Chris Christie: I would track immigrants like FedEx packages

[Axulus]

In 2012, 5.9 million unauthorized immigrants from Mexico lived in the U.S., down about 1 million from 2007. Despite the drop, Mexicans still make up a slight majority (52% in 2012) of unauthorized immigrants. At the same time, unauthorized immigration overall has leveled off in recent years. As a result, net migration from Mexico likely reached zero in 2010, and since then more Mexicans have left the U.S. than have arrived.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/07/15/what-we-know-about-illegal-immigration-from-mexico/

Just another reason why conservatives are out of touch with reality.

 

[maxparrish]

Third, why don't you hold anyone criminally responsible for the social-welfare costs, crime, wage impact, and environmental impact from 10s of millions of legal and illegal immigration? Why do you support redistribution of well being from the working class to foreign nationals?

Question, are we talking about the illegals that make veggies so cheap?

Were talking about the illegals which do more harm than good, via many metrics. I know of no study or paper that says the price of veggies is substantially cheaper because of the net addition of illegals as opposed to LEGAL temporary workers.

 

[maxparrish]

Only when it comes to Murica.

- - - Updated - - -

there is nothing morally objectionable to making foreign nationals wear anklets or submit to chipping.

Except for the whole treating them like property or nothings instead of human beings part, but you don't know what a human being is, and I bet you don't even know what an American is.

They are being treated as human beings with a free will, in other words they are owned by no other than themselves. They have a choice, they can either agree to the tagging requirements for visitation or they can decline. If they decline, they must go elsewhere or go home. If they avoid border controls and tagging, and enter, they forfeit their liberty for having violated a rightful law and are either punished and/or deported.

The are free to come, but on the terms of the host nation.

That'll do wonders for our economy: "America, stay the fuck out and do business elsewhere."

I would hold you and anyone else supporting this criminally responsible for the ensuing recession and general economic decline of the country.

Nonsense.

First, I have been speaking of the morality of tagging (microchipping or bracelet wearing) those who "visit". I have argued that there is nothing wrong with it. But whether or not I would do so, and to whom it would apply, is a different question. Most likely it would only need to be applied to high risk categories (e.g. Mexicans) or exempted for low risk categories ( professionals with employment in their country of origin).

Second, it would have little effect on the economy. Immigration in general has added little to the economy, and illegals have added nothing of substance. It would only result in some symbolic and token protest from whining Euro-progressives - people that have enough to worry about with their out of control immigration troubles.

Third, why don't you hold anyone criminally responsible for the social-welfare costs, crime, wage impact, and environmental impact from 10s of millions of legal and illegal immigration? Why do you support redistribution of well being from the working class to foreign nationals?

It's not just immigration. Tourism would have a severe decline that would make the post 9-11 PATRIOT ACT decline look like a piece of statistical noise in comparison. Many companies would want to stop doing business here due to the type of bullshit you propose. What executive that doesn't have shit for brains would want to undergo that kind of treatment when coming here for a business meeting?

As I said, certain categories of VISA could be exempted. Business travelers, perhaps grad students, and professionals from any nation might be exempted. But "rice grain" micro-chipping of ag workers, Mexicans, and central americans would be a priority. The members of nearby hemispheric peasant cultures are the among the least desirable, as well as the most likely to gain entry and become illegals.

 

[Ford]

As I said, certain categories of VISA could be exempted. Business travelers, perhaps grad students, and professionals from any nation. White People might be exempted. But "rice grain" micro-chipping of ag workers, Mexicans, and central americans Brown people would be a priority. The members of nearby hemispheric peasant insufficiently Aryan cultures are the among the least desirable, as well as the most likely to gain entry and become illegals.

FTFY.

 

[maxparrish]

In 2012, 5.9 million unauthorized immigrants from Mexico lived in the U.S., down about 1 million from 2007. Despite the drop, Mexicans still make up a slight majority (52% in 2012) of unauthorized immigrants. At the same time, unauthorized immigration overall has leveled off in recent years. As a result, net migration from Mexico likely reached zero in 2010, and since then more Mexicans have left the U.S. than have arrived.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/07/15/what-we-know-about-illegal-immigration-from-mexico/

Just another reason why conservatives are out of touch with reality.

Are you responding to a post, or just posting an irrelevant and problematical factoid?

 

[atrib]

I am sure he only intended that for the poor brown skinned people. The point is that he is objectifying human beings...treating them like Fedex packages.

Yup. Racism, xenophobia and hatred of a certain class of people all wrapped up in a neat package.

As I said, certain categories of VISA could be exempted. Business travelers, perhaps grad students, and professionals from any nation might be exempted. But "rice grain" micro-chipping of ag workers, Mexicans, and central americans would be a priority. The members of nearby hemispheric peasant cultures are the among the least desirable, as well as the most likely to gain entry and become illegals.

Of all the asinine, half baked ideas I have heard max voice in the past, I think his views on treating certain classes of foreign visitors as cattle, to be surgically tagged, forced into slave labor camps, and transported around the country in cattle cars reaches a new low in general stupidity and repugnance.

 

[aeebee50]

He should just drop out.

 

[bilby]

Racial Nativist. That's the category.

I prefer 'Fucking loony', but they are pretty much synonymous.

 

[bleubird]

https://www.google.com/search?q=hum...6lWhLnJgM:&usg=__EFi1BKq59WrDe8EPflZB65sS8mw=
I have Alaska Native Friends.They came from somewhere.Where did your grand daddy come from?

 

[Archimedes]

Burkina Faso.

Hasn't been 'Upper Volta' since 1984.

"I'd like to send this letter to the Prussian consulate in Siam by aeromail. Am I too late for the 4:30 autogyro?"

:laughing-smiley-014

From now on I'm going to read max's posts in Mr. Burns voice.

 

[maxparrish]

Yup. Racism, xenophobia and hatred of a certain class of people all wrapped up in a neat package.

As I said, certain categories of VISA could be exempted. Business travelers, perhaps grad students, and professionals from any nation might be exempted. But "rice grain" micro-chipping of ag workers, Mexicans, and central americans would be a priority. The members of nearby hemispheric peasant cultures are the among the least desirable, as well as the most likely to gain entry and become illegals.

Of all the asinine, half baked ideas I have heard max voice in the past, I think his views on treating certain classes of foreign visitors as cattle, to be surgically tagged, forced into slave labor camps, and transported around the country in cattle cars reaches a new low in general stupidity and repugnance.

Good gosh, such over-baked hobgoblinization. Certain classes of foreign visitors and guest workers are not being treated like cattle, they are being required to carry electronic documentation in a tiny packet on their (in their) person. But rather than carry a passport or visa, they carry a tiny chip. For example:

People have already 'treated themselves like cattle' and experimented with hypo injection just beneath the skin, the first one done over 10 years ago.

Thousands of technology enthusiasts use it as the ultimate app, enabling them to lock and unlock their homes, cars, computers and mobile phones with a simple wave of a hand. But there’s a catch: they must have a microchip inserted into their bodies.

The idea may seem weird, and painful, but human microchipping appears to appeal not only to amateurs, who call themselves biohackers, but also to governments, police forces, medical authorities and security companies.

It involves using a hypodermic needle to inject an RFID (radio-frequency identification) microchip, the size of a grain of rice, usually into the person’s hand or wrist. The same kind of chip is used for tracking lost pets.

http://topinfopost.com/2014/04/17/injecting-under-your-skin-human-microchipping

I am rather surprised that an otherwise technology sympathetic forum are so old fashioned and near-luddite when it comes to these new devices. For all the wailing and gnashing, it is a modern and logical means to track visitors and guest workers, done for the sole purpose of making sure they go home when their visa expires; it is actually a rather nifty option.

There is no harm to the foreign person, other than a bit of self-important huffy indignity over not being trusted (and possible resentment that they may have to go home).

Finally, I didn't know that penal detention for those who broke the law are actually 'slave labor camps'; anymore than modified box cars are destined to be concentration camp transport.

If you take the borders seriously, you tag, bag, pack, and ship them out. You send a message - get caught and life will not be so pleasant.

 

[Ford]

I didn't know that penal detention for those who broke the law are actually 'slave labor camps'; anymore than modified box cars are destined to be concentration camp transport.

Based on your responses in this thread, I think you know exactly what the implications of your proposals are. You've been very clear that you consider Mexicans in particular to be "undesirable." You balked a bit at calling them sub-human, but also said their human rights were irrelevant.

You're not explicitly arguing for genocide, but you are arguing in favor of measures that would make ethnic cleansing possible.


Don't be shy, Max. Just come right out and say you want to cleanse the Mexicans.

 

[arkirk]

Yup. Racism, xenophobia and hatred of a certain class of people all wrapped up in a neat package.

As I said, certain categories of VISA could be exempted. Business travelers, perhaps grad students, and professionals from any nation might be exempted. But "rice grain" micro-chipping of ag workers, Mexicans, and central americans would be a priority. The members of nearby hemispheric peasant cultures are the among the least desirable, as well as the most likely to gain entry and become illegals.

Of all the asinine, half baked ideas I have heard max voice in the past, I think his views on treating certain classes of foreign visitors as cattle, to be surgically tagged, forced into slave labor camps, and transported around the country in cattle cars reaches a new low in general stupidity and repugnance.

Now see here Max. This clearly is indicative of your low regard for some members of the human race and completely without any real justification. The next thing we will hear you start talking like Trump about Mexicans being rapists and strong arm robbers. You appear to have no understanding of the U.N. position on refugees and even less understanding how these people came to be refugees in the first place.

 

[Godless Raven]

Christie could do it too. He's already tracking Big Mac's like Fed Ex packages.

 

[maxparrish]

I didn't know that penal detention for those who broke the law are actually 'slave labor camps'; anymore than modified box cars are destined to be concentration camp transport.

Based on your responses in this thread, I think you know exactly what the implications of your proposals are. You've been very clear that you consider Mexicans in particular to be "undesirable." You balked a bit at calling them sub-human, but also said their human rights were irrelevant.

You're not explicitly arguing for genocide, but you are arguing in favor of measures that would make ethnic cleansing possible.


Don't be shy, Max. Just come right out and say you want to cleanse the Mexicans.

Whatever my real or imagined feelings are towards certain nationalities are irrelevant, as is all the histrionic hair pulling and hand-waving by critics. Almost without exception, the "argument" against my views has been little more than emoting and name-calling, with desperate (if oblique) allusions to the policies of the Nazi regime. "Xenophobe", "racist", "f'ing looney", and "where did your grand-daddy come from"...etc. are comments that are intellectually barren, merely the retching of unsupported feelings.

In sum, my critics have failed to argue (let alone prove) that "human rights" are violated or that nation-states do not have a right to control or prevent immigration.

Finally, I DO know the implications of my proposals. It "implies" that uncontrolled immigration, legal chain migration has been, and will continue to be, detrimental to the well being of the American people. I "imply" that certain nationalities are the source of the strong majority of illegal (and legal) immigration and that, as a general proposition, such nations provide too many undesirable immigrants (poor, unskilled, welfare dependent, and 2nd generation crime prone). I "imply" that stern measures are necessary to stem the flow, 'tough unlove' that does not pamper and encourage more to violate the border.

And yes, I'd rather have seen a majority of Mexicans and Central Americans (but not all) stay in Mexico; as well as the strong majority of Muslims remain their country of origin. On the other hand, I find the smaller numbers Indians, Chinese, Vietnamese, non-Russian Europeans, and others to have been, as a whole, a plus.

Why? Because I wish the quality of my life to be better. So if someone can tell me why that is an "immoral" principle, I'd like to hear it. Till then...

 

[laughing dog]

Were talking about the illegals which do more harm than good, via many metrics. I know of no study or paper that says the price of veggies is substantially cheaper because of the net addition of illegals as opposed to LEGAL temporary workers.

You are implicitly arguing that reducing the supply of workers (especially ones who are less likely to make civil and criminal complaints against illegal acts) does not affect the wages in that market. Really?

 

[maxparrish]

No, I am arguing that I know of no study or paper that says that because of illegals the price of veggies is substantively cheaper as opposed to relying on legal workers. Of course wages will tend to be a little higher without illegals (at least until temporary legal worker quotas are raised); but there is no proof that added cost is great enough to have a substantive impact on prices (and one must remember that 1/2 our non-grain food is imported).

 

[Jayjay]

Yup. Racism, xenophobia and hatred of a certain class of people all wrapped up in a neat package.



Of all the asinine, half baked ideas I have heard max voice in the past, I think his views on treating certain classes of foreign visitors as cattle, to be surgically tagged, forced into slave labor camps, and transported around the country in cattle cars reaches a new low in general stupidity and repugnance.

Good gosh, such over-baked hobgoblinization. Certain classes of foreign visitors and guest workers are not being treated like cattle, they are being required to carry electronic documentation in a tiny packet on their (in their) person. But rather than carry a passport or visa, they carry a tiny chip. For example:

People have already 'treated themselves like cattle' and experimented with hypo injection just beneath the skin, the first one done over 10 years ago.

Thousands of technology enthusiasts use it as the ultimate app, enabling them to lock and unlock their homes, cars, computers and mobile phones with a simple wave of a hand. But there’s a catch: they must have a microchip inserted into their bodies.

The idea may seem weird, and painful, but human microchipping appears to appeal not only to amateurs, who call themselves biohackers, but also to governments, police forces, medical authorities and security companies.

It involves using a hypodermic needle to inject an RFID (radio-frequency identification) microchip, the size of a grain of rice, usually into the person’s hand or wrist. The same kind of chip is used for tracking lost pets.

http://topinfopost.com/2014/04/17/injecting-under-your-skin-human-microchipping

I am rather surprised that an otherwise technology sympathetic forum are so old fashioned and near-luddite when it comes to these new devices. For all the wailing and gnashing, it is a modern and logical means to track visitors and guest workers, done for the sole purpose of making sure they go home when their visa expires; it is actually a rather nifty option.

There is no harm to the foreign person, other than a bit of self-important huffy indignity over not being trusted (and possible resentment that they may have to go home).

Except, if the guest worker doesn't want to leave it would be rather easy to block the signal or have the chip removed. It's good for tracking a willing participant, but not someone who doesn't want to be tracked.

Unless of course, you make the chip mandatory for everyone and scan it everywhere. Then whoever doesn't belong is easy to spot.

 

[nightwyrm]

Good gosh, such over-baked hobgoblinization. Certain classes of foreign visitors and guest workers are not being treated like cattle, they are being required to carry electronic documentation in a tiny packet on their (in their) person. But rather than carry a passport or visa, they carry a tiny chip. For example:

People have already 'treated themselves like cattle' and experimented with hypo injection just beneath the skin, the first one done over 10 years ago.

Thousands of technology enthusiasts use it as the ultimate app, enabling them to lock and unlock their homes, cars, computers and mobile phones with a simple wave of a hand. But there’s a catch: they must have a microchip inserted into their bodies.

The idea may seem weird, and painful, but human microchipping appears to appeal not only to amateurs, who call themselves biohackers, but also to governments, police forces, medical authorities and security companies.

It involves using a hypodermic needle to inject an RFID (radio-frequency identification) microchip, the size of a grain of rice, usually into the person’s hand or wrist. The same kind of chip is used for tracking lost pets.

http://topinfopost.com/2014/04/17/injecting-under-your-skin-human-microchipping

I am rather surprised that an otherwise technology sympathetic forum are so old fashioned and near-luddite when it comes to these new devices. For all the wailing and gnashing, it is a modern and logical means to track visitors and guest workers, done for the sole purpose of making sure they go home when their visa expires; it is actually a rather nifty option.

There is no harm to the foreign person, other than a bit of self-important huffy indignity over not being trusted (and possible resentment that they may have to go home).

Except, if the guest worker doesn't want to leave it would be rather easy to block the signal or have the chip removed. It's good for tracking a willing participant, but not someone who doesn't want to be tracked.

Unless of course, you make the chip mandatory for everyone and scan it everywhere. Then whoever doesn't belong is easy to spot.

There's always the option of implanting it somewhere where the removal will kill you.

 

[laughing dog]

No, I am arguing that I know of no study or paper that says that because of illegals the price of veggies is substantively cheaper as opposed to relying on legal workers.

Clearly there are substantially fewer legal workers otherwise the undocumented workers would not be used. So, the supply of domestically produced vegetables would have to "shift up". So, either the price of the affected vegetables goes up or our trade deficit worsens.

Of course wages will tend to be a little higher without illegals (at least until temporary legal worker quotas are raised); but there is no proof that added cost is great enough to have a substantive impact on prices (and one must remember that 1/2 our non-grain food is imported).

Why would you think that raising temporary legal worker quotas would somehow stem the flow of these workers? Are you willing to fund the INS suffiiciently to track down and deport any and all workers who overstay their limit or is your plan to inject them with some time release toxin that becomes active the day after the limit is reached unless they get the serum on their way home?