Democrats 2020

[Elixir]

Right-wingers seem to enjoy snickering about how terrible AOC's working-class heritage is.

Pandering to the "working class" while deriding anyone who elevates him or herself out of it (esp if they don't pass the whitebread test) is part and parcel of the new alt-white "anti-elite elitism".

 

[lpetrich]

Ronaldo M on Twitter: "@kristoncapps @AOC @SenSanders @BernieSanders Haha... https://t.co/AMuv5YSUuy" / Twitter - "No Food, No Lights, No Motor Car, Not A Single Luxury. The New Green Deal."

Showing a screenshot from "Gilligan's Island" with BS as the Skipper and AOC as Gilligan.

Bernie Sanders on Twitter: ""Bernie Sanders is running on a Green New Deal platform that is honestly the Green New Deal of our dreams. It is by far and away the boldest plan of any of the candidates."
Thank you @NaomiAKlein for supporting our campaign. https://t.co/KhWv3Q7Jej" / Twitter

Bernie Sanders on Twitter: "“Now that I’m a member of Congress, I see and have experienced the immense amount of pressure there is to conform, and I frankly don’t know how Senator Sanders has remained this consistent for so long.” -Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez https://t.co/TLHyBaW0zD" / Twitter - AOC marveled at how BS has been able to continue so long without breaking under the strain.

Q: You're supporting the oldest candidate in the race. You're the youngest woman elected to Congress, and you've spoken out about the importance of supporting other women in elected offices. So what do you say to the voters who say, "So there's two progressives in the race. Why not support the female progressive candidate?"

AOC: It's not just what we're trying to accomplish, but how we're trying to accomplish it. And what we're going to have to do to win our future back, is to come together and transcend race, gender, class, come across lines of religion, not in ways that erase each other, but in ways that lift each other up and acknowledge each other's struggles. And for me, a former organizer for Senator Sanders in 2016, as someone who has been committed to issues of Medicare for All, I felt very personally tied to the fact that he had been fighting for me before I even, you know, came into politics, that when I was a little girl, he was fighting for justice on so many different fronts.

It's a very personal decision, and I think every person's vote in this country is an intensely personal decision where we talk about our stories and bring our whole selves to it, and I personally have admired the Senator's leadership, and now that I'm a member of Congress, I see and have experienced the immense amount of pressure there is to conform, and I frankly don't know how Senator Sanders has remained so consistent for so long. I really don't. And I think it takes an immense amount of moral fortitude, but also commitment to policy, and even just as a member of Congress, I can't imagine the pressure that there would be once someone enters the White House to conform, to be the unique, sole target of that much pressure, and I really admire the Senator's ability to do that and I believe that if there's a candidate that can deliver and remain committed to these issues, it's him.

I'm quoting that because AOC marvels at BS's ability to keep going in politics for as long as he has without compromising his beliefs or his activism.

 

[J842P]

Why is it so surprising that AOC would support the candidate who's policy positions most closely aligned with her own?

 

[lpetrich]

We’ve Got Some New Polls For Bloomberg’s Potential Campaign. They Aren’t Great. | FiveThirtyEight - I can't say that I feel very unhappy about that.

I like how AOC called BS Tío Bernie (Spanish) and Rashida Tlaib called him Amo Bernie (Arabic) - Uncle Bernie in both cases. Nothing from Ilhan Omar. I experimented with Google Translate and I came up with Adeer Bernie for Somali.

RT used the Arabic word for paternal uncle (father's brother).

For me, that would be Stric Bernie (Serbo-Croatian)

Let's see what they might call Elizabeth Warren.

AOC: Tía Elisa, RT: Ama Eliza, IO: Eedo Eliza

For me, that would be Strina Eliza

 

[southernhybrid]

Experts aren't impressed with Sanders green new deal!

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/14/climate/bernie-sanders-climate-change.html

Senator Bernie Sanders’s $16 trillion vision for arresting global warming would put the government in charge of the power sector and promise that, by 2030, the country’s electricity and transportation systems would run entirely on wind, solar, hydropower or geothermal energy, with the fossil fuel industry footing much of the bill much as Mexico was to pay for the border wall.

Climate scientists and energy economists say the plan is technically impractical, politically unfeasible, and possibly ineffective.

Yet the criticism does not appear to bother many of the young voters who will have an important role in selecting a Democratic presidential candidate, and who overwhelmingly place climate change at the top of their priority lists, according to polls.

His rejection of nuclear energy and technology to capture carbon emissions would make his carbon-reduction targets much harder. His notion of paying for renewable energy by “making the fossil fuel industry pay for their pollution” is vague. And, economists said, his climate plan fails to consider his larger agenda, such as the new infrastructure projects in his economic plan that would create a burst of new emissions. High-speed rail, wind turbines and mass transit need steel and concrete, the production of which requires energy.

“He’s trying to set a marker in terms of the pace and scale of spending that he’s proposing,” said Jesse Jenkins, an energy systems engineer and assistant professor at Princeton University. But, he added, “I don’t think that represents a very nuanced understanding of the set of challenges that we face.”

I always put climate change at the top of the list too, but I'd prefer a realistic plan, not one that's been developed by someone who isn't an expert with a scientific background.

 

[Derec]

She lacks the qualification of agreeing with your alt-rightism?

I am not "alt-right" so try again.

And therefore lacks the qualifications necessary to serve in a hypothetical Sanders administration????

It's not about her agreeing with me or not. It's about her not having any sort of qualifications of experience for a position in a presidential administration.

I guess we all know why you are not instead whining about actual existential threats like Jared and Ivanka's qualifications to advise and steer US foreign policy...

If Trump jumped off the Empire State Building, should a hypothetical President Bernie do likewise?

But in any case, Jared and Ivanka both did a bit more before entering politics than just tend bar.

 

[Derec]

Right-wingers seem to enjoy snickering about how terrible AOC's working-class heritage is.

I am not a "right winger" and it's not about her "working-class heritage" but that she, after graduating from a fancy private college, did not get a real job but tended bar instead. Then she basically fell ass-backwards into the Congress seat and got a big head over it.

This makes me concerned about his stamina, whether he has enough to be a good president.

I think he most certainly does not. Which is just as well, as 2020 Bernie is just a shadow of his 2016 self. The most good he can do is split the far-left vote and prevent a Warren coronation, so I hope he stays in until the end, stamina or not.

And speaking of "working class", she (and BS) pretend to be for the working class, but she drove thousands of miles to protest an oil pipeline whose construction provided a lot of working-class jobs. Not to mention that the rich can afford more expensive oil sans fracking much easier than working class people. So much for her "working class heritage".
And mind you, she drove a gasoline car long distance to protest oil.

 

[Derec]

Ronaldo M on Twitter: "@kristoncapps @AOC @SenSanders @BernieSanders Haha... https://t.co/AMuv5YSUuy" / Twitter - "No Food, No Lights, No Motor Car, Not A Single Luxury. The New Green Deal."

Showing a screenshot from "Gilligan's Island" with BS as the Skipper and AOC as Gilligan.

Funny because it's true! Even though he is mixing "Amish Paradise" with "Gilligan's Island" and really should have used Ginger or Mary Ann for barkeep Sandy.

 

[Derec]

I always put climate change at the top of the list too, but I'd prefer a realistic plan, not one that's been developed by someone who isn't an expert with a scientific background.

Agreed. Nuclear power rejection is counterproductive as renewables are intermittent, location-dependent and low-density.
On the other hand, nuclear power is high-density, always on and very low carbon.

It is also very safe even accounting for Chernobyl.

 

[lpetrich]

Why is it so surprising that AOC would support the candidate who's policy positions most closely aligned with her own?

I find it interesting what she said about him, that she marveled at how he could keep going with his progressive platform over so long a time in Congress.

Also,

‘No discipline. No plan. No strategy.’: Kamala Harris campaign in meltdown - POLITICO - "Campaign manager Juan Rodriguez is taking the most heat for the failings, but his defenders point their finger at the candidate's sister, Maya Harris."

“It’s a campaign of id,” said one senior Harris official, laying much of the blame on Rodriguez, but also pointing to a leaderless structure at the top that’s been allowed to flail without accountability. “What feels right, what impulse you have right now, what emotion, what frustration,” the official added. The person described the current state of the campaign in blunt terms: “No discipline. No plan. No strategy.”

...
The internal strife is the latest discouraging development for Harris’ once-encouraging candidacy. She has slid into low single digits and is now banking on a top-tier performance in Iowa to pull her back into contention. Inside the campaign, which had already experienced staff shakeups before the layoffs, rank and file aides are fed up with the weak leadership and uncertainty around internal communication, planning and executing on a clear vision. They say the constant shifting has eroded trust in the upper ranks.

With that sort of turmoil, with KH's campaign last until the Iowa caucuses?

 

[Derec]

With that sort of turmoil, with KH's campaign last until the Iowa caucuses?

Possibly not, but expect a Hail Mary from her come the Atlanta debate.

Would she be a good running mate for Biden though? Without the "I was that little girl" busing debacle, I would have said definitely. Now that well might be poisoned, but you never know. Reagan took George Herbert Walker "Voodoo Economics" Bush as a running mate after all.

 

[lpetrich]

Bernie Sanders on Twitter: "No one should struggle to pay bills because they got in an accident.
No one should sell their house because they got cancer.
No one with chronic illness should be in debt their whole life.
We're going to eliminate all past-due medical debt and guarantee health care to all." / Twitter

Bernie Sanders on Twitter: "“It’s time that we become the party of FDR again.
It’s time for us to become the party of the Civil Rights Act again.
It’s time for us to become the party that fights for queer liberation again, the anti-war party, a party that establishes peace and prosperity.” -@AOC https://t.co/8APqzdFiNV" / Twitter

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "I want to be the party of the New Deal again.
The party of the Civil Rights Act,
the one that electrified this nation and fights for all people.
For that, many would call us radical.
But we aren’t “pushing the party left,”
we are bringing the party home. https://t.co/wLeDaxCHkZ" / Twitter

Instead of the party of helpless hand-wringing, the party of "we can't do that".

 

[blastula]

Buttigieg is leading the latest IA poll. Good, just in time for the next debate and for his time in the barrel.

Oh and the Dem Governor Edwards won reelection in LA.

 

[Politesse]

Boomer is a mindset.

Pray tell. What is the mindset? Those of us who were radical leftists when we were young boomers also had a stupid expression that we often used, "Never trust anyone over 30." And, those of us who were radical leftists during our youths, mostly came down to earth and realized that we can't always have everything we want. We need to take what others want into consideration. Boomers were always an extremely diverse generation when it came to politics etc. and we still are that way. We're just older and wiser now and understand the art of compromise is what is most important if you want to make progress. We also worry because the country has moved much further to the right than it was when we watched our liberal hero lose in a landslide in 1972. I would hate to see that happen again.

I never thought I'd see the day when my country moved as far to the right as it is these days. And, many of the alt right are far younger than boomers. Many of them are younger than 30. Maybe now we boomers should have a motto, "never trust anyone under thirty".

So, younger people can use their silly OK boomer meme all they want. It makes me laugh. In fact, I've been using it on my husband all week, whenever he says something that I don't like. And, while I generally don't make fun of any generation, I did get a laugh out of a comment that Bill Maher made on his last show. "Millennials think that boomers destroyed the world and they can save it by looking at their phones." So, other than posting online, and telling the rest of us how wrong we are, what has the younger generation actually done to make the world a better place? We marched every weekend. We never stopped. I don't see that type of activism coming form the younger generations. It takes work to make change. Complaining about the older generations doesn't do a thing, but cause division. And, generations don't realize what harm they may be doing as they grow older. Hindsight is always 2020.

Can you come to terms with the fact that each generation is influenced by the things that happen during their early lifetimes? My generation grew up during the constant threat of nuclear war, the constant fear that you or your friends would be sent to a horrible war that killed about 58,000 of your peers, the civil rights movement etc. My parents' generation was influenced by the Great Depression, and WWII. Many of us had fathers who were often badly damaged from fighting in that war. We were told by our frugal parents that we deserved better than them, and some of us took that too literally. We were also told that we may never reach adulthood and would all be wiped out by nuclear war. Do you think the person who first developed a nuclear weapon had any idea what problems it would cause? Do you think the people who promoted the use of plastics had a clue as to how much damage their product would cause? Anyway, hopefully you get the picture. We are all products of the environments that influenced us as well as the genetics that made us who we are. It's insane to judge or criticize any generation of people as all generations are made up of individuals who follow different drumbeats.

But, when it comes to wisdom, you have to have gathered many years of experience before it takes hold. And, some people never learn from their experiences, and never come to terms with the fact that you can't always get what you want. Trump and Bernie are two examples of that mindset. One promised his supporters to build a wall that would be paid for by Mexico, and create a great health care plan. The other one promises free healthcare for all, paid for the government etc.. Ain't gonna happen and might give us another Trump term. I'm not against it in principle, but there are other ways of achieving UHC that are more realistic, and might even have a chance of happening.

I'm curious: who would you now trust, that you didn't in 1972? Who was over thirty at that time? Personally, I'm incredibly grateful to my parents and others of their generation for getting as many Cold War fomenting scumbags out as they possibly could, and getting us out of the foreign war adventurism business for the brief span of time in which I was allowed to grow up before that same generation inexplicably plunged us back into a series of endless, pointless wars against undefeatably abstract foes. If no one had said "no" to the old guard of that time, we'd all be piles of glowing dust by now. The "old" will always demand compromises, and they will usually get them in the end. But they should never go unchallenged. I am over thirty, and it would never cross my mind to demand that my students take my word for anything. Their brains are sharp as they will ever be, and they should use them. When I am seventy, or a hundred-and-twenty, I hope I'll say exactly the same.

 

[Copernicus]

Boomer is a mindset.

Pray tell. What is the mindset? Those of us who were radical leftists when we were young boomers also had a stupid expression that we often used, "Never trust anyone over 30." And, those of us who were radical leftists during our youths, mostly came down to earth and realized that we can't always have everything we want. We need to take what others want into consideration. Boomers were always an extremely diverse generation when it came to politics etc. and we still are that way. We're just older and wiser now and understand the art of compromise is what is most important if you want to make progress. We also worry because the country has moved much further to the right than it was when we watched our liberal hero lose in a landslide in 1972. I would hate to see that happen again.

I never thought I'd see the day when my country moved as far to the right as it is these days. And, many of the alt right are far younger than boomers. Many of them are younger than 30. Maybe now we boomers should have a motto, "never trust anyone under thirty".

So, younger people can use their silly OK boomer meme all they want. It makes me laugh. In fact, I've been using it on my husband all week, whenever he says something that I don't like. And, while I generally don't make fun of any generation, I did get a laugh out of a comment that Bill Maher made on his last show. "Millennials think that boomers destroyed the world and they can save it by looking at their phones." So, other than posting online, and telling the rest of us how wrong we are, what has the younger generation actually done to make the world a better place? We marched every weekend. We never stopped. I don't see that type of activism coming form the younger generations. It takes work to make change. Complaining about the older generations doesn't do a thing, but cause division. And, generations don't realize what harm they may be doing as they grow older. Hindsight is always 2020.

Can you come to terms with the fact that each generation is influenced by the things that happen during their early lifetimes? My generation grew up during the constant threat of nuclear war, the constant fear that you or your friends would be sent to a horrible war that killed about 58,000 of your peers, the civil rights movement etc. My parents' generation was influenced by the Great Depression, and WWII. Many of us had fathers who were often badly damaged from fighting in that war. We were told by our frugal parents that we deserved better than them, and some of us took that too literally. We were also told that we may never reach adulthood and would all be wiped out by nuclear war. Do you think the person who first developed a nuclear weapon had any idea what problems it would cause? Do you think the people who promoted the use of plastics had a clue as to how much damage their product would cause? Anyway, hopefully you get the picture. We are all products of the environments that influenced us as well as the genetics that made us who we are. It's insane to judge or criticize any generation of people as all generations are made up of individuals who follow different drumbeats.

But, when it comes to wisdom, you have to have gathered many years of experience before it takes hold. And, some people never learn from their experiences, and never come to terms with the fact that you can't always get what you want. Trump and Bernie are two examples of that mindset. One promised his supporters to build a wall that would be paid for by Mexico, and create a great health care plan. The other one promises free healthcare for all, paid for the government etc.. Ain't gonna happen and might give us another Trump term. I'm not against it in principle, but there are other ways of achieving UHC that are more realistic, and might even have a chance of happening.

I've always felt that the greatest failing of the Boomer generation is that they were just awful at parenting, as evidenced by the quality of the generation that followed. And their bad parenting habits were apparently passed on to succeeding generations. It really makes you wonder whether their parents were overrated.

 

[angelo]

Friday is last day to file for the NH primary, so whoever wants to run better get in there. Bloomberg says he's not filing in NH and may focus on Super Tuesday. Good luck with that, very smart, not deluded Republican guy running for Dem nom.

Other late entries being discussed are Sherrod Brown, Eric Holder and Deval Patrick. Patrick seems most likely of them, and he could makes things interesting.

But he needs to hurry. Two (southern) states already passed the filing deadline for the general. Definitely have to make it by 12/2 for IL.

State and federal candidate filing deadlines for 2020 - Ballotpedia

They have better hurry up lest they miss the clown bus!

 

[TV and credit cards]

Experienced Senator Harris may not be able to run an effective presidential campaign but a Mayor from Podunk, IN is doing a pretty good job of it, ain't he?

Well, big tests are coming. He just might be a point of interest in the upcoming debate. Pete's going to have to show he is the smartest guy in the room. It's going to be awhile before MSNBC warms up to him. For all his youth, education, national service and gayness, he's still that white guy that dresses like a Republican.

The Atlantic Article

Most Sanders backers, though, tended to feel the opposite: Buttigieg, they told me—with his elite education, his moderate policy positions, and his appeals to Donald Trump–wary Republicans—represents everything that’s wrong with the current Democratic Party.

Since when did an elite education become a negative? Oh yeah, when Trump was elected. A divisive us versus them campaign does get people riled up. But instead of bringing people together for a common cause and minimizing the radical fringes, it causes swings in the political landscape where no one president can hope to get anything done for more than the first two years of their presidency. So, yeah, keep shitting on those you disagree with.

Nationally, roughly 14 percent of Warren supporters have said that Buttigieg is their second-favorite primary candidate, according to the most recent data from Morning Consult. But only about 3 percent of Sanders backers said the same.

Interesting. Instead of focusing on the other centrists support, Pete appeals to educated Warren progressives. Kind of a dis on Uncle Joe. If he can take down Elizabeth, that's national recognition.
And do Sander supporters even have a second-favorite? Who would they want for a running-mate: Bernie/Bernie 2020.

Sanders supporters I interviewed pointed to Buttigieg’s numerous donations from Silicon Valley executives

Well, he wants to make Washington DC as attractive a place to work as Silicon Valley for the high tech industry so maybe they see contracts. Washington DC could do with an update.

Looking even further ahead, if Buttigieg goes on to win the Democratic nomination, Sanders voters may be least likely to fall in line behind him.

Maybe if Bernie supports the Dem nominee with a sense of urgency this time we'll see less of them sitting out or worse doing stupid shit like voting Trump just because he promised to back out of the TPP.

Is it the party of Rhodes Scholars and Harvard professors, or of bartenders and blue-collar workers? Can it be both?

 

[southernhybrid]

I'm curious: who would you now trust, that you didn't in 1972? Who was over thirty at that time?

I have no idea. It was just an expression like OK Boomer is now. I think it may have been do to the Viet Nam War. Most people who weren't draft age supported the war, so that may be where the expression came from. I don't think it's unusual for younger people to criticize their parents generation. I remember my father telling me after the war was over, that my generation did the right thing by protesting the war. But, it wasn't even all boomers who protested. There were some who thought we were very unAmerican and had no right to be against the war. Each generation is made up of individuals, with different ideas and ideologies. I'm sure you know that.

I had a high school algebra teacher that used to literally taunt the boys in my class by telling them soon they'd be headed for Viet Nam. Then he'd roar with laughter. Okay. He was a real jerk, but it was type of attitude that probably made a lot of young boomers feel turned off by the older generations.

 

[Rhea]

Maybe if Bernie supports the Dem nominee with a sense of urgency this time we'll see less of them sitting out or worse doing stupid shit like voting Trump just because he promised to back out of the TPP.

Indeed. I feel like he could have made a big difference and he chose not to because his response was tepid. He let down a LOT of us who were for him until he decided to take his ball and go home and we could not longer support his approach.

 

[ZiprHead]

Buttigieg is leading the latest IA poll. Good, just in time for the next debate and for his time in the barrel.

Oh and the Dem Governor Edwards won reelection in LA.

Iowa is a very conservative state. I wonder if this is some of republican fuckery that I spoke of earlier.