Breakdown In Civil Order

[steve_bank]

Yesterday three 14 year olds and one 12 year old in the area led police on a chase after an armed car jacking.

Anybody think this is nothing new and not reflective of a cultural issue?

Eh, Washington state has pretty much made it legal to steal a car and drive off. Cops can't chase unless there's probable cause of a felony, or such. Add in that these were minors, and it's a pat on the wrist. Tsk, tsk. For equity!

Uh, no. The police chased, and arrested, the youths in question. Well, the three older ones anyway, the twelve year old kind of got turned in by the neighbors once they realized he was involved.

And theft of a motor vehicle is a class B felony in Washington, so your claim about the law is both wrong and makes no logical sense.

Yes they made arrests. The police had to get permission to pursue. They were allowed to pursue because there was a potential link to armed robbery.

There were two min reasons given for the statewide limit on police pursuit.

1. Injury to bystanders form high speed pursuit.
2. The potential for the police use of excessive force.

From reporting. A cop sees a stolen car and pulls up behind with flashing light. The car speeds away and can not be pursued.


Same with pursuit on foot. A cop pulls up to a gas stion robbery and somebody sees the police runs away. Polce have no probe cause to pursue on foot and question.

The general result along with the destruction of the Seattle police department, increase in crime.

Our new mayor and police chief are having an impact, but they have limited resources.

There is a non profit in Seattle that provides bail for those who have high bail or can not afford any bail. From a recent report around half do not show up for court. Some commit robberie, assult and there have been murders.

Toxic altruism.

 

[bilby]

From reporting

There's a big part of your problem right there. The news isn't a good description of reality; It's a hyped description of the bits of reality that the editors think will most stimulate you to rage and/or fear, because that keeps you watching the advertising.

You are being manipulated by experts into believing that society at large is increasingly dangerous, when in fact the reverse is true.

You missed the third and fourth main reasons for limiting police pursuits -

3. It's unnecessary, because the perpetrators can almost certainly be found by other means; and
4. It encourages more vehicle thefts, because the perpetrators enjoy it.

A bunch of 12 and 13 year old car thieves are hoping for a high speed chase. It's what they stole the car for. If they can't get it, the whole exercise is much less fun for them, and they're less likely to repeat it.

 

[Elixir]

. It encourages more vehicle thefts, because the perpetrators enjoy it.

I believe it. In fact my one and only experience evading cops was extremely memorable. Ask me some time …

 

[Oleg]

You are being manipulated by experts into believing that society at large is increasingly dangerous, when in fact the reverse is true.

Steve, bilby is right. Don’t believe your lying eyes.

 

[Oleg]

. It encourages more vehicle thefts, because the perpetrators enjoy it.

I believe it. In fact my one and only experience evading cops was extremely memorable. Ask me some time …

Vehicle thefts in Washington state are skyrocketing, here's how to protect yourself

 

[Elixir]

I never stole a car. Just successfully evaded some State cops one time.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

From reporting

There's a big part of your problem right there. The news isn't a good description of reality; It's a hyped description of the bits of reality that the editors think will most stimulate you to rage and/or fear, because that keeps you watching the advertising.

You are being manipulated by experts into believing that society at large is increasingly dangerous, when in fact the reverse is true.

You missed the third and fourth main reasons for limiting police pursuits -

3. It's unnecessary, because the perpetrators can almost certainly be found by other means; and
4. It encourages more vehicle thefts, because the perpetrators enjoy it.

A bunch of 12 and 13 year old car thieves are hoping for a high speed chase. It's what they stole the car for. If they can't get it, the whole exercise is much less fun for them, and they're less likely to repeat it.

But most auto theft isn't kids who want a police pursuit.

Trying to correct "racial disparities" in policing is effectively a policy of minimizing prosecution of crimes that are disproportionately committed by non-whites.

And perpetrators can't be found by other means! Traffic offense--you can't prove they were the ones driving, nor can you prove the entirety of the offense. (Even if you catch them you can't prove they were drunk.) And it's of absolutely no deterrent value against auto theft because they don't know who is driving.

 

[Politesse]

Trying to correct "racial disparities" in policing is effectively a policy of minimizing prosecution of crimes that are disproportionately committed by non-whites.

A "fact" generally "proven" by citing the disproportionate number of arrests of people within racialized minorities.

But also not the reason for the law, as Steve has correctly noted.

 

[bilby]

But most auto theft isn't kids who want a police pursuit.

But the specific case that started this sub-thread was.

So I don't care about your but.

 

[Jarhyn]

I carry this with me all the time.

View attachment 41790

I speak softly and carry a big stick.

It is quite effective advice.

 

[Swammerdami]

Let's congratulate the people of SF. They're getting what they voted for. So lucky.

Reddies love to laugh at blue-state miseries. Do blueies laugh at the meth-heads and junkies of red states? Is this the way to restore America's sense of unity?

 

[Oleg]

Let's congratulate the people of SF. They're getting what they voted for. So lucky.

Reddies love to laugh at blue-state miseries. Do blueies laugh at the meth-heads and junkies of red states? Is this the way to restore America's sense of unity?

What has happened in SF is a policy choice. The voters in SF elected politicians who enacted these policy choices. They could always vote them out and elect politicians who care about public order. But they don’t. So they’re getting what they voted for, good and hard.

 

[Elixir]

Reddies love to laugh at blue-state miseries. Do blueies laugh at the meth-heads and junkies of red states? Is this the way to restore America's sense of unity?

Of course not! What we (obviously) need, is for all those libs on the coasts to knock up their teenage daughters, eschew education for all their children, join snake handling cults, buy big lifted 4x4 trucks and attach lots of flags to it advertising their fealty to their favorite conmen.
THAT is how you create unity! (or at least, equality)

 

[thebeave]

Let's congratulate the people of SF. They're getting what they voted for. So lucky.

Reddies love to laugh at blue-state miseries. Do blueies laugh at the meth-heads and junkies of red states? Is this the way to restore America's sense of unity?

Not aware of blueies laughing at the meth-heads and junkies of the red states, but the blueies sure like to laugh about the deaths of the unvaccinated reddies. Is this the way to restore America's sense of unity?

 

[Oleg]

Not aware of blueies laughing at the meth-heads and junkies of the red states,

Is it really “laughing” though? I’d suggest it’s a bit of anger that they let this happen; plus frustration that the lefties try to shout down anyone who points it out. See responses to Steve’s posts.

 

[lpetrich]

Not aware of blueies laughing at the meth-heads and junkies of the red states, but the blueies sure like to laugh about the deaths of the unvaccinated reddies. Is this the way to restore America's sense of unity?

Why should it only be the "blueies" who should try to be conciliatory? Especially as they receive nothing but hostility and contempt from the "reddies". The "reddies" claim to believe in Jesus Christ, and Jesus Christ taught that one should love one's enemies, not hate them. I think that if Jesus Christ made his Second Coming, the "reddies" would hate him and call him a fraud.

 

[Oleg]

What? No way.

“There isn’t a huge appetite for aggressive police work out there, and the risk/reward, certainly, we’re there and we’re sworn to protect and serve, but you also have to protect yourself and your family,” said Scott Gerlicher, a Minneapolis police commander who retired this year. “Nobody in the job or working on the job can blame those officers for being less aggressive.”

In the year after Floyd’s death on May 25, 2020, the number of people approached on the street by officers who considered them suspicious dropped by 76%, Reuters found after analyzing more than 2.2 million police dispatches in the city. Officers stopped 85% fewer cars for traffic violations. As they stopped fewer people, they found and seized fewer illegal guns.

Hands-Off Patrol

After Floyd's killing, Minneapolis police retreated, data shows

www.reuters.com

 

[Gospel]

And theft of a motor vehicle is a class B felony in Washington, so your claim about the law is both wrong and makes no logical sense.

See ya! Washington police say drivers aren’t stopping for them; cite pursuit restrictions

Since January of this year, more than 900 drivers have failed to stop for a Washington State Patrol trooper trying to pull them over. The patrol and other police agencies around the state say they’ve never seen such blatant disregard for their lights and sirens. The change in driver behavior...

www.opb.org

The Washington State Patrol (WSP) says drivers refusing to stop for troopers is an increasingly common occurrence. From January 1 to May 17 of this year, the agency logged 934 failure-to-yield incidents. While the patrol didn't track this in the past, veteran troopers say there’s been a dramatic uptick in drivers fleeing traffic stops.

Strachan and others in law enforcement connect the increase in failures-to-yield to passage last year of House Bill 1054, a sweeping police tactics law that, among other things, barred high-speed pursuits except in very limited circumstances. The law was part of a package of police reforms majority Democrats passed in response to the murder of George Floyd in Minneapolis and other high-profile police killings — reforms aimed at addressing racial disproportionality in policing.

The law in question did not change the legal status of auto theft.

But it incentivized fleeing the police. That's the point. You don't have to stop. The criminals are well aware of this.

Since when was it a trend for criminals to stop for police? As far back as I can recall, running is what they do regardless of what the law prohibits officers to do. The no chase rule was put in place to prevent innocent bystanders from getting injured. Whether that was the right call is another thing. They likely have data to support that decision. It wasn't to show mercy to the criminals like you seem to be insinuating. I mean Gosh bro if you actually read the bill the parts about high speed chases is drenched in concerns for public safety.

 

[ZiprHead]

What? No way.

“There isn’t a huge appetite for aggressive police work out there, and the risk/reward, certainly, we’re there and we’re sworn to protect and serve, but you also have to protect yourself and your family,” said Scott Gerlicher, a Minneapolis police commander who retired this year. “Nobody in the job or working on the job can blame those officers for being less aggressive.”

In the year after Floyd’s death on May 25, 2020, the number of people approached on the street by officers who considered them suspicious dropped by 76%, Reuters found after analyzing more than 2.2 million police dispatches in the city. Officers stopped 85% fewer cars for traffic violations. As they stopped fewer people, they found and seized fewer illegal guns.

Hands-Off Patrol

After Floyd's killing, Minneapolis police retreated, data shows

www.reuters.com

Yes, of course. If they can't murder the perps they can't do their jobs.

 

[Patooka]

Yes, of course. If they can't murder the perps they can't do their jobs.

David Grossman agrees with you. Although for some reason Grossman's website no longer uses the phrase "killology" anymore...weird.