Harris Trump debate

[Tigers!]

It’s a BONUS.

Meanwhile, bilby is checking up on Swift's itinerary in Australia.

I drove a shuttle bus to get fans to and from the stadium when she played in Brisbane; I am waiting for my bonus money...

Driving all those banana benders around isn't a bonus in itself?

 

[Politesse]

Ok, so what is your actual plan? Let MAGA run the country? Are you spoiling for an armed revolution?

Absurd.

Are you really so far gone that you think any criticism at all of your preferred candidate is the equivalent of armed rebellion against the state? Fuck, man. You should not be so quick to give up your rights as a citizen. But I have never advocated for any form of armed conflict, nor ever will, and I take considerable offense at the suggestion that I might.

No, I’m just not sure of the plan of those who, when confronted with the absolute reality of our next POTUS being Harris or Trump complain about..,,Harris.

I get being disappointed, angry—bitterly so! that none of the choices are acceptable to you. That’s been multiple election cycles for me. And I learned a bitter truth: voting third party hands the victory to the worst of the major party candidates. Never mind that my one little vote alone didn’t mean we ended up with Bush ( either), for example:: but I’ve lived long enough to know I’m not close to unique. If I think a certain way, there anre others who do as well. Also that I don’t control anyone’s actions except my own so really typing this out is just pissing in the wind. But I feel it is my absolute duty to ma

I thought there was no way that Trump could win in 2016. Every time he opened his mouth I was more convinced that Hillary could take him with one arm tied behind her back. I had extremely mixed feelings about Hillary, period but also as POTUS. But given the choice: Hillary it had to be. And wasn’t because a lot of people thought they could safely vote third party —and Hillary would still win and they could make their point, too. A la mode and with extra frosting,

I see the stakes as so very incredibly high that it literally gives me massive anxiety when I talk with ( read posts by) intelligent, informed thinking people who…just may not vote for Harris. And a very small part of me thinks that at least some people are more critical of Harris because she’s a woman.

I apologize if my anxieties over the future get in the way of simply accepting your criticism of the only sane choice.

I've not advocated voting for Trump. But holding Harris above any criticism is taking things way the hell too far, and she has done nothing to deserve such loyalty.

 

[southernhybrid]

If Dick Cheney has seen the light, maybe there is hope.

Dick Cheney's decision to endorse Harris instead of Trump shows Cheney thinks Harris would drop more bombs than Trump would. It's as simple as that.

If Dick Cheney endorsed someone I supported, it would make me lose support for that person. If I were running and Dick Cheney endorsed me, I would drop out of the race.

I know that he is or was a horrible man, but people can change, especially as they age and realize they've made terrible mistakes in the past, so regardless of his horrible past, I think it's positive that even someone like Cheney can realize that the current Republican candidate is a dire threat to the country.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if his kind, thoughtful daughter, who's policies I don't support, influenced her father to support Harris. I read the book that Liz wrote about how the two parties investigated Trump, and how considerate they were to each other, regardless of their different political views. That's the way it should be. We are all humans, which I consider to be the most flawed species on the planet, but when we work together and even find value in compromise, that's a good thing, imo.

 

[ideologyhunter]

A

If Dick Cheney has seen the light, maybe there is hope.

Dick Cheney's decision to endorse Harris instead of Trump shows Cheney thinks Harris would drop more bombs than Trump would. It's as simple as that.

If Dick Cheney endorsed someone I supported, it would make me lose support for that person. If I were running and Dick Cheney endorsed me, I would drop out of the race.

I know that he is or was a horrible man, but people can change, especially as they age and realize they've made terrible mistakes in the past, so regardless of his horrible past, I think it's positive that even someone like Cheney can realize that the current Republican candidate is a dire threat to the country.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if his kind, thoughtful daughter, who's policies I don't support, influenced her father to support Harris. I read the book that Liz wrote about how the two parties investigated Trump, and how considerate they were to each other, regardless of their different political views. That's the way it should be. We are all humans, which I consider to be the most flawed species on the planet, but when we work together and even find value in compromise, that's a good thing, imo.

Agree, and it's also true about Mitt Romney and (at least some of the time) George Will. And Mona Charen...Good God, she takes a four foot paddle to Trump's ass in every column. Contrast that with George W. Bush, who has abdicated any sense of leadership and duty to the nation, and wants only to chuckle as he recedes over the horizon.

 

[Ford]

Abortion and immigration are two issues that Republicans can reliably run on which is why they will never vote to actually make progress on either issue.

That's what we all used to say about Roe v Wade.

It's what my liberal "friends" say now about Trump's promise to outdo Operation Wetback for numbers his first year in office. Or the SCOTUS' clearly outlined plan to re-criminalize sodomy. Or anything Harris says about "working across the aisle" to create plans and bills the growing fascist wing will feel "comfortable" supporting.

I'm sorry, but it is neither right nor safe to pretend that the Center is the Left as the Trumpists drag that center steadily toward authoritarian nationalism. Nor is it right or safe to pretend I believe that Harris opposing Trump as a person and political opponent is the same thing as opposing his ideals and the policies those ideals led him to put into place. It isn't, she doesn't, they aren't, and most Americans are in considerable danger right now. Whether it is by the quick blade of the Fremen or the slow blade of the Atreides/Harkonnens, we cannot allow ourselves to be lulled into complacency by the image alone of a tall energy woman putting Hollywood Hitler in his place. It was fun to watch for a night. I certainly don't want Trump to win. But I am not counting on a president to come save me from the neighbors, and certainly not either of these two.

Ok, so what is your actual plan? Let MAGA run the country? Are you spoiling for an armed revolution? A bunch of us are old enough to remember some pretty nasty times, including times people we might have agreed with on principal engaged in actual violent crimes. Those were not happy days.

I was all in on Elizabeth Warren. I’ve been surprised at how much Biden has accomplished under the circumstances. Sure, I’d love to see more progress on climate change, abortion rights codified, equal rights for all, including women, something that has not been passed despite being on deck for my entire adult life, marriage equality, and more. I’d love to see sane immigration laws, the end to racism, sexism and homophobia.

I do not want to see armed conflict. Not here, not anywhere.

You could almost copy and paste conversations with Pyramidhead here. I would say most here want what you want. Want what Politesse wants. But with age comes pragmatism. We learn that all or nothing begets nothing. For example, we took the watered-down ACA because it was the best we could get at the time. It survives today. It has cut the number of uninsured in half. It is estimated it has saved tens if not hundreds of thousands of lives to date. It is pretty well rooted now.
There is a place for hard left voices. They remind us of our ultimate goals, the idealism of youth. Some hang onto it well into adulthood. That's okay.

It is worth noting that while the Democrats have cleaved to the center and leaned (and continue to lean) on "compromise to get part of the things we want" for some time now, that path is running out of road. While the Democrats have been doing that, the Republicans have been doing the opposite. The 90s were the beginning with Newt and the endless investigations into Clinton/gumming up the works, it continued with the "party of no" thing during the Obama years (coupled with the rise of the Tea Party faction), but then 2016 came along and accelerated everything...in some cases even farther and faster than the Republicans themselves expected.

Trump wasn't what the leadership wanted. They wanted a Jeb! or a Paul Ryan type to continue the steady march towards their ideal Republican society...with billionaires and corporations running the show and the government using it's power to keep the "others" under strict control. Gilead-Lite if you will. Then Trump smashed all the dishes in the China shop and the GOP didn't quite know what to do with him. Then they remembered "oh that's right...we've got all the racists, bigots, and radical right wing militia types on our side," and shifted to follow Trump's lead of pandering to the most radical elements of the voter base. The white folks who never quite got over the whole Civil Rights thing. The evangelicals who were pissed off that there's more gay people in the sitcoms they don't watch. Then of course there's the Christian Nationalists (and I realize there's some overlap between all of these groups) who don't want to settle for Gilead-Lite. Then Roe was overturned...which had always been a "just out of reach" dream...and the party went "fuck it, we'll go as far right as we can...just don't bring out the brown shirts...yet."

And yes, there are still "moderates" within the party, but they've completely lost control of the GOP. Had Trump never been mocked by Obama at that dinner and decided to live out his days golfing and banging porn stars, by this time Liz Cheney might very well be a leading candidate for the GOP nod for President. Now she's essentially kicked out of her own party and is endorsing a Democrat. So I think right now the answer for the Democrats is to hold that center, accept whatever help the disaffected Republicans can offer, and crush Trump in a victory so sweeping the GOP realizes that MAGA is going to be the death of them.

Unfortunately - according to current polling at least - the election is shaping up to be something less than a landslide for Harris, if it's even a win at all. She'll take the popular vote, but everything else is a crap shoot.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Thought so. That profitability relies on government subsidies. That's because, as you can see from the map, Finland, especially northern Finland, does not get that much solar energy input compared to most other places.
Anyway, what is the payback time in Finland these days?

I live in Bulgaria nowadays.
I do not know the profit/subsidiaries in Finland. Anyway, a governmental study showed some years ago that with the newest tech it is profitable. I have a friend living at the Polar Circle and he has built a system and he says that it works, but in the middle of winter, he needs some additional electricity source. He is "a propeller-hat" - that helps I think.

Here in Bulgaria - too much sun in the summer - no subsidies.

Note that even if you aren't paid anything at installation there can be subsidies in the form of utilities being expected to buy back power at a rate above it's true value.

 

[southernhybrid]

Has anyone mentioned that the woman who started the false rumor about immigrants eating cats has apologized?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/s...-by-trump-admits-claims-are-false/ar-AA1qAyYY

I can't copy the information in the link for some reason, but she also said she's mixed race and a member of the LBGTQ community and was given some misinformation about a cat hanging from a tree in a neighbor's yard. She never thought this would escalate like it did etc.

So, who thinks Trump and his idiots will stop spreading these lies? Call me highly skeptical.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Has anyone mentioned that the woman who started the false rumor about immigrants eating cats has apologized?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/s...-by-trump-admits-claims-are-false/ar-AA1qAyYY

I can't copy the information in the link for some reason, but she also said she's mixed race and a member of the LBGTQ community and was given some misinformation about a cat hanging from a tree in a neighbor's yard. She never thought this would escalate like it did etc.

So, who thinks Trump and his idiots will stop spreading these lies? Call me highly skeptical.

But Trump saw it on TV!!11!!

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

If Dick Cheney has seen the light, maybe there is hope.

Dick Cheney's decision to endorse Harris instead of Trump shows Cheney thinks Harris would drop more bombs than Trump would. It's as simple as that.

If Dick Cheney endorsed someone I supported, it would make me lose support for that person. If I were running and Dick Cheney endorsed me, I would drop out of the race.

I know that he is or was a horrible man, but people can change, especially as they age and realize they've made terrible mistakes in the past, so regardless of his horrible past, I think it's positive that even someone like Cheney can realize that the current Republican candidate is a dire threat to the country.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if his kind, thoughtful daughter, who's policies I don't support, influenced her father to support Harris. I read the book that Liz wrote about how the two parties investigated Trump, and how considerate they were to each other, regardless of their different political views. That's the way it should be. We are all humans, which I consider to be the most flawed species on the planet, but when we work together and even find value in compromise, that's a good thing, imo.

You know he is a horrible man, and you're hoping he has changed so that you can think of the endorsement in a good light. Dick Cheney is interested in war, bombs, killing, destruction, and defense industry profits. That's who he is. Saying he changed as he aged makes sense for someone going from 20 to 40, not for someone Cheney's age.

Cheney realizes that the current Republican candidate is a dire threat to the defense industry's bottom line, and even worse, there may be poor brown kids who will live instead of die. I think those kids living is a good thing, Cheney thinks it is a bad thing.

 

[pood]

I've not advocated voting for Trump. But holding Harris above any criticism is taking things way the hell too far, and she has done nothing to deserve such loyalty.

Who is suggesting holding her above any criticism? What I think is let’s get her elected first, and then see what she does, as opposed to what she says, because the alternative is unthinkable.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

If Dick Cheney has seen the light, maybe there is hope.

Dick Cheney's decision to endorse Harris instead of Trump shows Cheney thinks Harris would drop more bombs than Trump would. It's as simple as that.

If Dick Cheney endorsed someone I supported, it would make me lose support for that person. If I were running and Dick Cheney endorsed me, I would drop out of the race.

Cheney’s endorsement it a lie just like when the Koch’s fake endorsed Hillary and for the same reasons. Strengthen the narrative that Trump is anti establishment while knowing that all Republicans will vote Trump. Have to keep the RFK type people on side so that the Heritage Foundation and Heartland Institute can continue with their plans.

So everything is a giant conspiracy? Are the Illuminati involved? Or is it Reptilians?

 

[Colonel Sanders]

Ok, so what is your actual plan? Let MAGA run the country? Are you spoiling for an armed revolution?

Absurd.

Are you really so far gone that you think any criticism at all of your preferred candidate is the equivalent of armed rebellion against the state? Fuck, man. You should not be so quick to give up your rights as a citizen. But I have never advocated for any form of armed conflict, nor ever will, and I take considerable offense at the suggestion that I might.

It's clear you don't want any of those things. I agree with you that criticism of any candidate should be on the table. However, and I know you're in California, so your third party vote won't make a difference, but there are people like you in swing states that helped Trump win in 2016.

This election is about tyranny or slower progress than you'd like. Non-tyranny is the only option we have. We have a disgustingly staid two party system and it's not going to change in your or my lifetime. However, if the Dems can stay in office long enough, we can eventually rid ourselves of this current SCOTUS and move forward.

A POTUS can't be held accountable for any "official" actions anymore. I trust Harris to not abuse that because the Dems have been rigid rule followers who through whatever terms you may choose to describe it, should be a good thing.

Cliches are irritating and often meaningless remarks, but you are indeed letting perfection be the enemy of good. In this case, politics as usual is the good--and the best we can hope for.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

In fact, there ate posters who would call such a suggestion “racist” while taking umbrage at such behavior.

First it was Haitians eating cats in Springfield, OH. Now there are are some who are eating posters.
Dangerous times to be delicious.

Most guys like eating pussy!

 

[Loren Pechtel]

There are also market failures. Like a minority of men (aka "players") being able to bed most of the women in the marketplace because women go for the hottest guys who happily oblige. I know a player like that. He is shuffling a "harem" of 4-5 "girlfriends" at any time, and changes them monthly. Since male:female ratio in the human species is nearly one, that means that 3-4 men are left out of the market at any given time, even if these women jump back into the marketplace right away.

The problem here is that "hotness" isn't the right description. Desirability is more than just looks.

But the fundamental problem remains--those at the top get more, those at the bottom get none.

 

[Ford]

This just in:

We know now that the "Haitians are eating cats and dogs" story came from a woman who posted online that a neighbor's daughter's friend had heard that Haitians were skinning and eating cats in Springfield. The original source has herself said she regrets posting it and now fears for her family's safety. JD Vance picked up on the viral post, amplified it, and that of course led to Trump's rant in the debate.

Now Vance has admitted that he "created" the story. Not that he shared the post and boosted it, but deliberately created the story out of those flimsy origins. Seriously.

“The American media totally ignored this stuff until Donald Trump and I started talking about cat memes,” Vance said. “If I have to create stories so that the American media actually pays attention to the suffering of the American people, then that’s what I’m going to do, Dana, because you guys are completely letting Kamala Harris coast.”


Bash called out Vance over his stunning admission.


“You just said this is a story that you created.”


“Yes!” Vance said.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Your arithmetic is sound as far as 1971, but your statistical analysis, not so much. Your 4-5 acquaintance is doing all of us a favor by occupying some women that would benefit the rest of us very little. The sociosexual scene you have constructed, simply doesn't exist in reality. If you are unable to find a partner for sex with no attachment or obligation, it's not because hot guys have taken more than their fair share. Drawing on my experience, to be blunt, but gentle as possible, it's not a lack of supply. You are doing something wrong.

As a former "hot guy"(references on request), I can assure you, women do not always go for the hottest guys, no matter how obliging. It was like that in the 70s, 80s, 90s, etc.

The problem with this logic is that inherently there must be someone at the bottom of the desirability list. It's simply not possible for that not to be the case.

Like with the job market after the housing collapse. All this crap about trying harder did absolutely nothing about the fact that there were more job seekers than jobs. You look at it and conclude, correctly, that hotness isn't a required attribute. But that doesn't mean there aren't required attributes, just that you failed to identify them.

 

[thebeave]

Your arithmetic is sound as far as 1971, but your statistical analysis, not so much. Your 4-5 acquaintance is doing all of us a favor by occupying some women that would benefit the rest of us very little. The sociosexual scene you have constructed, simply doesn't exist in reality. If you are unable to find a partner for sex with no attachment or obligation, it's not because hot guys have taken more than their fair share. Drawing on my experience, to be blunt, but gentle as possible, it's not a lack of supply. You are doing something wrong.

As a former "hot guy"(references on request), I can assure you, women do not always go for the hottest guys, no matter how obliging. It was like that in the 70s, 80s, 90s, etc.

The problem with this logic is that inherently there must be someone at the bottom of the desirability list. It's simply not possible for that not to be the case.

Like with the job market after the housing collapse. All this crap about trying harder did absolutely nothing about the fact that there were more job seekers than jobs. You look at it and conclude, correctly, that hotness isn't a required attribute. But that doesn't mean there aren't required attributes, just that you failed to identify them.

IIRC, Bronzeage has described himself (at least in his younger days) as "built like a Chippendale dancer". So, he may think the ladies were really after his clean fingernails, tucked in shirt and charm, but it seems likely he is deluding himself.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Harris has been at pains to maintain her "appeal" on the right, even when it means stabbing her left-leaning allies

How old are you? I was sure you’d been through presidential election cycles before.
But apparently you never noticed the ritual race to the center. It’s mandatory participation for anyone hoping to get elected. Most of her left-leaning allies understand that. You’ll be able to thank Trump’s non-participation for his loss when he loses. Experienced left-leanin supporters of Harris generally know it. And they know it’s just venous bleeding, not the arterial flood that Trump promises.

It's not just in running for office. You get the same issue when there's a range of demand and two sources of supply. It is always in a supplier's interest to move towards the other supplier. The demand that comes from beyond will come to them anyway, the only competition is for the demand between the suppliers.

 

[Swammerdami]

If Dick Cheney has seen the light, maybe there is hope.

Dick Cheney's decision to endorse Harris instead of Trump shows Cheney thinks Harris would drop more bombs than Trump would. It's as simple as that.

If Dick Cheney endorsed someone I supported, it would make me lose support for that person. If I were running and Dick Cheney endorsed me, I would drop out of the race.

No matter how evil we think Dick Cheney was, or still is, it remains a fact that even evil men have motives; and intelligent evil men have intelligent (if evil) purposes. It was decades ago that Cheney may have had specific financial goals for his foolish adventure.

The simplistic meme that Cheney cares only about maximizing human tears or bloodshed is too inane to even be called "childish."

 

[Elixir]

It is always in a supplier's interest to move towards the other supplier.

Yes!
“We can do that, and for less.” when referring to a competitor.
Always the best answer, as long as you have a track record. Which is why Dolt45 lies about his track record ad nauseum.
The credibility his bragging lies have produced has landed him in court again and again, enabled him to sucker in and rip off banks (the public) with his 6 bankruptcies, and is in massive debt to Putin. But lies about his nonexistent capability still suck in the rubes. So many buyers, it’s tragic. When he destroys the current economy he will blame it on Harris/Biden/Obama. And when it’s still cratering in ten years he’ll sic the Army on protesters.