Breakdown In Civil Order

[Oleg]

Since when was it a trend for criminals to stop for police?

This essentially punishes the good citizens and rewards the bad. Most people will stop when a police car flashes its lights. They’ll get the ticket. The antisocial person will blow it off knowing the cops can’t do anything. It promotes antisocial behavior.

 

[Oleg]

What? No way.

“There isn’t a huge appetite for aggressive police work out there, and the risk/reward, certainly, we’re there and we’re sworn to protect and serve, but you also have to protect yourself and your family,” said Scott Gerlicher, a Minneapolis police commander who retired this year. “Nobody in the job or working on the job can blame those officers for being less aggressive.”

In the year after Floyd’s death on May 25, 2020, the number of people approached on the street by officers who considered them suspicious dropped by 76%, Reuters found after analyzing more than 2.2 million police dispatches in the city. Officers stopped 85% fewer cars for traffic violations. As they stopped fewer people, they found and seized fewer illegal guns.

Hands-Off Patrol

After Floyd's killing, Minneapolis police retreated, data shows

www.reuters.com

Yes, of course. If they can't murder the perps they can't do their jobs.

 

[ZiprHead]

What? No way.

“There isn’t a huge appetite for aggressive police work out there, and the risk/reward, certainly, we’re there and we’re sworn to protect and serve, but you also have to protect yourself and your family,” said Scott Gerlicher, a Minneapolis police commander who retired this year. “Nobody in the job or working on the job can blame those officers for being less aggressive.”

In the year after Floyd’s death on May 25, 2020, the number of people approached on the street by officers who considered them suspicious dropped by 76%, Reuters found after analyzing more than 2.2 million police dispatches in the city. Officers stopped 85% fewer cars for traffic violations. As they stopped fewer people, they found and seized fewer illegal guns.

Hands-Off Patrol

After Floyd's killing, Minneapolis police retreated, data shows

www.reuters.com

Yes, of course. If they can't murder the perps they can't do their jobs.

Really? So what is the point then?

And, BTW, I'm stealing that.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Since when was it a trend for criminals to stop for police? As far back as I can recall, running is what they do regardless of what the law prohibits officers to do. The no chase rule was put in place to prevent innocent bystanders from getting injured. Whether that was the right call is another thing. They likely have data to support that decision. It wasn't to show mercy to the criminals like you seem to be insinuating. I mean Gosh bro if you actually read the bill the parts about high speed chases is drenched in concerns for public safety.

The problem is such laws are usually political in nature rather than based in solid data. (This applies in both directions--laws passed in reaction to public pressure generally favor the obvious over the right.)

 

[Gospel]

Since when was it a trend for criminals to stop for police?

This essentially punishes the good citizens and rewards the bad. Most people will stop when a police car flashes its lights. They’ll get the ticket. The antisocial person will blow it off knowing the cops can’t do anything. It promotes antisocial behavior.

I really want to drink your cool aid I just need some evidence as a chaser.

 

[atrib]

It wasn't to show mercy to the criminals like you seem to be insinuating. I mean Gosh bro if you actually read the bill the parts about high speed chases is drenched in concerns for public safety.

What? Are you suggesting that we should let the guy with the broken taillight or the stolen designer shoes just escape, disrespecting the authority of the government? Just to save the lives of innocent people who might be turned into mangled hamburger roadkill when the inexperienced teenager being pursued, or the cop runs into them at 120mph? Where are your priorities?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It wasn't to show mercy to the criminals like you seem to be insinuating. I mean Gosh bro if you actually read the bill the parts about high speed chases is drenched in concerns for public safety.

What? Are you suggesting that we should let the guy with the broken taillight or the stolen designer shoes just escape, disrespecting the authority of the government? Just to save the lives of innocent people who might be turned into mangled hamburger roadkill when the inexperienced teenager being pursued, or the cop runs into them at 120mph? Where are your priorities?

You are assuming the reasoning is sound. You have to balance the harm of pursuit vs:

1) Those harmed by bad guys not looking when taking off.

2) Those harmed by criminals who weren't caught. Misdeeds tend to come in groups--the guy with the tail light out is far more likely than the average person to be a criminal. (Your average person does not knowingly drive with a light out.)

3) Those harmed by the drunk drivers who don't get taken off the road. Remember, you have no way to know who the driver was so no way to punish fleeing a DUI--the penalty for DUI is in effect reduced to whatever civil penalty is assigned to the owner of a car who takes off.

I do not believe we have data on any of these. I suspect #1 is minor. I don't know about #2. I suspect #3 would be a substantial issue. Note that pursuit fatalities are only a few percent of DUI fatalities--it would not take much effect on the DUI rate to make no-pursuit increase the total fatalities.

 

[TSwizzle]

Another hell hole;

The Kensington neighborhood of Philadelphia - known as 'ground zero' for the city's drug epidemic - is in crisis due to widespread abuse of an animal tranquilizer called xylazine. Addicts are shooting up in broad daylight, hunched over in a stupor or passed out on the streets. Many have raw, gaping wounds in desperate need of medical attention. And there are needles, syringes and garbage littered across the sidewalks. 'I've never seen human beings remain in these kinds of conditions,' said Sarah Laurel, who runs outreach organization Savage Sisters.

Daily Mail

No “two weeks to flatten the curve” for these wretched souls. Nah, here’s some clean needles, have at it.

 

[TSwizzle]

During the "pandemic", then LA City Mayor Eric Garcetti would have a daily press conference and solemnly mourn the deaths of Angelenos who had presumably died of Covid.

After a third homeless person was found dead on the streets of an affluent LA community, one exasperated resident said the area has become a 'third world city' and asked California's Democratic leadership: 'Where are our tax dollars going?' Angela Marsden, the owner of the Pineapple Hill Saloon and Grill in affluent Sherman Oaks, told Fox Los Angeles: 'How do we normalize this? This isn’t normal to me, this is a woman, this is somebody’s daughter, sister, dead on the street.' The woman's death was the third this week of a homeless person in the area.
An estimated 40,000 people are homeless in Los Angeles, a city of nearly 4 million. In Los Angeles County, the number is closer to 70,000 and is up four percent since 2020.

Daily Mail

I saw or heard somewhere that five people a day die on the streets of Los Angeles. Thankfully new mayor Karen Bass has declared a state of emergency on homelessness.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Another hell hole;

The Kensington neighborhood of Philadelphia - known as 'ground zero' for the city's drug epidemic - is in crisis due to widespread abuse of an animal tranquilizer called xylazine. Addicts are shooting up in broad daylight, hunched over in a stupor or passed out on the streets. Many have raw, gaping wounds in desperate need of medical attention. And there are needles, syringes and garbage littered across the sidewalks. 'I've never seen human beings remain in these kinds of conditions,' said Sarah Laurel, who runs outreach organization Savage Sisters.

Daily Mail

No “two weeks to flatten the curve” for these wretched souls. Nah, here’s some clean needles, have at it.

That's why you do needle exchange--gets the old ones returned rather than discarded.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

During the "pandemic", then LA City Mayor Eric Garcetti would have a daily press conference and solemnly mourn the deaths of Angelenos who had presumably died of Covid.

After a third homeless person was found dead on the streets of an affluent LA community, one exasperated resident said the area has become a 'third world city' and asked California's Democratic leadership: 'Where are our tax dollars going?' Angela Marsden, the owner of the Pineapple Hill Saloon and Grill in affluent Sherman Oaks, told Fox Los Angeles: 'How do we normalize this? This isn’t normal to me, this is a woman, this is somebody’s daughter, sister, dead on the street.' The woman's death was the third this week of a homeless person in the area.
An estimated 40,000 people are homeless in Los Angeles, a city of nearly 4 million. In Los Angeles County, the number is closer to 70,000 and is up four percent since 2020.

Daily Mail

I saw or heard somewhere that five people a day die on the streets of Los Angeles. Thankfully new mayor Karen Bass has declared a state of emergency on homelessness.

Google says 70k, not 40k--the Daily Fail doesn't even get it's stats right. 5 deaths/day is only twice the expected mortality rate in a group of that size, it doesn't mean much.

 

[TSwizzle]

A San Francisco court has released the shocking police bodycam footage showing the moment Paul Pelosi was violently assaulted with a hammer in his home in October. Paul, the husband of former Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, was asleep at their San Francisco home just before 2:00am on October 28 when 42-year-old David DePape broke in and beat him with a hammer, prosecutors allege. The video shows two police officers arriving at the Pelosi's home, knocking on the door and waiting around 20 seconds before it is answered.
Paul, in a pajama top and boxer shorts, answers the door as he and DePape both vie for control of a hammer. They each have a hand on the weapon while Paul has a drink in his left hand.

Daily Mail

Cops were a bit slow assessing the situation but I guess they were just caught off guard.

It's impressive the old geezer held onto his drink!

 

[thebeave]

This one is just plain sad. It has been in the news a lot here.

Oakland Baker and Activist Jen Angel Dies After Being Injured During a Violent Robbery

Jen Angel, owner and operator of Oakland bakery Angel Cakes, died on February 9 due to injuries sustained in a violent robbery. Angel was known not only as a maker of outstanding pies and treats, but also as a longtime organizer of the Anarchist Book Fair and a member of the Occupy Wall Street movement. The East Bay activist, writer, anarchist, and entrepreneur was declared to have lost all brain function by her medical team at Highland Hospital in Oakland on February 9. She was 48 years old.

In a statement on a GoFundMe launched to raise funds for medical costs, Angel’s family says that because of her political beliefs, they do not feel she would have wanted to see the people who attacked her prosecuted with a crime. Restorative justice, a framework Angel supported, is based on the idea that victims and perpetrators of harm should arbitrate and mediate to determine appropriate atonement and amendment, rather than defaulting to traditional forms of punishment including incarceration. In the statement, the family asks supporters to not “advance putting public resources into policing, incarceration, or other state violence that perpetuates the cycles of violence that resulted in this tragedy.”

 

[Politesse]

This one is just plain sad. It has been in the news a lot here.

Oakland Baker and Activist Jen Angel Dies After Being Injured During a Violent Robbery

Jen Angel, owner and operator of Oakland bakery Angel Cakes, died on February 9 due to injuries sustained in a violent robbery. Angel was known not only as a maker of outstanding pies and treats, but also as a longtime organizer of the Anarchist Book Fair and a member of the Occupy Wall Street movement. The East Bay activist, writer, anarchist, and entrepreneur was declared to have lost all brain function by her medical team at Highland Hospital in Oakland on February 9. She was 48 years old.

In a statement on a GoFundMe launched to raise funds for medical costs, Angel’s family says that because of her political beliefs, they do not feel she would have wanted to see the people who attacked her prosecuted with a crime. Restorative justice, a framework Angel supported, is based on the idea that victims and perpetrators of harm should arbitrate and mediate to determine appropriate atonement and amendment, rather than defaulting to traditional forms of punishment including incarceration. In the statement, the family asks supporters to not “advance putting public resources into policing, incarceration, or other state violence that perpetuates the cycles of violence that resulted in this tragedy.”

Goddamn tragedy is what it is. And a travesty, because Republicans are practically dancing on her grave, trying to twist her death into an excuse to piss on her legacy.

 

[Oleg]

Goddamn tragedy is what it is. And a travesty, because Republicans are practically dancing on her grave, trying to twist her death into an excuse to piss on her legacy.

Pathological altruism.

 

[Oleg]

There are consequences to bad policies.

 

[Oleg]

There are consequences to bad policies.

Zero Bail Case Study - Zero Bail Policies Increased Crime in Every Category | Yolo County District Attorney

yoloda.org

Key findings of this study include:

• Individuals released on Zero Bail were subsequently rearrested for a total of 163% more crimes than individuals released on bail.
• Arrested individuals released on Zero Bail reoffended at an average rate that was 70% higher than arrestees who posted bail.
• The average recidivism rate for those released on Zero Bail was 78% over 18 months, while the average recidivism rate for those released on bail was only 46%.
• Individuals released on Zero Bail committed new felonies 90% more often than those who posted bail.
• Individuals released on Zero Bail committed new misdemeanors 123% more often than those who posted bail.
• Individuals released on Zero Bail were rearrested for two or more new crimes 148% more often than those released on bail.
• Individuals released on Zero Bail committed new violent offenses 200% more often than those who posted bail.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

There are consequences to bad policies.

Zero Bail Case Study - Zero Bail Policies Increased Crime in Every Category | Yolo County District Attorney

yoloda.org

Key findings of this study include:

• Individuals released on Zero Bail were subsequently rearrested for a total of 163% more crimes than individuals released on bail.
• Arrested individuals released on Zero Bail reoffended at an average rate that was 70% higher than arrestees who posted bail.
• The average recidivism rate for those released on Zero Bail was 78% over 18 months, while the average recidivism rate for those released on bail was only 46%.
• Individuals released on Zero Bail committed new felonies 90% more often than those who posted bail.
• Individuals released on Zero Bail committed new misdemeanors 123% more often than those who posted bail.
• Individuals released on Zero Bail were rearrested for two or more new crimes 148% more often than those released on bail.
• Individuals released on Zero Bail committed new violent offenses 200% more often than those who posted bail.

More like bad data. We have a bunch of people released without bail due to Covid. Covid caused delays in the court system which would be expected to increase the crime rate. Thus they have a study showing crime went up when crime was expected to go up. Duh!

 

[TSwizzle]

There are consequences to bad policies.

Our politicians in California don't care;

Court documents show the extensive criminal history of 23-year-old Nathaniel Dixon of Selma, the man accused of shooting and killing 24-year-old Selma Police Officer, Gonzalo Carrasco Jr., on Tuesday. According to the court documents, in 2019 Dixon was convicted of second-degree felony robbery. He was in jail until July 2020 and then released on probation. Sheriff’s Office officials say a month after his release, Dixon was re-arrested for carrying a loaded gun and possession of drugs. The drug charge qualified for zero-dollar bail, which meant that he only had to put up $10,000 on the other charge. On August 19, 2020, Dixon was arrested again for five felonies and one misdemeanor, according to court documents. Those charges included possession of meth, being a felon with a firearm, and resisting a police officer. Dixon stayed in Jail until April 2022 when he was transferred to the state prison. Due to credits for time served and Assembly Bill 109, Dixon was released on probation. Once Dixon was released, the Sheriff’s Office says he was put on probation. In November 2022 he spent two weeks in jail for a violation, then he was released. On Tuesday, he was arrested again, this time for allegedly shooting and killing Selma Police Officer, 24-year-old Gonzalo Carrasco Jr. According to Mugridge, some of the charges qualify for special circumstances, meaning the District Attorney will likely ask for life in prison or the death penalty.

News

The insufferable prick Newsom has blood on his hands.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

That sounds awful. What was the solution to prevent this problem? Jail for life?