Male patients asked if they are pregnant at NHS Trust

[Arctish]

Did the hospital staff do a thorough exam in order to determine your sex or are they relying on you to self report things you've never actually examined yourself?

Does the hospital staff do a thorough exam of every person, male or female, to determine whether they're pregnant, or are they relying on the patient to self report whether they could be pregnant?

Why do you think that a patient will be able to accurately and honestly provide an answer for being pregnant... but is unable to know whether they're of the sex capable of getting pregnant in the first place?

"Well gee doc, I'm really not sure if I'm male or female, I'm not a biologist after all, and I haven't had extensive testing done... but I'm absolutely certain that I'm not pregnant!"

I don't think it's a fool proof method. I think it's an improvement.

A policy that calls for asking everyone the same questions prior to treatment is better than a policy that calls for only asking some patients some questions. It doesn't eliminate errors but it does reduce the probability of something important being overlooked.

 

[Metaphor]

I get it that some men don't want to be asked that question.

I get it that some very sexist men might feel insulted and demeaned if they are asked that question.

While we're at it, let's ask everyone, including females, whether they might have an enlarged prostate. Let's ask everyone, including males, whether they might have fibroids, endometriosis, or ovarian cysts. Let's ask everyone, including females, if they have difficulty maintaining an erection. Let's ask everyone, including males, when their last mammogram was

I mean, we wouldn't want to miss anyone right? So let's just ask everyone everything, just in case. That makes perfect sense. Certainly it's waaaaay more sensible than asking a patient their sex, and then asking only those questions that are relevant to that sex, right?

YES!

Let's ask everyone the same questions about conditions that can affect treatment or bring about harmful results.

Let's get over being offended when hospital staff don't presume to know our sex

Hospitals do know your sex. It is on your wristband along with other demographics.

Did the hospital staff do a thorough exam in order to determine your sex or are they relying on you to self report things you've never actually examined yourself?

Of course they are relying on self-report, just like they are when they asked females if they were pregnant.

Also, are hospitals infallible? Is there a higher power ensuring that the F and M designations are always accurate and only the correct patient is wearing the correct wristband?

No, hospitals are not infallible.

and reproductive capabilities and appreciate that we are being asked so that we can get the best care possible. Better safe than sorry, right? What exactly is the problem with that?

You've been told a dozen times what the problem is with the new policy.

I've been told you don't like it. I've been told you think asking males if they might be pregnant is "ableist".

"Ableism is the discrimination of and social prejudice against people with disabilities based on the belief that typical abilities are superior. At its heart, ableism is rooted in the assumption that disabled people require 'fixing' and defines people by their disability." <link>

It appears you are arguing that hospital staff are making males feel bad about themselves because males can't get pregnant. But since that's silly I didn't take that argument seriously.

No, that is not what I mean. I mean it is ableist because somebody with cognitive deficits might be genuinely confused and upset that they are being asked about being pregnant when they know they can't get pregnant.

I've been told you don't like it because it might confuse ESL speakers. But since confusion is a common occurrence and competent people know to ask for clarification while incompetent people are typically escorted by competent caregivers when they're in hospital, I didn't take this argument seriously, either.

No, I'm sure you didn't take it seriously, almost certainly because you've never grown up with ESL speakers as parents.

I've been told you think some males might feel insulted and demeaned if they were asked if they might be pregnant. I have been taking this one seriously because I think it's stupid and sexist for males to feel that way.

So, because you feel certain feelings are stupid, they don't count?

And I've been told you think there were no incidents of pregnant people being exposed to things that can harm a fetus before the policy changed and that you think the change was politically motivated. I think you're being ridiculously optimistic about there being no problems. Even the most thorough checklists and protocols developed by the most knowledgeable professionals can have flaws that are only discovered when things go terribly wrong. And so what if the change was politically motivated? Most improvements in society are.

This is not an improvement in any way.

When I ask you what's the problem with hospital staff asking everyone if they might be pregnant I'm giving you the chance to explain your thinking in greater detail. I'm pretty sure I already know why you don't like.

I have explained a dozen times. I won't do it again.

 

[Arctish]

It appears you are arguing that hospital staff are making males feel bad about themselves because males can't get pregnant.

Honestly, I think it undermines trust in hospital staff since they seem unable to understand that males can't get pregnant.

YMMV but I prefer comprehensive checklists in medical settings.

Sure, it's a bit aggravating to fill out a 4 page questionnaire before an eye exam but it's worth it knowing my eye doctor is aware of my sensitivity to certain antibiotics, that I frequently take certain over-the-counter medications, and that I don't think I might be pregnant.

 

[Arctish]

I've been told you think some males might feel insulted and demeaned if they were asked if they might be pregnant. I have been taking this one seriously because I think it's stupid and sexist for males to feel that way.

So, because you feel certain feelings are stupid, they don't count?

No, because I feel certain things are stupid, I argue with other posters on this discussion board about them.

And because I feel sexism promotes and encourages stupidity, I frequently engage with others on this topic.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I get it that some men don't want to be asked that question.

I get it that some very sexist men might feel insulted and demeaned if they are asked that question.

While we're at it, let's ask everyone, including females, whether they might have an enlarged prostate. Let's ask everyone, including males, whether they might have fibroids, endometriosis, or ovarian cysts. Let's ask everyone, including females, if they have difficulty maintaining an erection. Let's ask everyone, including males, when their last mammogram was.

Well, I've had a radiology report that marked me female and listed a mildly enlarged prostate as an incidental finding (I'm in my 50s, duh!) Thus, obviously females can have an enlarged prostate!

My wife has never been asked any of those female-specific questions other than by the ob-gyn (who is looking at whether it's time for another one) and the radiologists (the question is always "if so, where?"--they want to compare the old image.) I've never been asked any of the male-specific ones. (Which actually was a bit of a surprise. The standard questionnaire from the urologist asked a bunch of questions about peeing, nothing about sexual function.)

 

[Loren Pechtel]

While we're at it, let's ask everyone, including females, whether they might have an enlarged prostate.

Is that a consideration when about to get an MRI?

If so, then yeah!
But I've never had an MRI, so I'm not an expert.
Tom

I just had one. A long list of questions about anything unnatural that might be in my body. A few questions about abdominal surgeries. IIRC the only health condition they asked about was blood pressure and the standard "why are we doing this?" question.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Did the hospital staff do a thorough exam in order to determine your sex or are they relying on you to self report things you've never actually examined yourself?

Does the hospital staff do a thorough exam of every person, male or female, to determine whether they're pregnant, or are they relying on the patient to self report whether they could be pregnant?

IIRC it was 2020 when some imaging directly revealed male anatomy. There has been some imaging that I haven't seen the images of that could possibly reveal male anatomy. 2012 likewise had imaging I know revealed male anatomy and a doc actually eyeballed male anatomy in seeing what they needed to see. Other than that I can't think of a time when they didn't simply take my word as to what I've got. (Although my chest has been observed by a decent number of docs--but that doesn't prove I'm not just a very flat-chested female.)

Why do you think that a patient will be able to accurately and honestly provide an answer for being pregnant... but is unable to know whether they're of the sex capable of getting pregnant in the first place?

"Well gee doc, I'm really not sure if I'm male or female, I'm not a biologist after all, and I haven't had extensive testing done... but I'm absolutely certain that I'm not pregnant!"

The problem is docs take a verify-it approach to pregnancy if it's important.

 

[Arctish]

I get it that some men don't want to be asked that question.

I get it that some very sexist men might feel insulted and demeaned if they are asked that question.

While we're at it, let's ask everyone, including females, whether they might have an enlarged prostate. Let's ask everyone, including males, whether they might have fibroids, endometriosis, or ovarian cysts. Let's ask everyone, including females, if they have difficulty maintaining an erection. Let's ask everyone, including males, when their last mammogram was.

Well, I've had a radiology report that marked me female and listed a mildly enlarged prostate as an incidental finding (I'm in my 50s, duh!) Thus, obviously females can have an enlarged prostate!

My sister's friend was billed for 2 circumcisions allegedly performed on her newborn. When she called to complain to the hospital billing dept. , the clerk noted it was obviously a mistake and said they would remove the charges for one of them. The new mom then re-stated that her baby was a girl.

 

[Metaphor]

I get it that some men don't want to be asked that question.

I get it that some very sexist men might feel insulted and demeaned if they are asked that question.

While we're at it, let's ask everyone, including females, whether they might have an enlarged prostate. Let's ask everyone, including males, whether they might have fibroids, endometriosis, or ovarian cysts. Let's ask everyone, including females, if they have difficulty maintaining an erection. Let's ask everyone, including males, when their last mammogram was.

Well, I've had a radiology report that marked me female and listed a mildly enlarged prostate as an incidental finding (I'm in my 50s, duh!) Thus, obviously females can have an enlarged prostate!

My sister's friend was billed for 2 circumcisions allegedly performed on her newborn. When she called to complain to the hospital billing dept. , the clerk noted it was obviously a mistake and said they would remove the charges for one of them. The new mom then re-stated that her baby was a girl.

Silly hospital admin! It was some other parent that paid a doctor to mutilate her son's genitals!

 

[Arctish]

I get it that some men don't want to be asked that question.

I get it that some very sexist men might feel insulted and demeaned if they are asked that question.

While we're at it, let's ask everyone, including females, whether they might have an enlarged prostate. Let's ask everyone, including males, whether they might have fibroids, endometriosis, or ovarian cysts. Let's ask everyone, including females, if they have difficulty maintaining an erection. Let's ask everyone, including males, when their last mammogram was.

Well, I've had a radiology report that marked me female and listed a mildly enlarged prostate as an incidental finding (I'm in my 50s, duh!) Thus, obviously females can have an enlarged prostate!

My sister's friend was billed for 2 circumcisions allegedly performed on her newborn. When she called to complain to the hospital billing dept. , the clerk noted it was obviously a mistake and said they would remove the charges for one of them. The new mom then re-stated that her baby was a girl.

Silly hospital admin! It was some other parent that paid a doctor to mutilate her son's genitals!

Indeed it was. But mistakes on hospital forms happen., including the M or F designation.

 

[Rhea]

So I see the argument

There is no evidence whatever that the previous policy went by appearance.

With or without a wristband, hospitals know your sex. They know it because they ask you or they already have it.

While knowing that we have also seen more than a dozen times in this thread, “but it happened to me that I got imaging without a bracelet or anyone asking my sex or having a chart,”

And the reply is a repeat of some version of

There is no evidence whatever that the previous policy AT THAT HOSPITAL went by appearance.

With occasional interjections of

And this is the only hospital that has done this!

So we must now ask,
IF the problem is just at that one hospital, and no other experiences contrary from other hospitals or care facilities are relevant, so we can’t imagine that me getting an x ray with no sex determination is relevant to this story,

AND IF the complainers have never been to that hospital

THEN what on earth is the problem?

 

[Metaphor]

I get it that some men don't want to be asked that question.

I get it that some very sexist men might feel insulted and demeaned if they are asked that question.

While we're at it, let's ask everyone, including females, whether they might have an enlarged prostate. Let's ask everyone, including males, whether they might have fibroids, endometriosis, or ovarian cysts. Let's ask everyone, including females, if they have difficulty maintaining an erection. Let's ask everyone, including males, when their last mammogram was.

Well, I've had a radiology report that marked me female and listed a mildly enlarged prostate as an incidental finding (I'm in my 50s, duh!) Thus, obviously females can have an enlarged prostate!

My sister's friend was billed for 2 circumcisions allegedly performed on her newborn. When she called to complain to the hospital billing dept. , the clerk noted it was obviously a mistake and said they would remove the charges for one of them. The new mom then re-stated that her baby was a girl.

Silly hospital admin! It was some other parent that paid a doctor to mutilate her son's genitals!

Indeed it was. But mistakes on hospital forms happen., including the M or F designation.

I'll bet the doctor that performed the genital mutilation wasn't confused about the sex of his victim.

 

[Metaphor]

So I see the argument

There is no evidence whatever that the previous policy went by appearance.

With or without a wristband, hospitals know your sex. They know it because they ask you or they already have it.

While knowing that we have also seen more than a dozen times in this thread, “but it happened to me that I got imaging without a bracelet or anyone asking my sex or having a chart,”

And the reply is a repeat of some version of

There is no evidence whatever that the previous policy AT THAT HOSPITAL went by appearance.

With occasional interjections of

And this is the only hospital that has done this!

So we must now ask,
IF the problem is just at that one hospital, and no other experiences contrary from other hospitals or care facilities are relevant, so we can’t imagine that me getting an x ray with no sex determination is relevant to this story,

AND IF the complainers have never been to that hospital

THEN what on earth is the problem?

If there are females on this board that got an imaging procedure and were not asked if they were pregnant, please come forth and share your story.

Loren's story that his female wife was asked about her pregnancy status are irrelevant. Loren's story that he was marked as F on a scan are irrelevant, because Loren is an M and no scan harmed his gestating fetus.

 

[Toni]

So pregnant 11 year olds are women? Of course not.

Again. this is a stupid play on the word "woman". That 11 year old is NOT A MALE so your bait and switch with the term "woman" is ridiculous.

According to LEGAL terminology, that 11 year old is not a woman, because she is not a LEGAL adult. But according to fucking biology, the fact that she conceived is absolutely evidence that she is a sexually adult female of the human species.

JFC. If a surprisingly young filly gets preggers, that filly is a mare.

Absolutely incorrect: a pregnant 11 year old is NOT biologically or sexually adult. Indeed, a pregnancy for a 11 year old is a very serious risk to her because her body is NOT physically mature enough, even though she has ovulated and been raped. Her body may be able to carry the pregnancy if she has enough support, medically and nutritionally but this would be considered a very high risk pregnancy. An 11 year old is NOT a woman.

 

[Rhea]

If there are females on this board that got an imaging procedure and were not asked if they were pregnant, please come forth and share your story.

I already did. You said they always knew if we were female. I have had multiple x rays and MRIs when no one asked me my sex.

It has happened multiple times.

You said the X-ray tech will always know I’m a woman. I told you they don’t.

I’ve had more than two dozen xrays in my life (I’ve lost count) not including dental x rays. And probably 8 or more MRIs.

They do NOT always know that I’m a woman. They rarely ask if I’m a woman.

Your premise that the imaging tech will always know my sex is falsified. Was falsified pages ago.

 

[Metaphor]

If there are females on this board that got an imaging procedure and were not asked if they were pregnant, please come forth and share your story.

I already did. You said they always knew if we were female. I have had multiple x rays and MRIs when no one asked me my sex.

That isn't the question I asked. I did not ask whether they asked you verbally about your sex. I asked if you had imaging done, as a female, and were not asked your pregnancy status.

It has happened multiple times.

You said the X-ray tech will always know I’m a woman. I told you they don’t.

So - you had imaging done, as a female, and were not asked if you were pregnant or could be pregnant?

How long ago was this and did you complain that the imaging could have harmed a pregnant woman's fetus?

I’ve had more than two dozen xrays in my life (I’ve lost count) not including dental x rays. And probably 8 or more MRIs.

They do NOT always know that I’m a woman. They rarely ask if I’m a woman.

Do they ask if you are pregnant?

Your premise that the imaging tech will always know my sex is falsified. Was falsified pages ago.

It was not, of course, anything of the sort.

 

[Emily Lake]

And because I feel sexism promotes and encourages stupidity, I frequently engage with others on this topic.

I really worry about the state of civilization when acknowledging that males cannot get pregnant is considered "sexism".

 

[Emily Lake]

If there are females on this board that got an imaging procedure and were not asked if they were pregnant, please come forth and share your story.

I've been asked for every scan I've had - even dental xrays - since I began puberty. I've also been asked in many situations that do NOT include scans. Hell, I'm about 90% sure that I get asked every time I get a blood draw, regardless of what the draw is for!

 

[Emily Lake]

So pregnant 11 year olds are women? Of course not.

Again. this is a stupid play on the word "woman". That 11 year old is NOT A MALE so your bait and switch with the term "woman" is ridiculous.

According to LEGAL terminology, that 11 year old is not a woman, because she is not a LEGAL adult. But according to fucking biology, the fact that she conceived is absolutely evidence that she is a sexually adult female of the human species.

JFC. If a surprisingly young filly gets preggers, that filly is a mare.

Absolutely incorrect: a pregnant 11 year old is NOT biologically or sexually adult. Indeed, a pregnancy for a 11 year old is a very serious risk to her because her body is NOT physically mature enough, even though she has ovulated and been raped. Her body may be able to carry the pregnancy if she has enough support, medically and nutritionally but this would be considered a very high risk pregnancy. An 11 year old is NOT a woman.

You're using different meanings here. If a female mammal of any species has become pregnant, then that mammal is sexually mature. Sexually mature literally means capable of becoming pregnant for females, capable of impregnating for a male.

Yes, it's certainly a serious health risk. I'm not disputing that. Yes, no matter how you view it she has been raped.

But if that person is pregnant, that person is a sexually mature female of the human species.

 

[Gun Nut]

I swear some people aren't reading. The question about sex is NOT as straightforward for ALL people as you seem to believe. A trans individual may identify as their new gender and simply not even consider that at one time they had a uterus and ovaries. OR they may still retain a uterus or ovaries. A trans woman may identify herself as female.

And that right there is the core of the issue.

At one point in time we were told very clearly that sex and gender were completely different things. It was a cornerstone of the transgender rights approach.

Now, however, we're back to conflating sex and gender... only NOW we're setting personal, subjective, unverifiable gender identity as more paramount than sex.

Which means we're now living in a world where several people think it's a good idea to just skip right over sex in medical scenarios, despite the fact that it is an incredibly vital piece of information for doctors to have... and instead, ask everybody, even males, if they might be pregnant.

And why? Because some people might give a false answer, or might actually believe that their gender identity has changed their sex, or their feelings might be hurt by someone wanting to know their sex. So now... everyone else has to be asked a question that is completely irrelevant to half the population, and forego a piece of information that is relevant to nearly every single patient all the time... in order to avoid educating a tiny sliver of the populus about the importance of telling the doctor their actual sex.

Yes, exactly. I have experienced a homosexual female (former) friend actually say that someone was a "bad person" for acknowledging that biological sex has ANY relevance besides being a "primitive social construct". I hope she never gets breast cancer... cause that one hell-of-a murderous social construct.