Mueller investigation

[RavenSky]

A thought. Will Trump be a Nixon, with plumbers, enemy lists and other activities like this?

Or will he be an Agnew, taken down by a tawdry little scandal? Agnew took kickbacks and did not report them or pay taxes and was busted for tax fraud because of that.

Or maybe Trump will do a Saturday Night Massacre type stunt that goes beyond the pale and takes him down.
Place your bets now.

Trump has already exceed Nixon-like crimes; and Agnew type kickbacks is just a normal day in business for the orange fuckwad.

I expect and fear that Trump's last act will be something horrific - like bombing North Korea

 

[RavenSky]

George Takei on Twitter:

Who knew MAGA stood for "Manafort And Gates Arrested"

 

[hurtinbuckaroo]

Based on the wording of the plea deal, lawyers are speculating that Papadopoulos may have worn a wire as part of being a "proactive cooperator".

That would be interesting.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Based on the wording of the plea deal, lawyers are speculating that Papadopoulos may have worn a wire as part of being a "proactive cooperator".

I don't know about that, but I reviewed his deal and information related to his case. I noticed two things:
(1) he got off very, very lightly in their recommendation;
(2) he did not do an Alford plea but instead admitted to all information as accurate.

So I was thinking something with some similarity, in that he gave them up. If so, that would most likely be Trump Jr who seems to have been talking to the Russians, too. It would be weird if that were independent.

 

[RavenSky]

I have to give Mueller and his team mad props for how tight his organization is. Not even a whisper of Papadopoulos' conviction until today.

Quite a contrast to Trump's clown car.

 

[barbos]

Is it time to bomb North Korea yet?

 

[Trausti]

Based on the wording of the plea deal, lawyers are speculating that Papadopoulos may have worn a wire as part of being a "proactive cooperator".

I don't know about that, but I reviewed his deal and information related to his case. I noticed two things:
(1) he got off very, very lightly in their recommendation;
(2) he did not do an Alford plea but instead admitted to all information as accurate.

So I was thinking something with some similarity, in that he gave them up. If so, that would most likely be Trump Jr who seems to have been talking to the Russians, too. It would be weird if that were independent.

Of course he got off lightly. All he did was stupidly lie about insignificant contacts. If you read the [url="https://www.scribd.com/document/363012659/Papadopolous-Pleads-Guilty-to-Making-False-Statements-to-FBI#from_embed] Statement of Offense [/url] it's rather clear that he was just an eager newbie who wanted to impress. His main goal throughout was to set up a "high level" meeting between Trump and Putin. (Recall that previous presidential candidates have done the same thing with foreign leaders.) Clinton emails only come up once and are never pursued. Papadopolous got off lightly because his only crime was lying. Had he simply told the truth he would have been ignored.

 

[Underseer]

Hey, conservolibertarians, how's that nothingburger taste?

Oh right, you're still trying to argue that the dossier is the only evidence against Trump, and if only you can discredit that, then Trump is in the clear.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Time will tell if Manafort and Gates have nothing to offer, as Trump's cronies insist. The specter of long prison terms can have sobering effects on people.

 

[Underseer]

Time will tell if Manafort and Gates have nothing to offer, as Trump's cronies insist. The specter of long prison terms can have sobering effects on people.

They've been indicted for "conspiracy against the United States."

 

[Underseer]

I can't wait to hear what conspiracy theory they use to dismiss the indictments. Was the judge paid off by George Soros? Is Mueller connected to pizza-gate?

 

[Underseer]

Trae Crowder tries to anticipate conservative responses to this. Sounds plausible enough.

I mean sure, the former campaign manager was indicted for "conspiracy against the United States," but that doesn't mean there's any connection to the campaign!

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Time will tell if Manafort and Gates have nothing to offer, as Trump's cronies insist. The specter of long prison terms can have sobering effects on people.

You KNOW they do. The whole point of arresting them is that they need corroborating evidence that Donald Trump knew the Russians were trying to feed him information about the Clinton emails. He publicly mentioned this in April when he encouraged Russian hackers to "find her missing emails" or some such on national television. George was the front man for this, sure, but Mueller needs to know to what extent Trump himself knew what was going on and how involved he was with the decision to proceed with that collusion.

Which is really the whole nature of the beast at this point. It's relatively easy to prove there was collusion between the Trump Campaign and Russia. But holding Trump responsible for that collusion in a way that he can't pass the blame on to one of his underlings is a little bit trickier. The fact that he's going about this the way that he is suggests that what Mueller is really after is either information about Trump's involvement, or information he can use to lean on campaign officials who can give him what he wants. Either way, Manafort and Gates are completely fucked and their only move is to give Mueller what he wants. And even if they can't directly confirm that Trump was involved in the talks with Putin's people, they can definitely point him in the direction of someone who CAN.

 

[repoman]

Trump can only pardon for Federal crimes, right?

So this federal investigation could get information about about a key individual released that could be used by a state prosecutor?

If for example there was state income tax dodged by federal money laundering wouldn't that be a solid charge that a Trump pardon wouldn't prevent?

 

[Will Wiley]

[video=youtube;LCaNoThm9Lc]

I mean sure, the former campaign manager was indicted for "conspiracy against the United States," but that doesn't mean there's any connection to the campaign!

What is the connection to the campaign?

 

[Will Wiley]

Time will tell if Manafort and Gates have nothing to offer, as Trump's cronies insist. The specter of long prison terms can have sobering effects on people.

You KNOW they do. The whole point of arresting them is that they need corroborating evidence that Donald Trump knew the Russians were trying to feed him information about the Clinton emails. He publicly mentioned this in April when he encouraged Russian hackers to "find her missing emails" or some such on national television. George was the front man for this, sure, but Mueller needs to know to what extent Trump himself knew what was going on and how involved he was with the decision to proceed with that collusion.

What is the evidence that there was collusion?

Which is really the whole nature of the beast at this point. It's relatively easy to prove there was collusion between the Trump Campaign and Russia.

How would you demonstrate that collusion if it is so easy?

 

[Will Wiley]

[video=youtube;LCaNoThm9Lc]

I mean sure, the former campaign manager was indicted for "conspiracy against the United States," but that doesn't mean there's any connection to the campaign!

What is the connection to the campaign?

I get the feeling you guys continue to underestimate Trump. Ever since he was elected he has been underestimated. The Republicans did it. the Democrats did it, and I think people continue to do it.

Sure..the guy is a total knob, but even total knobs can be cunning and formidable and hard to beat

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I don't know about that, but I reviewed his deal and information related to his case. I noticed two things:
(1) he got off very, very lightly in their recommendation;
(2) he did not do an Alford plea but instead admitted to all information as accurate.

So I was thinking something with some similarity, in that he gave them up. If so, that would most likely be Trump Jr who seems to have been talking to the Russians, too. It would be weird if that were independent.

Of course he got off lightly. All he did was stupidly lie about insignificant contacts. If you read the Statement of Offense it's rather clear that he was just an eager newbie who wanted to impress.

By collaborating with the Russians? Did the Obama campaign have such a person too... "OH OH OH!!! I can get us high level contacts with the Iranians!"

Clinton emails only come up once and are never pursued.

The Clinton emails have come up more than once. This is what is a a trail of evidence.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Of course he got off lightly. All he did was stupidly lie about insignificant contacts. If you read the Statement of Offense it's rather clear that he was just an eager newbie who wanted to impress.

By collaborating with the Russians? Did the Obama campaign have such a person too... "OH OH OH!!! I can get us high level contacts with the Iranians!"

I agree with Trausti. Pap was "an eager newbie who wanted to impress." Whatever his motivations, he actually did contact senior members of the campaign who followed up communications. Somehow, the same dirt and the Russians both ended up making contact with Don Jr who met with Russians for the dirt.

Clinton emails only come up once and are never pursued.

The Clinton emails have come up more than once. This is what is a a trail of evidence.

...probably connected to Roger Stone.

 

[hurtinbuckaroo]

What is the connection to the campaign?

I get the feeling you guys continue to underestimate Trump. Ever since he was elected he has been underestimated. The Republicans did it. the Democrats did it, and I think people continue to do it.

Sure..the guy is a total knob, but even total knobs can be cunning and formidable and hard to beat

Trump is a dog who chased a car, and has no idea what to do with it after he's caught it. I've seen more cunning from a 3-year-old. A "cunning" individual wouldn't continually hire criminals/incompetents, make statements that make it easy for courts to neutralize his executive orders, or sabotage the legislative agenda he's allegedly in favor of.