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Mar-a-Largo raided by FBI?

Copernicus said:
I had a clearance in the past, so I understand the rules. A rando who came across classified papers and just read them without knowing the law would probably not be prosecuted, although classified documents are usually marked. Witnesses have sworn under oath that Trump was informed about the law. If he chose to disbelieve what his advisors told him, that would probably not count as a bona fide excuse, although I wouldn't be surprised if there were now some sitting federal judges who would accept it as an excuse. I don't think that the Supreme Court would, with the possible exceptions of Thomas and Alito.
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I just saw a few days ago a White House reporter found a classified document in a WH bathroom. She immediately took it to the authorities with no repercussions on her.
 
marc said:
Thinking about the 'why' he kept all those documents, even when was forced to hand them over months ago and only handed over some of them. There has been speculation about him wanting to sell them, or hand them over to Putin. I think the answer is simpler than that. I think it is because he is a greedy narcissist, who felt that all that stuff became his when he was president. On his way out he grabbed whatever he thought was really valuable. He didn't bother securing it, because he was in his home now. A dragon in his lair, adding new trinkets to his hoard.
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TROPHIES!!!! 🏆
 
starwater said:
marc said:
Thinking about the 'why' he kept all those documents, even when was forced to hand them over months ago and only handed over some of them. There has been speculation about him wanting to sell them, or hand them over to Putin. I think the answer is simpler than that. I think it is because he is a greedy narcissist, who felt that all that stuff became his when he was president. On his way out he grabbed whatever he thought was really valuable. He didn't bother securing it, because he was in his home now. A dragon in his lair, adding new trinkets to his hoard.
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TROPHIES!!!! 🏆
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Maybe we can bring Trump some gold [[plated steel]] wrist "trophies". Maybe give him a gold [[plated steel]] "trophy room". Give him some gold [[plated plastic]] trophies to keep there, and maybe a silver[[ed polished steel]] mirror to admire themselves in so they bother everyone else in their new home a little less.

I would say a gold [[plated steel]] toilet but by now we all know that they don't need that and couldn't use it properly anyway...
 
I'm suprised he's not trying for a bullshit argument like "I was trying to protect critical national secrets from the incoming administration I earnestly believed to have stolen the election."
 
Politesse said:
I'm suprised he's not trying for a bullshit argument like "I was trying to protect critical national secrets from the incoming administration I earnestly believed to have stolen the election."
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Generally, I have been trying as of late to not present such flawed arguments that would be convenient for bad faith to pick up.

"Don't give em ideas."
 
Eh, it wouldn't help his legal case much. The only defense he has is that he's Trump, and you just can't prosecute Trump. Which will probably be sufficient, now as always in his pampered life. But if it ever stops being sufficient, prosecutions for espionage are not as easy to deflect with a smile and a celebrity signature as are parking tickets or tax evasion penalties.
 
bilby said:
Bronzeage said:
On the whole, Nixon was a good President, as long as you aren't South Vietnamese.
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I don't think the North Vietnamese liked him very much either.
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This is a potential derail, but Nixon and Kissinger negotiated a deal behind the backs of the South Vietnamese which basically said, "Give us our POWs, let us get out with what we have, and whatever happens after that, we're not in it." The North Vietnamese were actually quite happy with Nixon in the end.
 
Bronzeage said:
bilby said:
Bronzeage said:
On the whole, Nixon was a good President, as long as you aren't South Vietnamese.
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I don't think the North Vietnamese liked him very much either.
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This is a potential derail, but Nixon and Kissinger negotiated a deal behind the backs of the South Vietnamese which basically said, "Give us our POWs, let us get out with what we have, and whatever happens after that, we're not in it." The North Vietnamese were actually quite happy with Nixon in the end.
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Yes, that's a derail.

Also, damn I wish that weren't such a plausible explanation.
Tom
 
FBI’s Mar-a-Lago search followed months of resistance, delay by Trump - The Washington Post.\

Some of Trump’s allies have blamed the rushed and haphazard packing process during Trump’s final days in office for the presence of documents the FBI found in Trump’s bedroom, office and a first-floor storage room at Mar-a-Lago on Aug. 8. But the key events that led to the FBI search took place only this year, after months of slow-rolling conflict between the former president and law enforcement agencies.

Some material recovered in the search is considered extraordinarily sensitive, two people familiar with the search said, because it could reveal carefully guarded secrets about U.S. intelligence-gathering methods. One of them said the information is “among the most sensitive secrets we hold.”
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After Trump’s term ended in January 2021, Archives officials identified various high-profile items that had not been sent to their collection and requested they be located and turned over. What followed was a tortured standoff among Trump; some of his own advisers, who urged the return of documents; and the bureaucrats charged by the law with maintaining and protecting presidential records. Trump only agreed to return some of the documents after a National Archives official asked a Trump adviser for help, saying they may have to soon refer the matter to Congress or the Justice Department.

Nearly a year later, on Jan. 17, 2022, Trump returned 15 boxes of newspaper clips, presidential briefing papers, handwritten notes and assorted mementos to the National Archives. That was supposed to settle the issue.

Instead, when Archives employees began opening up and sifting through the material, they noticed an immediate problem. The boxes arrived without any kind of logs or inventories to describe their content, according to a person familiar with the recovery. Instead, they contained a hodgepodge of documents, including some that didn’t even come from Trump’s time in the White House.
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It could not be determined who was involved with packing the boxes at Mar-a-Lago or why some White House documents were not sent to the Archives, though people familiar with the episode said Trump oversaw the process himself — and did so with great secrecy, declining to show some items even to top aides. Philbin and another adviser who was contacted by the Archives in April have told others that they had not been involved with the process and were surprised by the discovery of classified records.
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marc said:
Thinking about the 'why' he kept all those documents, even when was forced to hand them over months ago and only handed over some of them. There has been speculation about him wanting to sell them, or hand them over to Putin. I think the answer is simpler than that. I think it is because he is a greedy narcissist, who felt that all that stuff became his when he was president. On his way out he grabbed whatever he thought was really valuable. He didn't bother securing it, because he was in his home now. A dragon in his lair, adding new trinkets to his hoard.
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Sell? It’s quite possible that all along Trump has been a Russian operative. Compromised decades ago, and kept a closely guarded secret. I wouldn’t be surprised if we found out that he was engaged in actual espionage against the US and was handing these documents over to the Russians. once they have you compromised, you do what they tell regardless of whether they pay you, and I doubt they pay much anyways.
 
SLD said:
marc said:
Thinking about the 'why' he kept all those documents, even when was forced to hand them over months ago and only handed over some of them. There has been speculation about him wanting to sell them, or hand them over to Putin. I think the answer is simpler than that. I think it is because he is a greedy narcissist, who felt that all that stuff became his when he was president. On his way out he grabbed whatever he thought was really valuable. He didn't bother securing it, because he was in his home now. A dragon in his lair, adding new trinkets to his hoard.
Click to expand...
Sell? It’s quite possible that all along Trump has been a Russian operative. Compromised decades ago, and kept a closely guarded secret. I wouldn’t be surprised if we found out that he was engaged in actual espionage against the US and was handing these documents over to the Russians. once they have you compromised, you do what they tell regardless of whether they pay you, and I doubt they pay much anyways.
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Disagree--he's too stupid to be a Russian agent.

Now, I wouldn't be shocked if someone near him has been compromised, though...
 
Loren Pechtel said:
SLD said:
marc said:
Thinking about the 'why' he kept all those documents, even when was forced to hand them over months ago and only handed over some of them. There has been speculation about him wanting to sell them, or hand them over to Putin. I think the answer is simpler than that. I think it is because he is a greedy narcissist, who felt that all that stuff became his when he was president. On his way out he grabbed whatever he thought was really valuable. He didn't bother securing it, because he was in his home now. A dragon in his lair, adding new trinkets to his hoard.
Click to expand...
Sell? It’s quite possible that all along Trump has been a Russian operative. Compromised decades ago, and kept a closely guarded secret. I wouldn’t be surprised if we found out that he was engaged in actual espionage against the US and was handing these documents over to the Russians. once they have you compromised, you do what they tell regardless of whether they pay you, and I doubt they pay much anyways.
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Disagree--he's too stupid to be a Russian agent.

Now, I wouldn't be shocked if someone near him has been compromised, though...
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I wouldn't say he is a Russian agent, but I do think he is probably a Russian asset. Someone corrupt that they could manipulate, giving him loans when no one else would, playing to his ego. Those meetings with Putin where he either ripped up the translator's notes, or ones where there was no US official with him at all? The time he let Russian 'journalists' into the oval office? He probably passed along all kinds of useful information. Maybe not in the mindset of "I must sneak these secrets to Russia", but in the mindset of "My buddy Vlad asked about X, and I had to tell him we got a beautiful setup, the best you've ever seen."

Anyway, I was just positing a theory of why he might have kept the documents, other than the ones that would apply to just about any rational person.
 
Loren Pechtel said:
SLD said:
marc said:
Thinking about the 'why' he kept all those documents, even when was forced to hand them over months ago and only handed over some of them. There has been speculation about him wanting to sell them, or hand them over to Putin. I think the answer is simpler than that. I think it is because he is a greedy narcissist, who felt that all that stuff became his when he was president. On his way out he grabbed whatever he thought was really valuable. He didn't bother securing it, because he was in his home now. A dragon in his lair, adding new trinkets to his hoard.
Click to expand...
Sell? It’s quite possible that all along Trump has been a Russian operative. Compromised decades ago, and kept a closely guarded secret. I wouldn’t be surprised if we found out that he was engaged in actual espionage against the US and was handing these documents over to the Russians. once they have you compromised, you do what they tell regardless of whether they pay you, and I doubt they pay much anyways.
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Disagree--he's too stupid to be a Russian agent.

Now, I wouldn't be shocked if someone near him has been compromised, though...
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Trump is compromised, if by nothing else, economics. He is stupid, but he at least had mechanisms available to facilitate laundering money. And if he could launder money by selling real estate and condos, building developers would be willing to pay him to put his name on buildings.
 
DonaldTrumpsLaptopWEB.jpg
 
It is quite unbelievable that he wanted to keep the Kim Jong Un letter as some sort of trophy of his, as if that was a positive thing for the country or even himself. He is so deluded.
 
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