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Covid-19 miscellany

Trausti

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Time to lift all restrictions and stop with the vaccination, mask mandates/passports etc;
Why? Because they're working?

The vaccines may aid somewhat, but everything else is crap.
The vaccines are providing more than a magnitude of improvement and prevention. So it isn't "may". They are. How the hell did partisanship become so warped, that people like you are making these ridiculous arguments?

How many people who’ve had the Polio vaccine got Polio? The Covid vaccines do not stop infection or transmission. But you’re probably still better off getting it. Everything else - the masks, social distancing, lockdowns- is just for show. Those have become pure partisan politics, as there’s no science those measures do much at all. Was in Florida recently, and the freedom was wonderful. The Branch Covidians hate that.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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Time to lift all restrictions and stop with the vaccination, mask mandates/passports etc;
Why? Because they're working?

The vaccines may aid somewhat, but everything else is crap.
The vaccines are providing more than a magnitude of improvement and prevention. So it isn't "may". They are. How the hell did partisanship become so warped, that people like you are making these ridiculous arguments?

The Covid vaccines do not stop infection or transmission.
False.
But you’re probably still better off getting it.
Probably? No, are. Are better getting it. By far. It isn't remotely up for question. Been confirmed everywhere. Even with the milder Omicron, 10 or 20 to 1 unvax'd in hospitals to vax'd.
Everything else - the masks, social distancing, lockdowns- is just for show. Those have become pure partisan politics, as there’s science those measures do much at all. Was in Florida recently, and the freedom was wonderful. The Branch Covidians hate that.
Yeah, insanity. You are bitching about how the vaccine isn't stopping transmission, but then whine about masks, of which properly worn N95 WOULD STOP TRANSMISSION.

That freedom got a lot of people killed, more than Vietnam.
 

Trausti

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Supreme Court just struck down Biden’s large company mandate, but let the health care worker mandate stand.
SCOTUS Decision

Really, this is one of those, should be 9-0 or 8-1 with Thomas dissenting types of decisions.

No really. An agency has narrow authority from Congress to make rules. Congress has never provided vaccine authority to OSHA. If there be a vaccine mandate, let Congress vote on it.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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Jimmy Higgins

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Supreme Court just struck down Biden’s large company mandate, but let the health care worker mandate stand.
SCOTUS Decision

Really, this is one of those, should be 9-0 or 8-1 with Thomas dissenting types of decisions.

No really. An agency has narrow authority from Congress to make rules. Congress has never provided vaccine authority to OSHA. If there be a vaccine mandate, let Congress vote on it.
Except OSHA deals with workplace safety. This pandemic is a workplace issue everywhere. SCOTUS could have easily let it be, instead of relying on technicalities to meddle in public health.
 

Don2 (Don1 Revised)

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There is no evidence to suggest the vaccine is no better than saline solution to preventing transmission. It isn't "effective" at stopping transmission, which isn't black and white term. The vaccinated are less likely to get it, just not significantly less likely anymore.
There was a South Africa study back in December that said pfizer vaccine was 30% effective at stopping transmission of omicron vs 80% for delta. When I see a "..." in a quote of a public health official, I have to wonder if there is bigger context here. But anyway, when omicron is so fricking contagious and spreading probably from multiple people around you 30% is pretty much 0 when in comparison to delta, you have like 1 person around you with it and 80% chance of stopping it. So, it's also possible she was just trying to put the practical reality of omicron spreading on the table for laymen and to underscore how important mask wearing is in addition to vaxxing and thraxxing. Full quote with context needed to confirm, but it's not the first time she's been quote-mined or edited out...
 

TSwizzle

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The vaccinated are less likely to get it, just not significantly less likely anymore.

LOL. Eleven out of eleven people at my house on Christmas day got the covid. Every single person had been double dosed, some had gotten a booster including myself about a week before Christmas. So on that evidence, I personally will not be participating in vaccination any further and will rail against all mandates.

This is not about public health.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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The vaccinated are less likely to get it, just not significantly less likely anymore.

LOL. Eleven out of eleven people at my house on Christmas day got the covid.
Oh goody, anecdotal evidence... THE BEST!

My Xmas brunch, none of us were stupid to get it and in NE Ohio, we have a Delta and Omicron wave.
Every single person had been double dosed, some had gotten a booster including myself about a week before Christmas. So on that evidence, I personally will not be participating in vaccination any further and will rail against all mandates.
Man, talk about poor decision making. Vaccinated people are more than a magnitude less likely from being hospitalized and are dying much less than unvax'd. TSwizzle see's this info and thinks because he got breakthrough, it isn't worth it.

This is not about public health.
No, none of your posts have about that.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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Meanwhile, in just how well things are going, several states have the National Guard in hospitals, because there aren't enough people to handle the cases of Covid-19. Ohio, Oregon, New Hampshire, Hawaii, Rhode Island, Minnesota, California, etc...

19 states have fewer than 15% of their ICUs available.

This will wind down in short time, but again, we've got a lot of people out there telling companies their employees in the National Guard can't do their job, that the hospital workers have to just suck it up some more, because they just don't have a clue.
 

TSwizzle

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Meanwhile, in just how well things are going, several states have the National Guard in hospitals, because there aren't enough people to handle the cases of Covid-19. Ohio, Oregon, New Hampshire, Hawaii, Rhode Island, Minnesota, California, etc...

19 states have fewer than 15% of their ICUs available.

This will wind down in short time, but again, we've got a lot of people out there telling companies their employees in the National Guard can't do their job, that the hospital workers have to just suck it up some more, because they just don't have a clue.

I thought president Biden was going to shut this virus down?

Let's Go Brandon !!
 

jab

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Don2 (Don1 Revised)

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The vaccinated are less likely to get it, just not significantly less likely anymore.

LOL. Eleven out of eleven people at my house on Christmas day got the covid. Every single person had been double dosed, some had gotten a booster including myself about a week before Christmas. So on that evidence, I personally will not be participating in vaccination any further and will rail against all mandates.

This is not about public health.
So you didn't wear a mask, thinking that each incident you became exposed from family, you were safe from it????? That's crazy! And you didn't quarantine each person who got it? That's crazy, too! Fortunately, the effects from omicron are much less severe.
 

jab

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You can always tell if someone isn't taking the mask seriously when they have not pinched the top to fit the nose. If he has even worn that other than on his chin he has not pinched it at the nose.
The one he is wearing does not have metal strip for nose.
You can't tell. Some masks like that have a wire over the nose. When the mask is flat in the package the wire is flat, but it's there and you can bend it to fit your nose.
true
 

TSwizzle

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Oh goody, anecdotal evidence... THE BEST!

It is anecdotal to you but since it actually happened to me I go by my own experiences.

Man, talk about poor decision making. Vaccinated people are more than a magnitude less likely from being hospitalized and are dying much less than unvax'd. TSwizzle see's this info and thinks because he got breakthrough, it isn't worth it.

Not to me it's not but you are of course free to make your own choices.
 

jab

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The Australian government's treatment of Novak Djokovic is shameful.

I agree entirely.

He should have been deported without delay, and banned from returning for five years, like any other person whose visa is revoked at the border.

Allowing him and his family to turn this simple and common process into a media circus due to his wealth and fame is a total disgrace.
The Australian government's treatment of Novak Djokovic is shameful.

I agree entirely.

He should have been deported without delay, and banned from returning for five years, like any other person whose visa is revoked at the border.
Why ought he have been deported without delay? Djokovic obtained an exemption from the government.

In its submission to the court, the federal government argued Djokovic should not be exempt from vaccination requirements for international travellers.

Both Tennis Australia and the Victorian government had granted him a medical exemption to compete despite not meeting vaccine requirements, due to his recent COVID-19 infection.

On arrival last week, Border Force officials revoked his visa, and the judge ruled Djokovic was not given a reasonable period to respond.

Allowing him and his family to turn this simple and common process into a media circus due to his wealth and fame is a total disgrace.
Djokovic did no such thing. He did not deceive anybody. He applied for and was granted an exemption.

If the Australian government's position is now 'we changed our mind', there is still no reason to ban him for five years.
Your post is out of date: it turns out 1. that he (or his agent) lied, er, accidentally entered false information on his entry form as to whether he had been anywhere else but his home country in the period before entering Australia, and 2. that he either lied to Australia about his positive COVID test in December or he broke Serbian law by galivanting about in public, maskless, in Serbia after receiving his positive test.
 
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TomC

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Time to lift all restrictions and stop with the vaccination, mask mandates/passports etc;

By "lift all restrictions", do you mean that private concerns should be forced to abide by your preference? Should private employers, stores, health care providers, and venues be forced to lift restrictions that they deem reasonable?

Should the government be given the power to enforce compliance on private concerns?
Or what?
Tom
 

jab

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Well, finally I'm getting my booster shot tomorrow - somewhat late, but it could have been worse.

They tell me it's a Pfizer vaccine (after 2 doses of AZ). Over here, Pfizer's vaccine have been authorized for use up to 90 days after the expiration date (not to throw them away then they expire, perhaps due to mismanagement), and it seems a considerable percentage are indeed expired, though I do not know the actual numbers.
I'm not sure what impact - if any - that would have on effectiveness if I get an expired vaccine. I know many drugs are okay after the expiration date, but I'm not sure for how long that would be for the Pfizer vaccine.
Best wishes. I hope you don't get an expired vaccine booster.
 

T.G.G. Moogly

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Not to me it's not but you are of course free to make your own choices.
Like seat belts and stop signs. Everyone is free to ignore. And DUI too. I love freedom but some people confuse freedom with the right to inflict harm on others. Gotta love 'em.
 

TSwizzle

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How many people who’ve had the Polio vaccine got Polio?

And how regularly did one get vaccinated against Polio? I believe I have had one Polio vaccination in my life. I've had three covid vaccinations in less than 12 months. And I still got the effing covid.

Was in Florida recently, and the freedom was wonderful. The Branch Covidians hate that.

Did you come across AOC?
 

Jimmy Higgins

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Meanwhile, in just how well things are going, several states have the National Guard in hospitals, because there aren't enough people to handle the cases of Covid-19. Ohio, Oregon, New Hampshire, Hawaii, Rhode Island, Minnesota, California, etc...

19 states have fewer than 15% of their ICUs available.

This will wind down in short time, but again, we've got a lot of people out there telling companies their employees in the National Guard can't do their job, that the hospital workers have to just suck it up some more, because they just don't have a clue.

I thought president Biden was going to shut this virus down?

Let's Go Brandon !!
Actually, the accusation was the Democrats were going to stop caring about it.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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How many people who’ve had the Polio vaccine got Polio?
And how regularly did one get vaccinated against Polio? I believe I have had one Polio vaccination in my life. I've had three covid vaccinations in less than 12 months. And I still got the effing covid.
Well, if some Americans weren't assholes about vaccination and masking and distancing... but no, they needed to help breed variants.
 

TSwizzle

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How many people who’ve had the Polio vaccine got Polio?
And how regularly did one get vaccinated against Polio? I believe I have had one Polio vaccination in my life. I've had three covid vaccinations in less than 12 months. And I still got the effing covid.
Well, if some Americans weren't assholes about vaccination and masking and distancing... but no, they needed to help breed variants.

Like AOC?
 

Jarhyn

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Oh, so, there was also this that my husband linked me. Apparently cannabis is good for preventing Covid:
 

Angra Mainyu

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Angra Mainyu,
It's been only couple of days. And what's the point anyway? We know omicron is going to spread. And they test for it.
I got the impression you were trying to figure out what it was (but now seems it's already dominant in Russia, so it's Omicron).
 

Angra Mainyu

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The vaccinated are less likely to get it, just not significantly less likely anymore.

LOL. Eleven out of eleven people at my house on Christmas day got the covid. Every single person had been double dosed, some had gotten a booster including myself about a week before Christmas. So on that evidence, I personally will not be participating in vaccination any further and will rail against all mandates.

This is not about public health.
First, that is very weak evidence. There are millions of cases to consider, and that gives one much better evidence.
Second, how many of them got seriously sick?
Third, a week is probably too soon for the booster to be effective.. You should have gotten the booster one week earlier to make it work.
 

T.G.G. Moogly

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There's a grain of truth in what Swiz is saying. Vaccinations are good, and even 99.99 percent of antivaxers would get vaxed for a major illness. But would you keep getting vaxed against the common cold or flu? I get a flu shot because it makes sense. I'm vaccinated against tetanus and shingles and a bunch of other things, and I suppose I'd get shots twice annually because those things are the pits.

But I just got over omicron myself. It sucked but it was just like a summer cold. I guess if I wore a mask while I was ill it would help keep others from getting ill but I just stayed at home, and recovered. The point is that Omicron is not as deadly and that's a good thing so I feel less threatened than I did a year ago.

I'm not saying to not get the shots, I'm talking about the masks.
 

jab

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The vaccinated are less likely to get it, just not significantly less likely anymore.

LOL. Eleven out of eleven people at my house on Christmas day got the covid. Every single person had been double dosed, some had gotten a booster including myself about a week before Christmas. So on that evidence, I personally will not be participating in vaccination any further and will rail against all mandates.

This is not about public health.
First, that is very weak evidence. There are millions of cases to consider, and that gives one much better evidence.
Second, how many of them got seriously sick?
Third, a week is probably too soon for the booster to be effective.. You should have gotten the booster one week earlier to make it work.
yes.
 

TSwizzle

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LOL. Eleven out of eleven people at my house on Christmas day got the covid. Every single person had been double dosed, some had gotten a booster including myself about a week before Christmas. So on that evidence, I personally will not be participating in vaccination any further and will rail against all mandates.
First, that is very weak evidence. There are millions of cases to consider, and that gives one much better evidence.

It's just a fact, eleven out of eleven got covid and they were all vaccinated. I don't need to consider millions of cases, just the eleven in my circle is enough for me.

Second, how many of them got seriously sick?

Nobody got really sick or required any medical attention. And there was a wide range of ages, youngest was 19, eldest was 78.

Third, a week is probably too soon for the booster to be effective.. You should have gotten the booster one week earlier to make it work.

Maybe I should get a booster every month, week, day? Just to be safe, put a reminder in my phone every seven days or something?
 

ZiprHead

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The vaccine wasn't designed for omicron. It was designed for alpha. We got lucky in that it worked for delta too. I assume an omicron vax is already being developed.
 

Angra Mainyu

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TSwizzle said:
It's just a fact, eleven out of eleven got covid and they were all vaccinated. I don't need to consider millions of cases, just the eleven in my circle is enough for me.
Suppose you have 11/11, and then when you consider millions of cases, it turns out vaccination reduces infection by say 50% statistically. Then reckoning vaccines do not reduce infection is an epistemic error. The point is that the evidence from millions of cases swamps the 11 cases you considered.

TSwizzle said:
Nobody got really sick or required any medical attention.
Great! So, you could also reckon vaccines work, to go with your assessment based on 11 people (in reality, they do work, but the millions of cases against swamp the 11, so if you want to know how well they work, you should look at their numbers too).

TSwizzle said:
Maybe I should get a booster every month, week, day? Just to be safe, put a reminder in my phone every seven days or something?
The sarcasm here is out of place. The booster probably takes between one and two weeks to take effect, so it probably was too late. You could have found that out easily. And no, it's not that you would need one every seven days, that makes no sense. The booster didn't make it in time, but still now you probably got immunity for a few months because you got infected.
 

TSwizzle

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Suppose you have 11/11, and then when you consider millions of cases, it turns out vaccination reduces infection by say 50% statistically. Then reckoning vaccines do not reduce infection is an epistemic error. The point is that the evidence from millions of cases swamps the 11 cases you considered.

Dear oh dear. Look, I go by my experiences. 11 out of 11, that's 100%.

Great! So, you could also reckon vaccines work, to go with your assessment based on 11 people (in reality, they do work, but the millions of cases against swamp the 11, so if you want to know how well they work, you should look at their numbers too).

Do the vaccines really, really, really work? Well they are somewhat effective at keeping the symptoms mild for the first few months apparently. Then after a few months it starts to get a bit iffy. So now you need to get "vaccinated" once a week, once a month, once a quarter, who knows? There is no way to tell what the vaccine did (if anything) for me and the others in my circle. And now you tell me the booster did hee-haw.

The sarcasm here is out of place.

No it's not. Earlier I said I've been vaccinated against Polio once in my life (shingles too). I've had a covid "vaccine" three times in less than 12 months. That's not a vaccine, it's a quasi flu shot. Even then I only ever got the flu shot once a year!! I'm not going to start getting "vaccinated" willy nilly, you go right ahead if you like but I'm done.
 
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Don2 (Don1 Revised)

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TSwizzle said:
It's just a fact, eleven out of eleven got covid and they were all vaccinated. I don't need to consider millions of cases, just the eleven in my circle is enough for me.
Suppose you have 11/11, and then when you consider millions of cases, it turns out vaccination reduces infection by say 50% statistically. Then reckoning vaccines do not reduce infection is an epistemic error. The point is that the evidence from millions of cases swamps the 11 cases you considered.

I think there is an additional error here. Having 11 people living together, not masking, not quarantining dramatically increases exposure incidents when 1 household member is sick. There is something apples to oranges about that environment versus a study. If each person in the household has 1000 exposures to the sick one in that environment, I am not sure we should incorporate those 11 into a larger set at all. Maybe?? ...we could say the vax protects you 50% when you have an average number of exposures over 6 months...but there's probably also a distribution of viral load there, too, correlated to the 50%. Home environment with no masking, no quarantining, sharing considerable air will hit some threshold viral load with multiple exposures.

TSwizzle said:
Nobody got really sick or required any medical attention.
Great! So, you could also reckon vaccines work, to go with your assessment based on 11 people (in reality, they do work, but the millions of cases against swamp the 11, so if you want to know how well they work, you should look at their numbers too).

This is true.
 

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DR. OZ: He is the J. Edgar Hoover of public health. He's a petty tyrant that has had all kinds of interactions with the media and uses them as allies to shut down dissent and debate. It's shameful.



I'm calling Fauci out for a debate. I'm challenging. Just go head-to-head with me or anybody, frankly, on the merits of these arguments because it's indefensible. This is just gross incompetence. I mean borderline malpractice that we don't have solutions for Americans where their lives are being threatened. Older Americans were vulnerable by this virus, but the vast majority of people, of course, aren't, it's relatively benign. But older Americans are at risk if we cannot get them life-saving solutions that have been around for more than a year.

Full interview in the link.
 

Angra Mainyu

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TSwizzle said:
Dear oh dear. Look, I go by my experiences. 11 out of 11, that's 100%.
That is epistically incorrect, given the rest of the evidence available to you.

TSwizzle said:
Do the vaccines really, really, really work? Well they are somewhat effective at keeping the symptoms mild for the first few months apparently. Then after a few months it starts to get a bit iffy. So now you need to get "vaccinated" once a week, once a month, once a quarter, who knows? There is no way to tell what the vaccine did (if anything) for me and the others in my circle. And now you tell me the booster did hee-haw.
Well, you can take a look at the numbers. Vaccinated people are much less prone to serious illness and death, even without the boosters. But it is also true the boosters increase protection by a significant factor. Also, it's certain that once a week or month is no good. Once every four months is definitely an improvement over 6 since at 6 the effectiveness fell considerably, so definitely not as long as 6 months. I'm no expert, but I'd say with the current sort of vaccines, between 3 and 4 months would give a signficant improvement in immunity, which you ought to weigh against the side effects and other considerations.


TSwizzle said:
No it's not. Earlier I said I've been vaccinated against Polio once in my life (shingles too). I've had a covid "vaccine" three times in less than 12 months. That's not a vaccine, it's a quasi flu shot. Even then I only ever got the flu shot once a year!! I'm not going to start getting "vaccinated" willy nilly, you go right ahead if you like but I'm done.
The sarcasm is out of place because there is enough info to know that vaccines help considerably reduce the severity of illness. If you do not want to call them 'vaccines', regardless, call them 'things that you get via a shot, which generally have some annoying by minor side effects and reduce the chances of serious covid by a lot' or whatever (I think 'vaccine' is simpler, though, and it is a correct usage of the term in English).

It is true, though, that vaccines can be pretty annoying, so maybe 6 months would be good enough for you - after all, you already got covid before the booster could take effect, and didn't do much, so there is that.
 

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Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
I think there is an additional error here. Having 11 people living together, not masking, not quarantining dramatically increases exposure incidents when 1 household member is sick. There is something apples to oranges about that environment versus a study.
It is different in that regard too, yes, but if the only evidence were from those 11 people, that would support weakly the assessment that they do not reduce chances of infection. In any case, he has plenty more evidence.

I might however give another piece of anecdotal evidence: the father of a coworker got Omicron, but his mother (who is the father's wife and lives with him) did not get infected. Neither did two more people in the same household, all vaccinated, living together etc. So, TSwizzle's argumentation would support that vaccines prevent infection at a high rate. But that too would not be correct, due to the numbers vs. the numbers in the studies.
 

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So it has been almost three months since the science thread about covid in this board has had a post.

I think that early treatments and how doctors are being hamstrung from being able to prescribe some promising medications. I will totally leave ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine out of the discussion.

Should any doctor in the US be able to prescribe fluvoxamine (free of fear) for early treatment according to these general guidelines proposed in Ontario Province? (whatever about indigineous origin, not wanting a discussion about that)

https://covid19-sciencetable.ca/sci...hat-prescribers-and-pharmacists-need-to-know/

Screenshot from 2022-01-13 19-35-51.png

Does the U.S. doctor have to wait months or years to be able prescribe it? What happened to giving doctors a fairly wide latitude for off label use?

You want to save lives? Do this!

There are other knobs to turn other than vaccines, masks and brand new expensive medicines which do have their place for sure.
 

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Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
I think there is an additional error here. Having 11 people living together, not masking, not quarantining dramatically increases exposure incidents when 1 household member is sick. There is something apples to oranges about that environment versus a study.
It is different in that regard too, yes, but if the only evidence were from those 11 people, that would support weakly the assessment that they do not reduce chances of infection. In any case, he has plenty more evidence.

I might however give another piece of anecdotal evidence: the father of a coworker got Omicron, but his mother (who is the father's wife and lives with him) did not get infected. Neither did two more people in the same household, all vaccinated, living together etc. So, TSwizzle's argumentation would support that vaccines prevent infection at a high rate. But that too would not be correct, due to the numbers vs. the numbers in the studies.
TSwizzle's behavior is likely on the outskirts of others because he is very anti-mask. My point is just there are multiple variables feeding into predictive outcome of infection: exposure incidents, viral loads, date since full vax, etc etc, and his not masking and convincing family not to mask may play into the other variables there....leaving him to conclude the wrong variable is at fault. Other families in a household may be more regularly preventive and thus other variables at play. People who are ideological tend to base conclusions on a single variable that is a politically trending issue, but real life is not a controlled study.
 

blastula

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I don't know if this was already posted, but I did not see it.

QAnon Star Who Said Only ‘Idiots’ Get Vax Dies of COVID


In the face of these deaths, their surviving friends and supporters have started to allege that the dead QAnon figures are being murdered, either because they were refused internet folk remedies like ivermectin or hydroxychloroquine, or because they were killed by the deep-state to cover up their conspiracy theories. In December, Kuzma and a number of other conspiracy theorists were sickened with COVID-like symptoms after appearing together at a conference. Rather than acknowledge that they had COVID, the far-right influencers suggested they had been targeted by an anthrax attack.

After Weldon’s death, her QAnon allies threatened to pursue violent action against staff at the hospital where she died. Scott McKay, a QAnon personality known as the “Patriot Streetfighter,” said he would publicize the names of doctors and nurses involved in treating Weldon, saying he wanted to “put the fear into these medical professionals” in a Telegram post. McKay proposed the hospital staff be sentenced to death, or be murdered in vigilante violence.

“If it’s not done in a military tribunal then it’s going to be done in the street eventually and not to my wishes,” McKay wrote. “That’s my greatest fear. But if it’s necessary, it’s going to be necessary.”

Such sympathetic innocents.
 

repoman

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I wonder if rules like college students needing a booster of two year old version of the virus ten days after current omicron infection when there will be an omicron vaccine by March or April make people so pissed off at the system that they become like the QAnon cultists in the post above.

Boosters were only really touted in the first FDA panel discussions for 65+ and immune compromised and then it got rammed through later.

What juice is worth what squeeze for a freshly infected/recovered double vaxxed college student? Get a booster or fuck off? Is this reality?

What kind of over charged immune response will that student have?

Have you no sense of decency?
 

Loren Pechtel

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TSwizzle

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TSwizzle said:
Dear oh dear. Look, I go by my experiences. 11 out of 11, that's 100%.
That is epistically incorrect, given the rest of the evidence available to you.

Anyway you look at it, any evidence to consider still shows that vaccinated people can and do spread the virus. So the vaccine is a bit of a bust as far as “stopping the spread” is concerned. Therefore the vaccine mandates and passports are not warranted.

Well, you can take a look at the numbers. {snip}
I did and I’m well aware of the “vaccine” shortcomings.

And with that, I’m out.
 

Loren Pechtel

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How many people who’ve had the Polio vaccine got Polio? The Covid vaccines do not stop infection or transmission. But you’re probably still better off getting it. Everything else - the masks, social distancing, lockdowns- is just for show. Those have become pure partisan politics, as there’s no science those measures do much at all. Was in Florida recently, and the freedom was wonderful. The Branch Covidians hate that.

The vaccines pretty much prevent infection by the strain they were engineered for. They likely stop Delta, they might stop Omicron--but in both cases even if they don't stop it they make it much less severe.

And if all the rest of it is show why was there such a difference between red and blue areas in the time before Omicron?

And just because a vaccine isn't 100% doesn't make it useless. I started out looking up Cholera because I knew the vaccine wasn't 100%--it's about 90% but travelers to affected areas are still recommended to get it. In doing this I found some other info: Chicken pox is about 90%, and breakthrough infections are usually mild. We still require it. Measles, 97%. Mumps, 88%. Rubella, 97%.
 

Loren Pechtel

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How many people who’ve had the Polio vaccine got Polio?

And how regularly did one get vaccinated against Polio? I believe I have had one Polio vaccination in my life. I've had three covid vaccinations in less than 12 months. And I still got the effing covid.
Polio is a three shot series.
 

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Biden calls on employers to mandate vaccines despite Supreme Court ruling | TheHill

He isn't giving up.
President Biden on Thursday appealed to states and companies to require people to get vaccinated against the coronavirus despite the Supreme Court blocking his vaccine-or-test mandate for large employers.

...
“As a result of the Court’s decision, it is now up to States and individual employers to determine whether to make their workplaces as safe as possible for employees, and whether their businesses will be safe for consumers during this pandemic by requiring employees to take the simple and effective step of getting vaccinated,” the president said in a statement.

The president vowed to put pressure on companies to voluntarily create their own vaccine-or-test requirements.

He said the Supreme Court ruling “does not stop me from using my voice as President to advocate for employers to do the right thing to protect Americans’ health and economy.”

“I call on business leaders to immediately join those who have already stepped up – including one third of Fortune 100 companies – and institute vaccination requirements to protect their workers, customers, and communities,” Biden added in his statement.

He called the OSHA mandate a commonsense requirement and a "modest burden" on workers.

“I am disappointed that the Supreme Court has chosen to block common-sense life-saving requirements for employees at large businesses that were grounded squarely in both science and the law,” he said. “This emergency standard allowed employers to require vaccinations or to permit workers to refuse to be vaccinated, so long as they were tested once a week and wore a mask at work: a very modest burden.”
It's so much of a pleasure to read his statements. They are such a contrast with his predecessor -- he seems tons more mature.
 
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