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January 6 Hearings Live

 
Why Trump's Attempts to Overturn 2020 Election Are Unparalleled in US History - The New York Times - nice article

Trump told ally he's trying to get back at Democrats for questioning legitimacy of his own election - CNNPolitics
President Donald Trump told an ally that he knows he lost, but that he is delaying the transition process and is aggressively trying to sow doubt about the election results in order to get back at Democrats for questioning the legitimacy of his own election in 2016, especially with the Russia investigation, a source familiar with the President's thinking told CNN on Thursday.
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Yet more big-baby action.

How does he react when someone says that he is acting like a big baby?
 
In my opinion Trump is desperately trying to avoid becoming an ordinary citizen again because he knows that when he is no longer President all of criminal and civil suits against him will dominate his life. He also knows that criminal behavior while he has been in the house will start to catch up with him. He knows that he will have no leverage when the loans become due.

He is literally fighting for his very freedom and will do ANYTHING, either legal or illegal, do avoid that. He's becoming a wild animal fighting for his life. And he is exceptionally dangerous at this time. He is willing to destroy our democracy to save himself.
 
https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-n...s-11-20-20/h_0ee32947ed392bc91b2af5495bddac2a


Like with his attempt to strong arm Michigan lawmakers to break the law and give the EV;s to Trump, It appears that he wants to try the same illegal game with Penn.

Two sources tell CNN there are discussions currently underway with the President about inviting Republican state legislators from Pennsylvania to the White House.

It's not clear if those invitations have been extended yet, but President Trump has expressed interest in doing so as he tries to insert himself into the vote certification process.

This would be another brazen step on the heels of Trump meeting with lawmakers from Michigan this afternoon. The deadline for counties in Pennsylvania to certify their totals is Monday.
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https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/20/politics/trump-american-democracy/index.html

Many of Trump and Giuliani's maneuvers seem so desperate and outlandish that they are hard to take seriously. But constitutional experts are warning that the President is already doing irreparable harm to the nation.

"The problem is, he's speaking for the President of the United States," veteran Republican elections lawyer Benjamin Ginsberg told CNN's Wolf Blitzer.
"It is a sweeping, totally unsubstantiated attack on one of the basic foundations of the country -- our free elections."

Harvard Law School, said Michigan lawmakers visiting the White House on Friday could be walking into an illegal meeting.
"I am worried that any lawmakers who attend this ridiculous meet and greet are really attending a conspiratorial meeting to steal the election," Tribe told CNN's Erin Burnett. "There's no question that the meeting that is being held is illegal. There is no question that it really is designed quite corruptly to take away people's right to vote."
Tribe says the Trump campaign has lost more than two dozen lawsuits.
"It's quite clear that Republican, as well as Democratic judges, are going to follow the law when there is no ambiguity," Tribe said. "The only guy who seems to be uninterested in the law is Rudy Giuliani, and God knows what he is auditioning for."
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Well I guess if there's a bright side to all of this it's that this is like a stress and boundary test. I develop computer software and am well aware of how aggressively I have to test the resilience of any feature or overall system I develop before releasing it into the wild. Unfortunately we don't get to beta test the Constitution of the United States in a limited rollout. Any aggressive test of that system could potentially result in disastrous consequences. Many of the amendments to the Constitution were born out of reactions to near fatal tests of its robustness. If we survive this constitutional crisis without an outright coup and reactionary rebellion it is my hope that cooler heads will prevail and measures will be put into place to avoid this in the future.
 
Atheos said:
Well I guess if there's a bright side to all of this it's that this is like a stress and boundary test. I develop computer software and am well aware of how aggressively I have to test the resilience of any feature or overall system I develop before releasing it into the wild. Unfortunately we don't get to beta test the Constitution of the United States in a limited rollout. Any aggressive test of that system could potentially result in disastrous consequences. Many of the amendments to the Constitution were born out of reactions to near fatal tests of its robustness. If we survive this constitutional crisis without an outright coup and reactionary rebellion it is my hope that cooler heads will prevail and measures will be put into place to avoid this in the future.
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If they ask me... It's democracy or bust.
 
Atheos said:
Well I guess if there's a bright side to all of this it's that this is like a stress and boundary test. I develop computer software and am well aware of how aggressively I have to test the resilience of any feature or overall system I develop before releasing it into the wild. Unfortunately we don't get to beta test the Constitution of the United States in a limited rollout. Any aggressive test of that system could potentially result in disastrous consequences. Many of the amendments to the Constitution were born out of reactions to near fatal tests of its robustness. If we survive this constitutional crisis without an outright coup and reactionary rebellion it is my hope that cooler heads will prevail and measures will be put into place to avoid this in the future.
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The segregation of the population into factions that cannot agree on math or basic observable facts, can render almost any society dysfunctional.
This is going to be very very difficult to repair.
Good luck with that, all you youngsters; I won't be around to see how y'all fare.

I'm sure that the current crop of American kleptocrats aren't going to succeed very well in the short term, but proofing against future malevolent actors who aren't so mentally handicapped and emotionally stunted ,,, y'all best get busy.
 
“Bad news first: the president is actively working to undermine our democracy, usurp the will of the people, and hold onto power in violation of our Constitution. Good news: he’s really bad at it. The president is desperate to somehow throw out the votes for Biden, but like everything else in his administration it’s a race between autocracy and incompetence, and with this crowd, incompetence is Usain Bolt.”
-Colbert
 
One thing I very much hope comes out of this debacle is stronger support for democratizing the U.S..
https://www.nationalpopularvote.com/

I strongly believe that the U.S. electorate would be better informed and less apathetic if everyone's vote really counted. As a Hoosier, I knew my Biden vote would be ignored. Same for a Californian Republican.

The USA presidential election is the most talked about and televised event in the world. With the majority of Americans knowing full well how their vote will be counted months or years in advance.

The EC is a relic from the primitive country of over 200 years ago. It's obsolete and has been weaponized by the Demopublicans(Republocrats, if you prefer) to set their power in concrete.

It's still being used as a tool to maintain the power of the wealthy elites, just as it has always done. It disenfranchises the little people. That didn't matter much in the 1790s, the wealthy elites held all the cards anyway. We're supposed to be better than that now.
You know "All men are created equal...." and that sort of thing.
Tom
 
Listened to some right wing radio talk show The last few weeks. It’s all about how Biden has stolen the election and the whole thing is massive conspiracy to deny Trump a second term.

Then a caller calls in and says something like this:

I’ve got twenty friends who are all ready. Trump just needs to say the words and we will grab our guns and meet him on the streets. We need to take back this country!
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Suddenly the host is all back tracking, “I don’t think that’s appropriate, and I’ve never called for that, and we need to calm down and let the process take its course.”

And so on.

I wanted to call in and defend the caller. He’s right! This is the most massive and heinous fraud ever perpetrated on the American people! They have destroyed our sacred democracy. We SHOULD take to the streets. We should violently resist such an action taken by the illegal elites. Why isn’t Hannity calling for violence? Is he a coward? What about Mark Levin? Why are they taking this lying down? For that matter why isn’t Trump calling out his followers to take the country back? As the caller showed, they’re ready to follow him into battle! If they really believe in this country and that has been illegally stolen from us, they should issue a call to arms. Tee it up!
 
So what's the last anyone's heard from Trump? Has he been tweeting or calling in to Fox or anything? He was conspicuously absent from the COVID briefing the other day, and those who did show up wore masks, called for everyone to wear masks and practice social distancing, etc., and to boot, Dr. Fauci was there and was allowed to speak uninterrupted. Quite a pivot. I wonder what President Turdflower thinks about it.
 
Angry Floof said:
So what's the last anyone's heard from Trump? Has he been tweeting or calling in to Fox or anything? He was conspicuously absent from the COVID briefing the other day, and those who did show up wore masks, called for everyone to wear masks and practice social distancing, etc., and to boot, Dr. Fauci was there and was allowed to speak uninterrupted. Quite a pivot. I wonder what President Turdflower thinks about it.
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He's been busy muttering bullshit at the G20
 
SLD said:
Listened to some right wing radio talk show The last few weeks. It’s all about how Biden has stolen the election and the whole thing is massive conspiracy to deny Trump a second term.

Then a caller calls in and says something like this:

I’ve got twenty friends who are all ready. Trump just needs to say the words and we will grab our guns and meet him on the streets. We need to take back this country!
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Suddenly the host is all back tracking, “I don’t think that’s appropriate, and I’ve never called for that, and we need to calm down and let the process take its course.”

And so on.

I wanted to call in and defend the caller. He’s right! This is the most massive and heinous fraud ever perpetrated on the American people! They have destroyed our sacred democracy. We SHOULD take to the streets. We should violently resist such an action taken by the illegal elites. Why isn’t Hannity calling for violence? Is he a coward? What about Mark Levin? Why are they taking this lying down? For that matter why isn’t Trump calling out his followers to take the country back? As the caller showed, they’re ready to follow him into battle! If they really believe in this country and that has been illegally stolen from us, they should issue a call to arms. Tee it up!
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:hysterical:
I actually think that it would be hilarious if thousands of people flooded their lines with all that crap. I wonder what they'd do. If it became a National Movement to call in and go over the top on the hosts... would the liability issues force them to become commie lib socialist never Trumpers?
 
Atheos said:
... Many of the amendments to the Constitution were born out of reactions to near fatal tests of its robustness. If we survive this constitutional crisis without an outright coup and reactionary rebellion it is my hope that cooler heads will prevail and measures will be put into place to avoid this in the future.
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Seventy-four million Americans voted for a criminal jerk. Had he gotten 77 million instead of 74, he would have won the popular and electoral votes; would we then be nodding our heads and saying "the system worked"?

It wasn't specific laws that held America together for two centuries. It was enlightened values and good-will. Do you think a flurry of specific laws ("Tax returns have to be published for everyone seeking a job at GS-12.3 or above") will prevent American voters from choosing another criminal?

TomC said:
One thing I very much hope comes out of this debacle is stronger support for democratizing the U.S..
https://www.nationalpopularvote.com/

... The EC is a relic from the primitive country of over 200 years ago. It's obsolete and has been weaponized by the Demopublicans(Republocrats, if you prefer) to set their power in concrete.

It's still being used as a tool to maintain the power of the wealthy elites, just as it has always done. It disenfranchises the little people. That didn't matter much in the 1790s, the wealthy elites held all the cards anyway. We're supposed to be better than that now.
You know "All men are created equal...." and that sort of thing.
Tom
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Few of us would defend the electoral college, but popular vote would be no panacea. (And the NPVIC has specific dangers.) A close contest in the popular vote may not be likely, but it's far from impossible: Considering the chaos of 2000 or 2020, can you imagine the frenzy if recounts were ordered in all fifty states?

The comments about Demopublicans, Republocrats, and wealthy elites Do Not Compute. I understand that gerrymandering is bad and that the powerful have more power than the weak; but what do those have to do with the Electoral College? Unless you think that Wyomingians and Delawareans, with their disproportionate electoral strength, are "wealthy elites" compared with Californians and New Yorkers.
 
https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/22/politics/michigan-election-result-certification/index.html

What is wrong with this idiot? Does he want to reduce the US to another unstable country?

Key GOP Michigan canvassing board member expected to vote against certifying results

A key Republican on the Michigan canvassing board is expected to vote against certifying the state's election results on Monday, a potential boon for the Trump campaign's conspiracy theory-fueled effort to delay the finalization of results.
According to Michigan GOP Rep. Paul Mitchell, who said he spoke days ago with Norman Shinkle, one of the two GOP members on the board, Shinkle indicated last week he would vote against certifying the election results until an investigation is completed so as to push a delay even though there is no evidence of fraud or malfeasance that would necessitate such a move.
Shinkle told the New York Times that he had received hundreds of messages both favoring and opposing certification.
"You can't make up your mind before you get all the facts," he told the Times.

Michigan House Speaker Lee Chatfield, a Republican, said Sunday if both GOP members of the board force a 2-2 tie it could cause the process to be chaotic with the issue possibly tied up in court. He added there is a potential down the road for the state of Michigan to face a constitutional crisis.

"If there were to be a 2-2 split on the State Board of Canvassers, it would then go to the Michigan Supreme Court to determine what their response would be, what their order would be," Chatfield said on Fox News.

"If they didn't have an order that it be certified, well now we have a constitutional crisis in the state of Michigan. It's never occurred before," Chatfield said.
If the board were to vote against certifying the results, the case would go to the state court of appeals, and then the state Supreme Court, which would be expected to demand the board certify the results -- as is written in state law. The governor, Democrat Gretchen Whitmer, could also replace any of the board members.
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crazyfingers said:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/22/politics/michigan-election-result-certification/index.html

What is wrong with this idiot? Does he want to reduce the US to another unstable country?

Key GOP Michigan canvassing board member expected to vote against certifying results

A key Republican on the Michigan canvassing board is expected to vote against certifying the state's election results on Monday, a potential boon for the Trump campaign's conspiracy theory-fueled effort to delay the finalization of results.
According to Michigan GOP Rep. Paul Mitchell, who said he spoke days ago with Norman Shinkle, one of the two GOP members on the board, Shinkle indicated last week he would vote against certifying the election results until an investigation is completed so as to push a delay even though there is no evidence of fraud or malfeasance that would necessitate such a move.
Shinkle told the New York Times that he had received hundreds of messages both favoring and opposing certification.
"You can't make up your mind before you get all the facts," he told the Times.

Michigan House Speaker Lee Chatfield, a Republican, said Sunday if both GOP members of the board force a 2-2 tie it could cause the process to be chaotic with the issue possibly tied up in court. He added there is a potential down the road for the state of Michigan to face a constitutional crisis.

"If there were to be a 2-2 split on the State Board of Canvassers, it would then go to the Michigan Supreme Court to determine what their response would be, what their order would be," Chatfield said on Fox News.

"If they didn't have an order that it be certified, well now we have a constitutional crisis in the state of Michigan. It's never occurred before," Chatfield said.
If the board were to vote against certifying the results, the case would go to the state court of appeals, and then the state Supreme Court, which would be expected to demand the board certify the results -- as is written in state law. The governor, Democrat Gretchen Whitmer, could also replace any of the board members.
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Yes. And yes. He’s an idiot who wants to destabilize our country. Mostly he’s a coward who is afraid to stand up to Trump. Look at what happens to any Republican who incurs his wrath. They are toast.

What needs to happen to stop this madness is that the few Republican Senators who are willing to accept Biden just make some quiet noise that they may switch parties since they won’t be accepted anymore by Trump. That will pressure McConnell and other leaders to concede the race and once the senators fall in line together, they can force Trump to step down.

But I’m not betting on it. It would take some guts.
 
Ahab said:
The Michigan canvassing board is streaming live here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDuQquoM4sQ&ab_channel=MichiganDepartmentofState%2FSecretaryofState

Shinkle is coming across as a complete jerk. Anyways, I would recommend watching the stream. Very informative.
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Unlike many, I can't stand watching this stuff on video. I prefer to read about it. But I've been refreshing CNN every 10 minutes to see if they finally vote on what's supposed to be an automatic decision and that it's being held up is just more evidence the extremes that Rebugs will go to subvert the election. Glad Shinkle is coming off as a jerk.
 
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