DeSantis Flies Immigrants to Martha Vineyard

[Jarhyn]

This is the point where if Atrib is wise, they will point out exactly what Derec did say, and the synonyms for those words, and the location of a place so referenced, so as to make it very clear Derec did in fact make a statement about sending folks to Africa.

 

[Elixir]

This is the point where if Atrib is wise, they will point out exactly what Derec did say, and the synonyms for those words, and the location of a place so referenced, so as to make it very clear Derec did in fact make a statement about sending folks to Africa.

Sounds like a lot of work for little reward.
Derec’s position needs no reaffirming.

 

[Jarhyn]

This is the point where if Atrib is wise, they will point out exactly what Derec did say, and the synonyms for those words, and the location of a place so referenced, so as to make it very clear Derec did in fact make a statement about sending folks to Africa.

Sounds like a lot of work for little reward.
Derec’s position needs no reaffirming.

My point is that @atrib used a phrase that creates a slight hyperbole (Rwanda is in Africa, but Africa being the parent object in which Rwanda is a part makes it seem large), Bomb is shamefully claiming that the hyperbole is somehow wholely invalid as a description.

Bomb went on a whole rant about it.

The phrase "Penny Wise, Pound Foolish" seems to describe it.

 

[southernhybrid]

The Democratic mayor of El Paso, Texas is also planning on sending migrants to other cities, but his plan does sound more humane. I do wish the federal government would at least discuss some reasonable options with the border states. While I think what DeSantis and Abbot did was wrong, I think the rest of the country does need to take more responsibility in helping settle the migrants while they wait to seek asylum.

https://www.newsweek.com/texas-democrat-mayor-defends-busing-migrants-out-state-we-help-them-1744010

Leeser said Sunday how his city's plan to transport migrants to other cities differs from the program that is currently being enacted by Texas Governor Greg Abbott, saying that El Paso has been working to find out where each migrant is looking to go and arranging transportation there on buses with sufficient amenities, like food.

I'm tired of the two sides childishly slamming each other, instead of working together to try and solve problems. I'm not optimistic that will happen, but the current divisiveness going on in the country isn't helping anyone. I want lots of immigrants to become a part of the country. They usually appreciate the things that most Americans take for granted. They work hard and many open small businesses, an important part of our economy.

I just wish the process was better. I don't understand the hate and resentfulness toward immigrants, but I know it's been going on since the country was formed. Tribalism is what's damaging our democracy in so many ways.

 

[Elixir]

Tribalism is what's damaging our democracy in so many ways.

America was largely its own tribe, post WWII. Since then, xenophobic weenies have splintered off into their own tribe. Now, the Party of the Easily Terrified has congealed into a Trumpsucking mass of anti-democratic sheeples, bent on destroying everything that ever united us.
I think Liz Cheney is more clear-eyed about this than most democrats.

 

[southernhybrid]

Tribalism is what's damaging our democracy in so many ways.

America was largely its own tribe, post WWII. Since then, xenophobic weenies have splintered off into their own tribe. Now, the Party of the Easily Terrified has congealed into a Trumpsucking mass of anti-democratic sheeples, bent on destroying everything that ever united us.
I think Liz Cheney is more clear-eyed about this than most democrats.

I agree to some extent, but I doubt that many Black folks who lived in the South post WWII would agree with that. I never lived in the South as a child, but I did visit it once with my parents during the days of Jim Crow. I still remember seeing the water fountains marked, "White only" and "Black only".

The North where I grew up was extremely segregated. My huge high school only had about 10 or 20 Black students. Some of my immigrant neighbors stayed with their own tribes for the most part, so I'm not sure we were ever one big tribe.

Ironically, it's the urban, suburban and to some extent even the rural South that are now mostly integrated while the Northeast remains highly segregated. Even those well meaning liberals in the Northeast mostly live in segregated neighborhoods. My sister's town doesn't have a single Black person in it, while my town is about 50/50 Black/White, and my neighborhood gets more racially integrated year by year. That's a big change since 25 years ago. People who don't live here have some antiquated ideas about the South. Sadly, too many young and middle aged Black folks don't bother to vote. I sure hope they vote in the midterms, along with most other younger voters, since they are about 75% Dems. If the Dems lose Congress, we are truly fucked.

 

[Elixir]

I agree to some extent, but I doubt that many Black folks who lived in the South post WWII would agree with that.

I doubt many black folk would agree, period. But I stand by it in light of what's going on in this Country today.
From kindergarten to grade five, I went to a public school in Easton CT. Nary a black, Asian or Hispanic student to be seen, as far as I recall.
After my dad died, my Mom moved us to Wayne PA because the public school system was rated the best in the Country. It was at least 25% black with some Asian and Hispanic representation as well. But it was still segregated. in the sense that there was little interaction between the cliques of white and black people, except in the limited contexts of sports. Nonetheless, there remained a sense of commonality, weak though it was, based on a shared ideal of equality. The "divide" between black and white was then less pronounced than the divide between rational people and MAGAts today.

 

[southernhybrid]

I agree to some extent, but I doubt that many Black folks who lived in the South post WWII would agree with that.

I doubt many black folk would agree, period. But I stand by it in light of what's going on in this Country today.
From kindergarten to grade five, I went to a public school in Easton CT. Nary a black, Asian or Hispanic student to be seen, as far as I recall.
After my dad died, my Mom moved us to Wayne PA because the public school system was rated the best in the Country. It was at least 25% black with some Asian and Hispanic representation as well. But it was still segregated. in the sense that there was little interaction between the cliques of white and black people, except in the limited contexts of sports. Nonetheless, there remained a sense of commonality, weak though it was, based on a shared ideal of equality. The "divide" between black and white was then less pronounced than the divide between rational people and MAGAts today.

It sounds as if you've moved around even more than I have. I'm very surprised that Wayne PA was that racially integrated. I guess New Jersey must be the most racist state in the country, outside of Mississippi. I get what you're saying though. I do agree that nothing in our life time, on a national level has been as awful, since the MAGA's gained so much influence. I've never known a politician that claimed that the Christian religion should be running the country! Now, we're starting to hear quite a few MAGA politicians make this claim. It is very disturbing.

I thought it was bad during Viet Nam when we liberal college students marched against the war while being shouted at by the more conservative, "business majors", as we referred to them back in the day. We thought we were headed for peace, love and happiness! We were children of the civil rights movement who grew up being influenced by MLK, believing that Black and White unite via "A Little Bit of Love", ( another soul tune that I love ) Who knew how stupid and naive we idealistic kids were back in the day?

 

[Jarhyn]

I agree to some extent, but I doubt that many Black folks who lived in the South post WWII would agree with that.

I doubt many black folk would agree, period. But I stand by it in light of what's going on in this Country today.
From kindergarten to grade five, I went to a public school in Easton CT. Nary a black, Asian or Hispanic student to be seen, as far as I recall.
After my dad died, my Mom moved us to Wayne PA because the public school system was rated the best in the Country. It was at least 25% black with some Asian and Hispanic representation as well. But it was still segregated. in the sense that there was little interaction between the cliques of white and black people, except in the limited contexts of sports. Nonetheless, there remained a sense of commonality, weak though it was, based on a shared ideal of equality. The "divide" between black and white was then less pronounced than the divide between rational people and MAGAts today.

It sounds as if you've moved around even more than I have. I'm very surprised that Wayne PA was that racially integrated. I guess New Jersey must be the most racist state in the country, outside of Mississippi. I get what you're saying though. I do agree that nothing in our life time, on a national level has been as awful, since the MAGA's gained so much influence. I've never known a politician that claimed that the Christian religion should be running the country! Now, we're starting to hear quite a few MAGA politicians make this claim. It is very disturbing.

I thought it was bad during Viet Nam when we liberal college students marched against the war while being shouted at by the more conservative, "business majors", as we referred to them back in the day. We thought we were headed for peace, love and happiness! We were children of the civil rights movement who grew up being influenced by MLK, believing that Black and White unite via "A Little Bit of Love", ( another soul tune that I love ) Who knew how stupid and naive we idealistic kids were back in the day?

The point is remain "idealistic", being as "stupid" as that requires, without being quite so naive at any later attempt, assuming you get one.

 

[southernhybrid]

I agree to some extent, but I doubt that many Black folks who lived in the South post WWII would agree with that.

I doubt many black folk would agree, period. But I stand by it in light of what's going on in this Country today.
From kindergarten to grade five, I went to a public school in Easton CT. Nary a black, Asian or Hispanic student to be seen, as far as I recall.
After my dad died, my Mom moved us to Wayne PA because the public school system was rated the best in the Country. It was at least 25% black with some Asian and Hispanic representation as well. But it was still segregated. in the sense that there was little interaction between the cliques of white and black people, except in the limited contexts of sports. Nonetheless, there remained a sense of commonality, weak though it was, based on a shared ideal of equality. The "divide" between black and white was then less pronounced than the divide between rational people and MAGAts today.

It sounds as if you've moved around even more than I have. I'm very surprised that Wayne PA was that racially integrated. I guess New Jersey must be the most racist state in the country, outside of Mississippi. I get what you're saying though. I do agree that nothing in our life time, on a national level has been as awful, since the MAGA's gained so much influence. I've never known a politician that claimed that the Christian religion should be running the country! Now, we're starting to hear quite a few MAGA politicians make this claim. It is very disturbing.

I thought it was bad during Viet Nam when we liberal college students marched against the war while being shouted at by the more conservative, "business majors", as we referred to them back in the day. We thought we were headed for peace, love and happiness! We were children of the civil rights movement who grew up being influenced by MLK, believing that Black and White unite via "A Little Bit of Love", ( another soul tune that I love ) Who knew how stupid and naive we idealistic kids were back in the day?

The point is remain "idealistic", being as "stupid" as that requires, without being quite so naive at any later attempt, assuming you get one.

I will certainly try to remain. optimistic that the MAGA cult will eventually end and we will never be forced into a theocracy. I've wondered if part of the Christian Right's insanity is a reaction to the rise of the "nones". Do they find it scary that non religious people's numbers have been rising exponentially, despite the fact that most of us have nothing against anyone's right to practice their religions, as long as they don't use them to harm others, tell others how to live or discriminate against minorities, including those who are part of the LBGTQ etc. communities?

It's not necessary to understand all of the intricacies of what makes someone transgender, or non-binary etc. to accept that they have the same rights as any other American. There is no reason to hate and discriminate against those who are different from yourself. I am hoping that things become better for all minorities.

I told a Black, liberal Christian friend of mine last week, that we atheists as well as none religious people are increasing in numbers. She was both shocked and a bit worried, despite knowing I'm an atheist. But, I reassured her that most of us were decent, caring people, and most of us vote for Democrats. That seemed to help. We both agreed that character is far more important than what one believes when it comes to the supernatural. I wish all Christians accepted that and I wish that Christians would follow the teachings of their good book and welcome the stranger, help the poor and not be judgmental. That's pretty idealistic, no?

My favorite Bible verse has always been: Judge not that. ye be not judged", regardless if it's meant the way I interpret it or not. I do my best not to judge because I believe we are all victims or benefactors of our genetics and environmental. influences. I even know some Trump supporters who are otherwise wonderful, caring people. Maybe there is hope, if we can help them realize they were duped by a man who appears to be a mentally ill narcissistic psychopath. I'm getting carried away, so I'll stop.

 

[Elixir]

My favorite Bible verse has always been: Judge not that. ye be not judged

I like “it came to pass”.

 

[marc]

My favorite Bible verse has always been: Judge not that. ye be not judged

I like “it came to pass”.

You been listening to AronRa's reading of the Book of Mormon?

For everyone who has no idea what I'm referring to: Aron Ra, a big atheist speaker, has been doing a series where he and some ex-mormons read the book of mormon. "It came to pass" was used so often they started using a counter in at least one of the episodes.

 

[Swammerdami]

First of all, the migrants DeSantis sent to Martha's Vineyard aren't illegals. They followed proper channels when they reported to the nearest immigration office upon entry to this country and requested legal immigration status, something they were granted on a temporary basis while their applications are being processed.

If they had been illegals the the laws against human trafficking would definitely apply. Since they are migrants who were deliberately misled for political gain, the laws against kidnapping apply while the human trafficking laws might not. Either way, there is convincing evidence De Santis knowingly and deliberately committed a crime. I hope the rule of law is upheld and De Santis will be arrested and prosecuted.

The residents of Martha's Vineyard provided food, shelter, help with legal matters, etc. to the needy on extremely short notice. They should be lauded, especially by those who call themselves Christians, but probably won't be by anyone who would vote for De Santis.

"WE LOVE YOU, YOU’VE ENRICHED OUR LIVES, NOW GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE!" ...citizens of Martha's Vineyard

What a nasty fantasy. That might be how some on this forum would react, but clearly it is not what happened on Martha's Vineyard.

The migrants were provided with food, shelter, and access to legal assistance as soon as the locals understood the need to provide those things. The State and the Feds then stepped in to undo as much of DeSantis' fuckery as they could, which included moving the migrants to a place where they could live close to an immigration center while their applications are processed (as they are required to do) and their legal options are explored. It was both legally appropriate and personally helpful to them, unlike how they were treated by Abbot and DeSantis.

I have to ask - what do you think Martha's Vineyard is, a gated community of mansions with rich people strolling around in ascots and mink coats, spitting on poor people? Or is this fantasy of yours based on the notion that liberals don't really mean it when they talk about treating people with respect and not just fucking them over for fun and profit?

Don't overthink RVonse's ignorance or confusion. Like Pavlov's dog trained to salivate when hearing a bell, RVonse needs to reject any kindness by a liberal. If a liberal helps an old woman to her feet, RVonse will say the liberal just hopes the woman is an "illegal" who will now cast an illegal vote against Trump in gratitude. The "conservative" who kicked her to the ground should be applauded for helping her learn self-reliance.

Similarly, don't try to second-guess the whinings of Pavlov's dog — Just worry whether you need rabies shots!


If you MUST try to understand RVonse's "thought" processes, just remember that Ron DeSantis is probably one of his heroes:

Migrants said they were booked on a canceled DeSantis flight to Delaware, undercutting his claim that it was a prank

A group of six Venezuelan asylum seekers staying in San Antonio, Texas, told The Herald they had agreed to board a flight to Delaware early on Tuesday, September 20.

They said they were told by a woman that there were better job opportunities there, a story similar to that told by a group of 48 migrants flow to Martha's Vineyard, Massachusetts, under apparently false pretenses.

They were put up in a hotel for the night but right before they were to head to the airport they were told the flight was cancelled.

Apparently we're supposed to believe DeSantis is paying for hotel rooms in Texas and for planes to fly empty from San Antonio to the East Coast in order to "punk" the media.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

They (alt-right, fascists) like to call liberal compassion “virtue signalling”. Yeah, the right-wing managed to spin selfless compassion into an insult.

 

[ZiprHead]

A quote seen elsewhere:
"If you've built a personality around gleefully “offending liberals,” here's what you need to know: we aren't offended. You haven't hurt our feelings or made us cry. You sound like children to us, and we're sick of responding over and over to your infuriatingly stupid talking points, but we keep doing it because people's lives might literally be at stake if the wrong kind of idiocy is allowed to spread too far. You're not erudite debaters “owning the libs.” You're the rotten annoying little kids kicking the backs of our seats."

 

[Oleg]

A quote seen elsewhere:
"If you've built a personality around gleefully “offending liberals,” here's what you need to know: we aren't offended. You haven't hurt our feelings or made us cry. You sound like children to us, and we're sick of responding over and over to your infuriatingly stupid talking points, but we keep doing it because people's lives might literally be at stake if the wrong kind of idiocy is allowed to spread too far. You're not erudite debaters “owning the libs.” You're the rotten annoying little kids kicking the backs of our seats."

View attachment 40467

 

[Elixir]

Is it non- sequitur day again?

 

[bilby]

Is it non- sequitur day again?

The capital of Burkina Faso is Ouagadougou.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Immigration is only a problem for republican's (AKA the white party) because Hispanics are the majority of immigrants and most Hispanics vote democrat. Since the Republican (white) party can't get black folks to love them again after being infiltrated some time ago by fascists, the next option is to stop dem darn Hispanics from coming to "their" country.

Hey.

We're not monolithic.

I know Democrats view all minorities as having a hive mind, and all think and vote the same way. It isn't true.

That's why we have both AOC and Mayra Flores.

Knock off the "they are all the same" Democrat Racist Bullcrap.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

That is not the root cause. The root cause is that life in the USA is much better and/or safer than it is in the countries of the immigrants.

Racist Capitalist Cis-Hetero Normative Patriarchal USA is better than the socialist utopias they are fleeing?