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whichphilosophy said:
bigfield said:
To this day, Christians engage in:
Terrorism
Female genital mutilation
Child rape
Church cover-ups of child rape
Child conscription
Child slave labour
Rape as a weapon of war
Witch burnings
Lynchings
Holy wars
Cannibalism
Genocide

So it is pretty clear to me that you are, in fact, unable to see the obvious: that Islam does not have a monopoly on cruelty, hatred and violence.

Christians are the majority of the population in Australia: if you followed your piss-poor reasoning to its logical conclusion you would also believe that this country's Christian population, which undoubtedly includes much of your own family, are a huge threat for the same reasons your think Muslims are a threat.

Christians have a holy book full of insanity and evil.
Christians commit acts of unthinkable violence and cruelty.
Christians are actively trying to create Christian theocracies.
Yet you are able to recognise that most Christians are peaceful moderates.

Muslims have a holy book full of insanity and evil.
Muslims commit acts of unthinkable violence and cruelty.
Muslims are actively trying to create Islamic theocracies.
Yet you come to a different conclusion about Muslims than you do about Christians.

.

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Now that is a monstrosity!
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Is this proof that Muslims are integrating after all?
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Is that thing in the foreground a modernistic version of a minaret to call the faithful to worship? I assume that is a modern mosque. You know, whether it is Christian or Muslim or Jewish, we have always had to deal with these religions that condemn OUR KIND (ATHEISTS) to hell and cast aspersions on our morality. But actually the modern versions of these religions are capable of shedding some of their more anti-human qualities and rendering them safe to exist in a modern world. Christians used to burn witches and heretics at the stake. Today we just destroy entire Muslim countries with shock and awe. These backward savages don't appear to be adequately intimidated by these methods.

My point is that ALL THESE ABRAHAMIC RELIGIONS are capable of the absolutely most inhumane actions, yet members of these various faiths can also have personal preferences for humanistic values and when these prevail, we get the impression we may just be able to coexist with them. I have a hunch we have to, so I feel atheists and agnostics owe it to themselves to promote humanistic values and stay away from contests between the fucked up faiths of this world. The truth is that these religions are capable of being subverted from within by kindly people who do not believe in torture no matter what their ancient texts say. We have to allow them the chance to become more kindly. We have to be a good example and drop all this "eye for an eye" shit.
 
arkirk said:
whichphilosophy said:
Is this proof that Muslims are integrating after all?
Click to expand...

Is that thing in the foreground a modernistic version of a minaret to call the faithful to worship? I assume that is a modern mosque. You know, whether it is Christian or Muslim or Jewish, we have always had to deal with these religions that condemn OUR KIND (ATHEISTS) to hell and cast aspersions on our morality. But actually the modern versions of these religions are capable of shedding some of their more anti-human qualities and rendering them safe to exist in a modern world. Christians used to burn witches and heretics at the stake. Today we just destroy entire Muslim countries with shock and awe. These backward savages don't appear to be adequately intimidated by these methods.

My point is that ALL THESE ABRAHAMIC RELIGIONS are capable of the absolutely most inhumane actions, yet members of these various faiths can also have personal preferences for humanistic values and when these prevail, we get the impression we may just be able to coexist with them. I have a hunch we have to, so I feel atheists and agnostics owe it to themselves to promote humanistic values and stay away from contests between the fucked up faiths of this world. The truth is that these religions are capable of being subverted from within by kindly people who do not believe in torture no matter what their ancient texts say. We have to allow them the chance to become more kindly. We have to be a good example and drop all this "eye for an eye" shit.
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The problem is all the US did by attempting regime change is let loose the real barbarians which those dictatorships kept in check. I believe man never lost his savagery since we were a more primitive form of ape.The behaviour of Chimpanzees seems to indicate that we have not moved on from killing our own species.

Here is an article proposing interaction between atheists and interfaith groups.
http://www.thenewhumanism.org/autho...ould-the-nonreligious-join-in-interfaith-work
 
bilby said:
Loren Pechtel said:
She's not very credible.
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In the same way that the Pacific Ocean is not very dry.
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I wouldn't go quite that far. She's right more often than a stopped clock but I wouldn't take a claim from her as more than an indication that it might be worth seeing if there was anything to it.
 
DrZoidberg said:
angelo said:
Again I stress. Read the fucking Koran! There's no moderate Islam. They all know their prophet was the ultimate man, and they must emulate him in every way. Including pedophilia, not tolerating infidels, either convert them or they must pay a tax to the superior muzzie. It's lawful to lie for the cause, it's lawful to subdue non muzzies, ISIS is Islam in its purest form.
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I have read the Quran. Several translations. It's written in verse=vague. It's full of pretty metaphor. It's not a legal text. There's actually nothing about forcing people to emulate Mohammed. He's just upheld as a good role model. Which is questionable. But wasn't the topic here. On the non-toleration of infidels, the Quran is pretty specific. It's only the pagan Arabs that are to be instantly persecuted. They're all gone now. So it's moot. Regarding everybody else the Quran prattles on endlessly about that it's always better to forgive those who have transgressed you.

Like most religious text you can behave pretty much any way you want and you'll be able to find justification for it in the Quran. So claiming that ISIS is Islam in it's purest form I'd say is Islamophobia (the correct way of interpreting that word).

ISIS are the way they are because it's members are dicks. Not because they are Muslims. The Nazis were the way they were because they were dicks. Not because they were Christian. Same thing. Both these movements used their respective holy books to justify their atrocities. Whether or not either of them interpreted their holy book correct is a retarded debate. They both did, and didn't at the same time. That's the problem with a vague text.
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http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm
 
bigfield said:
To this day, Christians engage in:
Terrorism
Female genital mutilation
Child rape
Church cover-ups of child rape
Child conscription
Child slave labour
Rape as a weapon of war
Witch burnings
Lynchings
Holy wars
Cannibalism
Genocide

So it is pretty clear to me that you are, in fact, unable to see the obvious: that Islam does not have a monopoly on cruelty, hatred and violence.

Christians are the majority of the population in Australia: if you followed your piss-poor reasoning to its logical conclusion you would also believe that this country's Christian population, which undoubtedly includes much of your own family, are a huge threat for the same reasons your think Muslims are a threat.

Christians have a holy book full of insanity and evil.
Christians commit acts of unthinkable violence and cruelty.
Christians are actively trying to create Christian theocracies.
Yet you are able to recognise that most Christians are peaceful moderates.

Muslims have a holy book full of insanity and evil.
Muslims commit acts of unthinkable violence and cruelty.
Muslims are actively trying to create Islamic theocracies.
Yet you come to a different conclusion about Muslims than you do about Christians.

It's obvious that you simply have a deep-seated fear and hatred of Muslims. It's likely because you are 'educated' by the mass media who are incapable of journalistic integrity and critical thought.

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Jokodo said:
View attachment 4462
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Now that is a monstrosity!
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So it's the Baptists, Catholics, Rosicrucian, not muzzies that have carried out over 95.000 terrorist attacks since 9/11, which by the way was a CIA, or Jewish conspiracy?
 
Jokodo said:
TSwizzle said:
And yet, the ranks of ISIL are filled with ordinary, pious, followers of teh islam.
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Most Muslims would disagree.

They have at least as much reason to do so as you have to protest being compared with Breivik. Probably more.
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Recent pew research which I can't find ATM disagrees. That research showed that more than 60% of so called moderate muzzies are in agreement with isil. Or they refuse to condemn their atrocities.
 
TSwizzle said:
Merely pointing out your comparison is shit and irrelevant and therefore YOU are the one trying to distract but failing. I honestly thought you would have tried Timothy McVeigh first.
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Its not irrelevant. Whether other Muslims agree or disagree with the atrocities committed by some Muslims is possibly the most relevant question to ask before you condemn all Muslims for those atrocities. For the same reason for which you should ask yourself whether other Christian/Norwegians agree with someone like Breivik before you condemn all for his acts.

And why would I "try Timothy McVeigh"? You've demonstrated a mindset very close to Anders Breivik's (barely distinguishable indeed) in this thread, while you haven't demonstrated a mindset close to McVeigh's, not that I've noticed. That makes Anders Breivik the more relevant comparison.
 
Everything about this narrative is false. There is no such thing as a “Palestinian” people, an idea that arose only after the Six Day War of 1967. The bulk of the people mistakenly called “Palestinians” are ethnically, religiously, and linguistically indistinguishable from Arab Muslims in Lebanon, Jordan, or Syria. Numerous comments by Arab leaders before 1967 emphasized this fact. For example, Zouhair Muhsin, a member of the Executive Council of the PLO, said, “There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity… Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel.”
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Linked from this article : http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/260465/middle-east-and-orwellian-historical-arguments-bruce-thornton
 
angelo said:
So it's the Baptists, Catholics, Rosicrucian, not muzzies that have carried out over 95.000 terrorist attacks since 9/11, which by the way was a CIA, or Jewish conspiracy?
Click to expand...

It's apparent from your response that you are ignorant of the evils perpetuated by Christians to this very day. You have resorted to a Gish Gallop, tactics whereby you just keep throwing up lies and logical fallacies, paying no heed to all of your previous arguments that have been demonstrated to be garbage.

When someone resorts to a Gish Gallop it's a clear sign that they do not have a reasoned argument that supports their position. After all, if you really believed that atrocities committed in warzones and failed states had any bearing on the behaviour of people living in Australia, then you would be deathly afraid of Australia's Christian population.

TSwizzle said:
bigfield said:
And your local Muslims aren't the ones throwing gays off of rooftops.
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And yet, the ranks of ISIL are filled with ordinary, pious, followers of teh islam.
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You have a bizarre notion of ordinary.
 
Loren Pechtel said:
bilby said:
In the same way that the Pacific Ocean is not very dry.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't go quite that far. She's right more often than a stopped clock but I wouldn't take a claim from her as more than an indication that it might be worth seeing if there was anything to it.
Click to expand...

A stopped 24 hour clock with the numbers visible is correct once a day and a standard one could be interpreted as correct twice a day. She takes extreme and partial data. To quote a Yiddish proverb, a half truth is a lie.
 
angelo said:
Everything about this narrative is false. There is no such thing as a “Palestinian” people, an idea that arose only after the Six Day War of 1967. The bulk of the people mistakenly called “Palestinians” are ethnically, religiously, and linguistically indistinguishable from Arab Muslims in Lebanon, Jordan, or Syria. Numerous comments by Arab leaders before 1967 emphasized this fact. For example, Zouhair Muhsin, a member of the Executive Council of the PLO, said, “There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity… Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel.”
Click to expand...
Linked from this article : http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/260465/middle-east-and-orwellian-historical-arguments-bruce-thornton
Click to expand...

Many of them are Hebrews, former jews who were forcibly converted to Islam. There are other articles on this

http://www.jpost.com/Magazine/Features/The-lost-Palestinian-Jews

But the mother of his maternal grandfather, King On, was descended from a family of forced Jewish converts to Islam that immigrated to the east bank of the Jordan, later returning to one of the villages west of the Jordan. Unlike today, when Faisal was growing up, his grandfather's mother's Jewish origin was known, and they made no great effort to hide it. And what was known to Faisal is known to many Palestinians today as well." This is a story of what may be one of the best-kept secrets in history - one that could, in time, heal the terrible rift that has torn the Land of Israel asunder. After years of research, Misinai says that he can declare with certainty that nearly 90 percent of all Palestinians are descended from the Jews. "And what's more, about half of them know it," he says. Not only that, many Palestinians retain Jewish customs, including mourning rituals, lighting Shabbat or memorial candles and even wearing tefillin. While the common wisdom among many Israelis is that the group that calls itself "Palestinian" is a motley collection of Arabs from various parts of the Middle East who immigrated to the Land of Israel following the employment opportunities provided by Jews, Misinai says that the vast majority of today's Palestinians are descended from the remnants of Jewish families who managed to avoid being deported over the past 2,000 years, or returned to their lands after they were exiled, as the Jews in the Holy Land suffered blow after blow - from the Roman destruction of the Temple to the Crusades to famine, poverty and war throughout the Middle Ages. One thing many were unable to avoid, however, was converting to Islam - a forced conversion that never really "took," done more out of fear than conviction. Misinai has made it his mission to spread the word among Palestinians, giving them the opportunity to retrieve their lost heritage
 
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