#IStandWithAhmed (or Inventing While Muslim is a thing?)

[Metaphor]

It wasn't a tu quoque fallacy; pointing out that school administration in America is psychotic everywhere is not an attack on conservatives or a defense of liberals.

This article talks about others:



“Little Boy Suspended for Pointing Finger Like a Laser Gun.”
“School Suspends Kid for Twirling Pencil & Subjects him to 5-HOUR Evaluation!”
“Kid Twirls a Pencil in Class, N.J. Threatens to Take Him From His Dad and Requires Blood and Urine Testing.”
“Girl Writes About Pot in Her Diary, School Reads It and Suspends Her All Year.”
“Felony weapons charge for student who brought fishing supplies to school.”
“Hearing Examiner: School Was Right to Suspend Little Boy Who Chewed Pop-Tart Into Shape of Gun.”
“Toy gun made of paper gets kid tossed from school.”
“Drawing of Cartoon Bomb Gets Middle School Student Suspended in South Carolina.”

Only in America could you suspend a child for pointing his fingers into a fake weapon and making a 'pew-pew' laser sound, whilst the parents that picked him up from school could be carrying a rifle or shotgun on them.

And I am so gals we only have one school and one school administration in America so we don't have to make sweeping generalizations.

"School administration" was not meant to be the plural of a single 'school administration', but a general term for the administration of schools.

But instead of playing some kind of weird gotcha with me, are you denying that there is something deeply wrong with a school system that not only allows the above cases to happen but continues to defend them? And the fact that it happens in multiple states and keeps happening is surely a sign of how ubiquitous it is.

(And note that most people whose kids get suspended would never report it to the media).

 

[Axulus]

This is somewhat relevant:

Here is a letter I wrote to principal of my son’s high school:

Dear Principal _____,

Thank you for requesting feedback about the installation of interior cameras at the high school. I am against the use of cameras. I visited the school recently to pick up my son and it was like visiting a prison. A police car often sits outside the school and upon entry a security guard directs visitors to the main office where the visitor’s drivers license is scanned and information including date of birth is collected (is this information checked against other records and kept in a database for future reference? It’s unclear). The visitor is then photographed and issued a photo pass. I found the experience oppressive. Adding cameras will only add to the prison-like atmosphere. The response, of course, will be that these measures are necessary for “safety.” As with security measures at the airports I doubt that these measures increase actual safety, instead they are security theater, a play that we put on that looks like security but really is not.

Moreover, the truth is that American children have never been safer than they are today. Overall youth mortality (ages 5-14) has fallen from 60 per 100,000 in 1950 to 13.1 per 100,000 today (CDC, Vital Statistics). Yet we hide in gated communities, homes and schools as never before.

When we surround our students with security we are implicitly telling them that the world is dangerous; we are whispering in their ear, ‘be afraid, do not venture out, take no risks.’ When going to school requires police, security guards and cameras how can I encourage my child to travel to foreign countries, to seek new experiences, to meet people of different faiths, beliefs and backgrounds? When my child leaves school how will the atmosphere of fear that he has grown up in affect his view of the world and the choices he will make as a citizen in our democracy? School teaches more than words in books.

Yours sincerely,
Alex Tabarrok

http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2013/02/school-safety.html#sthash.i78Om3v3.dpuf

 

[dismal]

Is the mayor also the English teacher at the school?

No, but as the mayor was re-elected her views represent that of the majority of her constituents (many of whom beyond the English teach were involved). I suspect that the engineering teacher who warned the student not to show the clock to anyone else recognized that.

It could be, perhaps, the engineering teacher warned the student not to show it to anyone else because it looks suspiciously like a bomb.

Teachers are generally liberals. School administrators are generally liberals. Irving MacArthur is a 90% minority school. My guess is it's not a hotbed of conservatism inside that place.

 

[Jayjay]

You confiscate the item, send the child to the principal's office, call the child's parents, turn the item over to the recourse officer. This ain't deep. And arrests and perp walks ain't necessary. If it is a clip, parents and child take a trip to police station. If it isn't, student goes back to class, parents go back to work, and the everybody goes back to business as usual. Either way, what happened in Irving doesn't happen.

That's not to say the teacher isn't stupid, and that they couldn't have checked with the science teacher before calling the cops, but I can understand the thought process that happened once he or she got into her head that the clock might be a part of a bomb. And then of course when cops get in, they assume the worst, because Texas, and even when they do figure out they were wrong they'll do their best to try find some justification for having cracked down on an innocent kid, because cops.

If you were worried about a bomb, would you let students stay in the blast range?

And if you are worried about an AK-47 in a school, why let kids stay in the shooting range?

Were did the gun come from? YOU said a possible clip. Once the item is in school custody, and the student is sitting in the principal's office where s/he is being watched, what?

The point being, that the kid's treatment is not because they though the device was a bomb (it was probably fairly straightforward to see there were no explosives in the case, even for a layman), but that they thought he was a terrorists or aiding a terrorist by building timers for a bomb, or whatever else you'd expect from a muslim with a name Ahmed Mohammed. I'm not saying that's not a stupid conclusion, but it explains why they wouldn't empty the entire school.

So that was your point? that the school is lying in order to harass a Muslim student?

The point is that they probably knew fairly quickly it wasn't a bomb, but figured it could be a timer for a bomb. Or a fake bomb. I'm not excusing their prejudice, just explaining why they didn't empty the school based on it.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

And I am so gals we only have one school and one school administration in America so we don't have to make sweeping generalizations.

"School administration" was not meant to be the plural of a single 'school administration', but a general term for the administration of schools.

But instead of playing some kind of weird gotcha with me, are you denying that there is something deeply wrong with a school system that not only allows the above cases to happen but continues to defend them? And the fact that it happens in multiple states and keeps happening is surely a sign of how ubiquitous it is.

(And note that most people whose kids get suspended would never report it to the media).

We have reportedly 13,506 school districts in the United States. Yes, I am denying that there is something wrong with our schools (overall) as it relates to these incidents.

 

[Artemus]

No, but as the mayor was re-elected her views represent that of the majority of her constituents (many of whom beyond the English teach were involved). I suspect that the engineering teacher who warned the student not to show the clock to anyone else recognized that.

It could be, perhaps, the engineering teacher warned the student not to show it to anyone else because it looks suspiciously like a bomb.

No, it could not be, because it did not look suspiciously like a bomb, which was acknowledged by the school administration when they did not evacuate the school. It looked suspiciously like a clock that he built using components that he was taught to use in the school robotics club. (Look at the pictures of the stupid thing.)

You keep ignoring the fact that far more were involved than a couple teachers. There is absolutely no defense whatsoever for the police to arrest, handcuff, and interrogate the kid. The fact that the re-elected mayor is a proud islamophobe strongly suggests that there is an inherent bias within the community and the city government that made the arrest.

 

[Axulus]

It could be, perhaps, the engineering teacher warned the student not to show it to anyone else because it looks suspiciously like a bomb.

No, it could not be, because it did not look suspiciously like a bomb, which was acknowledged by the school administration when they did not evacuate the school. It looked suspiciously like a clock that he built using components that he was taught to use in the school robotics club. (Look at the pictures of the stupid thing.)

You keep ignoring the fact that far more were involved than a couple teachers. There is absolutely no defense whatsoever for the police to arrest, handcuff, and interrogate the kid. The fact that the re-elected mayor is a proud islamophobe strongly suggests that there is an inherent bias within the community and the city government that made the arrest.

It had some similarities to a movie prop bomb, which an overly cautious naive person may feel warrants further investigation. I don't fault the initial teacher who reported it. Where things went off the rails was when the police got involved, interrogated him, arrested him, and the school gave out a 3 day suspension.

A common sense investigation would've been to ask him what it was and bring in his engineering teacher to corroborate the story and to have that teacher give it his ok. That should've been the end of it.

 

[whichphilosophy]

This is somewhat relevant:

Here is a letter I wrote to principal of my son’s high school:

Dear Principal _____,

Thank you for requesting feedback about the installation of interior cameras at the high school. I am against the use of cameras. I visited the school recently to pick up my son and it was like visiting a prison. A police car often sits outside the school and upon entry a security guard directs visitors to the main office where the visitor’s drivers license is scanned and information including date of birth is collected (is this information checked against other records and kept in a database for future reference? It’s unclear). The visitor is then photographed and issued a photo pass. I found the experience oppressive. Adding cameras will only add to the prison-like atmosphere. The response, of course, will be that these measures are necessary for “safety.” As with security measures at the airports I doubt that these measures increase actual safety, instead they are security theater, a play that we put on that looks like security but really is not.

Moreover, the truth is that American children have never been safer than they are today. Overall youth mortality (ages 5-14) has fallen from 60 per 100,000 in 1950 to 13.1 per 100,000 today (CDC, Vital Statistics). Yet we hide in gated communities, homes and schools as never before.

When we surround our students with security we are implicitly telling them that the world is dangerous; we are whispering in their ear, ‘be afraid, do not venture out, take no risks.’ When going to school requires police, security guards and cameras how can I encourage my child to travel to foreign countries, to seek new experiences, to meet people of different faiths, beliefs and backgrounds? When my child leaves school how will the atmosphere of fear that he has grown up in affect his view of the world and the choices he will make as a citizen in our democracy? School teaches more than words in books.

Yours sincerely,
Alex Tabarrok

http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2013/02/school-safety.html#sthash.i78Om3v3.dpuf

I don't see the point of this article. Some places are dangerous. Others are if you aren't careful. It's foolish to take needless risks however. Security is required in US schools to deter assaults and thefts. This has got nothing to do with travelling to foreign countries. Wherever you travel you have to be a little streetwise without being uncomfortable. Watch out for pickpockets or even violent attackers. Carry a self defence umbrella. It is indistinguishable from an ordinary one except it weighs lot more and is made of steel. You should only be concerned if the cameras are taken away. Then the bullies can rob the other students or even violently assault them and most likely get away with it if 'no one tells. I've travelled to 32 countries. In England the London Underground rail system used to be a dangerous place at times especially at night. Since surveillance was installed crime has dropped

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The police in Irving on why they arrested Ahmed

According to the BBC, “police spokesman James McLellan said that, throughout the interview, Ahmed had maintained that he built only a clock, but said the boy was unable to give a ‘broader explanation’ as to what it would be used for.”

To tell time maybe?

The thing is it doesn't really have a purpose--it's one of these things you do as a learning project, not to produce a useful result. The authorities didn't get that.

 

[barbos]

The police in Irving on why they arrested Ahmed





To tell time maybe?

The thing is it doesn't really have a purpose--it's one of these things you do as a learning project, not to produce a useful result. The authorities didn't get that.

And the boy learned that digital clock in a suitcase looks like a bomb.

And once again, he merely took old clock, removed the case and put it inside pencil box.
I know that teachers should always be excited about student's projects but this is pretty lame.

 

[Angry Floof]

The thing is it doesn't really have a purpose--it's one of these things you do as a learning project, not to produce a useful result. The authorities didn't get that.

And the boy learned that digital clock in a suitcase looks like a bomb.

And once again, he merely took old clock, removed the case and put it inside pencil box.
I know that teachers should always be excited about student's projects but this is pretty lame.

No one thought it was a bomb. No one. Not one person responded as if there might be a bomb in the school. They did, however, respond as if they wanted to punish a little Muslim boy. Talk about fucking lame.

 

[Underseer]

And the boy learned that digital clock in a suitcase looks like a bomb.

And once again, he merely took old clock, removed the case and put it inside pencil box.
I know that teachers should always be excited about student's projects but this is pretty lame.

No one thought it was a bomb. No one. Not one person responded as if there might be a bomb in the school. They did, however, respond as if they wanted to punish a little Muslim boy. Talk about fucking lame.

Ah ha!

So you admit that this entire "controversy" is nothing more than political correctness run amok! You want to punish white people for being morally superior! Admit it! You hate white people!!!!!! Reverse racism! Racialism! Race card!!!!!!!! [/conservolibertarian]

 

[barbos]

And the boy learned that digital clock in a suitcase looks like a bomb.

And once again, he merely took old clock, removed the case and put it inside pencil box.
I know that teachers should always be excited about student's projects but this is pretty lame.

No one thought it was a bomb. No one.

True, but they thought that some people might think that.

Not one person responded as if there might be a bomb in the school. They did, however, respond as if they wanted to punish a little Muslim boy. Talk about fucking lame.

And if I remember correctly teacher took it not as an actual bomb but as a threat message, something like "See, I can make a bomb".
And again, project is lame, engineering teacher failed in my opinion. I would rather have kid actually make something much simpler but do it himself and learn something in the process.

 

[Axulus]

The thing is it doesn't really have a purpose--it's one of these things you do as a learning project, not to produce a useful result. The authorities didn't get that.

And the boy learned that digital clock in a suitcase looks like a bomb.

And once again, he merely took old clock, removed the case and put it inside pencil box.
I know that teachers should always be excited about student's projects but this is pretty lame.

It's a form of case modding. You have to start somewhere mr. superior.

Palmer Luckey, whose company got bought out by Facebook for $2 billion at age 20, started out doing things like case modding, smartphone repairs, and other kinds of tinkering in his early teens. I'm sure there are plenty of others like him.

 

[barbos]

And the boy learned that digital clock in a suitcase looks like a bomb.

And once again, he merely took old clock, removed the case and put it inside pencil box.
I know that teachers should always be excited about student's projects but this is pretty lame.

It's a form of case modding. You have to start somewhere mr. superior.

People like Palmer Luckey, whose company got bought out by Facebook for $2 billion at age 20, started out doing things like case modding, smartphone repairs, and other kinds of tinkering.

LOL, that is some modding
The claim was that boy made a clock, well, he did not, he made a new case for digital clock, actually, he did not do that either. he merely put digital clock into other preexisting case.


Facebook? never heard of them.

 

[RavenSky]

As to the OP case, it seems more another example of "zero tolerance" overreaction than anything to do with Muslims.

Except for the cop that leaned back in his chair and said "figured it would be you" to a kid who has never been in trouble with the law or the school.

 

[Underseer]

No one thought it was a bomb. No one.

True, but they thought that some people might think that.

Not one person responded as if there might be a bomb in the school. They did, however, respond as if they wanted to punish a little Muslim boy. Talk about fucking lame.

And if I remember correctly teacher took it not as an actual bomb but as a threat message, something like "See, I can make a bomb".
And again, project is lame, engineering teacher failed in my opinion. I would rather have kid actually make something much simpler but do it himself and learn something in the process.

So wait.

The teacher didn't think it was a bomb, but thought it was a "threat message" meant to look like a bomb? Your excuse doesn't even make sense.

 

[Herrick]

They thought it was a fake bomb to use as a hoax. How is it legal to interrogate a kid with no parents or lawyer? Is a bomb hoax considered "terrorism" where they're allowed to interrogate people/kids with no lawyer present?

Here's a link that shows a stupid letter the school sent the kid's parents. There's also a video where a police officer explains why they arrested and handcuffed the kid...for his "safety". Give me a fucking break.

 

[RavenSky]

My biggest problem is why (whomever "discovered" this) didn't just say, "Ahmed, what do you have there?" "Oh really, how does it work?"

It was his English teacher. His engineering teacher congratulated him on his project earlier that morning and also warned the 14 year old to not show it to anyone else, but the kid being a kid thought his English teacher would congratulate him too. He was wrong.

Actually, he said the clock started beeping during class, so that is why he showed it to her afterward.

 

[Underseer]

While the conservatives and libertarians (who are completely different, honest!) are busy making excuses for the inexcusable, let's keep in mind that there are those who argue that there is no such thing as Islamophobia.