How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[aupmanyav]

That influences how the diplomatic game needs to be played.

Yeah, we all play diplomatic games all the time, in politics as well as in life.
Like Canada accusing India of a murder of a Canadian citizen to get the support of 25 Sikh members of the Canadian Parliament, where as the murder was by rival Sikh gang leaders.
Or US supporting Canada by a story about alleged Indian murder attempt of a Sikh separatist who is an American citizen now, accuses India of promoting hatred of minorities or of curtailment of freedom of expression.
No problem, we enjoy these diplomatic games.

 

[aupmanyav]

I don't understand your logic. How did NATO's expansionism lead to the war in Ukraine? Its a defensive pact. How does the destruction in Ukraine benefit NATO?

You are not alone. Discomfiting of an enemy is a win. That Russia has to fight a war is a win for NATO, regardless of what happens to Ukraine.

 

[barbos]

That influences how the diplomatic game needs to be played.

Yeah, we all play diplomatic games all the time, in politics as well as in life.
Like Canada accusing India of a murder of a Canadian citizen to get the support of 25 Sikh members of the Canadian Parliament, where as the murder was by rival Sikh gang leaders.
Or US supporting Canada by a story about alleged Indian murder attempt of a Sikh separatist who is an American citizen now, accuses India of promoting hatred of minorities or of curtailment of freedom of expression.
No problem, we enjoy these diplomatic games.

In Canada you have to do what you have to do to win elections, including applauding to an actual jew/pole killing nazy in Parliament in order to secure support of ukro-canadians who are .... unsurprisingly are descendents of the same WW2 nazis.

 

[Shadowy Man]

The U.S. cut off material to Japan. Including scrap iron and other important commodities. Aviation fuel was no longer allowed to be sent to Japan.

You are correct Cheerful Charlie. That seems the real reason. US was helping the British and Japan had to respond.

Well, clearly that was a bad decision. They should have stuck with the boycott.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I don't understand your logic. How did NATO's expansionism lead to the war in Ukraine? Its a defensive pact. How does the destruction in Ukraine benefit NATO?

You are not alone. Discomfiting of an enemy is a win. That Russia has to fight a war is a win for NATO, regardless of what happens to Ukraine.

If there are many people who can't follow your logic, could perhaps the problem be that your conclusions make no sense?

Russia doesn't have to be an enemy. They could just give up on being an aggressive imperialist nation. Then NATO would longer be needed, and could just go away

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Where do you get such ideas?

Why don't you see what is so obvious?

What is obvious is you have no position. You obviously like Putin, maybe because he sells you lots of cheap oil. You say you wish Ukraine can defeat Russia and reclaim its land. You say Putin was right to invade because NATO blah blah blah. You are very conflicted in what you say and therefore useless to resolving anything.

 

[barbos]

Russia doesn't have to be an enemy. They could just give up on being an aggressive imperialist nation

Oh, we have to be an enemy and "imperialist" nation. You gave us no choice when you created modern Ukraine with all that scum in it.

 

[barbos]

Where do you get such ideas?

Why don't you see what is so obvious?

What is obvious is you have no position. You obviously like Putin, maybe because he sells you lots of cheap oil. You say you wish Ukraine can defeat Russia and reclaim its land. You say Putin was right to invade because NATO blah blah blah. You are very conflicted in what you say and therefore useless to resolving anything.

Trying to rationalize away obvious contradiction?
Not many people support you even here on this forum. In fact, I would hazard to suggest that anyone who supports your position has already posted in this thread.
You and and your neocon overlords are tiny minority even in the west, let alone Global Majority.

 

[Elixir]

JFK would have acted if there was no deal.

That’s probably true. If you can call it a deal. If the Russians hadn’t taken their toys off Fidel’s paradise, Havana and Moscow would have both been at risk, as well as Miami and much of the east coast. India
Would have been ok.

 

[ZiprHead]

If you were Ukrainian you would have a different opinion. Subjugation is not peace and it is not freedom.

If I were a wise Ukrainian, I would talk rather than keep on fighting with Russia. Talking is not accepting subjugation.

In this case it is. What do you think would happen if Ukraine laid down its arms while Russia is still on the offensive?

You seem to be quite naive about Russia's intentions.

 

[barbos]

In this case it is. What do you think would happen if Ukraine laid down its arms while Russia is still on the offensive.

Captured ukro-soldiers seems happy in the captivity. Some ask not to listed for POW exchange.

You seem to be quite naive about Russia's intentions.

And you know so much about Russia's intentions. How so?

 

[ZiprHead]

You seem to be quite naive about Russia's intentions.

And you know so much about Russia's intentions. How so?

I have eyes and ears.

 

[barbos]

You seem to be quite naive about Russia's intentions.

And you know so much about Russia's intentions. How so?

I have eyes and ears.

And I don't?

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

You seem to be quite naive about Russia's intentions.

Maybe. I perceive a complete lack of empathy. All that matters in the end is me. Sure, I want peace but I don't identify with other people and their legitimate struggle for freedom if it threatens my security. Ukraine's resistance threatens my security. Even though I can bring myself to say I want them to be free I still need Putin's oil.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

This is grim.

.....
An average of 1,000 Russian troops a day were killed or wounded in Ukraine in May amid waves of head-on attacks on Ukrainian defenses, US, UK, and other Western intelligence agencies said, according to The New York Times.

UK military intelligence has put the casualty rate at 1,200 a day in May, which it said was the highest reported since the start of the war. It said Russia's total number of killed or wounded since it launched the invasion in February 2022 now stood at around 500,000.
.....

1000 X 365 X 3 = over million in three years at this rate. How long will Russians accept this garbage .

Russia is losing 1,000 soldiers a day in its relentless 'meat grinder' tactics against Ukraine: report

Russian troops are being used in head-on assaults on Ukrainian positions.

www.yahoo.com

 

[barbos]

Maybe. I perceive a complete lack of empathy.

Sure, In response to US/Ukraine ATACMS attack on Sevastopol beach which killed a 2 year old baby among others, Elensky adviser said "People in Crimea are occupants and Ukraine have a right to attack anyone there"
And these people claim Crimea is Ukraine. Square that one.

By the way, fun fact. Sevastopol which IS in Crimea, on the moment of creation of Ukraine in 1991-92 WAS NOT part of Ukraine. Khrushhev left it in Russia. So for the 25 years Ukraine were illegally occupying it. You can argue legal status of Crimea all you want but not Sevastopol, it was not in Ukraine at the time of USSR dissolution and Russian Federation have never agreed to transfer it to Ukraine.
By the way, Russian Federation have never agreed to transfer whole Crimea to Ukraine either. Khrushchev and presidium did, but according to Constitution at the time Russian Federation had to vote on it, and they never did.

 

[barbos]

An average of 1,000 Russian troops a day were killed or wounded in Ukraine in May amid waves of head-on attacks on Ukrainian defenses, US, UK, and other Western intelligence agencies said, according to The New York Times.

How many times do I have to tell you that Kiev Bobs simply take their own losses numbers and call them russian?
That's very simple algorithm which involves very little thinking.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Russia's human wave attacks are incompetent wastes of life.

 

[laughing dog]

What security alliance are you referring to?

There was no alliance in 2014, but Poroshenko tried to defeat Russian invasion in Crimea by military action rather than talks. Ukraine pays the price.
That is poor diplomacy.
"His presidency was distilled into a three-word slogan, employed by both supporters and opponents: armiia, mova, vira (military, language, faith)."

Petro Poroshenko - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So you referred to a nonexistent security alliance because….?

 

[laughing dog]

Where do you get such ideas?

Why don't you see what is so obvious?

Seeing the obvious prompted my question because your position is based on delusional history. The notion that NATO wants war is bonkers.