Immigrant Concentration Camps

[Angry Floof]

Teens taking care of toddlers, children eating uncooked food, and an outbreak of the flu: Lawyers report dire conditions at a Texas Border Patrol station where migrant children are being held

You're not fooling yourself, never mind anyone else, with your clownish conflating of the general term 'concentration camp' with the very specific class of concentration camps in which the Third Reich carried out mass killings.

You don't get to say 'our concentration camps are not the worst possible kind, so therefore they are not concentration camps'; Nor do you get to conclude '... so therefore they are not an horrific abuse of human rights'.

At least, not without being utterly inhumane. Boring, middle class, decent, uncaring inhumanity was, however, a vital component of the descent into genocide of the Third Reich.

Your nation is standing on the edge, staring into the abyss. And your attitude that it's quite OK because you haven't yet plummeted over the edge, is exactly the complacency on which the NSDAP relied.

You need to stop assuming that everything is fine, and start taking the bare minimum steps to find out whether it's in fact NOT fine at all. Because history will judge the complacent very harshly.

Trausti and his ilk need to have things get to that extreme point and only then would they entertain this crazy liberal idea of empathy and humane treatment of their fellow human beings. Actual questioning of corrupt powers, holding them accountable, and putting a stop to their abuses is out of the question. Others will have to do that part.

 

[angelo]

The perfect solution is to send them all to the welcoming open arms of Canada!

https://gellerreport.com/2019/06/selling-the-hijrah-in-canada.html/

 

[Patooka]

The perfect solution is to send them all to the welcoming open arms of Canada!

https://gellerreport.com/2019/06/selling-the-hijrah-in-canada.html/

I know you are trying to be sarcastic, but there is growing support in Canada to suspend the Safe Third Country Agreement because the US cannot be trusted with treating asylum seekers humanely.

NDP immigration critic Jenny Kwan says she wants to see Canada fully suspend the agreement because she does not believe the U.S. is safe for asylum-seekers.

"The entire agreement is predicated upon the notion that Canada and the United States have at least comparable, if not equal, policies and procedures around refugee determination," she said.

She pointed to a ruling by U.S attorney general last year saying domestic and gang violence are no longer grounds for asylum in the U.S. She also pointed to U.S. border agents who separated children from their migrant parents when they were detained at the border in mid-2018. Many of those children have still not been returned to their parents.

"This is inhumane treatment that flies in the face of Canadian and International Law on the rights of the child," Kwan said. "The only change that can be made to the STCA that respects the humanity of asylum-seekers and allows Canada to live up to its domestic and international obligations is to suspend the agreement."

Jenny Kwan represents Vancouver East, in case you are wondering.

 

[Jarhyn]

Teens taking care of toddlers, children eating uncooked food, and an outbreak of the flu: Lawyers report dire conditions at a Texas Border Patrol station where migrant children are being held

You're not fooling yourself, never mind anyone else, with your clownish conflating of the general term 'concentration camp' with the very specific class of concentration camps in which the Third Reich carried out mass killings.

You don't get to say 'our concentration camps are not the worst possible kind, so therefore they are not concentration camps'; Nor do you get to conclude '... so therefore they are not an horrific abuse of human rights'.

At least, not without being utterly inhumane. Boring, middle class, decent, uncaring inhumanity was, however, a vital component of the descent into genocide of the Third Reich.

Your nation is standing on the edge, staring into the abyss. And your attitude that it's quite OK because you haven't yet plummeted over the edge, is exactly the complacency on which the NSDAP relied.

You need to stop assuming that everything is fine, and start taking the bare minimum steps to find out whether it's in fact NOT fine at all. Because history will judge the complacent very harshly.

Trausti and his ilk need to have things get to that extreme point and only then would they entertain this crazy liberal idea of empathy and humane treatment of their fellow human beings. Actual questioning of corrupt powers, holding them accountable, and putting a stop to their abuses is out of the question. Others will have to do that part.

I have a feeling that you are wrong about this. Once things get to that point, I expect that they would rather entertain the idea of how they look in brown, with red headware.

 

[PyramidHead]

Speaking of Canada, do those who frame this as an appropriate and neutral response to the law being broken imagine that Canadian immigrants crossing our northern border would be treated the same way?

 

[Angry Floof]

Trump Bets We’ll Stop Caring About Migrant Kids

Well, we won't stop caring, but this does make sense in terms of how Trump and his ilk really operate.

An unempathetic, callous, conscienceless mind has no framework for any other way of being. If they had that human capacity to feel for others, to experience guilt at their own callousness, they would, wouldn't they? So of course people like Trump and his base believe that "the enemy" are the same kind of people and don't really care about others as we claim.

The problem with this very human psychology of expecting others' minds to work in some way like your own is that people who do care and have a conscience and value human life other than their own expect more from right wing authoritarian followers. Just like they have to have tragedy on their own doorstep before they can consider they might have been wrong about something, we also have to witness great atrocity at their hands before it gets through to us that they do not have a moral compass to stop them from doing and supporting all manner of evil.

 

[marc]

So his parents were gassed? They were rounded up in their home country and forcibly brought here? No chance of returning home? No different than what Anne Franke and her family experienced, right?

I think we need a new term. We have “whataboutism” for the frequent arguments using false equivalencies and straw men. Do we need “LessEvilism”, or maybe “NotMurderism” for arguments like this? Concentration camps are ok because we are not killing the kids. The same type of argument was used under Bush to excuse torture because ‘we are not beheading them’. Any atrocity is acceptable as long as they are not (proven to intentionally) killing anyone.

 

[Angry Floof]

So his parents were gassed? They were rounded up in their home country and forcibly brought here? No chance of returning home? No different than what Anne Franke and her family experienced, right?

I think we need a new term. We have “whataboutism” for the frequent arguments using false equivalencies and straw men. Do we need “LessEvilism”, or maybe “NotMurderism” for arguments like this? Concentration camps are ok because we are not killing the kids. The same type of argument was used under Bush to excuse torture because ‘we are not beheading them’. Any atrocity is acceptable as long as they are not (proven to intentionally) killing anyone.

Does "allowing them to die" count as killing them?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...official-pleads-emergency-funding/1508376001/

Five kids have died in border custody since December. Before that, no kids have died in border custody in ten years.

 

[Angry Floof]

What I Saw at the Dilley, Texas, Immigrant Detention Center

Nearly every one of the almost 500 people that I saw in the detention center was sick. There were, at the end of my visit, 15 infants in the center—two children had previously died in government custody, though not in the Dilley facility. The children and their mothers, most of whom had crossed the Rio Grande ten days before, near McAllen, Texas, often bucking strong currents and sand holes, where the water level hovered around their knees, looked for border patrol agents so they could be taken into custody and request asylum.

The agents take them in their wet clothes, at first, to the “hielera,” the “icebox,” a refrigerated building, a large processing center, where they had to try to sleep on the concrete floor or sit on concrete benches under mylar blankets, prodded by agents all night and day, deliberately kept awake. Bathroom breaks are frequently not granted, or not in time, so both women and children often soil themselves.

The prison-like detention was an attempt to persuade these immigrants to turn back before they even reached a credible-fear interview with an asylum officer. It was also a message to those who were still trying to cross the border.

Mothers told me two bologna sandwiches for four days, for a mother and two children, was standard. Sometimes they missed food for a day. Sickness was not treated. The original rules for any confinement was limited to 12 hours, but now it is routine for the families to be kept four or five days, and sometimes a week.

There's more. Anyone human enough to read further?

 

[Angry Floof]

And for anyone using the excuse that things were bad under Obama, which they were, the administration was not purposely abusing them or instituting policies specifically to cause them trauma as a deterrent. Not Obama's or Clinton's or Bush's or any other administration in recent decades at least have behaved as the Trump administration has.

Authoritarians always, always target the most vulnerable first, the easy targets. People with nothing, no home, no nothing, in a strange land, with little or no ties to established citizens, are easy targets to demonize and abuse and then to cover the abuse while crowing to their insane base that they're being protected from this supposed threat.

Last April, that evil little cunt Jeff Sessions proudly announced to the world that they were purposely putting in place a policy to traumatize all immigrants who cross the border as a deterrent. He said this on video. Of course, they also had Melania announce her retarded "be best" bullshit at the same time, which is what Fox viewers got to see. Sessions is on video explaining this very clearly so I don't know how anyone here is unaware of it.

Again, no administration before this has instituted such a policy of purposefully causing trauma to immigrants at the Southern border by taking their children from them. That's specifically a GOP/Trump authoritarian cruelty. Children in custody before Trump were there because either they were unaccompanied as they crossed the border or their parent or guardian was arrested for a particular crime other than simply crossing the border. And they kept track of them. The GOP/Trump border policy turns out to be to not even bother.

 

[marc]

So his parents were gassed? They were rounded up in their home country and forcibly brought here? No chance of returning home? No different than what Anne Franke and her family experienced, right?

I think we need a new term. We have “whataboutism” for the frequent arguments using false equivalencies and straw men. Do we need “LessEvilism”, or maybe “NotMurderism” for arguments like this? Concentration camps are ok because we are not killing the kids. The same type of argument was used under Bush to excuse torture because ‘we are not beheading them’. Any atrocity is acceptable as long as they are not (proven to intentionally) killing anyone.

Does "allowing them to die" count as killing them?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...official-pleads-emergency-funding/1508376001/

Five kids have died in border custody since December. Before that, no kids have died in border custody in ten years.

That is covered under “not (proven to intentionally) kill”. All those people who mysteriously died after receiving ‘enhanced interrogation’, mysterious accidents. All those kids and adults who died in detention centers, must have been in bad health, you know how they all carry diseases.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Speaking of Canada, do those who frame this as an appropriate and neutral response to the law being broken imagine that Canadian immigrants crossing our northern border would be treated the same way?

I remember, long ago, a US senator seriously proposing, as an afterthought, that the US build a wall not just with Mexico but also with Canada. He apparently had no idea whatsoever just how big a wall that would have to be. Canadians in turn laughed about how we tricked Americans into wanting to build a wall to keep them away from crossing over and trying to use our Universal Health Care system.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Are these refugee claimants allowed to leave these camps? Or are they detained?

If the US won't take them in, can't they just turn them away?

 

[Derec]

I remember, long ago, a US senator seriously proposing, as an afterthought, that the US build a wall not just with Mexico but also with Canada. He apparently had no idea whatsoever just how big a wall that would have to be.

Something like this?

The plan was abandoned due to global warming.

Canadians in turn laughed about how we tricked Americans into wanting to build a wall to keep them away from crossing over and trying to use our Universal Health Care system.

Don't you need some sort of id card to receive free care, or do you just treat everybody who shows up?

 

[Derec]

Are these refugee claimants allowed to leave these camps? Or are they detained?

If the US won't take them in, can't they just turn them away?

I am guessing they are free to go if they want to go home. And if these detentions centers are half as bad as AOC et al claim, maybe they should go home.

 

[lpetrich]

I remember, long ago, a US senator seriously proposing, as an afterthought, that the US build a wall not just with Mexico but also with Canada. He apparently had no idea whatsoever just how big a wall that would have to be.

Something like this?

The plan was abandoned due to global warming.

Not a very good kind of wall, because it is hard to live on top of a continental glacier.

 

[Angry Floof]

Thousands of Immigrant Children Said They Were Sexually Abused in U.S. Detention Centers, Report Say

I like how the more oblivious among us just assume these people have the same resources and options as you.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

If the US doesn't want to take them in, why don't they simply turn them back? What right have they to detain them? Or they don't detain them?

 

[Half-Life]

Pretty soon, word is gonna spread to the immigrants how they are "concentration camps" and they won't come anymore. Right? No one wants to voluntarily go to a "concentration camp," especially with their kids.

 

[Arctish]

If the US doesn't want to take them in, why don't they simply turn them back? What right have they to detain them? Or they don't detain them?

The US doesn't have to detain asylum seekers or those seeking to legally immigrate while their applications are being reviewed. The Trump Administration decided to, under harsh conditions, as a deterrent to the 'wrong' sort of people coming to America. We wouldn't be nearly so dickish to Norwegians.