Male patients asked if they are pregnant at NHS Trust

[Metaphor]

I get it that some men don't want to be asked that question.

I get it that some very sexist men might feel insulted and demeaned if they are asked that question.

While we're at it, let's ask everyone, including females, whether they might have an enlarged prostate. Let's ask everyone, including males, whether they might have fibroids, endometriosis, or ovarian cysts. Let's ask everyone, including females, if they have difficulty maintaining an erection. Let's ask everyone, including males, when their last mammogram was

I mean, we wouldn't want to miss anyone right? So let's just ask everyone everything, just in case. That makes perfect sense. Certainly it's waaaaay more sensible than asking a patient their sex, and then asking only those questions that are relevant to that sex, right?

YES!

Let's ask everyone the same questions about conditions that can affect treatment or bring about harmful results.

Let's get over being offended when hospital staff don't presume to know our sex

Hospitals do know your sex. It is on your wristband along with other demographics.

and reproductive capabilities and appreciate that we are being asked so that we can get the best care possible. Better safe than sorry, right? What exactly is the problem with that?

You've been told a dozen times what the problem is with the new policy.

What is the problem with the new policy?

I've written it out half a dozen times and I'm not going to do it again.

In the US usually only patients who are admitted to a hospital get wristbands. Many/most people who get X-rays or MRIs are not admitted to the hospital. They don’t have wristbands.

With or without a wristband, hospitals know your sex. They know it because they ask you or they already have it.

 

[Toni]

I get it that some men don't want to be asked that question.

I get it that some very sexist men might feel insulted and demeaned if they are asked that question.

While we're at it, let's ask everyone, including females, whether they might have an enlarged prostate. Let's ask everyone, including males, whether they might have fibroids, endometriosis, or ovarian cysts. Let's ask everyone, including females, if they have difficulty maintaining an erection. Let's ask everyone, including males, when their last mammogram was

I mean, we wouldn't want to miss anyone right? So let's just ask everyone everything, just in case. That makes perfect sense. Certainly it's waaaaay more sensible than asking a patient their sex, and then asking only those questions that are relevant to that sex, right?

YES!

Let's ask everyone the same questions about conditions that can affect treatment or bring about harmful results.

Let's get over being offended when hospital staff don't presume to know our sex

Hospitals do know your sex. It is on your wristband along with other demographics.

and reproductive capabilities and appreciate that we are being asked so that we can get the best care possible. Better safe than sorry, right? What exactly is the problem with that?

You've been told a dozen times what the problem is with the new policy.

What is the problem with the new policy?

I've written it out half a dozen times and I'm not going to do it again.

In the US usually only patients who are admitted to a hospital get wristbands. Many/most people who get X-rays or MRIs are not admitted to the hospital. They don’t have wristbands.

With or without a wristband, hospitals know your sex. They know it because they ask you or they already have it.

So far I haven’t read a single sensible explanation of why, given the potential fir grave medics harm if they fail to ask the question if a pregnant person, it is a bad thing to ask all patients about potential pregnancies.


Well thank god there are never new patients or new personnel at hospitals!

I wonder what happens at medical facilities other than hospitals????

 

[Metaphor]

I get it that some men don't want to be asked that question.

I get it that some very sexist men might feel insulted and demeaned if they are asked that question.

While we're at it, let's ask everyone, including females, whether they might have an enlarged prostate. Let's ask everyone, including males, whether they might have fibroids, endometriosis, or ovarian cysts. Let's ask everyone, including females, if they have difficulty maintaining an erection. Let's ask everyone, including males, when their last mammogram was

I mean, we wouldn't want to miss anyone right? So let's just ask everyone everything, just in case. That makes perfect sense. Certainly it's waaaaay more sensible than asking a patient their sex, and then asking only those questions that are relevant to that sex, right?

YES!

Let's ask everyone the same questions about conditions that can affect treatment or bring about harmful results.

Let's get over being offended when hospital staff don't presume to know our sex

Hospitals do know your sex. It is on your wristband along with other demographics.

and reproductive capabilities and appreciate that we are being asked so that we can get the best care possible. Better safe than sorry, right? What exactly is the problem with that?

You've been told a dozen times what the problem is with the new policy.

What is the problem with the new policy?

I've written it out half a dozen times and I'm not going to do it again.

In the US usually only patients who are admitted to a hospital get wristbands. Many/most people who get X-rays or MRIs are not admitted to the hospital. They don’t have wristbands.

With or without a wristband, hospitals know your sex. They know it because they ask you or they already have it.

So far I haven’t read a single sensible explanation of why, given the potential fir grave medics harm if they fail to ask the question if a pregnant person, it is a bad thing to ask all patients about potential pregnancies.

Asked and answered a dozen times. I'm not going to do it again.

Well thank god there are never new patients or new personnel at hospitals!

You know what happens when a patient has never been in the system?

The hospital gets their details. It's fucking astonishing, isn't it?

I wonder what happens at medical facilities other than hospitals????

You mean, like my GP's office which has my sex on record?

 

[TSwizzle]

So far I haven’t read a single sensible explanation of why, given the potential fir grave medics harm if they fail to ask the question if a pregnant person, it is a bad thing to ask all patients about potential pregnancies.

I guarantee no fetus has ever been harmed during an MRI scan performed on a male. "pregnant person"? Women get pregnant.

 

[Toni]

So far I haven’t read a single sensible explanation of why, given the potential fir grave medics harm if they fail to ask the question if a pregnant person, it is a bad thing to ask all patients about potential pregnancies.

I guarantee no fetus has ever been harmed during an MRI scan performed on a male. "pregnant person"? Women get pregnant.

So do 11 year olds.

They’re not women.

 

[TSwizzle]

So far I haven’t read a single sensible explanation of why, given the potential fir grave medics harm if they fail to ask the question if a pregnant person, it is a bad thing to ask all patients about potential pregnancies.

I guarantee no fetus has ever been harmed during an MRI scan performed on a male. "pregnant person"? Women get pregnant.

So do 11 year olds.

They’re not women.

Would that be female 11 year olds?

 

[Toni]

So far I haven’t read a single sensible explanation of why, given the potential fir grave medics harm if they fail to ask the question if a pregnant person, it is a bad thing to ask all patients about potential pregnancies.

I guarantee no fetus has ever been harmed during an MRI scan performed on a male. "pregnant person"? Women get pregnant.

So do 11 year olds.

They’re not women.

Would that be female 11 year olds?

Do you believe that all women get pregnant?

Do you believe that all women can get pregnant?

Do you believe that only women get pregnant

I’ve posted up thread a thread about a man who had a baby. He’s not the only one.

 

[TSwizzle]

So far I haven’t read a single sensible explanation of why, given the potential fir grave medics harm if they fail to ask the question if a pregnant person, it is a bad thing to ask all patients about potential pregnancies.

I guarantee no fetus has ever been harmed during an MRI scan performed on a male. "pregnant person"? Women get pregnant.

So do 11 year olds.

They’re not women.

Would that be female 11 year olds?

Do you believe that all women get pregnant?

Do you believe that all women can get pregnant?

Do you believe that only women get pregnant

I’ve posted up thread a thread about a man who had a baby. He’s not the only one.

No.
No.
I do know only women get pregnant.
He didn't get pregnant.

 

[Emily Lake]

Let's get over being offended when hospital staff don't presume to know our sex and reproductive capabilities and appreciate that we are being asked so that we can get the best care possible. Better safe than sorry, right? What exactly is the problem with that?

THAT is the problem.

Your entire argument hinges on this flawed premise that the staff is presuming to know a person's sex, rather than asking and recording their sex. It also seems to be vaguely premised on the notion that sex-specific illnesses aren't known to be sex-specific.

Basically, your argument seems to be that 1) staff will just look at a person and make an assumption about their sex and then 2) even if they do actually know your sex they can't really be sure whether a female has a prostate or not.

Let's not even get into the downstream impact of this. If you can't even expect medical staff to know the basics of human anatomy, how the hell do you think any child will ever be able to learn? We're going to be right back to the dark ages where girls (not boys in some magical mystery) end up getting pregnant because nobody ever told them how sex works and they just had no idea that sticking a penis inside a vagina and ejaculating there could maybe make a baby grow! It's going to be such a serious scientific mystery trying to figure out why only about half of the population seems to be getting knocked up, and the other half is never able to conceive no matter how hard they wish for the stork to drop by.

 

[Emily Lake]

So far I haven’t read a single sensible explanation of why, given the potential fir grave medics harm if they fail to ask the question if a pregnant person, it is a bad thing to ask all patients about potential pregnancies.

I guarantee no fetus has ever been harmed during an MRI scan performed on a male. "pregnant person"? Women get pregnant.

So do 11 year olds.

They’re not women.

Yeah, great play on words. They may not be legal women, but the sure as fuck aren't male.

 

[Toni]

So far I haven’t read a single sensible explanation of why, given the potential fir grave medics harm if they fail to ask the question if a pregnant person, it is a bad thing to ask all patients about potential pregnancies.

I guarantee no fetus has ever been harmed during an MRI scan performed on a male. "pregnant person"? Women get pregnant.

So do 11 year olds.

They’re not women.

Yeah, great play on words. They may not be legal women, but the sure as fuck aren't male.

Pregnant 11 year olds have nothing to do with ‘play.’

 

[Emily Lake]

Do you believe that all women get pregnant?

Of course not.

Do you believe that all women can get pregnant?

Of course not.

Do you believe that only women get pregnant

100% absolutely yes.

I’ve posted up thread a thread about a man who had a baby. He’s not the only one.

No, you posted about a woman who took exogenous hormones and had surgery so that they looked like a man.

Look, this is some basic entry level logic.

If A Then B. This implies that If NotB then NotA.
It does NOT imply If B Then A, nor does it imply If NotA then NotB.

So here we go: If a person can get pregnant, then that person is a female.
What does that imply?
It implies that if a person is not female, then that person cannot get pregnant.

What does it fail to imply?
It fails to imply that if a person is female, then they can get pregnant
It fails to imply that if a person cannot get pregnant, then they are not female

Across ALL mammalian species, only females can get pregnant. Across ALL mammalian species, males cannot get pregnant.

 

[Emily Lake]

So far I haven’t read a single sensible explanation of why, given the potential fir grave medics harm if they fail to ask the question if a pregnant person, it is a bad thing to ask all patients about potential pregnancies.

I guarantee no fetus has ever been harmed during an MRI scan performed on a male. "pregnant person"? Women get pregnant.

So do 11 year olds.

They’re not women.

Yeah, great play on words. They may not be legal women, but the sure as fuck aren't male.

Pregnant 11 year olds have nothing to do with ‘play.’

Play on the word "woman".

Seriously, are you at the point of pretending to not understand the phrase "play on words"?

 

[Metaphor]

So far I haven’t read a single sensible explanation of why, given the potential fir grave medics harm if they fail to ask the question if a pregnant person, it is a bad thing to ask all patients about potential pregnancies.

I guarantee no fetus has ever been harmed during an MRI scan performed on a male. "pregnant person"? Women get pregnant.

So do 11 year olds.

They’re not women.

Yeah, great play on words. They may not be legal women, but the sure as fuck aren't male.

Pregnant 11 year olds have nothing to do with ‘play.’

Play on the word "woman".

Seriously, are you at the point of pretending to not understand the phrase "play on words"?

Yes, she is.

 

[Toni]

Do you believe that all women get pregnant?

Of course not.

Do you believe that all women can get pregnant?

Of course not.

Do you believe that only women get pregnant

100% absolutely yes.

I’ve posted up thread a thread about a man who had a baby. He’s not the only one.

No, you posted about a woman who took exogenous hormones and had surgery so that they looked like a man.

Look, this is some basic entry level logic.

If A Then B. This implies that If NotB then NotA.
It does NOT imply If B Then A, nor does it imply If NotA then NotB.

So here we go: If a person can get pregnant, then that person is a female.
What does that imply?
It implies that if a person is not female, then that person cannot get pregnant.

What does it fail to imply?
It fails to imply that if a person is female, then they can get pregnant
It fails to imply that if a person cannot get pregnant, then they are not female

Across ALL mammalian species, only females can get pregnant. Across ALL mammalian species, males cannot get pregnant.

So pregnant 11 year olds are women? Of course not.

Again: what harm is caused by asking all patients if they might be pregnant?

 

[Metaphor]

Do you believe that all women get pregnant?

Of course not.

Do you believe that all women can get pregnant?

Of course not.

Do you believe that only women get pregnant

100% absolutely yes.

I’ve posted up thread a thread about a man who had a baby. He’s not the only one.

No, you posted about a woman who took exogenous hormones and had surgery so that they looked like a man.

Look, this is some basic entry level logic.

If A Then B. This implies that If NotB then NotA.
It does NOT imply If B Then A, nor does it imply If NotA then NotB.

So here we go: If a person can get pregnant, then that person is a female.
What does that imply?
It implies that if a person is not female, then that person cannot get pregnant.

What does it fail to imply?
It fails to imply that if a person is female, then they can get pregnant
It fails to imply that if a person cannot get pregnant, then they are not female

Across ALL mammalian species, only females can get pregnant. Across ALL mammalian species, males cannot get pregnant.

So pregnant 11 year olds are women? Of course not.

Again: what harm is caused by asking all patients if they might be pregnant?

Asked and answered a dozen times.

 

[Emily Lake]

So pregnant 11 year olds are women? Of course not.

Again. this is a stupid play on the word "woman". That 11 year old is NOT A MALE so your bait and switch with the term "woman" is ridiculous.

According to LEGAL terminology, that 11 year old is not a woman, because she is not a LEGAL adult. But according to fucking biology, the fact that she conceived is absolutely evidence that she is a sexually adult female of the human species.

JFC. If a surprisingly young filly gets preggers, that filly is a mare.

 

[Arctish]

I get it that some men don't want to be asked that question.

I get it that some very sexist men might feel insulted and demeaned if they are asked that question.

While we're at it, let's ask everyone, including females, whether they might have an enlarged prostate. Let's ask everyone, including males, whether they might have fibroids, endometriosis, or ovarian cysts. Let's ask everyone, including females, if they have difficulty maintaining an erection. Let's ask everyone, including males, when their last mammogram was

I mean, we wouldn't want to miss anyone right? So let's just ask everyone everything, just in case. That makes perfect sense. Certainly it's waaaaay more sensible than asking a patient their sex, and then asking only those questions that are relevant to that sex, right?

YES!

Let's ask everyone the same questions about conditions that can affect treatment or bring about harmful results.

Let's get over being offended when hospital staff don't presume to know our sex

Hospitals do know your sex. It is on your wristband along with other demographics.

Did the hospital staff do a thorough exam in order to determine your sex or are they relying on you to self report things you've never actually examined yourself?

Also, are hospitals infallible? Is there a higher power ensuring that the F and M designations are always accurate and only the correct patient is wearing the correct wristband?

and reproductive capabilities and appreciate that we are being asked so that we can get the best care possible. Better safe than sorry, right? What exactly is the problem with that?

You've been told a dozen times what the problem is with the new policy.

I've been told you don't like it. I've been told you think asking males if they might be pregnant is "ableist".

"Ableism is the discrimination of and social prejudice against people with disabilities based on the belief that typical abilities are superior. At its heart, ableism is rooted in the assumption that disabled people require 'fixing' and defines people by their disability." <link>

It appears you are arguing that hospital staff are making males feel bad about themselves because males can't get pregnant. But since that's silly I didn't take that argument seriously.

I've been told you don't like it because it might confuse ESL speakers. But since confusion is a common occurrence and competent people know to ask for clarification while incompetent people are typically escorted by competent caregivers when they're in hospital, I didn't take this argument seriously, either.

I've been told you think some males might feel insulted and demeaned if they were asked if they might be pregnant. I have been taking this one seriously because I think it's stupid and sexist for males to feel that way.

And I've been told you think there were no incidents of pregnant people being exposed to things that can harm a fetus before the policy changed and that you think the change was politically motivated. I think you're being ridiculously optimistic about there being no problems. Even the most thorough checklists and protocols developed by the most knowledgeable professionals can have flaws that are only discovered when things go terribly wrong. And so what if the change was politically motivated? Most improvements in society are.

When I ask you what's the problem with hospital staff asking everyone if they might be pregnant I'm giving you the chance to explain your thinking in greater detail. I'm pretty sure I already know why you don't like.

 

[Emily Lake]

Did the hospital staff do a thorough exam in order to determine your sex or are they relying on you to self report things you've never actually examined yourself?

Does the hospital staff do a thorough exam of every person, male or female, to determine whether they're pregnant, or are they relying on the patient to self report whether they could be pregnant?

Why do you think that a patient will be able to accurately and honestly provide an answer for being pregnant... but is unable to know whether they're of the sex capable of getting pregnant in the first place?

"Well gee doc, I'm really not sure if I'm male or female, I'm not a biologist after all, and I haven't had extensive testing done... but I'm absolutely certain that I'm not pregnant!"

 

[Emily Lake]

It appears you are arguing that hospital staff are making males feel bad about themselves because males can't get pregnant.

Honestly, I think it undermines trust in hospital staff since they seem unable to understand that males can't get pregnant.