Multi-Billionaire Oprah Whines About Sexism & Income Inequality At DNC

[Emily Lake]

In case it isn't clear, I understand fairly well what generational trauma is proposed to represent. But I also think it's pop-psychology and largely gets used as an excuse that ignores both current dynamics and personal accountability.

My mom's family is irish immigrants who went through famines and wars and religious persecution and involuntary indentured servitude at the point of a sword. My dad is descended from both african slaves transported to the americas against their will and osage indians persecuted and abused and damned near genocided by white people. I could claim generational trauma as the source of all the ills in my life... but my parents raised me to believe that I control how I react to the circumstances that arise in my life, and that I'm accountable for the consequences of my own actions. That's how they were raised, and how their parents were raised.

 

[Politesse]

So two generations of your family have quite unreasonably raised you to believe that all the suffering you experience in life is somehow your own fault, and that's your proof that intergenerational trauma isn't legit?

 

[TomC]

So two generations of your family have quite unreasonably raised you to believe that all the suffering you experience in life is somehow your own fault, and that's your proof that intergenerational trauma isn't legit?

She said nothing of the sort.
Is it because she's a girl disagreeing with you that you feel entitled to dismiss what she actually said?
Tom

 

[Shadowy Man]

You know some of the posters here actually spent years personally experiencing what happensed in grade school a very long time ago in spite of not being teachers, right?

FTFY.

You know schools have changed somewhat since the middle of the last century, right?

I recently drove past my old middle school and it looks the same.

 

[Politesse]

So two generations of your family have quite unreasonably raised you to believe that all the suffering you experience in life is somehow your own fault, and that's your proof that intergenerational trauma isn't legit?

She said nothing of the sort.
Is it because she's a girl disagreeing with you that you feel entitled to dismiss what she actually said?
Tom

Of course not. Emily's identity as a woman in not the reason she's dismissing the academic study of the mind as "pop psychology", and instead advancing personal anecdotes in support of a conservative, by-the-bootstraps worldview. I strongly believe that women, men, and non-binary people are all equally capable of reading and writing in the sciences, and indeed most of the foundational research on intergenerational trauma was conducted and analyzed by female scholars: Vivian Rackhoff, Cindy Vang, Rachel Yehuda, Erika Lunkeheimer, Amy Lehrner, Yael Danieli, and many others. Even if that weren't the case, I still do not accept any narrative (or forum post) that portrays women as unable to participate in the sciences as readily as any man.

 

[Emily Lake]

So two generations of your family have quite unreasonably raised you to believe that all the suffering you experience in life is somehow your own fault, and that's your proof that intergenerational trauma isn't legit?

They've never assigned fault, because there is no blame to be meted out.

They were raised, as were their parents, and their parents before them, to have resilience. They raised us to have that same resilience. Bad things happen in all of our lives. Most of them are not any specific person's fault. Life is not fair, and it's irrational to expect the universe to ensure balance and justice - mother nature, the cosmos, evolution, whatever you want to envision it as does not care about me or you or any other person.

They raised us to understand that even though we cannot control what happens to us, we are in control of how we respond to those externalities. We cannot control the weather or the waves, but we are the captains of our own ships.

 

[Emily Lake]

So two generations of your family have quite unreasonably raised you to believe that all the suffering you experience in life is somehow your own fault, and that's your proof that intergenerational trauma isn't legit?

She said nothing of the sort.
Is it because she's a girl disagreeing with you that you feel entitled to dismiss what she actually said?
Tom

Of course not. Emily's identity as a woman

I don't "identify" as a woman; I AM a sexually mature female of the human species. That's an incontrovertible fact of my body, it's not open to interpretation and it's not subject to any personal desires or wishes.

in not the reason she's dismissing the academic study of the mind as "pop psychology", and instead advancing personal anecdotes in support of a conservative, by-the-bootstraps worldview.

It's not a conservative view. You end up framing it as "conservative" only because you and your ilk have decided that permanent victimhood with someone or something else being perpetually blameworthy is somehow an answer to problems. It's only when your cohort tries to insist that someone else is expected to fix people's problems for them that you end up reframing this as somehow "conservative" and then only because you view "conservative" to by synonymous with "evil".

Accountability and resilience were simply part of growing up until recently.

I think the perpetual victim outlook held by proponents of generational trauma as an excuse for everything they don't like in their lives is the cause of far more suffering than any actual bad events.

 

[bilby]

I don't "identify" as a woman

Nobody suggested that you did.

Emily's identity as a woman

The above neither says, nor implies "Emily identifes as a woman".

You are over reacting to a non-existent challenge, which you appear to be anticipating despite its absence.

 

[Politesse]

So two generations of your family have quite unreasonably raised you to believe that all the suffering you experience in life is somehow your own fault, and that's your proof that intergenerational trauma isn't legit?

She said nothing of the sort.
Is it because she's a girl disagreeing with you that you feel entitled to dismiss what she actually said?
Tom

Of course not. Emily's identity as a woman

I don't "identify" as a woman; I AM a sexually mature female of the human species. That's an incontrovertible fact of my body, it's not open to interpretation and it's not subject to any personal desires or wishes.

in not the reason she's dismissing the academic study of the mind as "pop psychology", and instead advancing personal anecdotes in support of a conservative, by-the-bootstraps worldview.

It's not a conservative view. You end up framing it as "conservative" only because you and your ilk have decided that permanent victimhood with someone or something else being perpetually blameworthy is somehow an answer to problems. It's only when your cohort tries to insist that someone else is expected to fix people's problems for them that you end up reframing this as somehow "conservative" and then only because you view "conservative" to by synonymous with "evil".

Accountability and resilience were simply part of growing up until recently.

I think the perpetual victim outlook held by proponents of generational trauma as an excuse for everything they don't like in their lives is the cause of far more suffering than any actual bad events.

Hey TomC, she's really misrepresenting my views here. Could you come defend me, please? Csll her sexist! No wait, homophobic! Classist?

 

[laughing dog]

So two generations of your family have quite unreasonably raised you to believe that all the suffering you experience in life is somehow your own fault, and that's your proof that intergenerational trauma isn't legit?

She said nothing of the sort.
Is it because she's a girl disagreeing with you that you feel entitled to dismiss what she actually said?
Tom

Of course not. Emily's identity as a woman

I don't "identify" as a woman; I AM a sexually mature female of the human species. That's an incontrovertible fact of my body, it's not open to interpretation and it's not subject to any personal desires or wishes.

Everything is open to interpretation. Doesn't make the interpretation accurate.

 

[Emily Lake]

I don't "identify" as a woman

Nobody suggested that you did.

Emily's identity as a woman

The above neither says, nor implies "Emily identifes as a woman".

You are over reacting to a non-existent challenge, which you appear to be anticipating despite its absence.

Nah, I just refuse to play this game. My sex is not an identity. Had Poli written "Emily's sex... " I'd have no complaints. But he chose to present it as if my sex is a psychological aspect of my character. And I'm simply not going to accept that linguistic coercion.

 

[Emily Lake]

So two generations of your family have quite unreasonably raised you to believe that all the suffering you experience in life is somehow your own fault, and that's your proof that intergenerational trauma isn't legit?

She said nothing of the sort.
Is it because she's a girl disagreeing with you that you feel entitled to dismiss what she actually said?
Tom

Of course not. Emily's identity as a woman

I don't "identify" as a woman; I AM a sexually mature female of the human species. That's an incontrovertible fact of my body, it's not open to interpretation and it's not subject to any personal desires or wishes.

Everything is open to interpretation. Doesn't make the interpretation accurate.

Sure, sure. And all words are made up, and we can't ever actually know if anyone else exists or if they're just figments of our imaginate, and there's no way to tell whether the color that I see and know with the word "green" is the same color that you see or whether you are seeing the color that I know as "red" but are just calling it by the same name of "green", and maybe we're all actually in a simulation and don't know it...

Saying "everything is open to interpretation" is technically true, but also entirely false. If something is open to interpretation, that necessarily implies that some ambiguity exists that lends itself to more than one inference being plausible. That's not the case here.

 

[Politesse]

I don't "identify" as a woman

Nobody suggested that you did.

Emily's identity as a woman

The above neither says, nor implies "Emily identifes as a woman".

You are over reacting to a non-existent challenge, which you appear to be anticipating despite its absence.

Nah, I just refuse to play this game. My sex is not an identity. Had Poli written "Emily's sex... " I'd have no complaints. But he chose to present it as if my sex is a psychological aspect of my character. And I'm simply not going to accept that linguistic coercion.

Your sex isn't the reason you're wrong either.

 

[Politesse]

Hey TomC, she's really misrepresenting my views here. Could you come defend me, please? Csll her sexist! No wait, homophobic! Classist?

[REDACTED by Mod]
Tom

I'm not a "victim". All of my suffering is what I personally chose to suffer at someone else's hands.

 

[Emily Lake]

Hey TomC, she's really misrepresenting my views here. Could you come defend me, please? Csll her sexist! No wait, homophobic! Classist?

[REDACTED by Mod]
Tom

I'm not a "victim". All of my suffering is what I personally chose to suffer at someone else's hands.

Your sex kinks are irrelevant to this conversation. I'd be quite happy if you kept your bedroom behavior in the bedroom.

 

[bilby]

My sex is not an identity.

That's beyond absurd. Of course it is.

 

[bilby]

But he chose to present it as if my sex is a psychological aspect of my character.

No, he didn't. You chose to think that he did. Which was an overreaction.

 

[Politesse]

Your sex kinks are irrelevant to this conversation. I'd be quite happy if you kept your bedroom behavior in the bedroom.

Heterophobe.

 

[Derec]

I recently drove past my old middle school and it looks the same.

I could not drive past my high school, but recently I got curious and looked up my high school.
Looks exactly the same from the street, including the observatory on the roof, but a girl I knew back then is assistant principal.
But there is an addition crowding the old courtyard and a girl I knew back then is now assistant principal.
So some things do change.

 

[TomC]

My sex is not an identity.

That's beyond absurd. Of course it is.

Nope.
Sex is a characteristic. Gender is an identity.

I realize that it's not Woke to point out that part of reality. But reality is the stuff that doesn't go away regardless of what you believe or prefer.
Tom