All because Iran has been stirring up trouble for 40 years and the Arab powers even longer--they love the war in EastAsia. This isn't about Israel, it's about Iran.
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Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel
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What's the most important budget item in the PA budget? Money paid to the families of terrorists. That means they are directly funding terrorism and have been doing so all along.The State Department didn't say anything about what the Palestinian Authority did to stop attacks, or about the money they give to families of terrorists. It also doesn't compare Israelis to Afrikaaners or make sweeping statements about whole groups of people. Just sayin.
The data emphasizes the increased frequency and severity of attacks in 2022, contributing to heightened security in the region.
The Palestinian Authority is not considered a terrorist organization, and it would not have had any role or influence that would allow it to stop Hamas from attacking Israel.
Palestinian Authority Martyrs Fund - Wikipedia
The changed hats in response to western pressure but it's still government money. It's approximately 10% of the PA budget and about 3% of GDP. And note that that does not include what Hamas is spending on such payments.
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lpetrich
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Arctish
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The areas proposed in the Partition Plan that would have become Israel didn't match what the Zionists wanted for their State, and the Palestinians didn't want their homeland to be partitioned at all. They both rejected the UN proposal which is why it was never implemented.
And anyway, a resolution to partition the British Mandate lands into two States is not recognition of either one of them. Or do you think the State of Palestine was formed along with the State of Israel via UN resolution 181 back in 1947?
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That's so daft. If a group anticipates that a certain action will provoke an international reaction against their adversary, thus advancing their cause, they view this as a strategic success. In the context of groups like Hamas, their understanding of 'blame' is different. They perceive actions that lead Israel to respond in a way that garners international criticism as beneficial for their objectives. It's a tactical victory for their cause. If one of them read your post they'd click the like button.
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Copernicus
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What's the most important budget item in the PA budget? Money paid to the families of terrorists. That means they are directly funding terrorism and have been doing so all along.The State Department didn't say anything about what the Palestinian Authority did to stop attacks, or about the money they give to families of terrorists. It also doesn't compare Israelis to Afrikaaners or make sweeping statements about whole groups of people. Just sayin.
The data emphasizes the increased frequency and severity of attacks in 2022, contributing to heightened security in the region.
The Palestinian Authority is not considered a terrorist organization, and it would not have had any role or influence that would allow it to stop Hamas from attacking Israel.
Palestinian Authority Martyrs Fund - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
The changed hats in response to western pressure but it's still government money. It's approximately 10% of the PA budget and about 3% of GDP. And note that that does not include what Hamas is spending on such payments.
The families of terrorists, whether real or merely alleged, are not the perpetrators, so Israel's policy of victimizing innocent family members to get revenge on the actual perpetrators is racist, despicable, and inhumane. I have no problem with the PA's support for their families. There is no way that the PA can be considered "directly funding terrorism" with this policy.
Tigers!
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Both did not reject the UN proposal, only the Arabs rejected it..
I am well aware that the lands wanted by the Jews did not match what was offered but nonetheless Ben-Gurion and the Jewish Agency signalled their acceptance of the proposal.
Since the proposal was not accepted by the Arabs and 5 Arab armies invaded Jewish areas on 15th May 1948 then any new borders would be decided by force.
Arctish
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The Zionist leadership accepted the idea of creating a Jewish State in Palestine but they did not accept what was proposed to be their portion. Ben Gurion's endorsement was partial acceptance at best. Privately, he and the Jewish Agency for Palestine put the finishing touches on Plan Dalet to seize land by conquest and drive out non-Jews.
The Palestinian leadership rejected the plan to divide Palestine. They made their own proposal which would have given full and equal citizenship to all Palestinians born in Palestine before the beginning of the British Mandate, regardless of their religious beliefs or ethnic origins, and grant resident status with a path to full citizenship for immigrants who had arrived in Palestine via legal means.
Euro-centric chauvanism and racism aside, why would immigrants like Ben Gurion have more say in the future of Palestine than the indigenous population whose communities had been there for thousands of years?
Anyway, if you believe the UN created the State of Israel via resolution 181 then you must also believe Israelis invaded their neighbor's territory in April of 1948 with the intention of seizing resources and infrastructure through ethnic cleansing and conquest.
So I guess you believe Israel owes compensation to the non-Jews who were impacted by the actions of its Zionist founders.
The borders were already being decided by force. Zionists had been carving out parcels of Palestine for years before UN resolution 181 was proposed. Plan Dalet was part of a carefully thought out series of steps intended to establish borders that gave the Zionists the resources and infrastructure they wanted, not borders anyone else in the region wanted or would accept.
The history of the conflict doesn't start in May of 1948. The bodies of people killed in the strife, soldiers, civilians, LEOs, and terrorists alike, have been filling the graveyards there since the 1920s.
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Don2 (Don1 Revised)
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EDIT: Take this with a grain of salt. I'm terrible at timelines.
All over a colossal 19th century fuck up that started in Nazi Germany with the holocaust killing and displacing Jews, then the British government's asinine Balfour Declaration that sought to displace people with said displaced people, then the League of Nations granting those idiots in Britain the authorization to do so, followed by The United Nation of lip service (who today are pretending they aren't also responsible while acting like fixers) echoing support & finally climaxing with David Ben-Gurion's dick move declaration of the State of Israel. Arab's lose their shit and Europeans get all surprise Pikachu face while screaming foul at the violent response.
All over a colossal 19th century fuck up that started in Nazi Germany with the holocaust killing and displacing Jews, then the British government's asinine Balfour Declaration that sought to displace people with said displaced people, then the League of Nations granting those idiots in Britain the authorization to do so, followed by The United Nation of lip service (who today are pretending they aren't also responsible while acting like fixers) echoing support & finally climaxing with David Ben-Gurion's dick move declaration of the State of Israel. Arab's lose their shit and Europeans get all surprise Pikachu face while screaming foul at the violent response.
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lpetrich
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That's very mixed-up history. Be careful of the chronology. VERY careful.
You're right. I'm not very good at timelines, but the gist is that it was an incredibly dumb idea to whole cloth establish the state of Israel over what amounts to colonial geopolitics.
TomC
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You and I don't often agree on this topic. So I gotta say,
The way Israel was created was an incredibly hamfisted bit of EuroColonial bullshit. All too typical, draw borders where it suits the Euros, with little regard for anybody else.
Tom
Derec
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Even your "gist" is wrong. Israel wasn't established from the "whole cloth". Israel has history in the land of, well, Israel. In fact, Israel (under the Hasmoneans - aka the Maccabees) was the last natively ruled polity in the land until the reestablishment of the State of Israel in 1948.
There was never an Arab state called "Palestine", much less one with Jerusalem as its capital. In fact the word was used as merely a geographical, not ethnic, term until the PLO invented Palestinian national identity in the 1960s or so. A "Palestine" footy team playing against Australia in the 1930s was, in fact, Jewish. Even if idiots use it to claim that "Palestine" predates Israel. "Palestine Post" was a Zionist newspaper and has evolved into Jerusalem Post. And so on.
Derec
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You are not wrong. You started with Nazi Germany in the 19th century, and it went downhill from there.
Jimmy Higgins
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I'm so tired of the whataboutism with the Arabs and Israel. Not to commit a false equivalence, but over the past 100 years, both sides have blood on their hands. One side (Arabs) has more blood, but this isn't a moral high ground thing. Israel were the victims of brutal assault in October. But it just feels like any discussion about how to deal with this, just muddles back on to whataboutism... which does nothing to solve the problem or stop the murders.
Currently, those supporting endless Israeli responses are unwilling to accept that if Israel exiles every Gazan, that doesn't stop Israeli blood from spilling. There will be more killing.
And the Arabs just love to use the Palestinians as their meek little pawns of pawns. Radical Iranian leadership can't have peace because they need Israel as a foil. Radical Israeli leadership want it all (something that seems ridiculously impossible). When radicals run both sides of the show, nothing good will happen... and it gets exhausting watching people make excuses for condoning future violence.
Even your "gist" is wrong. Israel wasn't established from the "whole cloth". Israel has history in the land of, well, Israel. In fact, Israel (under the Hasmoneans - aka the Maccabees) was the last natively ruled polity in the land until the reestablishment of the State of Israel in 1948.
There was never an Arab state called "Palestine", much less one with Jerusalem as its capital. In fact the word was used as merely a geographical, not ethnic, term until the PLO invented Palestinian national identity in the 1960s or so. A "Palestine" footy team playing against Australia in the 1930s was, in fact, Jewish. Even if idiots use it to claim that "Palestine" predates Israel. "Palestine Post" was a Zionist newspaper and has evolved into Jerusalem Post. And so on.
The same person that would post this as justification is the same person that would argue against giving all land back to the Mohawk, Oneida, Onondaga, Cayuga, and Seneca tribes.
Tigers!
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I never stated that the Jewish Agency accepted the partition plan whole heartedly. But thank you for acknowledging that they did accept it.
Convenient. Grant majority status to the people you like and kick out those you do not. Pity about the Jewish inhabitants who had been there for thousands of years before being driven out.
I do like your comment about legal means though.
Australia. UK, USA et. al are having loud discussions about what to do about 'illegal' immigrants. Do let us know when you have a solution.
For probably the same reason we allow recent immigrants to places like Australia & America to have say in the country's future. Your indigenous inhabitants (& Australia's) might have some views on that particular topic though.
That would need to be considered certainly.
Yes sadly.
Arctish
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They accepted the idea of partition (that was their goal, after all) but they did not accept the proposed partition.
What are you talking about?
The Jewish inhabitants whose families had been there for thousands of years, aka the Palestinian Jews, would have been full citizens alongside the Palestinian Christians, Palestinian Muslims, Palestinian Druze, Palestinian Zoroastrians, and every other indigenous Palestinian.
Those who had immigrated legally would have been legal residents with a path to full citizenship.
The only folks who would have been excluded from automatic citizenship or legal residency were the illegal immigrants who mostly came from Europe.
I will.
I haven't worked out all the details but I can already tell you that letting them violently overthrow the local government, drive out the local population, and seize territory which they claim is a new State isn't part of it, even if the UN says it's okay.
Recent legal immigrants, or recent illegal immigrants?
Our indigenous inhabitants do have a lot to say about it, especially when it comes to respecting society in the place where a new arrival wants to live vs. being determined to destroy that society and replace it with something else.
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That seems like a huge stretch of a rationalization. It's not like there weren't Arabs living in a place called Palestine.