Split Legalized Prostitution split from GOP: The party of idiots

[Loren Pechtel]

You're letting perfect be the enemy of good.

You only have to get HIV or another STD once. Some aren't curable. Some things should aim to be perfect.

You're still missing the fact that it's a comparison between legalized prostitution and illegal prostitution. No prostitution isn't on the ballot.

You already quoted me indicating the steps I think are necessary to take in order to manage this... so what is this?

My response there was regarding your nonchalant attitude on worker safety due to convenience and technological/cost problems.

You continue to make the same mistake--of assuming you can enforce whatever rules you want to apply.

Look what has happened with video--you can buy your content which will always have ads and other garbage, or you can pirate. The pirate product is better--no surprise it's popular. Then along came Netflix, their streaming system removed the garbage and provided the convenience of one stop shopping. It worked. Now we have many streaming services trying to compete on exclusive content and ads are back. Quality down, piracy up.

The same thing will happen if your prostitution rules are too onerous for either worker or client.

Look at what has happened with marijuana--the legalized stuff does some good things (normal safety regulations apply to it's production), but it generally comes with onerous taxes--and thus doesn't drive out the illegal market.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The following linked article was written by a sex worker in Nevada who loves her job. Btw, there are medications that one can take to prevent HIV. If sex work was legal and regulated, the medication could be required to be provided by the owner of the brothel.

Yup, PReP should be part of their employment.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You think forced marriage has anything to do with sex trafficking?!?!

I think that forcing 11 and 12 year olds is definitely forced participation in sex with an adult —in other words rape. Usually to cover up previous/ongoing rapes. And yes, there are children who are being transported across state and international lines to be married to adults.

I agree there are such rapes--but I do not think prostitution laws are in any way relevant.

And I agree there are people transported for the purpose--but, again, I see no way prostitution laws will be relevant.

Not all unwanted sex is prostitution, not all prostitution is unwanted sex.

The question wasn’t whether or not this was prostitution but whether or not it is human trafficking and I think that in some cases, where state lines are crossed, it might well be.

So you acknowledge they are different things. Thus please explain how you expect laws about prostitution to have anything to do with the sorts of abuse you're talking about?? You realize the forced marriage stuff is perpetrated by relatives??

 

[Loren Pechtel]

For instance, in Nevada, the money generated by illegal prostitution is much, much, much higher than the money generated by legal prostitution.

Surely this is primarily because prostitution is illegal in Las Vegas yet commonplace.

Las Vegas and Reno. Most people here are not in counties where it's legal. Google says the closest brothel is a one hour drive from here so call it an 80 minutes from the tourist parts of town, not counting any traffic jams getting to the freeway. (And in the evening expect traffic to be a mess.)

And you'll need Google or the like to find it--I've driven past the spot you would turn many times and there's certainly no indication it's over there. The billboards are mostly about fireworks. (The fireworks laws there are much more liberal than here.)

 

[Toni]

There is nothing preventing a prostitute from
going to a clinic and getting on PreP . Well, except perhaps money and the freedom to control their movements.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

For one thing most of that money is from out of state, not from the 3m residents.
Most visitors are in LV, where it is illegal.

I know. For some reason, prostitution is illegal in Las Vegas but not in surrounding counties. I wonder why? Not really: I’m certain that there are billion$$ of reasons….

Actually, the reason is quasi-legitimate. They are afraid of women objecting to their husbands going to a convention in a city with legal brothels. And we routinely host conventions that would push most cities to bursting. I've been in conventions where attendees were greater than 10% of the local population. It's becoming more online but CES still was in the ballpark of 130k and we can handle that with ease.

However, there is a prudish streak. We have full-nude no-alcohol strip clubs (which were created only because there was a period where they simply weren't issuing liquor licenses to strip clubs) and we have topless with-alcohol strip clubs. And we have one grandfathered in that has full nudity and alcohol. This includes the casinos--shows are topless, not quite full nude. (Although there are acts where there is unquestionably nudity, just not facing the audience.)

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I know. For some reason, prostitution is illegal in Las Vegas but not in surrounding counties. I wonder why? Not really: I’m certain that there are billion$$ of reasons….

Yeah.
The only time I've been to Vegas I was too young to do anything but sightseeing.
But old cynical me is pretty sure that legalizing prostitution was a way for surrounding counties to cash in on all that tourist money.
Tom

Actually, you would be wrong--it's a state-level decision that the counties that hold Las Vegas and Reno are not allowed prostitution, otherwise it's county choice. We have twp neighbors, one it's legal, one it's not.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

There is nothing preventing a prostitute from
going to a clinic and getting on PreP . Well, except perhaps money and the freedom to control their movements.

The places where their movements are controlled are by local law, not the brothel. They don't want them wandering around town. And nothing says they can't bring it with them.

 

[Elixir]

However, there is a prudish streak

You seem disturbingly well informed.

 

[Toni]

There is nothing preventing a prostitute from
going to a clinic and getting on PreP . Well, except perhaps money and the freedom to control their movements.

The places where their movements are controlled are by local law, not the brothel. They don't want them wandering around town. And nothing says they can't bring it with them.

What? Prostitutes have to walk around town with signs around their necks identifying their profession?

Or is it rather that the brothels do not allow them freedom of movement?

I know which one I think is more likely. And much, much more foolish. Any brothel that cared a fig about the health and wellbeing of its workers would provide PreP on site and would highly recommend it for their clients. Of course, recommending it for their clients, much like providing it for their workers or demanding clients take an on site rapid HIV tests immediately prior to appointments would destroy some of the illusions about the whole business, now wouldn't it?

 

[Toni]

I know. For some reason, prostitution is illegal in Las Vegas but not in surrounding counties. I wonder why? Not really: I’m certain that there are billion$$ of reasons….

Yeah.
The only time I've been to Vegas I was too young to do anything but sightseeing.
But old cynical me is pretty sure that legalizing prostitution was a way for surrounding counties to cash in on all that tourist money.
Tom

Actually, you would be wrong--it's a state-level decision that the counties that hold Las Vegas and Reno are not allowed prostitution, otherwise it's county choice. We have twp neighbors, one it's legal, one it's not.

Yeah, why on earth would Nevada not allow prostitution in the two major tourist destinations? It could not possibly be that there is more money to be found in the illegal trade.....

 

[Elixir]

I know. For some reason, prostitution is illegal in Las Vegas but not in surrounding counties. I wonder why? Not really: I’m certain that there are billion$$ of reasons….

Yeah.
The only time I've been to Vegas I was too young to do anything but sightseeing.
But old cynical me is pretty sure that legalizing prostitution was a way for surrounding counties to cash in on all that tourist money.
Tom

Actually, you would be wrong--it's a state-level decision that the counties that hold Las Vegas and Reno are not allowed prostitution, otherwise it's county choice. We have twp neighbors, one it's legal, one it's not.

Yeah, why on earth would Nevada not allow prostitution in the two major tourist destinations? It could not possibly be that there is more money to be found in the illegal trade.....

Xplained above. Business conventions. Wives don’t want their men going anywhere prostitution is legal. It might be a big business, but it doesn’t compare to conventions.
My favorite shows EVER were the Outdoor Retailer Summer Markets in Reno, before it got too big. The casino in the hotel across the street from the Center was where deals were done after show hours, and I think legal prostitution would have impaired or destroyed the whole dynamic.

 

[Toni]

I know. For some reason, prostitution is illegal in Las Vegas but not in surrounding counties. I wonder why? Not really: I’m certain that there are billion$$ of reasons….

Yeah.
The only time I've been to Vegas I was too young to do anything but sightseeing.
But old cynical me is pretty sure that legalizing prostitution was a way for surrounding counties to cash in on all that tourist money.
Tom

Actually, you would be wrong--it's a state-level decision that the counties that hold Las Vegas and Reno are not allowed prostitution, otherwise it's county choice. We have twp neighbors, one it's legal, one it's not.

Yeah, why on earth would Nevada not allow prostitution in the two major tourist destinations? It could not possibly be that there is more money to be found in the illegal trade.....

Xplained above. Business conventions. Wives don’t want their men going anywhere prostitution is legal. It might be a big business, but it doesn’t compare to conventions.
My favorite shows EVER were the Outdoor Retailer Summer Markets in Reno, before it got too big. The casino in the hotel across the street from the Center was where deals were done after show hours, and I think legal prostitution would have impaired or destroyed the whole dynamic.

I call bullshit. Wives are not stupid. Wives know good and well that prostitutes exist in every single town in the USA and that illegal don't mean shit. FFS, I live in a smallish city/town in the middle of nowhere and my daughter told me that out of town businessmen connected to a particular business in town would try to pick up girls in bars, assuming that they were pros (or interested in married men from out of town looking for a prostitute or reasonable facsimile). It is NOT a secret.

 

[Elixir]

I know. For some reason, prostitution is illegal in Las Vegas but not in surrounding counties. I wonder why? Not really: I’m certain that there are billion$$ of reasons….

Yeah.
The only time I've been to Vegas I was too young to do anything but sightseeing.
But old cynical me is pretty sure that legalizing prostitution was a way for surrounding counties to cash in on all that tourist money.
Tom

Actually, you would be wrong--it's a state-level decision that the counties that hold Las Vegas and Reno are not allowed prostitution, otherwise it's county choice. We have twp neighbors, one it's legal, one it's not.

Yeah, why on earth would Nevada not allow prostitution in the two major tourist destinations? It could not possibly be that there is more money to be found in the illegal trade.....

Xplained above. Business conventions. Wives don’t want their men going anywhere prostitution is legal. It might be a big business, but it doesn’t compare to conventions.
My favorite shows EVER were the Outdoor Retailer Summer Markets in Reno, before it got too big. The casino in the hotel across the street from the Center was where deals were done after show hours, and I think legal prostitution would have impaired or destroyed the whole dynamic.

I call bullshit. Wives are not stupid. Wives know good and well that prostitutes exist in every single town in the USA and that illegal don't mean shit. FFS, I live in a smallish city/town in the middle of nowhere and my daughter told me that out of town businessmen connected to a particular business in town would try to pick up girls in bars, assuming that they were pros (or interested in married men from out of town looking for a prostitute or reasonable facsimile). It is NOT a secret.

Okay then, the governing bodies must simply not want the revenue.

Do you think they make more from illegal prostitution? You should know better. It’s about the bottom line for the law making entities.

 

[Elixir]

Okay then, the governing bodies must simply not want the revenue.

Do you think they make more from illegal prostitution? You should know better. It’s about the bottom line.

I'm certainly not claiming to know. But it wouldn't surprise me in the least to find out that the people who really run Vegas, the moguls not the government, simply don't want to share the revenue with the government.

Tom

Sounds like a hell of a stretch. A Statewide mob running all the illegal prostitution? Not likely. Separate mobs running Reno and LV? Hmmm.
I bet most of the illegal prostitution is run out of people’s homes, by the person/ people who live there.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I know. For some reason, prostitution is illegal in Las Vegas but not in surrounding counties. I wonder why? Not really: I’m certain that there are billion$$ of reasons….

Yeah.
The only time I've been to Vegas I was too young to do anything but sightseeing.
But old cynical me is pretty sure that legalizing prostitution was a way for surrounding counties to cash in on all that tourist money.
Tom

Actually, you would be wrong--it's a state-level decision that the counties that hold Las Vegas and Reno are not allowed prostitution, otherwise it's county choice. We have twp neighbors, one it's legal, one it's not.

Yeah, why on earth would Nevada not allow prostitution in the two major tourist destinations? It could not possibly be that there is more money to be found in the illegal trade.....

The government needs to keep their hands off my prostitutes!

I was pondering that. How expensive it becomes (I have no idea how much it costs now, though I assume street to location to upper class there are many pay scales) to regulate the biz. Does legalization increase traffic or decrease it? It is probably easier to fuck around with cash than on a credit card bill (Hey, honey... what is this $350 charge labeled "OFFICE SUPPLIES" for?).

The more regulation, the more the hassle. As it stands now, there are no union rights, so it is easy to manage the labor, which I think could be the biggest issue. Might not be the financials, but the control over the labor supply.

 

[Toni]

I know. For some reason, prostitution is illegal in Las Vegas but not in surrounding counties. I wonder why? Not really: I’m certain that there are billion$$ of reasons….

Yeah.
The only time I've been to Vegas I was too young to do anything but sightseeing.
But old cynical me is pretty sure that legalizing prostitution was a way for surrounding counties to cash in on all that tourist money.
Tom

Actually, you would be wrong--it's a state-level decision that the counties that hold Las Vegas and Reno are not allowed prostitution, otherwise it's county choice. We have twp neighbors, one it's legal, one it's not.

Yeah, why on earth would Nevada not allow prostitution in the two major tourist destinations? It could not possibly be that there is more money to be found in the illegal trade.....

The government needs to keep their hands off my prostitutes!

I was pondering that. How expensive it becomes (I have no idea how much it costs now, though I assume street to location to upper class there are many pay scales) to regulate the biz. Does legalization increase traffic or decrease it? It is probably easier to fuck around with cash than on a credit card bill (Hey, honey... what is this $350 charge labeled "OFFICE SUPPLIES" for?).

The more regulation, the more the hassle. As it stands now, there are no union rights, so it is easy to manage the labor, which I think could be the biggest issue. Might not be the financials, but the control over the labor supply.

Exactly: it’s all about controlling the labor supply. And if there are t enough willing labor participants….

 

[Loren Pechtel]

There is nothing preventing a prostitute from
going to a clinic and getting on PreP . Well, except perhaps money and the freedom to control their movements.

The places where their movements are controlled are by local law, not the brothel. They don't want them wandering around town. And nothing says they can't bring it with them.

What? Prostitutes have to walk around town with signs around their necks identifying their profession?

Or is it rather that the brothels do not allow them freedom of movement?

What part of "controlled by local law" did you not understand?

I know which one I think is more likely. And much, much more foolish. Any brothel that cared a fig about the health and wellbeing of its workers would provide PreP on site and would highly recommend it for their clients. Of course, recommending it for their clients, much like providing it for their workers or demanding clients take an on site rapid HIV tests immediately prior to appointments would destroy some of the illusions about the whole business, now wouldn't it?

Recommending it for their clients isn't feasible and I doubt is even legal (that's medical advice.) And remember that the prostitutes are independent contractors, not employees.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I know. For some reason, prostitution is illegal in Las Vegas but not in surrounding counties. I wonder why? Not really: I’m certain that there are billion$$ of reasons….

Yeah.
The only time I've been to Vegas I was too young to do anything but sightseeing.
But old cynical me is pretty sure that legalizing prostitution was a way for surrounding counties to cash in on all that tourist money.
Tom

Actually, you would be wrong--it's a state-level decision that the counties that hold Las Vegas and Reno are not allowed prostitution, otherwise it's county choice. We have twp neighbors, one it's legal, one it's not.

Yeah, why on earth would Nevada not allow prostitution in the two major tourist destinations? It could not possibly be that there is more money to be found in the illegal trade.....

Xplained above. Business conventions. Wives don’t want their men going anywhere prostitution is legal. It might be a big business, but it doesn’t compare to conventions.
My favorite shows EVER were the Outdoor Retailer Summer Markets in Reno, before it got too big. The casino in the hotel across the street from the Center was where deals were done after show hours, and I think legal prostitution would have impaired or destroyed the whole dynamic.

I call bullshit. Wives are not stupid. Wives know good and well that prostitutes exist in every single town in the USA and that illegal don't mean shit. FFS, I live in a smallish city/town in the middle of nowhere and my daughter told me that out of town businessmen connected to a particular business in town would try to pick up girls in bars, assuming that they were pros (or interested in married men from out of town looking for a prostitute or reasonable facsimile). It is NOT a secret.

Sure it exists, but the illegality is a deterrent. I disagree with Elixir on it destroying the dynamic, but I do believe it would cut attendance. And the conventions are worth far more to the state than the brothels.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Okay then, the governing bodies must simply not want the revenue.

Do you think they make more from illegal prostitution? You should know better. It’s about the bottom line.

I'm certainly not claiming to know. But it wouldn't surprise me in the least to find out that the people who really run Vegas, the moguls not the government, simply don't want to share the revenue with the government.

Tom

Sounds like a hell of a stretch. A Statewide mob running all the illegal prostitution? Not likely. Separate mobs running Reno and LV? Hmmm.
I bet most of the illegal prostitution is run out of people’s homes, by the person/ people who live there.

Disagree. The girls are safer as part of an organized system and it avoid them needing to deal with all aspects of the business, let alone how many calls would go to voicemail while she was with a client. A bunch of independents can be picked off one by one by the police, the organized systems the police could pick off one and then the word would be out, that is a sting and it wouldn't catch anyone else. While there are multiple outfits in town the cooperate in that regard, telling each other about stings. The overall result is they operate quite openly, the police leave them alone so long as they don't cause problems.