Immigrant Concentration Camps

[angelo]

If you want to be rational, 100,000 refugees in a nation of 327,200,000 is not a crisis.

Exactly. Hell set up FEMA trailers and tent cities like after a hurricane. Way better and more humane than fucking prison/concentration camps and families could stay together.

So the alternative of throwing open the borders to one and all is the solution? Wouldn't that mean the end of nation states?

 

[Patooka]

If you want to be rational, 100,000 refugees in a nation of 327,200,000 is not a crisis.

Exactly. Hell set up FEMA trailers and tent cities like after a hurricane. Way better and more humane than fucking prison/concentration camps and families could stay together.

So the alternative of throwing open the borders to one and all is the solution? Wouldn't that mean the end of nation states?

Yes, because they are the only two options available in your fucked up world of absolutes.
For christ's sake.

 

[Half-Life]

What is wrong with you? In a civilized society, the detaining authority has the moral responsibility to see to the basic needs of those detained. If they are dehydrated, that means hydrating them. If they are sick, that means giving them medical care. And it means feeding them.

When these people arrive at the border, they are near deathly sick. ICE can not work miracles to nurse them all back to health. Period. The right is trying to explain this to the left. The left thinks that after a thousand mile journey, you should be in tip top shape with no problems. That's not how things work.

 

[Angry Floof]

What is wrong with you? In a civilized society, the detaining authority has the moral responsibility to see to the basic needs of those detained. If they are dehydrated, that means hydrating them. If they are sick, that means giving them medical care. And it means feeding them.

When these people arrive at the border, they are near deathly sick. ICE can not work miracles to nurse them all back to health. Period. The right is trying to explain this to the left. The left thinks that after a thousand mile journey, you should be in tip top shape with no problems. That's not how things work.

They could allow people in to help. They could not block access to people who are there to help. That's not how humane treatment works. That's how stunted, inhumane, prejudiced lack of empathy works.

 

[Jarhyn]

What is wrong with you? In a civilized society, the detaining authority has the moral responsibility to see to the basic needs of those detained. If they are dehydrated, that means hydrating them. If they are sick, that means giving them medical care. And it means feeding them.

When these people arrive at the border, they are near deathly sick. ICE can not work miracles to nurse them all back to health. Period. The right is trying to explain this to the left. The left thinks that after a thousand mile journey, you should be in tip top shape with no problems. That's not how things work.

They could allow people in to help. They could not block access to people who are there to help. That's not how humane treatment works. That's how stunted, inhumane, prejudiced lack of empathy works.

You are talking to someone who has repeatedly used genetic fallacies to attack things they don't like, after having had the concept of why such reasoning is invalid explained repeatedly. Either they don't understand or they don't care. I don't know if it's possible to get through to someone like that.

 

[laughing dog]

What is wrong with you? In a civilized society, the detaining authority has the moral responsibility to see to the basic needs of those detained. If they are dehydrated, that means hydrating them. If they are sick, that means giving them medical care. And it means feeding them.

When these people arrive at the border, they are near deathly sick.

Some are in very poor health, others are not.

ICE can not work miracles to nurse them all back to health. Period. The right is trying to explain this to the left. The left thinks that after a thousand mile journey, you should be in tip top shape with no problems. That's not how things work.

No one is expecting miracles from ICE. Just plain human decency. Which apparently is too much to expect from this administration and its supporters.

BTW, why do you feel the need to define every issue as the "right" vs the "left"? I understand the attraction of simplistic explanations, but it obscures the reality. For example, my father is a lifelong Republican. To refer to him as a "leftist" is inane. But he thinks the current ICE operating procedures are inhumane.

 

[Angry Floof]

They could allow people in to help. They could not block access to people who are there to help. That's not how humane treatment works. That's how stunted, inhumane, prejudiced lack of empathy works.

You are talking to someone who has repeatedly used genetic fallacies to attack things they don't like, after having had the concept of why such reasoning is invalid explained repeatedly. Either they don't understand or they don't care. I don't know if it's possible to get through to someone like that.

Probably not, but I'll keep saying it anyway. Half-Life is on the wrong side of history, and he won't be able to say he didn't know.

 

[bilby]

So the alternative of throwing open the borders to one and all is the solution? Wouldn't that mean the end of nation states?

Yes, because they are the only two options available in your fucked up world of absolutes.
For christ's sake.

The US could introduce a new visa class for migrant workers, allowing them to cross the border, but giving them minimal rights once in the USA - that visa could, for example, specify that the children of holders are exempted from US citizenship even if born within the USA.

In fact, this is what MUST happen, because the ONLY alternative is never to allow anyone of any nationality to enter or leave any country ever again. Which would mean the end of international travel and trade. (Hey, if false dichotomies are supposed to be persuasive to us, perhaps they will be actually persuasive to angelo )

 

[Half-Life]

Some are in very poor health, others are not.

ICE can not work miracles to nurse them all back to health. Period. The right is trying to explain this to the left. The left thinks that after a thousand mile journey, you should be in tip top shape with no problems. That's not how things work.

No one is expecting miracles from ICE. Just plain human decency. Which apparently is too much to expect from this administration and its supporters.

BTW, why do you feel the need to define every issue as the "right" vs the "left"? I understand the attraction of simplistic explanations, but it obscures the reality. For example, my father is a lifelong Republican. To refer to him as a "leftist" is inane. But he thinks the current ICE operating procedures are inhumane.

They are trying, but the Dems are refusing to sign the checks to make the places have better beds and better conditions. So, blame the Dems.

 

[laughing dog]

Some are in very poor health, others are not.

ICE can not work miracles to nurse them all back to health. Period. The right is trying to explain this to the left. The left thinks that after a thousand mile journey, you should be in tip top shape with no problems. That's not how things work.

No one is expecting miracles from ICE. Just plain human decency. Which apparently is too much to expect from this administration and its supporters.

BTW, why do you feel the need to define every issue as the "right" vs the "left"? I understand the attraction of simplistic explanations, but it obscures the reality. For example, my father is a lifelong Republican. To refer to him as a "leftist" is inane. But he thinks the current ICE operating procedures are inhumane.

They are trying, but the Dems are refusing to sign the checks to make the places have better beds and better conditions. So, blame the Dems.

You are babbling nonsense. Policy is set by the administration, not Congress.

 

[Jarhyn]

They are trying, but the Dems are refusing to sign the checks to make the places have better beds and better conditions. So, blame the Dems.

You are babbling nonsense. Policy is set by the administration, not Congress.

And what do you know, the administration just wants to use the money to hire more brownshirts and build useless delay devices in a desert that already takes days to cross.

 

[ZiprHead]

Nearly 900 migrants found at Texas facility with 125-person capacity: DHS watchdog

In a report out Friday, the Homeland Security inspector general has found “dangerous overcrowding” and unsanitary conditions at a Customs and Border Protection facility in El Paso, Texas, where hundreds more migrants were being housed than the center was designed to hold.

“Border Patrol agents told us some of the detainees had been held in standing-room-only conditions for days or weeks,” the office of inspector general wrote.

 

[Arctish]

Trump Administration Argues Detained Migrant Children Don't Need Toothbrushes, Soap

The Trump administration went to court this week to argue that migrant children detained at the United States-Mexico border do not require basic hygiene products like soap and toothbrushes in order to be in held in "safe and sanitary" conditions. Trump's team also argued that requiring minors to sleep on cold concrete floors in crowded cells with low temperatures similarly fulfilled that requirement.

Arguing in a 9th district San Francisco court about the conditions that they must hold migrant children in, the administration said that they did not violate a precedent set by a landmark 1985 class action lawsuit which established guidelines for the way minors held in federal immigration detention must be treated. The case, Jenny Lisette Flores v. Edwin Meese, created rules around the timely release of migrant minors to their parents, and said that those not released must be kept in facilities that are "safe and sanitary."

The judges aren't buying it, but it's unconscionable the Administration is even arguing that depriving children of basic hygiene products like toothbrushes and towels, and forcing them to sleep on cold concrete floors with just a foil blanket for bedding, is fulfilling their responsibility to provide adequate care for children in their custody.

 

[Angry Floof]

Asylum Seekers Are Being “Disappeared” in Private Louisiana Jails


Lawyers claim infants, children are in dangerous situation at border detention site

“In my 22 years of doing visits with children in detention I have never heard of this level of inhumanity,” said an attorney representing the detained youth.

 

[Trausti]

It really is horrendous that the US invades other countries and packs these poor people, against their will, onto cattle trains to concentration camps in the USA; denying them food; tattooing numbers on their arms; confiscating all their gold and other jewelry; putting the young and infirm into gas chambers; burning their corpses. We should make full efforts to return these people to their home countries, post haste.

 

[Arctish]

It really is horrendous that the US invades other countries and packs these poor people, against their will, onto cattle trains to concentration camps in the USA; denying them food; tattooing numbers on their arms; confiscating all their gold and other jewelry; putting the young and infirm into gas chambers; burning their corpses. We should make effort to return these people to their home countries, post haste.

I posted this in a different thread but I think it belongs here:

Two years ago I visited the Minidoka Relocation Center. I happened to be there when a man who was interned as a child was also visiting, and I had a chance to talk to him about his experiences. What he described was so much like what is happening to families at our borders that arguing the differences is little more than quibbling.

Internment camps, Relocation centers, Concentration camps, they're just different words for _slightly_ different methods of imprisoning people for the 'crime' of being feared, hated, and unwanted.

BTW:

Japanese American internment Terminology debate

Since the end of World War II, there has been debate over the terminology used to refer to Minidoka, and the other camps in which Americans of Japanese ancestry and their immigrant parents, were incarcerated by the United States Government during the war.[10][11][12] Minidoka has been referred to as a "War Relocation Center," "relocation camp," "relocation center," "internment camp", and "concentration camp", and the controversy over which term is the most accurate and appropriate continues to the present day.

In 1998, use of the term "concentration camps" gained greater credibility prior to the opening of an exhibit about the American camps at Ellis Island. Initially, the American Jewish Committee (AJC) and the National Park Service, which manages Ellis Island, objected to the use of the term in the exhibit.[222] However, during a subsequent meeting held at the offices of the AJC in New York City, leaders representing Japanese Americans and Jewish Americans reached an understanding about the use of the term.[223] After the meeting, the Japanese American National Museum and the AJC issued a joint statement (which was included in the exhibit) that read in part:


"A concentration camp is a place where people are imprisoned not because of any crimes they have committed, but simply because of who they are. Although many groups have been singled out for such persecution throughout history, the term 'concentration camp' was first used at the turn of the [20th] century in the Spanish American and Boer Wars. During World War II, America's concentration camps were clearly distinguishable from Nazi Germany's. Nazi camps were places of torture, barbarous medical experiments and summary executions; some were extermination centers with gas chambers. Six million Jews were slaughtered in the Holocaust. Many others, including Gypsies, Poles, homosexuals and political dissidents were also victims of the Nazi concentration camps. In recent years, concentration camps have existed in the former Soviet Union, Cambodia and Bosnia. Despite differences, all had one thing in common: the people in power removed a minority group from the general population and the rest of society let it happen."

 

[Trausti]

It really is horrendous that the US invades other countries and packs these poor people, against their will, onto cattle trains to concentration camps in the USA; denying them food; tattooing numbers on their arms; confiscating all their gold and other jewelry; putting the young and infirm into gas chambers; burning their corpses. We should make effort to return these people to their home countries, post haste.

I posted this in a different thread but I think it belongs here:

Two years ago I visited the Minidoka Relocation Center. I happened to be there when a man who was interned as a child was also visiting, and I had a chance to talk to him about his experiences. What he described was so much like what is happening to families at our borders that arguing the differences is little more than quibbling.

Internment camps, Relocation centers, Concentration camps, they're just different words for _slightly_ different methods of imprisoning people for the 'crime' of being feared, hated, and unwanted.

So his parents were gassed? They were rounded up in their home country and forcibly brought here? No chance of returning home? No different than what Anne Franke and her family experienced, right?

 

[Ford]

Internment camps, Relocation centers, Concentration camps, they're just different words for _slightly_ different methods of imprisoning people for the 'crime' of being feared, hated, and unwanted.

Correction: The "crime" of doing exactly what we told them to do.

With regards to the asylum seekers, we have laws on the books that say if you come here seeking asylum, you're not an "illegal immigrant." You're supposed to be welcomed, protected, and have your case adjudicated.

With regards to migrant labor, we for all intents and purposes hang a giant sign outside the country that says "if you can get in, you get a job." Hundreds of millions of dollars are spent every year on "illegal immigrants" who come here looking for work, and while ICE and the Border Patrol do turn people away, the government does absolutely nothing to the companies that hire the ones that stay.

MAGA morons insist that the camps are justified to deal with the "invasion" of migrants, but the truth is there's no invasion at all. Invaders are unwelcome. These people are not.

 

[Arctish]

It really is horrendous that the US invades other countries and packs these poor people, against their will, onto cattle trains to concentration camps in the USA; denying them food; tattooing numbers on their arms; confiscating all their gold and other jewelry; putting the young and infirm into gas chambers; burning their corpses. We should make effort to return these people to their home countries, post haste.

I posted this in a different thread but I think it belongs here:

Two years ago I visited the Minidoka Relocation Center. I happened to be there when a man who was interned as a child was also visiting, and I had a chance to talk to him about his experiences. What he described was so much like what is happening to families at our borders that arguing the differences is little more than quibbling.

Internment camps, Relocation centers, Concentration camps, they're just different words for _slightly_ different methods of imprisoning people for the 'crime' of being feared, hated, and unwanted.

So his parents were gassed? They were rounded up in their home country and forcibly brought here? No chance of returning home? No different than what Anne Franke and her family experienced, right?

I don't believe you're this stupid, Trausti, so either stop playing the Moron card or do a better job of convincing me.

 

[bilby]

It really is horrendous that the US invades other countries and packs these poor people, against their will, onto cattle trains to concentration camps in the USA; denying them food; tattooing numbers on their arms; confiscating all their gold and other jewelry; putting the young and infirm into gas chambers; burning their corpses. We should make effort to return these people to their home countries, post haste.

I posted this in a different thread but I think it belongs here:

Two years ago I visited the Minidoka Relocation Center. I happened to be there when a man who was interned as a child was also visiting, and I had a chance to talk to him about his experiences. What he described was so much like what is happening to families at our borders that arguing the differences is little more than quibbling.

Internment camps, Relocation centers, Concentration camps, they're just different words for _slightly_ different methods of imprisoning people for the 'crime' of being feared, hated, and unwanted.

So his parents were gassed? They were rounded up in their home country and forcibly brought here? No chance of returning home? No different than what Anne Franke and her family experienced, right?

You're not fooling yourself, never mind anyone else, with your clownish conflating of the general term 'concentration camp' with the very specific class of concentration camps in which the Third Reich carried out mass killings.

You don't get to say 'our concentration camps are not the worst possible kind, so therefore they are not concentration camps'; Nor do you get to conclude '... so therefore they are not an horrific abuse of human rights'.

At least, not without being utterly inhumane. Boring, middle class, decent, uncaring inhumanity was, however, a vital component of the descent into genocide of the Third Reich.

Your nation is standing on the edge, staring into the abyss. And your attitude that it's quite OK because you haven't yet plummeted over the edge, is exactly the complacency on which the NSDAP relied.

You need to stop assuming that everything is fine, and start taking the bare minimum steps to find out whether it's in fact NOT fine at all. Because history will judge the complacent very harshly.