Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[Arctish]

My narrative is "Greedy violent assholes are the problem. The only way problems like this one are ever resolved is through justice, fairness, and upholding human rights equally for all. The biggest obstacle to peace is the willingness of greedy violent assholes to attack anyone who fights against their greedy violent asshole ways, and threatens to undo their greedy violent asshole systems of power and influence."

Perhaps you've mentioned Hamas and their Islamic supporters on that. I don't recall it. Feel free to enlighten me.

Do you think that Hamas and their international supporters like Iran should be answering to the ICJ? If so, I don't remember it.

But I digress.
Do you think that Islamic terrorists are the main problem or Zionists?
I see the main problem as being, in the 21st century, as violent Muslims. Feel free to explain if you think differently.
Tom

You can follow your path to enlightenment here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and maybe a few other posts in this thread alone.

 

[DrZoidberg]

The reason IDF is dropping bombs is because Hamas drops bombs.

Using the mighty Gazan Air Force to strike deep into Israel.

View attachment 45258

You realize basically any such image out of Gaza is done by Hamas, very often staged by Hamas. And sometimes not even real. (AI goofs have been seen.) Never take them at face value.

Are you seriously suggesting that I should not believe that there are both chickens and rubble in Gaza, because the photograph of them was probably staged by a propagandist? To what possible purpose?

Seriously, you should seek pahychological help, if this is your response to my tongue in cheek post about the (nonexistent) Gazan Air Force. Your paranoia is off the charts.

Given what I see as so much vicious hypocrisy and poor information I see from the anti-Semites on this thread, your tongue-in-cheek comment just looked like more of the same.
Tom

Yeah, I'm an anti-Semite.

Half of my family are Jewish; I grew up surrounded by Jewish traditions and culture; I was at school before I even realised that Jews were supposedly different from gentiles.

When I first learned about the rise of Nazi Germany, and the teacher said that people were being abused just for looking Jewish, I was genuinely confused, because I couldn't see how Jewish people looked different from everybody else. I mean, you can see who takes after his mother or his father in appearance; But the idea that Jewishness was a visible characteristic astonished me.

But sure, if I am not a wholehearted backer of everything Bibi Netanyahu does, I must be anti-Semitic.

My ex wife is Israeli/Hungarian Jew. I thought Jews were like gentiles until we watched Jewish comedies together. Jews laugh at slightly different places. A much darker sensibility.

She could spot another Jew at a hundred paces. Nailed it every time.

Then there's the saying that Jews need a Jewish therapist and Catholics a Catholic one, because their upbringings are too fucked up to be understood by others.

After being married to her for many years and hanging out with her friends and family, I no longer think Jews are just like "us".

She btw, on the Palestine/Israel conflict said, "I think they both deserve eachother". So in spite of living many years in fear of suicide bombers in Jerusalem, she didn’t pick a side. And that’s a very Jewish attitude. Jews are good at seeing the perspectives of others. Probably because they've been trained by history to.

She also once quipped "at least the Palestinians don't hate us as much as we hate ourselves".

I haven't talked with her for years. I don’t know if her opinions on the conflict changed after the October attack. I suspect so. Many Jews did.

That's where my information comes from.

My ex wife was brutally pragmatic and clear headed. She didn’t give a fuck about religion or ideology. She just wanted to get on with life. A very Jewish attitude. She was also militantly atheistic. She hated all religion with a passion. Also a common attitude among Jews. Hence the saying "two Jews, three opinions ".

 

[DrZoidberg]

And yeah. Hamas!

The emergence of Hamas is a relatively new development compared to the longstanding control measures in place. If my examples don't resonate, feel free to consider any country you wouldn't want overseeing U.S. imports to understand my point. Nonetheless, it seems to me that the specific country might not matter to you; you might even accept Iran managing our resources if it meant unwavering support for Israel despite wrong doings.

The Palestinians have been doing this shit since Israel was founded. Its just new names for new terror organisations. Hammas is new'ish. So?

 

[bilby]

After being married to her for many years and hanging out with her friends and family, I no longer think Jews are just like "us".

After growing up surrounded by both Jewish and Gentile relatives, including step-siblings and step parents (plural), I think Jews are "us".

Nobody you didn't grow up with is just like "us"; Your experience is unexceptional, and your observations of what makes Jews different could just as well be observations of what makes Hungarians different.

In fact, my experience with Hungarians is that they are definitely slightly odd in many ways.

 

[Gospel]

And yeah. Hamas!

The emergence of Hamas is a relatively new development compared to the longstanding control measures in place. If my examples don't resonate, feel free to consider any country you wouldn't want overseeing U.S. imports to understand my point. Nonetheless, it seems to me that the specific country might not matter to you; you might even accept Iran managing our resources if it meant unwavering support for Israel despite wrong doings.

The Palestinians have been doing this shit since Israel was founded. Its just new names for new terror organisations. Hammas is new'ish. So?

Yeah and Isreal has been displacing Arabs since it was founded. Your point?

 

[DrZoidberg]

And yeah. Hamas!

The emergence of Hamas is a relatively new development compared to the longstanding control measures in place. If my examples don't resonate, feel free to consider any country you wouldn't want overseeing U.S. imports to understand my point. Nonetheless, it seems to me that the specific country might not matter to you; you might even accept Iran managing our resources if it meant unwavering support for Israel despite wrong doings.

The Palestinians have been doing this shit since Israel was founded. Its just new names for new terror organisations. Hammas is new'ish. So?

Yeah and Isreal has been displacing Arabs since it was founded. Your point?

The Jews are not going to get the confiscated Jewish lands in Syria and Jordan. They've accepted that. Because living in peace is better than continually holding a grudge. Sometimes you just have to agree to disagree and move on. The Israeli Jews seem capable of this kind of pragmatism. The Muslims seem unable to. BTW, the Quran goes on and on about the virtue of forgiving your enemies. Because peace. It gets repeated so much it's tedious. So they can't blame this behaviour on the Quran.

Israel is not going anywhere. The choice for the Palestinians is to continually be misrable or just accept that we can't all get what we want. Yeah, it sucks. But sometimes forgiving those we hate is the best thing for our own state of mind. The Palestinians are just being intransigent and unreasonable. That's what is happening here. And the last thing we want is for Israel to now back down, and start giving Palestinians stuff. That would be a horrible precedence. Then we've guarnanteed continued Middle-Eastern instability.

 

[Gospel]

The Israeli Jews seem capable of this kind of pragmatism. The Muslims seem unable to.

That's quite surprising. Given that Jordan is a Muslim nation, with a significant Palestinian population as well, and has a peaceful relationship with Israel.

Edit: Egypt is a Muslim country btw.

 

[Gospel]

The choice for the Palestinians is to continually be misrable or just accept that we can't all get what we want. Yeah, it sucks. But sometimes forgiving those we hate is the best thing for our own state of mind.

Granted, but if you've been closely following the situation, it's clear that Israel has continuously engaged in actions against the Palestinians, not allowing enough respite for forgiveness.

 

[DrZoidberg]

The Israeli Jews seem capable of this kind of pragmatism. The Muslims seem unable to.

That's quite surprising. Given that Jordan is a Muslim nation, with a significant Palestinian population as well, and has a peaceful relationship with Israel.

Edit: Egypt is a Muslim country btw.

Yes, exactly. So it's possible to learn to live with the knowledge of a prior crime and then get on with living peacefully. Isn't it great when people make an effort to patch things up?

 

[DrZoidberg]

The choice for the Palestinians is to continually be misrable or just accept that we can't all get what we want. Yeah, it sucks. But sometimes forgiving those we hate is the best thing for our own state of mind.

Granted, but if you've been closely following the situation, it's clear that Israel has continuously engaged in actions against the Palestinians, not allowing enough respite for forgiveness.

There's plenty of Palestinians living inside Israel and who are Israeli citizens. Weird, that's not a problem for the Jews of Israel. How do you explain that? Yes, the settlers are dicks. But some people in any group will be assholes.

 

[laughing dog]

The choice for the Palestinians is to continually be misrable or just accept that we can't all get what we want. Yeah, it sucks. But sometimes forgiving those we hate is the best thing for our own state of mind.

Granted, but if you've been closely following the situation, it's clear that Israel has continuously engaged in actions against the Palestinians, not allowing enough respite for forgiveness.

There's plenty of Palestinians living inside Israel and who are Israeli citizens. Weird, that's not a problem for the Jews of Israel. How do you explain that? Yes, the settlers are dicks. But some people in any group will be assholes.

Except it is a problem for many Jews in Israel. Arabic was downgraded as an official language. Gov't programs for Arabs in Israel received less funding per head than the same for Jews. There are plenty of politicians who have made a career of bashing and hating Arabs.

 

[Shadowy Man]

My ex wife is Israeli/Hungarian Jew. I thought Jews were like gentiles until we watched Jewish comedies together. Jews laugh at slightly different places. A much darker sensibility.

She could spot another Jew at a hundred paces. Nailed it every time.

Then there's the saying that Jews need a Jewish therapist and Catholics a Catholic one, because their upbringings are too fucked up to be understood by others.

After being married to her for many years and hanging out with her friends and family, I no longer think Jews are just like "us".

She btw, on the Palestine/Israel conflict said, "I think they both deserve eachother". So in spite of living many years in fear of suicide bombers in Jerusalem, she didn’t pick a side. And that’s a very Jewish attitude. Jews are good at seeing the perspectives of others. Probably because they've been trained by history to.

She also once quipped "at least the Palestinians don't hate us as much as we hate ourselves".

I haven't talked with her for years. I don’t know if her opinions on the conflict changed after the October attack. I suspect so. Many Jews did.

That's where my information comes from.

My ex wife was brutally pragmatic and clear headed. She didn’t give a fuck about religion or ideology. She just wanted to get on with life. A very Jewish attitude. She was also militantly atheistic. She hated all religion with a passion. Also a common attitude among Jews. Hence the saying "two Jews, three opinions ".

Amazing that you could learn so much about such a diverse population of people from just the opinions of a single person.

truly impressive.

 

[Gospel]

The choice for the Palestinians is to continually be misrable or just accept that we can't all get what we want. Yeah, it sucks. But sometimes forgiving those we hate is the best thing for our own state of mind.

Granted, but if you've been closely following the situation, it's clear that Israel has continuously engaged in actions against the Palestinians, not allowing enough respite for forgiveness.

There's plenty of Palestinians living inside Israel and who are Israeli citizens. Weird, that's not a problem for the Jews of Israel. How do you explain that? Yes, the settlers are dicks. But some people in any group will be assholes.

First lead with a false dichotomy by suggesting Palestinians have only two options: be miserable or forgive. Oversimplifying the conflict.

Then appeal to emotion with "Yeah it sucks.. blah blah forgiving is a comforting state of mind wishy washy blah blah.

Then mention Palestinians living inside Israel as if they don't face discrimination and inequality there.

Add a hand wave for the illegal settlers by simply calling them dicks.

To finally finish off with what amounts to "both sides do it so I support Israel".

Cracked that case wide open!

 

[TomC]

Granted, but if you've been closely following the situation, it's clear that Israel has continuously engaged in actions against the Palestinians, not allowing enough respite for forgiveness.

It's also clear that near all the Israeli actions are a response to a violent assault by Islamic people. It's the Islamic terrorists who refuse to allow enough respite for forgiveness.
Tom

 

[Gospel]

So it's possible to learn to live with the knowledge of a prior crime and then get on with living peacefully.

Yet, the existence of illegal settlements and the continuous restriction of vital resources such as water, electricity, food, and fuel are not issues relegated to history; they are very much current. But Hamas gives them the right to do that yah?!

 

[Gospel]

Granted, but if you've been closely following the situation, it's clear that Israel has continuously engaged in actions against the Palestinians, not allowing enough respite for forgiveness.

It's also clear that near all the Israeli actions are a response to a violent assault by Islamic people. It's the Islamic terrorists who refuse to allow enough respite for forgiveness.
Tom

Yeah sure, forcefully displace people and it's their fault for being angry.

 

[TSwizzle]

The UN being UN;

The UN’s international court of justice has ordered Israel to ensure its forces do not commit acts of genocide against Palestinians in Gaza, in a historic decision. In an interim judgment delivered on Friday, the president of the court, Joan Donoghue, said Israel must “take all measures within its power” to prevent acts that fall within the scope of the genocide convention and must ensure “with immediate effect” that its forces do not commit any of the acts covered by the convention. The court stopped short of granting South Africa’s request to order an immediate ceasefire to the war. Donoghue said Israel must “take all measures within its power to prevent” killing Palestinians, causing them serious bodily or mental harm, deliberately inflicting conditions of life calculated to bring about the physical destruction in whole or in part of the Palestinian group, and imposing measures intended to prevent births of Palestinians.

And Teh Gruaniad being Teh Gruaniad;

The ruling is not the final word from the court on whether Israel’s actions amount to genocide, but it provides a strong indication that the judges believe there is a credible risk to Palestinians under the genocide convention.

Teh Gruaniad

 

[TomC]

Yeah sure, forcefully displace people and it's their fault for being angry.

Yes, if the displacement was a result of a violent attack by their fellows.

Has it occurred to you that the huge bulk of Israeli Zionists were forcibly displaced? That shapes the national attitude towards further attacks and attackers?
Tom

 

[Gospel]

Moving forward, another strategy for Israel, following their ineffective approach with Hamas, could be to reconsider the idea of Jordan assuming control over the West Bank, this time including the Gaza Strip in the arrangement. Jordan has historically maintained relative peace at the holy sites, allowing both Christian and Muslim for the most part safe access to Jerusalem. Perhaps this model could be extended to manage the West Bank and Gaza, benefiting Palestinians and Israel as a whole. For this to happen, Israel would need to cease its settlement activities.

 

[DrZoidberg]

So it's possible to learn to live with the knowledge of a prior crime and then get on with living peacefully.

Yet, the existence of illegal settlements and the continuous restriction of vital resources such as water, electricity, food, and fuel are not issues relegated to history; they are very much current. But Hamas gives them the right to do that yah?!

Hammas is the problem. The Palestian leadership is corrupt as fuck. But when Palestinians got to vote, they picked beligerent assholes. Then this is what happens.

When Hammas was in power they wrecked the Gaza economic infrastructure, originally built by Jews, and just handed over when Gaza got autonomy. Hammas is most of the problem. Its like someone keeps complaining about being homeless, but each time they get a house they burn it down. Who's fault is that? Israel has been so nice to these people. So nice