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Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

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ZiprHead said:
Derec said:
There was never an Arab state called "Palestine", much less one with Jerusalem as its capital. In fact the word was used as merely a geographical, not ethnic, term until the PLO invented Palestinian national identity in the 1960s or so.
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That seems like a huge stretch of a rationalization. It's not like there wern't Arabs living in a place called Palestine.
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And it's not like there isn't archeological evidence of the name "Palestine" (with minor variations in spelling and symbols representing phonomes) being used to describe that part of the world for thousands of years.
 
Gospel said:
You're right. I'm not very good at timelines, but the gist is that it was an incredibly dumb idea to whole cloth establish the state of Israel over what amounts to colonial geopolitics.
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I would say that it's in the running for the hotly contested "Worst ever decision in Colonial Geopolitics", though if Pakistan and India start lobbing nukes at each other, they might yet snatch victory in that particular contest.

Russian imperial ambitions in the Balkans are another contender, and have a Great War (with the destruction of three empires, including Russia's) to show for their efforts, though many are saying that they peaked too early. Putin has ambitions to re-establish the Russian Empire, and could make a late comeback possible.
 
Can someone explain why we would care if the word "Palestine" was ethnic or geographical? I mean, it seems like a useless distinction to get upset about. Also, if people don't have a recognized country, what's wrong with them using an established geographical name in the name of their country when they try to get it recognized? Why flip out about this? Did these same people get mad at South Africa?
 
Instead of acknowledging the hypocrisy inherent in displacing people to create a refuge for the displaced, they choose to justify further displacement under the guise of addressing displacement. Make's complete sense.
 
Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
Can someone explain why we would care if the word "Palestine" was ethnic or geographical? I mean, it seems like a useless distinction to get upset about. Also, if people don't have a recognized country, what's wrong with them using an established geographical name in the name of their country when they try to get it recognized? Why flip out about this? Did these same people get mad at South Africa?
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It's just another way to claim Palestine was "a land without a people, for a people without a land". It's horseshit, but it serves a purpose which is why it gets spread around.
 
Iran launches at 'terrorists' in Pakistan and the Kurdish region. Pakistan launches at terrorists in Iran.

Bombing is having no effect on shipping attacks. Supply chains affected.

Netanyahu says there will be no independent Palestinian state and in the interest of security will control Palestinian land, settlements to continue.

At this point, fuck Israel. They made their own bed let them sleep in it.
 
Benjamin Netanyahu Just Said “From the River to the Sea”
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Thursday rejected the premise of a Palestinian state and promised that Israel will take over the entire region it currently occupies, “from the river to the sea,” according to an English translation on the Israeli news channel i24NEWS.

According to other translations, Netanyahu said that Israel “must have security control over the entire territory west of the Jordan River,” which is basically the same thing.

The prime minister vowed to oppose the creation of any Palestinian state, as Israel continues its horrific military bombardment of Gaza.
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Original Party Platform of the Likud Party (1977; Jewish Virtual Library)
The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)

a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.

b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace.
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Based on an article in the NYT (behind a paywall), the Times of Israel has published this article, which is critical of the IDF goals in Gaza:

IDF commanders said to believe quashing Hamas, returning hostages alive incompatible​


The NYT interviewed four anonymous "senior commanders", and the IDF has already rejected the claim that the war is unwinnable. However, the tunnel network, which was thought to be about 100 miles long is now estimated to be 450 miles long. There appears to be no way that the IDF can extricate the hostages in a way that they can survive, so diplomacy is the only solution.

The interviewed commanders said the unexpected challenges of tackling Hamas, and indecision by Israeli leaders, have made it unlikely that the over 130 Israelis still held by the terror group can be retrieved other than through diplomacy.

The report also noted that the war has not proceeded at the pace expected at its start. Reviewing army estimates and plans from October, the paper said the military had expected to have operational control of Gaza City, Khan Younis and Rafah by the end of December.
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Apparently, Hamas is reemerging in areas that the IDF has already cleared.


The Times noted that in northern Gaza, from which the military has removed many of its troops after saying it had destroyed Hamas’s operation infrastructure there, the terror group is already attempting to regain control. Citing an unidentified Israeli official, it said that in recent days, Hamas policemen and welfare figures had emerged in some areas in northern Gaza and sought to reassert authority there.

Troops have been carrying out operations at a lower intensity in northern Gaza for the past several weeks, after the military said it had defeated all of Hamas’s battalions in the area. The soldiers have been working to locate the remaining Hamas sites and kill or capture the terror group’s last operatives.
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The Israeli government still appears to have no idea of when or how to end the war, but Defense Minister Gallant has this vision of plodding on:

Defense Minister Yoav Gallant said Monday that the “intensive phase” of Israel’s ground offensive in northern Gaza has ended, and would soon be over in the Khan Younis area of the Strip’s south as well.

But he also warned that “political indecision” regarding the future of Gaza “may harm the progress of the military operation.”

The IDF has assessed that fighting in Gaza will likely last throughout all of 2024, as Israel works to strip Hamas of its military and governing capabilities. It has also vowed to continue fighting until all remaining hostages are released from captivity.

“I would like to reiterate, at the end of the war, there will be no military threat from Gaza. Hamas will not be able to control and function as a military force in the Gaza Strip, and the IDF will have full freedom of action to do whatever is required to defend the citizens of Israel,” Gallant said Monday. “It may take a long time, but it will end with a single scenario, total victory.”
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The longer this war continues, the Israeli material standard of living will diminish. because this war has reduced the available workforce and absorbed other resources that would have been channeled to civilian uses.

Which might be tolerable to the Israeli civilians if more hostages are returned alive on a regular basis. If they start coming home in boxes, there will be major demonstrations and problems for the current government.
 
laughing dog said:
The longer this war continues, the Israeli material standard of living will diminish. because this war has reduced the available workforce and absorbed other resources that would have been channeled to civilian uses.

Which might be tolerable to the Israeli civilians if more hostages are returned alive on a regular basis. If they start coming home in boxes, there will be major demonstrations and problems for the current government.
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I'm confident that Palestinians standard of living is dropping faster than Israelis.
Where are the demonstrations and demands for peace?
Tom
 
TomC said:
laughing dog said:
The longer this war continues, the Israeli material standard of living will diminish. because this war has reduced the available workforce and absorbed other resources that would have been channeled to civilian uses.

Which might be tolerable to the Israeli civilians if more hostages are returned alive on a regular basis. If they start coming home in boxes, there will be major demonstrations and problems for the current government.
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I'm confident that Palestinians standard of living is dropping faster than Israelis.
Where are the demonstrations and demands for peace?
Tom
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It is all about revenge.
 
laughing dog said:
It is all about revenge.
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Why do you think that?
I think it's about security for Israelis.

Doubtless there's an element of revenge. People lost loved ones to a brutal attack and subsequent hostage taking and killings.

But I don't think it's all about revenge.
Tom
 
TomC said:
laughing dog said:
It is all about revenge.
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Why do you think that?
I think it's about security for Israelis.

Doubtless there's an element of revenge. People lost loved ones to a brutal attack and subsequent hostage taking and killings.

But I don't think it's all about revenge.
Tom
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If you don't think about revenge, then why gloat about the misery in Gaza?
 
TomC said:
laughing dog said:
TomC said:
laughing dog said:
It is all about revenge.
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Why do you think that?
I think it's about security for Israelis.

Doubtless there's an element of revenge. People lost loved ones to a brutal attack and subsequent hostage taking and killings.

But I don't think it's all about revenge.
Tom
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If you don't think about revenge, then why gloat about the misery in Gaza?
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I don't.
I hate it.
Tom
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The content of your posts are radically inconsistent with your claim.
 
laughing dog said:
TomC said:
laughing dog said:
TomC said:
laughing dog said:
It is all about revenge.
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Why do you think that?
I think it's about security for Israelis.

Doubtless there's an element of revenge. People lost loved ones to a brutal attack and subsequent hostage taking and killings.

But I don't think it's all about revenge.
Tom
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If you don't think about revenge, then why gloat about the misery in Gaza?
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I don't.
I hate it.
Tom
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The content of your posts are radically inconsistent with your claim.
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Where?
Maybe your misrepresentation of my posts is, but if so it's because you misrepresent them.
Tom
 
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