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How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

The Ukrainian economy in prat cal terms is gone. Ukraine is gone. Even if Russia immediately withdrew It would be difficult for the Ukrainians to get back to where they were before the invasion.

At this point I am for complete and total isolation of Russia. Theridk is what an unstable Putin may do.
Rebuilding a nation after a war isn't particularly difficult, as long as you have the financial support required.

A defeated Ukraine under Russian dominance probably wouldn't recover for decades, but a victorious Ukraine - particularly one with EU support or even EU membership would absolutely boom economically.

The EU has an explicit policy of funding the less developed member states to bring their infrastructure up to the general EU standard, and Ukraine would certainly see very significant investment were they to join the EU.

Even without EU membership, we are already seeing moves to provide funds to Ukraine from the assets confiscated from Russia and Russian oligarchs, and from frozen Russian bank accounts.

If they can just get the Russian military out of their country, I think they will do fine.
 
If they can just get the Russian military out of their country, I think they will do fine.
Yup. That’s exactly why the Russian military is in their country. Given half a chance they could become a powerhouse economy.
 
*wraps her wings tightly around herself*

So far, Kyiv has held their ground, verifying my prediction. I love that city.

I have a feeling that the Russians are going to overestimate the cost of holding both Odessa and Kherson. I could picture them holding one of those cities for as much as several months, but attempting to hold both of those cities would not come cheap. I think it would just accelerate the eventual fatigue of their troops.

Now, it is possible that Putin could just concentrate his energy on consolidating his foothold in Kherson. If he concetrated his energy on holding just that one city plus his conquests in eastern Ukraine, he might be able to hold those areas long enough to establish strong enough de facto control over the territory that Ukraine would have to let them go upon entering NATO and the European Union. Those organizations would not want to take on contested territory that Ukraine was unable to reclaim control over, and they would not want to bring in Ukraine just for the sake of waging a war to lay claim to those territories. While this might all but guarantee Ukraine as a future NATO and EU member, Russia would also have also control over some strategic territory in the northern Black Sea. This works fine if Russia never intends to to have anything resembling an amicable relationship with the European Union or the United States for the remainder of the century, and while I can imagine better survival strategies than permanently destroying relations with your neighbors, it has advantages from the perspective of military strategy.

If Russia does not eventually narrow their focus, though, then I have a feeling they could lose the territorial gains they have already consolidated in both Crimea and eastern Ukraine. If the people that happen to live in Ukraine are given no alternative but to fight to the finish, then their resolve to preserve their independence and national identity probably outweighs Russian greed considerably. The trouble for Putin is that, once his forces started to turn and run, the Ukrainians would chase, and he would be lucky if they didn't try to march into Moscow and burn it to the ground. If they were lucky, they might let him go back to Russia with his country intact.

Anyhow, Putin has not YET destroyed all possible options that do not end in absolute disaster for himself and his country within his lifetime, but for him to actually get out of this situation with something he could delude himself into calling a win, he would have to narrow his focus and reorient himself toward consolidating whatever territory he can reasonably expect to hold.

I already felt that it was a stretch to expect that Ukraine would be able to hold onto all of their eastern territory, except maybe Mariupol with their famous "Babushka Battalion," but I think that the chances of Putin establishing a permanent foothold in places like Kyiv or Odessa are, to be frank, hilarious. Oh, I have no doubt that he could succeed at making the people in those areas hate Russians more than they already do, but the more that faithful Ukrainians are internally displaced by war, the more they are going to be concentrated in the more resilient parts of the country. I think that the prospects of Ukraine getting Crimea or any appreciable amount of territory in eastern Ukraine back would require Putin severely overplaying his hand (which might happen), and I also think that the prospects of Putin establishing total domination over Ukraine are unlikely as long as western support for Kyiv's government remains strong.
 
Yea, if Russia kills or captures the Ukrainian leader that may be the end of it.
 
Word has it that a nuclear power plant was the scene of shelling and it's on fire. Not sure if that's a serious problem or not.
 
I am in the road and am just not going to watch the videos. Could someone explain to me like I’m 10 years old exactly what Russia’s legitimate security concerns are ( with respect to Ukraine)?
 
Alleged live stream of Ukraine power plant. Not sure if anyone can verify this.


Edit: Mods take this down if not apropriate.
 
Could someone explain to me like I’m 10 years old exactly what Russia’s legitimate security concerns are ( with respect to Ukraine)?
I don’t believe it’s anything more than Ukraine’s potential prosperity under democracy that threatens Putin.
There is obviously no threat to Russia in any other sense.
 
I am in the road and am just not going to watch the videos. Could someone explain to me like I’m 10 years old exactly what Russia’s legitimate security concerns are ( with respect to Ukraine)?
To make a long story short Putin painted through Russian state controlled media Ukraone as a immediate threat to Russia.

He invoked Nazis in Ukraine and Ukraine pursuing nukes.

Despite Russia being a signatory to a treaty that guarantees Ukrainian sovereignty Putin claims Ukraine does not exist as a state. It s a territory historically Russian.

He is a dictator who seeks a return to an imagined glory of the Soviet Union.
 
Now they‘ve attacked Europe’s largest nuke plant and a major fire has broken down. Threatens to realease 10x Chernobyl. This is piss poor operational planning. Russian military is incompetent.
 
Alleged live stream of Ukraine power plant. Not sure if anyone can verify this.


Edit: Mods take this down if not apropriate.

No, this is really serious.

Europe’s largest nuclear power plant on fire after shelling


The reactor that is on fire has nuclear fuel in it, but it was undergoing renovation and not online. There are heightened levels of radiation. Firefighters cannot reach the reactor because of Russians firing on them. This could develop into another major nuclear disaster in Ukraine, but without the resources in place to try to control it.
 
I am in the road and am just not going to watch the videos. Could someone explain to me like I’m 10 years old exactly what Russia’s legitimate security concerns are ( with respect to Ukraine)?
To make a long story short Putin painted through Russian state controlled media Ukraone as a immediate threat to Russia.

He invoked Nazis in Ukraine and Ukraine pursuing nukes.

Despite Russia being a signatory to a treaty that guarantees Ukrainian sovereignty Putin claims Ukraine does not exist as a state. It s a territory historically Russian.

He is a dictator who seeks a return to an imagined glory of the Soviet Union.
Nannh! Not Soviet, but Tsarist Russia.
 
Alleged live stream of Ukraine power plant. Not sure if anyone can verify this.


Edit: Mods take this down if not apropriate.

Yeah, I’d take anything like that with a huge chunk of salt.

Or maybe not. Jebus, there used to be a day that this shit was all lies.
 
*wraps her wings tightly around herself*

So far, Kyiv has held their ground, verifying my prediction. I love that city.

I have a feeling that the Russians are going to overestimate the cost of holding both Odessa and Kherson. I could picture them holding one of those cities for as much as several months, but attempting to hold both of those cities would not come cheap. I think it would just accelerate the eventual fatigue of their troops.
To me it seems there's not much resistance in Kherson. And Russia hasn't even reached Odessa yet. I doubt it would be that much harder, especially when Russia can cut off Ukrainian supply lines like in Mariupol (which is about to fall any moment now).

I stand by my prediction that Russia will occupy the entire southern coast, and either annex the land or temporily turn it into "people's republics" for purging possible remaining pro-Ukrainian citizens.
 
So Putin says everything is going to the plan today. What a fucking idiot. That means all of these hits on apartment buildings were part of the plan. The hit against the nuke plant earlier today was the plan. The plan was to get stalled on the road to Kiev. Thanks for admitting to multiple war crimes you dumb fucker.
 
Are all these videos fake too?
Sorry, can't see them in Russia.

Try these.

video1
video2
video3

I don't deny that russian forces (like any other forces) do on occasion produce collateral damage.

Mostly direct intentional damage.

But that particular video I was talking about is fake.

Yet still no proof from you.
Let's be blunt. barbos could put himself in danger if he saw the truth. Russia is hiding what is occurring in Ukraine for a reason.
I can
Are all these videos fake too?
Sorry, can't see them in Russia.

Try these.

video1
video2
video3

I don't deny that russian forces (like any other forces) do on occasion produce collateral damage.

Mostly direct intentional damage.

But that particular video I was talking about is fake.

Yet still no proof from you.
After you watch and discuss the one I was discussing.
Without proper context and confirmation they are useless.
People post videos/pictures from damn Syria and say it's Ukraine.
And no I don't deny there is a war going on. But amount of fakes aired by your media is astounding.
 
So Putin says everything is going to the plan today. What a fucking idiot. That means all of these hits on apartment buildings were part of the plan.
Did you read what I just said and posted earlier?
Damage done by russian forces is probably 20%. The rest is fake or done by кастрюлеголовые themselves.
 
*wraps her wings tightly around herself*

So far, Kyiv has held their ground, verifying my prediction. I love that city.

I have a feeling that the Russians are going to overestimate the cost of holding both Odessa and Kherson. I could picture them holding one of those cities for as much as several months, but attempting to hold both of those cities would not come cheap. I think it would just accelerate the eventual fatigue of their troops.
To me it seems there's not much resistance in Kherson. And Russia hasn't even reached Odessa yet. I doubt it would be that much harder, especially when Russia can cut off Ukrainian supply lines like in Mariupol (which is about to fall any moment now).

I stand by my prediction that Russia will occupy the entire southern coast, and either annex the land or temporily turn it into "people's republics" for purging possible remaining pro-Ukrainian citizens.
There is still fighting going on in Kherson, and there is only so think the Russian military can be stretched. I think that if they made an attempt on Odessa, they would have to remove forces from either Mariupol or Kherson, and by then, the locals in either Kherson or Mariupol would have had time to organize an effort to reclaim control over their cities while he was attempting to take Odessa. If that did occur, he would have to choose between either diverting some of his forces bound for Odessa to holding either Kherson or Mariupol or else let one of those cities go in favor of Odessa.

Even if he did manage to take Odessa without immediately losing ground in Mariopol or Kherson, holding all three of those cities would put a strain on his forces, and they would eventually start to fatigue. I also doubt he could hold all three of those cities and establish control over Kyiv.

Yes, I know that Putin THINKS that he's going to march into Kyiv and install a pro-Russian jumping jack, but anybody in his government that thinks he's going to get things entirely his way in Ukraine is more delusional than he is. Ukraine has too much international support, and the people of Ukraine have too much fighting spirit.

So far, Putin has gotten away with using the same trick as Napoleon, using easy targets to create a false impression that he can do what he wants with impunity, thereby undermining the morale of the next-weakest city he conquers, but he's reaching a point where his illusion of invincibility is starting to fade.
 
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