horse. A man might have a favourite horse, but he would be ridiculed were he to propose him for the Senate.
 

Jarhyn

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Wut? That slavery is bad is a recent (and primarly Western) construction.
So do you, or do you not, believe that people should be empowered over one another in a nonconsensual relationship of forced servitude and bondage?

This statement I quoted doesn't seem to imply that you do.
I do believe slavery is wrong. But I appreaciate that's because I live in the 21st Century after the 19th Century Western moral cursade to end it. But the Igbo particpation in slavery is beside the point.
No. The fact is people have always lived who thought it was wrong, almost certainly including many (but sadly not all) of.the slaves.

Do you appreciate this "moral crusade" to end it?

Do you appreciate that there is more work to cleaning up a mess than simply ceasing to do the thing that messed the place up, then? That you can't just stop pushing shit on the floor and not put it back?

The advantages people have today in society is as much by accident as anything else.

At any rate equating short term cultural supremacy to genetic supremacy (especially in light of the fact that everyone fucks everyone and there is no keeping such 'cats' in the genetic 'bag' as it were) is abhorrent.
 

Oleg

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The fact is people have always lived who thought it was wrong,
Who? Slavery is so prevalent in history - everywhere - that even the early Christians, who preached that God loved everyone, just accepted that slavery was part of creation. Anyway, we’ve gotten off topic.
 

Politesse

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Yet there’s no FBI list. I mean, if there’s a klansman under every rock, where are they?
Are you trying to claim that the FBI does not investigate DVE incidents? If so. that is manifestly untrue. Though they had to cloak their work under a nest of buzzwords during the Trump era due to his sympathies, the FBI has never stopped protecting us from threats foreign and domestic.
 

Jarhyn

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The fact is people have always lived who thought it was wrong,
Who? Slavery is so prevalent in history - everywhere - that even the early Christians, who preached that God loved everyone, just accepted that slavery was part of creation. Anyway, we’ve gotten off topic.
the slaves
It's almost as if your cut may have been a bit dishonest, seeing as how I answered your JAQing in the part of the quoted paragraph that you cut.
 

prideandfall

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In the US as of 2022 right-wing extremist violence is the number one domestic terrorism threat
Yet there’s no FBI list. I mean, if there’s a klansman under every rock, where are they?
Hint: it's not the klan, and you don't show up on a wanted list when you're dead or already in custody.
 

Oleg

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Oleg

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The fact is people have always lived who thought it was wrong,
Who? Slavery is so prevalent in history - everywhere - that even the early Christians, who preached that God loved everyone, just accepted that slavery was part of creation. Anyway, we’ve gotten off topic.
the slaves
It's almost as if your cut may have been a bit dishonest, seeing as how I answered your JAQing in the part of the quoted paragraph that you cut.
Well, of course. No one liked it when they or their kin were enslaved. But enslaving an out group was fine until the West had a moral epiphany and imposed its new values on the rest of the world.
 

prideandfall

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In the US as of 2022 right-wing extremist violence is the number one domestic terrorism threat
Yet there’s no FBI list. I mean, if there’s a klansman under every rock, where are they?
Hint: it's not the klan, and you don't show up on a wanted list when you're dead or already in custody.
So moral panic. That’s what we got.
[removed]

People either categorically proclaiming right-wing ideology as their motivation, or discovered to have done so explicitly due to right wing ideology adherence or indoctrination by right wing ideological elements, perform acts of domestic terrorism at least several times a year and have been doing so for the last 25 years at a minimum.
Church shootings, attacks on government buildings and personnel, mass slaughter events... these aren't 'moral' issues, these are actual things that happen.

That is the highest domestic terrorism threat - that is simply objective fact. There is no other broad category of domestic terrorism that is ongoing to the extent of reactionary right wing violence.
 
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prideandfall

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There is no other broad category of domestic terrorism that is ongoing to the extent of reactionary right wing violence.
Wut?

From the article you posted: "No one has been injured during these attacks"

I know this is a completely foreign concept to people festering with a regressive ideological core, but "property" is not human lives, and "vandalism" is not "violence".

[removed]
But if you think you can get away with just plopping down that pile of intellectual diarrhea without being thoroughly called out for it, I've got some news for you.
 
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Jarhyn

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but "property" is not human lives, and "vandalism" is not "violence".
Now do January 6.
People died. Violence happened. Less violence than the utter potential that was there actually happened on account of the ringleader being forced to not attend.
 

prideandfall

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but "property" is not human lives, and "vandalism" is not "violence".
Now do January 6.
You mean the part where people were killed and several others injured by a violent mob of right-wing extremists who were rioting over something that literally doesn't exist?

Also: you're new here so I'll grant you some leeway, but check your sources before tossing around idiocy like that - I don't really give a shit about the Jan 6th riots other than the curio of what happens when a bunch of malignant fucktards gather in one place.
You're not catching me in some clever "gotcha!" trap pointing that out because I've never condemned it in the first place.
 

Loren Pechtel

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And as a result, they are much like Asian immigrants in this regard: they have not faced generations of poverty. They come with a large amount of inherited wealth with a reasonable support structure. They have a community of immediate peers with wealth, as well.

I can't address the Africans, but many of those Asians have little when they come here. Having resources over there doesn't translate to being able to bring them.

On top of that, they haven't been raised surrounded by a culture of racist messaging their whole life.

In many cases they will have inherited cultural messaging from their parents that is just as historically fucked up, as slave traders, as were the white slave buyers.

Having access to wealth and a community of peers makes a lot of difference, and it's not even entirely clear whether all the things that go into that difference are good.

First, note that only the first thing on your list could be considered racism at all and even then it's not discrimination.

Second, I sure saw no community support for my wife--yes, she knew other immigrants but got nothing more than basic language help from them.
 

Loren Pechtel

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but "property" is not human lives, and "vandalism" is not "violence".
Now do January 6.
You mean the part where people were killed and several others over 100 officers injured by a violent mob of right-wing extremists who were rioting over something that literally doesn't exist?

Also: you're new here so I'll grant you some leeway, but check your sources before tossing around idiocy like that - I don't really give a shit about the Jan 6th riots other than the curio of what happens when a bunch of malignant fucktards gather in one place.
You're not catching me in some clever "gotcha!" trap pointing that out because I've never condemned it in the first place.
FTFY
 

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In the US as of 2022 right-wing extremist violence is the number one domestic terrorism threat
Yet there’s no FBI list.
There is no FBI list of most wanted left wing terrorists any more either. It disappeared years ago. When there was one it listed terrorists who committed their crimes 35 to 51 years ago. Times have changed, Oleg.

I repeat what the FBI said about domestic terrorism more recently. It will be amusing to see how much longer you manage to studiously ignore their reports.

From the report by Dale L. Watson, Executive Assistant Director, Counterterrorism/Counterintelligence Division, Federal Bureau of Investigation before the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence Washington, DC February 06, 2002:
During the past decade we have witnessed dramatic changes in the nature of the terrorist threat. In the 1990s, right-wing extremism overtook left-wing terrorism as the most dangerous domestic terrorist threat to the country.
And from Jill Sanborn, Executive Assistant Director, National Security Branch, Federal Bureau of Investigation's Statement Before the House Appropriations Committee, Subcommittee on Commerce, Justice, Science, and Related Agencies, Washington, D.C. April 29, 2021:
The top threat we face from DVEs [Domestic Violent Extremists] continues to be those we categorize as racially or ethnically motivated violent extremists, specifically those who advocate for the superiority of the white race, and who were the primary source of fatalities perpetrated by DVEs in 2018 and 2019.
 

Swammerdami

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I repeat what the FBI said about domestic terrorism more recently. It will be amusing to see how much longer you manage to studiously ignore their reports.

From the report by Dale L. Watson, Executive Assistant Director, Counterterrorism/Counterintelligence Division, Federal Bureau of Investigation before the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence Washington, DC February 06, 2002:
During the past decade we have witnessed dramatic changes in the nature of the terrorist threat. In the 1990s, right-wing extremism overtook left-wing terrorism as the most dangerous domestic terrorist threat to the country.
And from Jill Sanborn, Executive Assistant Director, National Security Branch, Federal Bureau of Investigation's Statement Before the House Appropriations Committee, Subcommittee on Commerce, Justice, Science, and Related Agencies, Washington, D.C. April 29, 2021:
The top threat we face from DVEs [Domestic Violent Extremists] continues to be those we categorize as racially or ethnically motivated violent extremists, specifically those who advocate for the superiority of the white race, and who were the primary source of fatalities perpetrated by DVEs in 2018 and 2019.

It won't do much good, Hermit. These guys don't have any normal perception of the passage of time. Remember that Republicans claim to be the anti-racist party because they were the Party of Lincoln.

One wonders where they were in 3rd grade when calendars were explained.
 

Cheerful Charlie

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The idea that slavery is bad has been widespread since the very beginning of the practice; But mostly amongst slaves, whose opinions were not usually considered important.

Most of history is the history of a tiny number of self-important wankers who didn't even notice that they weren't noticing the vast majority of people, largely because they didn't think of everyone else as 'people' at all.

Slaves weren't people. Foreigners weren't people (unless they were colonial rivals, in which case they were people, but not decent or worthy). Women weren't people. Poor people were an oxymoron.

"People" meant the aristocracy, and the aristocracy were the only people who were really people. To think otherwise was so absurd that even lunatics didn't indulge in such wild speculation.

To suggest that "the people" were actually people, with opinions that might be taken into account when making decisions, well, that's just beyond absurd. A slave was no more worth listening to than was a dog or a horse. A man might have a favourite horse, but he would be ridiculed were he to propose him for the Senate.

Slavery was not unknown in Europe, especially in Portugul and Spain during the wars with Moslems there.

In 1441, the Portuguese sent exploration sea going vessels down the coast of Africa to horn in on the Moslem dominated African trade. Gold, ivory and slaves. On the way back they kidnapped evil people as slaves. Back in Portugul, the requested that slave trading from Africa be declared legal. Pope Nicholas V, wrote 2 papal bulls, Dim Diversus in 1452 and Romanus Pontifex in 1454. Not onlt was slavery allowable, but the king of Portugul was charged with destroying any and all "Saracen" and pagan kingdoms, no matter how far away. Their movable goods were to be confiscated, and their persons condemned to slavery in perpetruem. These bulls were reiterated by several popes after Nicholas V. Naturally, after Spain discovered the New World, slavery followed. Indians made poor slaves, so African slavery trade started.

We are still living with the effects of Nicholas V's demands for imperialism and slavery against Saracens and pagans, declared by the good pope Nicholas V, to be all declared enemies of God And Christ.

I suggest some day spending a little time looking up Dum Diversus and Romanu Pontifex. It is an eye opening experience. Two of the most evil documents penned in human history. I am surprised this does no seem to be widely known. It is a missing historical link.
 

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During the past decade we have witnessed dramatic changes in the nature of the terrorist threat. In the 1990s, right-wing extremism overtook left-wing terrorism as the most dangerous domestic terrorist threat to the country.
Both are dwarfed by the Islamic terrorism of course.

That said, when he wrote this in 2002 he was probably right. You had right wing extremists like McVeigh, and less active left wing extremist scene compared with 1960s-80s.

But now things are different. Widespread rioting and unrests (called "uprisings" by those engaging in it) since 2014, by Antifa and #BLM which has Marxist roots and is glorifying 70s terrorists like Joanne Chesimard. You have resurgence of hate groups like Nation of Islam, New Black Panther Party, NFAC (who hid a cop killer in their compound in my neck of the woods recently), Black Hammer Party etc.
Feds investigating Black Hammer Party in wide-ranging criminal probe

It is not politically correct to point to those groups, as the left wing terrorist groups are often "minority led", but they are a real threat.
 
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Derec

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To get back to breakdown in civil order, NY's bail deform is still helping violent criminals.
Suspect released without bail after Bronx sucker-punch attack

Fox 5 NY said:
The suspect accused of randomly sucker-punching a man in the head in the Bronx and leaving him in critical condition was released from jail on Thursday. His charges were also downgraded from attempted murder to assault and harassment by the Bronx District Attorney's office, charges that are misdemeanors and not bail-eligible.[...]Bui has a previous conviction for first-degree sex abuse from 1995 and was sentenced to six years in prison. He was paroled in 2019 and is registered as a Level 3 sex offender, the most serious designation.

You assault somebody and put him in critical condition and get released on no bail? With a prior violent felony? And why is Bronx DA charging this as a misdemeanor? It should be felonious assault. I do not but that there is no evidence of aggravated assault, as the attack was caught on video and severe injuries to the victim are well documented. It is the Bronx DA Darcel Clark playing politics, same as her colleague Bragg.

Update: Van Phu Bui was taken into custody today, following pressure from Albany.
 

TSwizzle

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A familiar story in these “progressive” hell holes;

Distressing footage showed a disabled 66 year-old being beaten to death with a metal pole in Seattle - allegedly by a serial criminal cops say had been freed by a local judge on a separate felony charge just eight days earlier.

Daily Mail
 

Politesse

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I'm always tempted to just start posting every horrible crime that happens in Alabama or Florida and what have you for a week, just to make the point that crimes happen everywhere regardless of who the governor is. But I don't want to feed into your phony narrative that penal or policing policies are what motivate crime in the first place, as I do not think that is true. And I think you know you're full of shit anyway, at least in the sense that you know perfectly well that you don't have to live in a city or a "blue state" to be beat to death by a former felon.
 

TSwizzle

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But I don't want to feed into your phony narrative that penal or policing policies are what motivate crime in the first place, as I do not think that is true.
It’s not about motivation. It’s about letting violent, repeat offenders out of jail with no bail who go on to kill innocent people. Which you deliberately sidestep.
 

Politesse

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But I don't want to feed into your phony narrative that penal or policing policies are what motivate crime in the first place, as I do not think that is true.
It’s not about motivation. It’s about letting violent, repeat offenders out of jail with no bail who go on to kill innocent people. Which you deliberately sidestep.
Ah, so if the governor were a Republican, no one would ever be let out of jail, so there would be no crimes?
 

ZiprHead

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From the Daily Mail link:
Had the judge looked into Fulk's criminal past he would've uncovered a litany of cases including assault, aggravated battery, attempted assault and disorderly conduct in neighboring Idaho.
Seems to me that it is the prosecutor's job to present the case the perp should remain in custody or get a high bail.
 

Politesse

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From the Daily Mail link:
Had the judge looked into Fulk's criminal past he would've uncovered a litany of cases including assault, aggravated battery, attempted assault and disorderly conduct in neighboring Idaho.
Seems to me that it is the prosecutor's job to present the case the perp should remain in custody or get a high bail.
Well, that can't be right. Idaho is a Republican state, there aren't any violent crimes there. Or if there were, you couldn't have a "history" of them or you would still be in jail. Right?
 

ZiprHead

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From the Daily Mail link:
Had the judge looked into Fulk's criminal past he would've uncovered a litany of cases including assault, aggravated battery, attempted assault and disorderly conduct in neighboring Idaho.
Seems to me that it is the prosecutor's job to present the case the perp should remain in custody or get a high bail.
Well, that can't be right. Idaho is a Republican state, there aren't any violent crimes there. Or if there were, you couldn't have a "history" of them or you would still be in jail. Right?
Maybe he escaped.
 

TSwizzle

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Ah, so if the governor were a Republican, no one would ever be let out of jail, so there would be no crimes?
Doesn’t it bother you that a violent criminal beat someone to death on a public street in one of the USA most famous cities? This was an avoidable incident had the violent criminal had been detained rather than let out for his earlier crimes.
 

Politesse

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Ah, so if the governor were a Republican, no one would ever be let out of jail, so there would be no crimes?
Doesn’t it bother you that a violent criminal beat someone to death on a public street in one of the USA most famous cities? This was an avoidable incident had the violent criminal had been detained rather than let out for his earlier crimes.
Of course it does, that's fucking awful.

I don't see any evidence that you, well, have a point, though. Yeah sure, after the fact you've found a way to blame the incident on "the system", cheerily cherry-picking only those elements of the incident that seem to confirm your worldview. But I have been provided no reason whatsoever to believe that Republican policies at the state level would have prevented this crime. You always wiggle out of giving me any specifics, in fact, on what elements of the legal system you want to reform, how, why, and what evidence supports it. You just want us all to clutch our pearls at "how bad things are today" and then give neo-fascists a blank check to supposedly fix it all at the cost of our civil rights. Even though the states they already control are pretty, you know, obviously crap.
 

steve_bank

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In a news segment a black woman from Ca was complaining Nigerian immigrant womem were rising faster in the corporate world than American birn blacks. Could it be attitude and culture pay an important role? I have heard blacks in Seattle compain about black African immigrants. From what I have seen they tend o do well.

Yup, this is the damning data--black immigrants on average fare much better than American-born blacks. If it really were discrimination we wouldn't see that.
African immigrants, especially from West Africa, tend to be the creme de la creme. Very good chance the successful ones are Igbo. Igbo were traders and heavily involved in the slave trade. Ancestry matters more than people like to believe.
I wold not say that. What I see personally in Seattle is a mix. Some go to college, some get a trade or go into nursing, some get regular jobs. There are some who are anti American but they are few. There are some who choose to bum around, also few from what I have seen. Crime and drugs.

The administrator in the assisted living place I was in for a while was a Nigerian woman immigrant. Came over when she was young, went to college, worked her way up in social services and health care administration in Ca and moved to Seattle.

Like I said black African immigrants I have seen and known have the same spectrum as any other group.

I'd say the same for Hispanics or Asians. My senior building is multicultural. China, Japan, Thailand, Mexico, Vietnam, Russia and others. They all came over and worked.
 

bilby

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This was an avoidable incident had the violent criminal had been detained rather than let out for his earlier crimes
Was it?

The fact is that longer jail terms increase recidivism rates, so it's more in keeping with observed reality to suggest that this was an avoidable incident had the violent criminal not been detained for so long for his earlier crimes.

Of course, had he received a life sentence and never been released at all, his victim would likely have been another prisoner, or a prison worker. And he, and all the millions of other lifers, would be costing taxpayers vast sums to keep incarcerated just in case they might commit crimes if released.

If you want to pay to keep over half your population in jail, because you fear reoffending by anyone who has ever been convicted, then you are an idiot.

If your objective is to reduce crime, you need to reduce the known causes of crime - which include incarceration for long periods.

Short, comfortable prison sentences in prisons with good protection for inmates against each other, are vastly more effective in reducing recidivism than long harsh sentences in shitty hellholes. Non-custodial punishments are more effective still.
 

steve_bank

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Here in Seattle catch and release of violent offenders is recognized as an issue.

Police are angry because they do the work and risk injury bringing in violent offenders and they are released commuting more assaults and murders. This is not hyperbole, it is becoming routine reporting.

Bussiness is angry. Peopleknow the risk of capture and jail time are reduced and are getting bolder . Busnesses have closed or forced out of business by repeated damage of property.

People are angry because hey faced increased risk of assault.

Part f it was the previous DA and mayor, and the city council.

Iur new mayor ad DA are doing te right things but the whole they inherited is deep.

The last mayor and the progressive city council destroyed te Seattle police department. Reduced funding aka defund police and lacj=k of any verbal support durng a long period of civil unrest and riots.

Seattle can't find anyone interested in the police chief job. Same with recruits for SPD. More officers are leaving then being hired.

Who wnats to work on SPD when the progressive city council treats you like an enemy.
 
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