Drag Shows

[ZiprHead]

And exposure to violence is much worse for impressionable younguns.

Professional wrestling. Every issue is resolved with ott violence and kids are welcomed to it.

 

[Gospel]

And exposure to violence is much worse for impressionable younguns.

Professional wrestling. Every issue is resolved with ott violence and kids are welcomed to it.

Yeah, the goal of grown men in spandex (or nylon) grappling one another is not to sexualize anyone but to lay the smacketh downeth. Sure it can be interpreted as such by those with a creative enough imagination. Maybe it's all in Republican heads? I mean it's not like they've provided any context other than an ensemble to support claims.

 

[Toni]

And exposure to violence is much worse for impressionable younguns.

Professional wrestling. Every issue is resolved with ott violence and kids are welcomed to it.

Yeah but that involves (pretend?) violence and so that's ok.

 

[Jarhyn]

And exposure to violence is much worse for impressionable younguns.

Professional wrestling. Every issue is resolved with ott violence and kids are welcomed to it.

Professional wrestling was one of the banes of my childhood.

It was never fun or interesting to me, not until I got to an age where my peers universally recognized the fakeness.

Now, it's just another soap opera.

 

[Toni]

And exposure to violence is much worse for impressionable younguns.

Professional wrestling. Every issue is resolved with ott violence and kids are welcomed to it.

Professional wrestling was one of the banes of my childhood.

It was never fun or interesting to me, not until I got to an age where my peers universally recognized the fakeness.

Now, it's just another soap opera.

True story: my grandmother was a huge fan of both roller derby and 'professional' wrestling, so as a child, I saw some of it on the television when we went to visit on Sunday afternoons. Still cracks me up that Grandma loved that stuff. BTW, this was old school pro wrestling, with Dick the Bruiser....

And yes, it was always a soap opera. I can't tell you a think about him but I remember being a fan of Dick the Bruiser when I was a little kid.

 

[Toni]

I was raised by white conservatives Christians in an all white neighborhood in NJ, just outside of New York City. I never knew a Black person until I met a few Black girls in high school. Back in those days, gay people were in the closet and we never knew about things like trans folks or drag queens etc. Things are a lot different now, and children should be taught to be tolerant and kind to everyone regardless of race, beliefs, or sexual orientation etc.

Exactly this^^^^

I grew up in a "diversity free" world. It was a loving and secure world, I wish all kids had parents and family as solid as mine.

But I had to learn that people aren't all the same on my own. I had to learn to value and respect human diversity on my own as an adult. I was lucky, I'd never been taught hate. However, I wish I'd been exposed to more human diversity than I was at the time. When I was an impressionable youth. It would have been easier, for me, to recognize the humanity of people who weren't straight white heterosexual middle-class Catholics from the suburbs.
Tom

It was a loving, secure world for you. I'm glad that it was loving and secure for you. But it certainly was NOT loving and not secure for a lot of kids.

 

[TomC]

It was a loving, secure world for you. I'm glad that it was loving and secure for you. But it certainly was NOT loving and not secure for a lot of kids.

You do realize that I grew up gay in that world, right?
Tom

 

[Toni]

It was a loving, secure world for you. I'm glad that it was loving and secure for you. But it certainly was NOT loving and not secure for a lot of kids.

You do realize that I grew up gay in that world, right?
Tom

I realize that you grew up gay but were/are bi enough or in the closet enough to have had a girl friend with whom you had sex.

I don't know you in real life. I'm honestly not making light at all of the struggles of non-cis, non-straight people growing up in a very straight world, with pretty narrowly defined sex roles and stereotypes. Remember, I'm only a little older than you and I grew up in the Southern Baptist version of your world, less than 20 miles away. It must have been terribly difficult to figure out how to deal with who you are, as a kid, growing up in that time and in that place. It was for the kids I knew.

I'm not trying to imply that you knew as a young boy that you were gay or that you should have known or that you would have known if things had been more like they are today, when being gay is somewhat easier.

YOU were the one who said that it was loving and secure. I'm sure that it was. For you. Unless you meant what you wrote ironically and I totally missed it in which case, you have my most profuse and sincere apologies.

I knew a lot of kids, some of whom were gay, who did not have a safe and secure environment but who struggled a lot, some receiving a lot of ridicule and abuse from classmates. Some, from home as well.

I'm glad if things were better than that for you, and easier. Truly. And I'm really sorry if it was not.

 

[Jarhyn]

It was a loving, secure world for you. I'm glad that it was loving and secure for you. But it certainly was NOT loving and not secure for a lot of kids.

You do realize that I grew up gay in that world, right?
Tom

I realize that you grew up gay but were/are bi enough or in the closet enough to have had a girl friend with whom you had sex.

I don't know you in real life. I'm honestly not making light at all of the struggles of non-cis, non-straight people growing up in a very straight world, with pretty narrowly defined sex roles and stereotypes. Remember, I'm only a little older than you and I grew up in the Southern Baptist version of your world, less than 20 miles away. It must have been terribly difficult to figure out how to deal with who you are, as a kid, growing up in that time and in that place. It was for the kids I knew.

I'm not trying to imply that you knew as a young boy that you were gay or that you should have known or that you would have known if things had been more like they are today, when being gay is somewhat easier.

YOU were the one who said that it was loving and secure. I'm sure that it was. For you. Unless you meant what you wrote ironically and I totally missed it in which case, you have my most profuse and sincere apologies.

I knew a lot of kids, some of whom were gay, who did not have a safe and secure environment but who struggled a lot, some receiving a lot of ridicule and abuse from classmates. Some, from home as well.

I'm glad if things were better than that for you, and easier. Truly. And I'm really sorry if it was not.

I was the Midwest version of this, born in the 80's. Even as a "90's kid" the messaging about being gay was pretty clear in religious circles.

As someone well off the beaten path of heterosexuality I bought, hook, line, and sinker the idea of being straight.

It was a rude awakening figuring out that I wasn't, and that being gay wasn't what I was told by religious sources.

I got the ridicule and abuse for being what I was, despite thinking at the time I wasn't.

Life is hell growing up for all the atypical, and especially among cultures that deny that atypical people are a thing. I don't see that ever changing, because in truth I don't think people like being considered "typical" in the first place. People who break the mold make those who don't feel bad, and I don't see a way to prevent that from being a thing.

I don't think it's right, but it also seems unavoidable.

Having desires and dreams, and being the sort of person who refuses to let those dreams die or fade, who will live those dreams and desires even in the face of all that pressure to conform and hide and be in a closet is terrifying, in it's own way too. After all, if someone has the power to say "I will be different and screw what others think", it belies a sort of power where what someone decides to do regardless of society is "be the shadow".

People in older times thought that the ability to step away from the reproductive cycle was already stepping into the shadow and they knew no different.

 

[TomC]

I was the Midwest version of this, born in the 80's.

OMG!
You were born in the 80s?
You're just a baby!

I literally wore a shirt yesterday older than you.

Tom

 

[Jarhyn]

I was the Midwest version of this, born in the 80's.

OMG!
You were born in the 80s?
You're just a baby!

Tom

Whatever, old man.

 

[TomC]

Unless you meant what you wrote ironically and I totally missed it in which case, you have my

Oh no. I meant just what I said, nothing ironic.
All I meant was that while parents can be excellent in many ways, my life would have been better with a lot more diversity in it. Blacks, gays, protestants, immigrants, all those kinds of people.

So I'm glad things like drag story hour at the library for toddlers is happening.
Tom

 

[Toni]

My kids are contemporaries of Jarhyn’s, also growing up in the Midwest. They seem very comfortable with their friends who are gay and did at least as far back as high school. For the younger ones, maybe middle school which typically is such a clusterfuck that basically everyone is just trying to survive—admittedly, sometimes by being monsters to kids they deem ‘different.’ The youngest is the same age as the trans individual I’ve mentioned who knew when they were at least as young as 5 that they were really a boy, although their mother dressed them in girl clothes and called them by a girl’s name. That did not change their friendship —but when the other child’s parents moved their kids to Catholic schools, the friendship faded.

But that’s not the same as one of my kids or me being gay so it’s just conjecture on my part and a very easy thing to think. I think maybe it was easier for them because we’ve had friends and neighbors who are gay and it just was. It’s also a college town so a bit more liberal than other towns this size.

 

[ZiprHead]

STL play center forced to relocate & reschedule kids Drag Storytime event as local LGBTQ businesses receive death threats

A South City play place for children with a cafe for adults has rescheduled and relocated its book reading event for kids with Drag performers due to safety concerns.

www.kmov.com

ST. LOUIS, Mo. (KMOV) - A South City play place for children with a cafe for adults has rescheduled and relocated its book reading event for kids with Drag performers due to safety concerns.

The owner of Urban Fort said it is unfortunate how people have responded to the event and is now taking precautions.

“Urban Fort is a place of acceptance and inclusion. Drag Storytime registrations are closed and the event has been moved to an undisclosed date, time and location to protect our patrons and employees,” owner, Megan King-Popp said. “We are concerned and dismayed with the violent threats our business and employees have received from opposition groups, and we’ve increased our security as a result. "

This week, three other LGBTQ-friendly businesses received death threats with homophobic slurs, including Prism STL in The Grove.

“It’s frustrating because we’re just people trying to be ourselves, trying to enjoy our lives,” said co-owner Sean Abernathy. “We’re not out to hurt anybody, but it feels like it’s a lot of people out to hurt us.”

On Tuesday, Attorney General Andrew Bailey demanded Missouri schools ban drag shows for school children.

“They want to classify it as a form of pornography or classify it as a form of adult content. It’s simply not that. It’s theater. Would you stop a child from seeing a show on Broadway?” local drag performer Ryan Klinghammer asked.

 

[bilby]

Shouldn't a place called "Urban Fort" have near impregnable security to begin with?

 

[Jarhyn]

STL play center forced to relocate & reschedule kids Drag Storytime event as local LGBTQ businesses receive death threats

A South City play place for children with a cafe for adults has rescheduled and relocated its book reading event for kids with Drag performers due to safety concerns.

www.kmov.com

ST. LOUIS, Mo. (KMOV) - A South City play place for children with a cafe for adults has rescheduled and relocated its book reading event for kids with Drag performers due to safety concerns.

The owner of Urban Fort said it is unfortunate how people have responded to the event and is now taking precautions.

“Urban Fort is a place of acceptance and inclusion. Drag Storytime registrations are closed and the event has been moved to an undisclosed date, time and location to protect our patrons and employees,” owner, Megan King-Popp said. “We are concerned and dismayed with the violent threats our business and employees have received from opposition groups, and we’ve increased our security as a result. "

This week, three other LGBTQ-friendly businesses received death threats with homophobic slurs, including Prism STL in The Grove.

“It’s frustrating because we’re just people trying to be ourselves, trying to enjoy our lives,” said co-owner Sean Abernathy. “We’re not out to hurt anybody, but it feels like it’s a lot of people out to hurt us.”

On Tuesday, Attorney General Andrew Bailey demanded Missouri schools ban drag shows for school children.

“They want to classify it as a form of pornography or classify it as a form of adult content. It’s simply not that. It’s theater. Would you stop a child from seeing a show on Broadway?” local drag performer Ryan Klinghammer asked.

I think they WOULD stop kids from accessing Broadway and theater if they could. After all, "all" those kids "turn out gay".

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

And exposure to violence is much worse for impressionable younguns.

Professional wrestling. Every issue is resolved with ott violence and kids are welcomed to it.

Yeah, the goal of grown men in spandex (or nylon) grappling one another is not to sexualize anyone but to lay the smacketh downeth. Sure it can be interpreted as such by those with a creative enough imagination. Maybe it's all in Republican heads? I mean it's not like they've provided any context other than an ensemble to support claims.

To add--I think you both may have either forgotten or not realized....

There are women wrestlers, too, and that is often sexualized...pillow fights in lingerie or whatever.



Bonus points to anyone who can count the number of children in the audience.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

And exposure to violence is much worse for impressionable younguns.

Professional wrestling. Every issue is resolved with ott violence and kids are welcomed to it.

Yeah, the goal of grown men in spandex (or nylon) grappling one another is not to sexualize anyone but to lay the smacketh downeth. Sure it can be interpreted as such by those with a creative enough imagination. Maybe it's all in Republican heads? I mean it's not like they've provided any context other than an ensemble to support claims.

To add--I think you both may have either forgotten or not realized....

There are women wrestlers, too, and that is often sexualized...pillow fights in lingerie or whatever.

Actually women's wrestling is well into its Renaissance period, where that sexualized shit is no where to be seen. Yes, their outfits are revealing... but the guys don't wear much either.

The interesting part is that the women wrestling today looked to Trish Stratus and Lita as inspiration not T&A "wrestlers" Terri Runnels or Torrie Wilson. Stratus went from T&A valet to top of the line women wrestler and Lita was on another level of her own. Now days, the WWE have a stable full of very good women wrestlers. Not a big fan of having my daughter watch though.

And of course, while the girls were bring inspired by Stratus and Lita... the boys were watching Runnels and Wilson (possibly led by their father's reaction to them) and seeing women paraded as sex objects. But again, no where near the atmosphere of that today.

/derail

 

[Emily Lake]

I think the bigger issue for me is how Drag Shows even became an "issue" when the bell was rung, the mouths of the right-wingers started drooling. Drag Shows six months ago... crickets... then the right-wing machine starts targetting them. It was incredible how quickly mobilized "conservatives" are by their handlers. And the best part is they think they have more liberty... all the while being jostled about on their strings like puppets.

The issue isn’t drag shows; it’s having children at sexually charged drag shows. But you knew that, right?

That's a load of nonsense, everyone in the country knows by now that this all started with fear mongering over Drag Queen Story Hour. Unless you see reading A Very Hungry Caterpillar to a bunch of toddlers as a "sexually charged drag show", then no, the paranoia is not just about kids in drag bars.

So, can we agree that kids shouldn't be in drag bars?

Trying to change the subject?

Yes or no?

I wouldn't take my child to a drag bar, if I had one, unless it were for some sort of explicitly kid-themed and age appropriate event.

But I also don't need or want the government to tell me how to run my family. I don't want them to tell me how many children to have, or what genders they are allowed to express, or where we are allowed to go, or what to eat and drink. If I wanted to live in a totalitarian pseudo-Christian hell hole, there are plenty of countries that fit that description, and I could simply move to one of those. As long as this place is a sort-of functioning democracy, I will continue to advocate for universal and equal civil rights for all citizens.

The government already places limits on how you run your family. They already tell you that you can't take your children to bars or strip clubs. They already tell you that you can't let you 12 year old drive the car or buy cigarettes. Pretty much ALL countries have some limitations on what parents can and cannot allow their kids to do.

 

[bilby]

I also don't need or want the government to tell me how to run my family.

Indeed.

But for many families, there's a need (or at least a want) for someone - it might as well be government - to step in and point out to the head of the family that the rest of the people in it are not their chattel property, and that they don't get to tell their wives and/or children how they must behave, nor do they get to censor what they see.

So there's certainly a place for government telling people how not to run "their" family.