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Minimum Wage Study - MW Does Not Kill Jobs

More nonsense. A minimum wage does not restrict the labor pool. Employers are free to hire anyone they wish as long as they pay the legal minimum wage. Employers may opt to only hire those who they believe to add to their profits, but that is true at any wage, legal minimum or free market wage.
Economics 101: Raise the price and demand will drop.

You still haven't explained why this doesn't apply to labor.
First, you failed Econ 101 - All other things equal, an increase in price causes a reduction in the amount demanded, not the relationship between price and quantity demanded (I.e. demand). An increase in price is a movement along the demand curve, not a movement in the demand curve.

Second, nothing I wrote suggests that the demand for labor is not downward sloping.

So, I have nothing to explain.
 
In the long run the cost of labor is the entire cost of production.

Yabut ...
The opposite is equally true - in the long run the cost of stuff is the entire cost of production. Any labor is just paying people to assemble stuff into value-added forms of stuff or move stuff to new, more useful locations where value can be added.
Just a matter of perspective. I don't see the real world utility of either paradigm, but I'm frankly terrible with money. :)
All is labor is very relevant because you can't increase labor's share--it's already 100%.
What about products that reduce the labor required to make other products? Is the labor to produce those products on another order, or is it just the product that is on another level?
 
More nonsense. A minimum wage does not restrict the labor pool. Employers are free to hire anyone they wish as long as they pay the legal minimum wage. Employers may opt to only hire those who they believe to add to their profits, but that is true at any wage, legal minimum or free market wage.
Economics 101: Raise the price and demand will drop.

You still haven't explained why this doesn't apply to labor.
Are there other commodities whose price is also an exact measure of the demand they create in the economy?

There are certainly not many whose price is directly and unavoidably a prerequisite for the existence of demand.

If you pay more for a fry-cook, he will buy more stuff.

If you pay more for a hamburger, it won't buy anything (hamburgers are not renowned as big spenders); And the money has a long and torturous path to travel before it all re-emerges as demand. A big chunk of it likely ends up in financial derivatives and/or offshore accounts belonging to the guy who owns the restaurant chain. Fry-cooks rarely have large savings accounts or big investment portfolios.
 
Fry-cooks rarely have large savings accounts or big investment portfolios.

Oh I dunno. I hear Spongebob is doing quite well.
 
I understand what a null hypothesis is. I have a background in science.

You are only looking at a single instance with one employer leaving because of minimum wage. You are ignoring the decades of data that show that poverty decreased after a minimum wage was instituted. You are also ignoring the high rate of poverty for those in occupations that do not have a minimum wage: agriculture workers, undocumented workers in food service and food processing: those who have no better options.
Then you should also understand that correlation doesn't prove causation.
Of course, a viable option would be for the employers to take a somewhat less enormous profit and pay their workers a decent wage.
And everyone above minimum wage demands wage increases, also--you end up with inflation but no lasting gain.
I think you are the one who is confusing correlation with causation.

Why do you think that paying workers a decent wage harms the economy? When I hear people say things like that, I think what they are really saying is that the eco y that best benefits them, personally, is an economy that relies in a permanent underclass, wh o might be some small step above actual slaves but who don’t actually deserve more than to do the difficult, dirty, dangerous work at less compensation than will allow them to securely maintain a roof over their head, food and necessities. People who think that seem to believe that only some people deserve a good education, good health care, a good neighborhood, safety. The ones who can afford it. Who won’t bring down the home values in THEIR neighborhood.
Two issues:

1) The end result is simply inflating away the gains.

2) You're ignoring the unemployment that results. Studies that can't hope to see an effect are not evidence that there's no effect.
 
More nonsense. A minimum wage does not restrict the labor pool. Employers are free to hire anyone they wish as long as they pay the legal minimum wage. Employers may opt to only hire those who they believe to add to their profits, but that is true at any wage, legal minimum or free market wage.
Economics 101: Raise the price and demand will drop.

You still haven't explained why this doesn't apply to labor.
First, you failed Econ 101 - All other things equal, an increase in price causes a reduction in the amount demanded, not the relationship between price and quantity demanded (I.e. demand). An increase in price is a movement along the demand curve, not a movement in the demand curve.

Second, nothing I wrote suggests that the demand for labor is not downward sloping.

So, I have nothing to explain.
I simplified it a bit but you're not rebutting me.

Increase the price, decrease the demand. People go unemployed.
 
In the long run the cost of labor is the entire cost of production. Anything that's not labor is actually buying somebody else's labor.
So in the long run, Marx was right!
Marx made one huge, fundamental blunder in assuming a static world.
Marx did no such thing.
His theories only work in a static world. His world can't cope with new technology and can't cope with population increase. It's not even going to fare too well with things wearing out.
 
In the long run the cost of labor is the entire cost of production.

Yabut ...
The opposite is equally true - in the long run the cost of stuff is the entire cost of production. Any labor is just paying people to assemble stuff into value-added forms of stuff or move stuff to new, more useful locations where value can be added.
Just a matter of perspective. I don't see the real world utility of either paradigm, but I'm frankly terrible with money. :)
All is labor is very relevant because you can't increase labor's share--it's already 100%.
What about products that reduce the labor required to make other products? Is the labor to produce those products on another order, or is it just the product that is on another level?
Those products require labor to make.

Note that I am not supporting Marx's idea that the value is what it took to make it--that only works in a static world. In a dynamic world you invent a cheaper way to make it, everyone profits but you collect a disproportionate share of the benefit. (In the end there will be a new equilibrium where your way becomes the standard.)

I am not saying that things will be balanced in the short run. They most clearly will not. Rather, I'm saying there's a continual pressure towards balance that will eventually overcome any force which shoves it off that balance. Think of those kids toys that are a simple figure with a rounded bottom and a very low center of gravity--no matter how much you knock them around they always stand up. They'll wobble around as they stand up but they always return to the same position in a bit.
 
More nonsense. A minimum wage does not restrict the labor pool. Employers are free to hire anyone they wish as long as they pay the legal minimum wage. Employers may opt to only hire those who they believe to add to their profits, but that is true at any wage, legal minimum or free market wage.
Economics 101: Raise the price and demand will drop.

You still haven't explained why this doesn't apply to labor.
Are there other commodities whose price is also an exact measure of the demand they create in the economy?

There are certainly not many whose price is directly and unavoidably a prerequisite for the existence of demand.

If you pay more for a fry-cook, he will buy more stuff.

If you pay more for a hamburger, it won't buy anything (hamburgers are not renowned as big spenders); And the money has a long and torturous path to travel before it all re-emerges as demand. A big chunk of it likely ends up in financial derivatives and/or offshore accounts belonging to the guy who owns the restaurant chain. Fry-cooks rarely have large savings accounts or big investment portfolios.
The path being long and torturous does not mean the money doesn't follow it even if you can't trace an individual buck.

And the reality is that it's not likely to end up in offshore accounts or the like--the restaurant business is low margin and with a high rate of failure. The owners aren't raking it in like you think.
 
In the end there will be a new equilibrium where your way becomes the standard.
No, there is no end. Economies are continuums (continuae?), not goal seeking entities. Products evolve, as you have surely noticed, and much of that evolution manifests as products that obviate human labor in the process of production. Even once humans are no longer needed to perform a particular production function, it will continue to evolve and get better faster cheaper over time. There is nothing like equilibrium in the production of stuff, and virtually none in its use or consumption.

For some reason I’m thinking about Wonder Bread “(builds strong bodies 12 ways!”)
 
I simplified it a bit but you're not rebutting me.

Increase the price, decrease the demand. People go unemployed.
Repetition of ignorance is neither a rebuttal or a justification of the ignorance.

In your partial equilibrium analysis of a general equilibrium situation, that reduction in the amount of labor used does not restrict the labor pool as you claimed because the amount of labor available to use has not fallen.
 
His theories only work in a static world. His world can't cope with new technology and can't cope with population increase. It's not even going to fare too well with things wearing out.
While I am not a Marxist and a discussion of Marx is a derail, you clearly are unfamiliar with Marx’s economic views because you are mistaken.
 
More nonsense. A minimum wage does not restrict the labor pool. Employers are free to hire anyone they wish as long as they pay the legal minimum wage. Employers may opt to only hire those who they believe to add to their profits, but that is true at any wage, legal minimum or free market wage.
Economics 101: Raise the price and demand will drop.

You still haven't explained why this doesn't apply to labor.
Are there other commodities whose price is also an exact measure of the demand they create in the economy?

There are certainly not many whose price is directly and unavoidably a prerequisite for the existence of demand.

If you pay more for a fry-cook, he will buy more stuff.

If you pay more for a hamburger, it won't buy anything (hamburgers are not renowned as big spenders); And the money has a long and torturous path to travel before it all re-emerges as demand. A big chunk of it likely ends up in financial derivatives and/or offshore accounts belonging to the guy who owns the restaurant chain. Fry-cooks rarely have large savings accounts or big investment portfolios.
The path being long and torturous does not mean the money doesn't follow it even if you can't trace an individual buck.

And the reality is that it's not likely to end up in offshore accounts or the like--the restaurant business is low margin and with a high rate of failure. The owners aren't raking it in like you think.
McDonalds March Quarter net profit margin was 30.56%.

The owners are over 70% institutional investors.

If you paid their cooks an extra $10/week, that $10 would immediately create additional demand in the locality of the store.

If you don't, the "saving" is unlikely to create much demand at all, unless you're hoping to boost the economy in the Cayman Islands or Liechtenstein.
 
More nonsense. A minimum wage does not restrict the labor pool. Employers are free to hire anyone they wish as long as they pay the legal minimum wage. Employers may opt to only hire those who they believe to add to their profits, but that is true at any wage, legal minimum or free market wage.
Economics 101: Raise the price and demand will drop.

You still haven't explained why this doesn't apply to labor.
Who is demanding and who is supplying?

Econ 101 has two other concepts to consider, "pent up demand/supply" and "marginal propensity."

When overall unemployment is at a low level, there will be people who think minimum wage is not worth the effort. This can be due to the costs associated with getting to work every day in a clean shirt. The cost of child care is currently a great disincentive. A raise in wages will create incentive for more people to seek work. Each increment in pay will increase job applicants.
 
Some people seem to just feel more comfortable with the idea of some kind of underclass that society doesn’t have to do much for. We can’t blame it on the color of their skin anymore without being called out as racists. So we just use proxies: Some people just lack ambition. Their parents didn’t care enough to get them into good schools. They’re lazy. They have no work ethic. Genetics shows that some people just aren’t that smart.
This is the  Mudsill theory - "the proposition that there must be, and always has been, a lower class or underclass for the upper classes and the rest of society to rest upon. The term derives from a mudsill, the lowest threshold that supports the foundation for a building."
The theory was first articulated by James Hammond, a Democratic United States senator from South Carolina and a wealthy Southern plantation owner, in a speech on March 4, 1858. Hammond argued that every society must find a class of people to do menial labor, whether called slaves or not, and that assigning that status on a racial basis followed natural law, while the Northern United States' social class of white wage laborers presented a revolutionary threat.
 James Henry Hammond - slave-plantation owner and slavery apologist. However,
Hammond rejected any government encroachment on slaveholding, even in wartime. When the South Carolina government requisitioned 16 of his slaves to improve fortifications for Charleston, he refused, calling it "wrong every way and odious." Also, when a Confederate army officer stopped by to requisition some grain, he tore up the requisition order, tossed it out a window, and wrote about it that it compensated him too little, and that it was like "branding on my forehead: 'Slave'".
Objecting that the Confederate government made him feel enslaved.
 
More nonsense. A minimum wage does not restrict the labor pool. Employers are free to hire anyone they wish as long as they pay the legal minimum wage. Employers may opt to only hire those who they believe to add to their profits, but that is true at any wage, legal minimum or free market wage.
Economics 101: Raise the price and demand will drop.

You still haven't explained why this doesn't apply to labor.
Are there other commodities whose price is also an exact measure of the demand they create in the economy?

There are certainly not many whose price is directly and unavoidably a prerequisite for the existence of demand.

If you pay more for a fry-cook, he will buy more stuff.

If you pay more for a hamburger, it won't buy anything (hamburgers are not renowned as big spenders); And the money has a long and torturous path to travel before it all re-emerges as demand. A big chunk of it likely ends up in financial derivatives and/or offshore accounts belonging to the guy who owns the restaurant chain. Fry-cooks rarely have large savings accounts or big investment portfolios.
The path being long and torturous does not mean the money doesn't follow it even if you can't trace an individual buck.

And the reality is that it's not likely to end up in offshore accounts or the like--the restaurant business is low margin and with a high rate of failure. The owners aren't raking it in like you think.
McDonalds March Quarter net profit margin was 30.56%.

The owners are over 70% institutional investors.

If you paid their cooks an extra $10/week, that $10 would immediately create additional demand in the locality of the store.

If you don't, the "saving" is unlikely to create much demand at all, unless you're hoping to boost the economy in the Cayman Islands or Liechtenstein.
Billy: are you assuming that most restaurants have this kind of net margin?
 
It was instituted to keep blacks out of most jobs. Very easy to find on Google:


Just look at the unemployment rate for teens in the inner city, it's still doing it's job of keeping the black man down.

Offering lower wages to blacks is racist and even more effective at keeping the black man down.
What you're missing is that minimum wage is about chopping off the bottom runs of the ladder of success. Make sure those at the bottom have no way out. The Republicans are frequently (and quite correctly) accused of this but the left also comes up with ways because the only true route they have to raise wages is to reduce the labor pool.

You posted an apologetic for allowing lower wages based on race and now you're saying I'm missing something? Here's what you're missing. Don't post your racist crap at me and expect I won't call you on your racism.

Don't be a racist.

And then I won't call you out on it.
Where did I say anything about wanting a lower minimum wage based on race?! I'm simply pointing to the people that are the biggest victims--showing that it's not just a minor harm. The issue is actually the inner cities, not race, it's just the inner cities are mostly black so that's where the biggest effect falls.
Strikes me as concern trolling, the sort of argument that its advocates would dismiss as "woke" just about anywhere else.
 
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