How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[steve_bank]

More lkey Russia set up dummy companies and got the parts from European distributes. A common way to get around export restrictions.

Yes, but that's very recent development.

Barbos, what is it exactly that you are defending here on the forum? You defend Putin who uis a dictator.

You do realize that by attacking Putin you confirm everything what Russian side says?

You say you went to school over here, but you do not understand the west and the USA.

We are critical of government, politicians, and our presidents. Just look at the politics forum here.

We criticize Putin because he is an abhorrent genocidal irrational person who by his own words says he wants to eradicate Ukraine culture.

If you watched global news you would know many over here have the same view of Netanyahu for his war on Gaza, I am one of them.

The right to criticize and openly oppose government policy is protected by law in western liberal democracies.

Anti west anger and blaming the west for its troubles has been a basic Russian principle going back to the start of the Soviet Union.

Putin has declared a state of emergency over the incursion. Utter Russian military and intelligence incompetence.

Both Putin and Netanyahu can not back down, it would mean the end of their political power. So the carnage in Gaza and Ukraine continues.

Considering what Russia and Jews exercised in WWII I'd think they would have some compassion, tolerance, and empathy but apparent not.

Maybe we are seeing the truth of both cultures.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

214,000 missing Russian soldiers

The Russian Defense Ministry announced in December that there were 640,000 soldiers serving under contract.

But citing data from Russian federal budget expenditures, Important Stories and CIT said only 426,000 Russians had received a one-time payment for signing a contract during the period from autumn 2022 to April 2024.

According to the outlets, this leaves a discrepancy of around 214,000 which cannot be accounted for by variations in how one-time payments are given out.

Did the money just get siphoned away owing to the corruption that permeates Russia? Did 214,000 recruits not get their money? Are there 214,000 dead soldiers and this fact is being concealed? Are Russian bureaucrats simply incompetent?

 

[SLD]

Here is a map of every country that has actually occupied a part of another nuclear armed state.

 

[pood]

Ukrainian forces should just march on Moscow and see what happens. The last time that renegade with his mercenaries began to march on Moscow, Adolf Putin fled north to St. Petersburg with his tail between his legs like the scared kitten he actually is. Then the renegade inexplicably called off the March. If Ukraine were to announce it was aiming right at Moscow the whole demoralized Russian armed forces and indeed the whole government might fold like a cheap tent.

 

[SLD]

Ukrainian forces should just march on Moscow and see what happens. The last time that renegade with his mercenaries began to march on Moscow, Adolf Putin fled north to St. Petersburg with his tail between his legs like the scared kitten he actually is. Then the renegade inexplicably called off the March. If Ukraine were to announce it was aiming right at Moscow the whole demoralized Russian armed forces and indeed the whole government might fold like a cheap tent.

They might join them. Especially if the messaging is right.

 

[pood]

They might join them. Especially if the messaging is right.

They mignt indeed. It’s clear the vast majority of Russian conscripts do not want to be in Ukraine.

 

[Gospel]

Ukrainian forces should just march on Moscow and see what happens. The last time that renegade with his mercenaries began to march on Moscow, Adolf Putin fled north to St. Petersburg with his tail between his legs like the scared kitten he actually is. Then the renegade inexplicably called off the March. If Ukraine were to announce it was aiming right at Moscow the whole demoralized Russian armed forces and indeed the whole government might fold like a cheap tent.

They might join them. Especially if the messaging is right.

You get your mother back & we keep Ukraine!

 

[Henry-Finland]

Yes, Barbos, tell us once again how a nazi leads Ukraine, that is a Jew and whose mother language is Russian.
And how the Russian language is forbidden in Ukraine.

214,000 missing Russian soldiers

The Russian Defense Ministry announced in December that there were 640,000 soldiers serving under contract.

But citing data from Russian federal budget expenditures, Important Stories and CIT said only 426,000 Russians had received a one-time payment for signing a contract during the period from autumn 2022 to April 2024.

According to the outlets, this leaves a discrepancy of around 214,000 which cannot be accounted for by variations in how one-time payments are given out.

Did the money just get siphoned away owing to the corruption that permeates Russia? Did 214,000 recruits not get their money? Are there 214,000 dead soldiers and this fact is being concealed? Are Russian bureaucrats simply incompetent?

It is said that the ratio is:
- 1/3 dies in a war (depending on how much of the war are attacks.
- 2/3 are wounded.

Russia has lost some 600.000* of which 200.000 have probably died.
- Lots of the money has been stolen is told by many Russian soldiers in many videos. And the dead are not able to tell anything.

* within August 2024

The main problem for Russia is that the wounded soldiers who come home tell the truth about their "Excellent" army.

 

[Elixir]

You are welcome to your (one-sided) views.

As are you. But please don’t lose your shit when your one-sided views are criticized as such.
Yes, my views are most definitely one sided. The side against tyranny, dictatorship and expansionist violence.

 

[ZiprHead]

Amazing what an empty belly and a lack of ammunition will make a soldier do.

Are you suggesting the purpose of this ukrainian raid into pre 2014 Russia was to get some food and ammunition?

Yeah, that's exactly what I mean.

 

[bilby]

If Ukraine were to announce it was aiming right at Moscow the whole demoralized Russian armed forces and indeed the whole government might fold like a cheap tent.

"Now is the winter of our discount tents..."

 

[aupmanyav]

But please don’t lose your shit when your one-sided views are criticized as such.
They side against tyranny, dictatorship and expansionist violence.

I have never worried about criticism. I welcome that.
They don't. You do not take US and NATO expansionism in the count (territory or influence).

 

[Elixir]

You do not take US and NATO expansionism in the count (territorial or influence).

Those two things are not alike.

 

[ZiprHead]

But please don’t lose your shit when your one-sided views are criticized as such.
They side against tyranny, dictatorship and expansionist violence.

I have never worried about criticism. I welcome that.
They don't. You do not take US and NATO expansionism in the count (territorial or influence). Like not accepting Maduro in Venezuela.

There was no NATO expansionism prior to 2014

 

[Elixir]

But please don’t lose your shit when your one-sided views are criticized as such.
They side against tyranny, dictatorship and expansionist violence.

I have never worried about criticism. I welcome that.
They don't. You do not take US and NATO expansionism in the count (territorial or influence). Like not accepting Maduro in Venezuela.

There was no NATO expansionism prior to 2014

But there WAS Russian expansion.

 

[bilby]

As are you. But please don’t lose your shit when your one-sided views are criticized as such.
Yes, my views are most definitely one sided. The side against tyranny, dictatorship and expansionist violence.

You do not take US and NATO expansionism in the count (territorial or influence).

Those two things are not alike.

And NATO has not done violence in pursuit of either.

 

[barbos]

Amazing what an empty belly and a lack of ammunition will make a soldier do.

Are you suggesting the purpose of this ukrainian raid into pre 2014 Russia was to get some food and ammunition?

Yeah, that's exactly what I mean.

OK, I just made sure I understood you correctly.

 

[barbos]

But please don’t lose your shit when your one-sided views are criticized as such.
They side against tyranny, dictatorship and expansionist violence.

I have never worried about criticism. I welcome that.
They don't. You do not take US and NATO expansionism in the count (territorial or influence). Like not accepting Maduro in Venezuela.

There was no NATO expansionism prior to 2014

Really?

 

[barbos]

You say you went to school over here, but you do not understand the west and the USA.

Says who? I understand the west and the USA perfectly.

We are critical of government, politicians, and our presidents.

Well, I am even more critical of your government, politicians, and your presidents.

The right to criticize and openly oppose government policy is protected by law in western liberal democracies.

Great, does not make your government policies any better though.

It just make your "government" more immune to criticism. And Julian Assange, Edward Snowden and even Scott Ritter have something to say about that anyway.

Anti west anger and blaming the west for its troubles has been a basic Russian principle going back to the start of the Soviet Union.

It has, but funny thing is, they have been right, we now know that. All the shit soviet propaganda said you had done you actually did.

Putin has declared a state of emergency over the incursion. Utter Russian military and intelligence incompetence.

Great, not sure what your point is, but great. Do you know what ukrainian army and pro-ukrainian circles in and out of Ukraine say about that latest stunt?

 

[steve_bank]

NATO is a voluntary association for mutual defense.

No one coerced Ukraine to ally with the Europeans or open negotiations to join NATO. There are political requirements to join NATO.

Antithetical to Russia and China.

https://1997-2001.state.gov/regions/eur/fs_members.html

NATO membership is potentially open to all of Europe's emerging democracies that share the alliance's values and are ready to meet the obligations of membership.

There is no checklist for membership.

We have made clear that, at a minimum, candidates for membership must meet the following five requirements:

--New members must uphold democracy, including tolerating diversity.

--New members must be making progress toward a market economy.

--Their military forces must be under firm civilian control.

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_49212.htm

NATO's "open door policy" is based on Article 10 of its founding treaty. Any decision to invite a country to join the Alliance is taken by the North Atlantic Council on the basis of consensus among all Allies. No third country has a say in such deliberations.

NATO's ongoing enlargement process poses no threat to any country. It is aimed at promoting stability and cooperation, at building a Europe whole and free, united in peace, democracy and common values.

At the 2008 Bucharest Summit, the Allies agreed that Georgia and Ukraine will become members of NATO in future.

Bosnia and Herzegovina was invited to join the Membership Action Plan (MAP) in April 2010.
Following Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February 2022, the Finnish and Swedish ambassadors to NATO simultaneously conveyed the intent of their respective countries to join the Alliance by submitting official letters of application to NATO on 18 May. They completed accession talks on 4 July, and their Accession Protocols were signed by Allies on 5 July. Thereafter, once NATO countries had ratified the Accession Protocols according to their national procedures, Finland and Sweden became full members of the Alliance on 4 April 2023 and 7 March 2024, respectively

NATO members.

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_52044.htm