Multi-Billionaire Oprah Whines About Sexism & Income Inequality At DNC

[Politesse]

Ahh, so you have insight into the secret policy positions that they secretly are planning for their Illuminati-esque world takeover?

They did helpfully publish them all in a set of easily accessible public documents, so... yeah.

I've read Curtis Yarvin's bullshit, too, and Vance's book. It's not exactly rocket science.

You know the far-right nutjobs say the same thing about you, don't you? That progressives have secret policies that they can't say in public, but trust them, they know all about those secret plans to turn the US into a communist shithole...

That's their folly, not mine. If anyone wants to know what the prerogatives of the Progressive Caucus or BLM or whoever are, those aren't difficult to find either.

 

[Emily Lake]

The community college system for which I work, of course.

Ah. My biases are showing. I usually think of college as a 4 year university.

You're not alone, and my tongue is a bit in cheek. Our principal economic value is as a way to cheat one's way into a four year by duplicitously allowing the poor opportunities to compete on merit, not the reputation of any degree we can award. But I do see our admissions policy as a feature not a bug.

How is your community college funded?

 

[Politesse]

The community college system for which I work, of course.

Ah. My biases are showing. I usually think of college as a 4 year university.

You're not alone, and my tongue is a bit in cheek. Our principal economic value is as a way to cheat one's way into a four year by duplicitously allowing the poor opportunities to compete on merit, not the reputation of any degree we can award. But I do see our admissions policy as a feature not a bug.

How is your community college funded?

A mixture of apportionment from the state of California, federal funding for certain special programs, student tuition and fees, occasional contributions from the State Lottery fund, corporate donations, and contributions from the community.

 

[Toni]

How is it that you think a student from an inner city, now attending a superior ( I’m just going with your logic here) suburban school, harm the education of all of those nice white superior students?

Why do you assume that inner city students are black, and correlated their melanin content specifically with being inferior?

I don’t. I did not mention the skin color of inner city school students. I did assume that the ‘superior’ students attending the ‘superior’ suburban schools were white. I confess I was going along with Loren’s suppositions.

My personal belief is that there is nothing inherently superior or inferior about schools based upon whether they are inner city urban or suburban or based upon the racial or income level of their parents. Those are assumptions that Loren seems to make and I was actually attempting to poke at those assumptions.

 

[Emily Lake]

The community college system for which I work, of course.

Ah. My biases are showing. I usually think of college as a 4 year university.

You're not alone, and my tongue is a bit in cheek. Our principal economic value is as a way to cheat one's way into a four year by duplicitously allowing the poor opportunities to compete on merit, not the reputation of any degree we can award. But I do see our admissions policy as a feature not a bug.

How is your community college funded?

A mixture of apportionment from the state of California, federal funding for certain special programs, student tuition and fees, occasional contributions from the State Lottery fund, corporate donations, and contributions from the community.

Wouldn't the tuition and fees part of that make it not free college for all?

 

[Emily Lake]

I don’t. I did not mention the skin color of inner city school students. I did assume that the ‘superior’ students attending the ‘superior’ suburban schools were white. I confess I was going along with Loren’s suppositions.

My personal belief is that there is nothing inherently superior or inferior about schools based upon whether they are inner city urban or suburban or based upon the racial or income level of their parents. Those are assumptions that Loren seems to make and I was actually attempting to poke at those assumptions.

I get where you're coming from, but none of Loren's supposition involves race at all.

Loren's inferior/superior argument is in the context of academic capability. It's everyone else who keeps assuming that inferior = black and superior = white. Loren hasn't done that.

 

[Politesse]

A mixture of apportionment from the state of California, federal funding for certain special programs, student tuition and fees, occasional contributions from the State Lottery fund, corporate donations, and contributions from the community.

Wouldn't the tuition and fees part of that make it not free college for all?

Well, in theory, it's free for anyone who needs it to be. Supposed to be, anyway. The students that do pay for classes make it possible for those that can't (the ratio of those that do is around 2/3) as long as everyone who needs help applies for it (definitely not a given). But I do agree that it should be wholly free, as indeed it used to be. There was a time when tuition was waived for all California students, and both our economy and society were stronger for it. But Reagan was an evil old coot.

 

[Toni]

I don’t. I did not mention the skin color of inner city school students. I did assume that the ‘superior’ students attending the ‘superior’ suburban schools were white. I confess I was going along with Loren’s suppositions.

My personal belief is that there is nothing inherently superior or inferior about schools based upon whether they are inner city urban or suburban or based upon the racial or income level of their parents. Those are assumptions that Loren seems to make and I was actually attempting to poke at those assumptions.

I get where you're coming from, but none of Loren's supposition involves race at all.

Loren's inferior/superior argument is in the context of academic capability. It's everyone else who keeps assuming that inferior = black and superior = white. Loren hasn't done that.

Actually, Loren has a long history of doing just that. He is more careful to mostly avoid skin color now but not e to rely.

Again I did not suggest that inner city students were not white. I absolutely disagree with the assumption that inner city schools and the students who attend them are ‘inferior.’ Nor do I believe that the parents’ socioeconomic status or educational level bestows determines any particular students academic potential. I also know from personal experience that students who come from families with low socioeconomic and educational attainment can have exceptional academic abilities and deserve the same opportunities as students whose parents obtained advanced degrees and earn a lot of money.

 

[laughing dog]

I don’t. I did not mention the skin color of inner city school students. I did assume that the ‘superior’ students attending the ‘superior’ suburban schools were white. I confess I was going along with Loren’s suppositions.

My personal belief is that there is nothing inherently superior or inferior about schools based upon whether they are inner city urban or suburban or based upon the racial or income level of their parents. Those are assumptions that Loren seems to make and I was actually attempting to poke at those assumptions.

I get where you're coming from, but none of Loren's supposition involves race at all.

Loren's inferior/superior argument is in the context of academic capability. It's everyone else who keeps assuming that inferior = black and superior = white. Loren hasn't done that.

You cannot possibly know that.

 

[Rhea]

Man who has never been a parent claims that generational trauma has no impact on childrearing across generations.

Can you explain what generational trauma is?

You’ve never heard of this? Okay, well here it is:

Breaking the Chains of Generational Trauma

We inherit more than just the shape of our bodies and the color of our skin; trauma itself can be passed down from one generation to the next. Here's how to break the cycle.

www.psychologytoday.com

We know now that newborns don’t enter into the world with a clean slate. Their emotional history begins even before they are conceived.

All the eggs a woman will carry form in her ovaries while she is a fetus in her mother's womb. In other words, when your mother was in your grandmother’s womb, she carried, at that time, the egg that eventually became you. This means that a part of you, your mother, and your grandmother all shared the same biological environment. In a sense, you were exposed to the emotions and experiences of your grandmother even before you were conceived.

It’s pretty well known that if a pregnant woman goes through a famine, her in-utero daughter and that daughter’s children suffer genetic detriments.

These can manifest in learning problems, risk decisions, impulse control, health issues that lead to additional costs.

Transgenerational trauma isn't something that can be easily pinpointed. It is often covert, undefined, and subtle, surfacing through family patterns and forms of hypervigilance, mistrust, anxiety, depression, issues with self-esteem, and other negative coping strategies. We also know that trauma can have a significant affect on the immune system and may contribute to the generational curse of autoimmune diseases and other chronic illnesses.

While generational trauma can affect us all, those at the highest risk are in families that have experienced significant forms of abuse, neglect, torture, oppression, and racial disparities. Studies have explored the effects of transgenerational trauma on Holocaust survivors, the Khmer Rouge killings in Cambodia, the Rwandan genocide, the displacement of American Indians, and slavery of African Americans, among others (1). While some results are mixed on how trauma is manifested, many studies uncovered higher rates of anxiety, depression and PTSD in trauma survivors and their children.

And more immediately, it’s also well known that people who are abused (such as by slavery, or ongoing racism, or an abusive parent) are more likely to suffer behavioral problems, and then pass those down again.

Not everyone, of course, but more likely than those not suffering abuse.


…
Surprised this is news to you.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If it doesn't matter why are there college admissions requirements in the first place??

Open and blatant class discrimination. In more civilized societies, a college education is considered the right of all citizens.

I agree that this should be the case but are there actually any such societies?

The community college system for which I work, of course.

Well, duh, you're in a system where you don't meaningfully have those not there to learn and where you can flunk out any that do show up. Of course you don't have the problem!

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Man who has never been a parent claims that generational trauma has no impact on childrearing across generations.

Can you explain what generational trauma is?

It's whatever effect persists across generations keeping people down.

The only apparent candidate is the standard attitudes of poverty--looking only to the present, not the future.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I don’t. I did not mention the skin color of inner city school students. I did assume that the ‘superior’ students attending the ‘superior’ suburban schools were white. I confess I was going along with Loren’s suppositions.

My personal belief is that there is nothing inherently superior or inferior about schools based upon whether they are inner city urban or suburban or based upon the racial or income level of their parents. Those are assumptions that Loren seems to make and I was actually attempting to poke at those assumptions.

I get where you're coming from, but none of Loren's supposition involves race at all.

Loren's inferior/superior argument is in the context of academic capability. It's everyone else who keeps assuming that inferior = black and superior = white. Loren hasn't done that.

Exactly. It correlates highly with race because it's so often the poor inner city students. However, it is not race.

As with most everything else involving supposed "racial discrimination" look to socioeconomic status. Any study finding a racial effect without controlling for socioeconomic status is almost certainly garbage.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Man who has never been a parent claims that generational trauma has no impact on childrearing across generations.

Can you explain what generational trauma is?

You’ve never heard of this? Okay, well here it is:

Breaking the Chains of Generational Trauma

We inherit more than just the shape of our bodies and the color of our skin; trauma itself can be passed down from one generation to the next. Here's how to break the cycle.

www.psychologytoday.com

We know now that newborns don’t enter into the world with a clean slate. Their emotional history begins even before they are conceived.

All the eggs a woman will carry form in her ovaries while she is a fetus in her mother's womb. In other words, when your mother was in your grandmother’s womb, she carried, at that time, the egg that eventually became you. This means that a part of you, your mother, and your grandmother all shared the same biological environment. In a sense, you were exposed to the emotions and experiences of your grandmother even before you were conceived.

It’s pretty well known that if a pregnant woman goes through a famine, her in-utero daughter and that daughter’s children suffer genetic detriments.

These can manifest in learning problems, risk decisions, impulse control, health issues that lead to additional costs.

Transgenerational trauma isn't something that can be easily pinpointed. It is often covert, undefined, and subtle, surfacing through family patterns and forms of hypervigilance, mistrust, anxiety, depression, issues with self-esteem, and other negative coping strategies. We also know that trauma can have a significant affect on the immune system and may contribute to the generational curse of autoimmune diseases and other chronic illnesses.

While generational trauma can affect us all, those at the highest risk are in families that have experienced significant forms of abuse, neglect, torture, oppression, and racial disparities. Studies have explored the effects of transgenerational trauma on Holocaust survivors, the Khmer Rouge killings in Cambodia, the Rwandan genocide, the displacement of American Indians, and slavery of African Americans, among others (1). While some results are mixed on how trauma is manifested, many studies uncovered higher rates of anxiety, depression and PTSD in trauma survivors and their children.

And more immediately, it’s also well known that people who are abused (such as by slavery, or ongoing racism, or an abusive parent) are more likely to suffer behavioral problems, and then pass those down again.

Not everyone, of course, but more likely than those not suffering abuse.


…
Surprised this is news to you.

And once again you shoot yourself in the foot.

This is not discrimination. It can't be solved with anti-discrimination measures.

 

[Rhea]

Man who has never been a parent claims that generational trauma has no impact on childrearing across generations.

Can you explain what generational trauma is?

You’ve never heard of this? Okay, well here it is:

Breaking the Chains of Generational Trauma

We inherit more than just the shape of our bodies and the color of our skin; trauma itself can be passed down from one generation to the next. Here's how to break the cycle.

www.psychologytoday.com

We know now that newborns don’t enter into the world with a clean slate. Their emotional history begins even before they are conceived.

All the eggs a woman will carry form in her ovaries while she is a fetus in her mother's womb. In other words, when your mother was in your grandmother’s womb, she carried, at that time, the egg that eventually became you. This means that a part of you, your mother, and your grandmother all shared the same biological environment. In a sense, you were exposed to the emotions and experiences of your grandmother even before you were conceived.

It’s pretty well known that if a pregnant woman goes through a famine, her in-utero daughter and that daughter’s children suffer genetic detriments.

These can manifest in learning problems, risk decisions, impulse control, health issues that lead to additional costs.

Transgenerational trauma isn't something that can be easily pinpointed. It is often covert, undefined, and subtle, surfacing through family patterns and forms of hypervigilance, mistrust, anxiety, depression, issues with self-esteem, and other negative coping strategies. We also know that trauma can have a significant affect on the immune system and may contribute to the generational curse of autoimmune diseases and other chronic illnesses.

While generational trauma can affect us all, those at the highest risk are in families that have experienced significant forms of abuse, neglect, torture, oppression, and racial disparities. Studies have explored the effects of transgenerational trauma on Holocaust survivors, the Khmer Rouge killings in Cambodia, the Rwandan genocide, the displacement of American Indians, and slavery of African Americans, among others (1). While some results are mixed on how trauma is manifested, many studies uncovered higher rates of anxiety, depression and PTSD in trauma survivors and their children.

And more immediately, it’s also well known that people who are abused (such as by slavery, or ongoing racism, or an abusive parent) are more likely to suffer behavioral problems, and then pass those down again.

Not everyone, of course, but more likely than those not suffering abuse.


…
Surprised this is news to you.

And once again you shoot yourself in the foot.

This is not discrimination. It can't be solved with anti-discrimination measures.

Man who doesn’t read deeply proclaims answer based on superficial reading.


Ah, Loren. Discrimination causes a whole host of generational traumas. If you can’t understand how lynchings (and every other form of racial discrimination) had a dramatic effect on people, you’ll never understand the basics of human interaction.

 

[Bomb#20]

... The fundamental problem is that teachers can't magically impart the same amount of knowledge to every student. Teach to the fast ones and the slow ones get left behind. Teach to the slow ones and the fast ones don't learn as much as they could. It's simply impossible to teach to all of them at the maximum rate they can learn. You minimize such loss by matching students as well as possible.

If teachers always taught to the material they are expected to teach inferior students wouldn't be a problem for the others--but such a teacher would leave them behind.

That is a fundamental misrepresentation of how primary school teaching works...

Just because you don't like the reality doesn't mean it doesn't happen. What magic would you invoke to avoid this?

You know we have actual teachers here, right?

You know some of the posters here actually spent years personally experiencing what happens in grade school in spite of not being teachers, right?

 

[bilby]

You know some of the posters here actually spent years personally experiencing what happensed in grade school a very long time ago in spite of not being teachers, right?

FTFY.

You know schools have changed somewhat since the middle of the last century, right?

 

[Politesse]

... The fundamental problem is that teachers can't magically impart the same amount of knowledge to every student. Teach to the fast ones and the slow ones get left behind. Teach to the slow ones and the fast ones don't learn as much as they could. It's simply impossible to teach to all of them at the maximum rate they can learn. You minimize such loss by matching students as well as possible.

If teachers always taught to the material they are expected to teach inferior students wouldn't be a problem for the others--but such a teacher would leave them behind.

That is a fundamental misrepresentation of how primary school teaching works...

Just because you don't like the reality doesn't mean it doesn't happen. What magic would you invoke to avoid this?

You know we have actual teachers here, right?

You know some of the posters here actually spent years personally experiencing what happens in grade school in spite of not being teachers, right?

Eight-year olds have a mostly but extremely accurate but very myopic understanding of what happens in a classroom and why.

 

[Derec]

We know now that newborns don’t enter into the world with a clean slate. Their emotional history begins even before they are conceived.

Is this going to be about epigenetics?

All the eggs a woman will carry form in her ovaries while she is a fetus in her mother's womb. In other words, when your mother was in your grandmother’s womb, she carried, at that time, the egg that eventually became you.

Depends on how you define "egg". It is primary oocytes that form in fetu. They are arrested in miosis 1 until puberty when they become secondary oocytes and start miosis 2. Miosis 2 is only completed at fertilization. This is contrast to men whose primary spermatocytes constantly undergo miosis and generate 4 mature spermatozoa per primary spermatocyte vs. only one ovum per primary oocyte for women.

It’s pretty well known that if a pregnant woman goes through a famine, her in-utero daughter and that daughter’s children suffer genetic detriments.
These can manifest in learning problems, risk decisions, impulse control, health issues that lead to additional costs.

Not only females though, although the mechanisms are different because of in utero effects mentioned above and also rearing of offspring (traumatized rat mothers lick their offspring less than non-traumatized rat mothers).

Luckily, the effects usually disappear after the F3 generation.

Transgenerational trauma isn't something that can be easily pinpointed. It is often covert, undefined, and subtle, surfacing through family patterns and forms of hypervigilance, mistrust, anxiety, depression, issues with self-esteem, and other negative coping strategies. We also know that trauma can have a significant affect on the immune system and may contribute to the generational curse of autoimmune diseases and other chronic illnesses.

Neither is it something race is a good proxy for. And this is what we are talking about here. Crudely givig a preference to certain people based on race and disadvantaging others based on race. There is no affirmative action based on family trauma. There is affirmative action based on race.
A white Appalachian or an immigrant from a country that has suffered civil wars in recent history is much more likely to carry intergenerational trauma markers than a young black man/woman whose grandparents were successful doctors or lawyers or politicians. After all, young people applying for college now are ~18 which means their grandparents' generation would have been young adults during 70s and 80s where there were plenty of successful black professionals.

Studies have explored the effects of transgenerational trauma on Holocaust survivors, the Khmer Rouge killings in Cambodia, the Rwandan genocide, the displacement of American Indians, and slavery of African Americans, among others (1).

Many of these are too far in the past to have a lingering effect on epigenetics.

 

[Emily Lake]

Man who has never been a parent claims that generational trauma has no impact on childrearing across generations.

Can you explain what generational trauma is?

You’ve never heard of this? Okay, well here it is:

Breaking the Chains of Generational Trauma

We inherit more than just the shape of our bodies and the color of our skin; trauma itself can be passed down from one generation to the next. Here's how to break the cycle.

www.psychologytoday.com

We know now that newborns don’t enter into the world with a clean slate. Their emotional history begins even before they are conceived.

All the eggs a woman will carry form in her ovaries while she is a fetus in her mother's womb. In other words, when your mother was in your grandmother’s womb, she carried, at that time, the egg that eventually became you. This means that a part of you, your mother, and your grandmother all shared the same biological environment. In a sense, you were exposed to the emotions and experiences of your grandmother even before you were conceived.

It’s pretty well known that if a pregnant woman goes through a famine, her in-utero daughter and that daughter’s children suffer genetic detriments.

These can manifest in learning problems, risk decisions, impulse control, health issues that lead to additional costs.

Transgenerational trauma isn't something that can be easily pinpointed. It is often covert, undefined, and subtle, surfacing through family patterns and forms of hypervigilance, mistrust, anxiety, depression, issues with self-esteem, and other negative coping strategies. We also know that trauma can have a significant affect on the immune system and may contribute to the generational curse of autoimmune diseases and other chronic illnesses.

While generational trauma can affect us all, those at the highest risk are in families that have experienced significant forms of abuse, neglect, torture, oppression, and racial disparities. Studies have explored the effects of transgenerational trauma on Holocaust survivors, the Khmer Rouge killings in Cambodia, the Rwandan genocide, the displacement of American Indians, and slavery of African Americans, among others (1). While some results are mixed on how trauma is manifested, many studies uncovered higher rates of anxiety, depression and PTSD in trauma survivors and their children.

And more immediately, it’s also well known that people who are abused (such as by slavery, or ongoing racism, or an abusive parent) are more likely to suffer behavioral problems, and then pass those down again.

Not everyone, of course, but more likely than those not suffering abuse.


…
Surprised this is news to you.

Just to make sure I'm following your approach...

A fetus inherits trauma from their mother, so much so that it traumatizes the eggs of female fetuses. This inherited victimization is so severe that it just keeps going through multiple generations, never allowing anyone to escape from the bad things that happened to their ancestors five or more generations ago.

Bad things having happened to my ancestors are the cause of everything wrong in my life, and a curse from which I can never find release, I'm just doomed to suffer because my great-great-great-grandparents were persecuted, then their children suffered through famine, then their children suffered through severe poverty and near starvation and only got by because they caught and ate squirrels, and their children (my sister and I) had to get by with food stamps and charity clothing in our early childhood.