Parenting Megathread

[Old Woman in Purple]

In our latest news we've hit the 'afraid of going down the drain' phase. After a gentle talk on rudimentary physics last night, I think we're good.

I really should have gone into social work.

You're doing just fine, Dad.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Daughter is doing her first biography and the process has been close to a nightmare. I have never put so much effort into something for so little gain. She gets into this stare like thing with no communication. I've learned that usually I need at this point, but with a project it is not as simple. She is supposed to be doing at school, and making absolutely no progress there either. And I have no way to get the data I need to see why she isn't doing what she is supposed to be doing.

It also doesn't help that the teacher hasn't been as forthcoming on the details of her lack of effort.

She is doing everything else just fine, but this project, nada. And once we think we've made progress, it evaporates. SO SO much stress. Part of me just wants to accept her to failing the project and take the bump. But with her, I don't think she'd learn, again I don't know or understand what the trouble is here. She has always had an issue with questions, and it is avalanche for this project. Need to put together a timeline, and she doesn't know what to put. She can't or won't bring up a single this person has done. Just get the stare. I've turned my brain inside out to try and develop different ways of approaching this, nothing works.

 

[Toni]

Daughter is doing her first biography and the process has been close to a nightmare. I have never put so much effort into something for so little gain. She gets into this stare like thing with no communication. I've learned that usually I need at this point, but with a project it is not as simple. She is supposed to be doing at school, and making absolutely no progress there either. And I have no way to get the data I need to see why she isn't doing what she is supposed to be doing.

It also doesn't help that the teacher hasn't been as forthcoming on the details of her lack of effort.

She is doing everything else just fine, but this project, nada. And once we think we've made progress, it evaporates. SO SO much stress. Part of me just wants to accept her to failing the project and take the bump. But with her, I don't think she'd learn, again I don't know or understand what the trouble is here. She has always had an issue with questions, and it is avalanche for this project. Need to put together a timeline, and she doesn't know what to put. She can't or won't bring up a single this person has done. Just get the stare. I've turned my brain inside out to try and develop different ways of approaching this, nothing works.

Can you break it down into steps for her?

I assume there is a proscribed format that she needs to follow, parts she needs to include.

I wonder if it would be helpful to her if you were to orally deliver a biography of someone she knows and loves: a parent or grandparent. A beloved Disney character. Etc. So that she can see that a biography is just the story of a person's life.

There are a few things about your daughter that remind me of one of my sons. When my oldest was little, if we read a fairy tale about Goldilocks and the Three Bears, he'd want to act it out, costumes (very rudimentary) and all, and tell it many different ways, using different action figures and stuffed toys for the various roles. He became entirely engrossed in the story. I don't mean that kid.

I mean his younger brother who, when I read Goldilocks and the Three Bears, he looked at me and said: But Mom, bears don't live in houses or sleep in beds. I have no idea how he knew that but he was right. THAT's the kid she reminds me of somewhat. As a young kid, he was extremely.....fact based. Later, he developed a love of fantasy.

For me, if I am doing a writing project, sometimes, I get really stuck if I start at the beginning. The first sentence can be terrible to formulate. So I start later. Which might be frustrating to someone who is very linearly organized but it might help if you show her that she can break it down into different parts and work at the part that is easiest to start with. Which, really is how most projects of any kind get finished: breaking it into achievable parts, and whitteling away with the hard parts.

 

[gmbteach]

Daughter is doing her first biography and the process has been close to a nightmare. I have never put so much effort into something for so little gain. She gets into this stare like thing with no communication. I've learned that usually I need at this point, but with a project it is not as simple. She is supposed to be doing at school, and making absolutely no progress there either. And I have no way to get the data I need to see why she isn't doing what she is supposed to be doing.

It also doesn't help that the teacher hasn't been as forthcoming on the details of her lack of effort.

She is doing everything else just fine, but this project, nada. And once we think we've made progress, it evaporates. SO SO much stress. Part of me just wants to accept her to failing the project and take the bump. But with her, I don't think she'd learn, again I don't know or understand what the trouble is here. She has always had an issue with questions, and it is avalanche for this project. Need to put together a timeline, and she doesn't know what to put. She can't or won't bring up a single this person has done. Just get the stare. I've turned my brain inside out to try and develop different ways of approaching this, nothing works.

Perhaps it’s someone she has no interest in. Maybe she can practice with someone she in interested in.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Some helpful stuff. Thanks. It is a bit late at this point.

My wife dropped the ball on helping get a list of names for her to do, so at the last second, almost literally, I was forced to acquire a list of names (Yes I put my wife under the bus. I've been required to save a number of poorly thought out plans. And if left to her own devices, Cordi sometimes takes a laissaiz faire approach). I got some science names together, mostly woman and I had her pick who she wanted to do. She selected an astronomer, something has great interest in. But the teacher didn't like they were still alive, so onto pick 2.

I found a short biography on her and a picture book, which I thought would help her wade into the complexities of being a gifted woman in the early 20th century. Oi, not so helpful other than to simply the science concepts.

 

[rousseau]

Daughter is doing her first biography and the process has been close to a nightmare. I have never put so much effort into something for so little gain. She gets into this stare like thing with no communication. I've learned that usually I need at this point, but with a project it is not as simple. She is supposed to be doing at school, and making absolutely no progress there either. And I have no way to get the data I need to see why she isn't doing what she is supposed to be doing.

It also doesn't help that the teacher hasn't been as forthcoming on the details of her lack of effort.

She is doing everything else just fine, but this project, nada. And once we think we've made progress, it evaporates. SO SO much stress. Part of me just wants to accept her to failing the project and take the bump. But with her, I don't think she'd learn, again I don't know or understand what the trouble is here. She has always had an issue with questions, and it is avalanche for this project. Need to put together a timeline, and she doesn't know what to put. She can't or won't bring up a single this person has done. Just get the stare. I've turned my brain inside out to try and develop different ways of approaching this, nothing works.

Is there any Autism or Aspergers in your family or extended family? How are her communication and executive skills, in general?

I've been reading up on Aspergers for the past few months myself, and the cognitive profile is interesting. Many can have solid logic and fact-based skills, but when it comes to mentally manipulating disparate, unrelated pieces of information they can struggle. Executive functioning, communication skills, and social maturity can also be a problem.

I don't want to read too far into what you've said, but it could be worth doing some research and seeing if some of the signs are there, and if so, seek a diagnosis. If that actually is the case then she'll be able to learn coping strategies as she grows older.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

She is ADHD, with a few autistic issues, sound, bees and smart speakers (frantic panic), assembly organization (things in lines and she knows when things were adjusted), way immature for her age (but she has improved though a lot due to the meds). She doesn't have many friends because she inhabits a completely different world.

What is odd is they are doing the laptop assessments right now too. She did fine in her reading one. Not as awesome as in math, but showed improvement and a respectable percentile. So this isn't across the board performance decline.

 

[rousseau]

She is ADHD, with a few autistic issues, sound, bees and smart speakers (frantic panic), assembly organization (things in lines and she knows when things were adjusted), way immature for her age (but she has improved though a lot due to the meds). She doesn't have many friends because she inhabits a completely different world.

What is odd is they are doing the laptop assessments right now too. She did fine in her reading one. Not as awesome as in math, but showed improvement and a respectable percentile. So this isn't across the board performance decline.

I have a few people in my life with Aspergers, and the impression I get is that they excel in some areas, and are weak in others. It's more of a different set of abilities, than a disability, so to speak, unless it's so severe that it actually impacts day to day functioning.

The social thing doesn't come as naturally for them and has to be learned. And writing a biography of someone sounds like something they could struggle with.

 

[crazyfingers]

My daughter is pregnant. She's 22. So I guess she and her fiance will be living in my parents house/my other house for a little longer. I know some here know the saga of my daughter. For all her emotional troubles, she's a very good person.

My older son, 21, got his driver's license today. So we need to get another car to put in his name. He'll share it with his younger brother when he gets his license.

So we had dinner with all of us today. Take out pizza outside at the other house. The two houses are about 35 minutes drive apart.

 

[gmbteach]

Daughter is doing her first biography and the process has been close to a nightmare. I have never put so much effort into something for so little gain. She gets into this stare like thing with no communication. I've learned that usually I need at this point, but with a project it is not as simple. She is supposed to be doing at school, and making absolutely no progress there either. And I have no way to get the data I need to see why she isn't doing what she is supposed to be doing.

It also doesn't help that the teacher hasn't been as forthcoming on the details of her lack of effort.

She is doing everything else just fine, but this project, nada. And once we think we've made progress, it evaporates. SO SO much stress. Part of me just wants to accept her to failing the project and take the bump. But with her, I don't think she'd learn, again I don't know or understand what the trouble is here. She has always had an issue with questions, and it is avalanche for this project. Need to put together a timeline, and she doesn't know what to put. She can't or won't bring up a single this person has done. Just get the stare. I've turned my brain inside out to try and develop different ways of approaching this, nothing works.

Is there any Autism or Aspergers in your family or extended family? How are her communication and executive skills, in general?

I've been reading up on Aspergers for the past few months myself, and the cognitive profile is interesting. Many can have solid logic and fact-based skills, but when it comes to mentally manipulating disparate, unrelated pieces of information they can struggle. Executive functioning, communication skills, and social maturity can also be a problem.

I don't want to read too far into what you've said, but it could be worth doing some research and seeing if some of the signs are there, and if so, seek a diagnosis. If that actually is the case then she'll be able to learn coping strategies as she grows older.

The kiwis have it right…

Takiwātanga means in his, her or my own time and space. It comes from a Māori phrase for autism - "tōku/tōna anō takiwā".

 

[crazyfingers]

Daughter is doing her first biography and the process has been close to a nightmare. I have never put so much effort into something for so little gain. She gets into this stare like thing with no communication. I've learned that usually I need at this point, but with a project it is not as simple. She is supposed to be doing at school, and making absolutely no progress there either. And I have no way to get the data I need to see why she isn't doing what she is supposed to be doing.

It also doesn't help that the teacher hasn't been as forthcoming on the details of her lack of effort.

She is doing everything else just fine, but this project, nada. And once we think we've made progress, it evaporates. SO SO much stress. Part of me just wants to accept her to failing the project and take the bump. But with her, I don't think she'd learn, again I don't know or understand what the trouble is here. She has always had an issue with questions, and it is avalanche for this project. Need to put together a timeline, and she doesn't know what to put. She can't or won't bring up a single this person has done. Just get the stare. I've turned my brain inside out to try and develop different ways of approaching this, nothing works.

Is there any Autism or Aspergers in your family or extended family? How are her communication and executive skills, in general?

I've been reading up on Aspergers for the past few months myself, and the cognitive profile is interesting. Many can have solid logic and fact-based skills, but when it comes to mentally manipulating disparate, unrelated pieces of information they can struggle. Executive functioning, communication skills, and social maturity can also be a problem.

I don't want to read too far into what you've said, but it could be worth doing some research and seeing if some of the signs are there, and if so, seek a diagnosis. If that actually is the case then she'll be able to learn coping strategies as she grows older.

That descibes my middle one almost exactly. He is on the spectrum.

My youngest has ADHD so not as exact for him but a lot is true for him too.

All my kids we adopted out of state foster care.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

She is ADHD, with a few autistic issues, sound, bees and smart speakers (frantic panic), assembly organization (things in lines and she knows when things were adjusted), way immature for her age (but she has improved though a lot due to the meds). She doesn't have many friends because she inhabits a completely different world.

What is odd is they are doing the laptop assessments right now too. She did fine in her reading one. Not as awesome as in math, but showed improvement and a respectable percentile. So this isn't across the board performance decline.

I have a few people in my life with Aspergers, and the impression I get is that they excel in some areas, and are weak in others. It's more of a different set of abilities, than a disability, so to speak, unless it's so severe that it actually impacts day to day functioning.

The social thing doesn't come as naturally for them and has to be learned. And writing a biography of someone sounds like something they could struggle with.

Yeah, we are quite at peace with that. Well, not at peace, but accept that reality. The current problem is simply the inability to manage this project with her.

I liken it to the 5k. If I left her to her own devices, she very likely would have walked most of the 5k. But given the right motivation and support, she ran almost the entire distance. Not super-fast, but an impressive feat still (I think the 5k length is just way too long for kids this age). She often needs support with higher level stuff. She is capable of self-learning, does it with the online modules at home. She is on the "7th" grade level for math and is pushing through it without needing my help. But this project has been something else... and the trouble is, this project is just going to get bigger and harder in 5th, 6th grade. So I'm hoping whatever is stopping her right now goes away, because I can't find a way to break through this wall.

 

[rousseau]

She is ADHD, with a few autistic issues, sound, bees and smart speakers (frantic panic), assembly organization (things in lines and she knows when things were adjusted), way immature for her age (but she has improved though a lot due to the meds). She doesn't have many friends because she inhabits a completely different world.

What is odd is they are doing the laptop assessments right now too. She did fine in her reading one. Not as awesome as in math, but showed improvement and a respectable percentile. So this isn't across the board performance decline.

I have a few people in my life with Aspergers, and the impression I get is that they excel in some areas, and are weak in others. It's more of a different set of abilities, than a disability, so to speak, unless it's so severe that it actually impacts day to day functioning.

The social thing doesn't come as naturally for them and has to be learned. And writing a biography of someone sounds like something they could struggle with.

Yeah, we are quite at peace with that. Well, not at peace, but accept that reality. The current problem is simply the inability to manage this project with her.

I liken it to the 5k. If I left her to her own devices, she very likely would have walked most of the 5k. But given the right motivation and support, she ran almost the entire distance. Not super-fast, but an impressive feat still (I think the 5k length is just way too long for kids this age). She often needs support with higher level stuff. She is capable of self-learning, does it with the online modules at home. She is on the "7th" grade level for math and is pushing through it without needing my help. But this project has been something else... and the trouble is, this project is just going to get bigger and harder in 5th, 6th grade. So I'm hoping whatever is stopping her right now goes away, because I can't find a way to break through this wall.

One site I read recommended being an 'executive assistant', which seems to be what you're doing already. It might be one of those things where you have a hard time stepping away completely, but you can gently prod more independent problem solving over time.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

For this project, it was 3 weeks of time. I was letting it sort itself out... until there was no sorting to speak of and it was getting too late. The goal is to be as passive as possible, let them do their work... she prefers to be left alone to do it. But this one particular project needed more involvement, but that involvement wasn't helping. She wasn't doing it on her own and her teacher can't devote 100% of his time to seeing her get the job done.

 

[rousseau]

Yea, that's generally how I approach both of my boys, be as passive as possible. I think with Aspergers some of the skills just don't exist, and maybe at her age it's hard for her to just will them into existence.

 

[Toni]

Most kids really drag their feet if they don’t like an assignment. There are a lot of reasons, starting with stubbornness ( speaking from experience), perfectionism, disinterest in the assignment and simply having a difficult time beginning a project or a type of project—which, again, speaking from experience can come from perfectionism conflicting with simply not wanting to do it or to do it in the format required.

I know how much you want your daughter to succeed. The truth is that sometimes, they have to be allowed to do poorly when they don’t put in the effort. Yes, you can and should do what you can to help her, but at this point in her schooling, it’s all pretty low stakes. She’ll still be just as smart if she doesn’t do well on this assignment, and you’ll still love her whether she does well or poorly.

I remember being afraid to bring home my report card when a grade dropped from an A to an A~. You don’t want that for your kid.

 

[rousseau]

After our boys had gone down last night, my wife and I were sitting together and I turned to her and said, 'do you ever think about the fact that we never have to go through the infant stage again'.

Since our baby turned one last month things have finally started to stabilize. He'll occasionally sleep through the night, or at worst wake up once. Our eldest goes through the night, every night. During the day they're both pretty stable. It turns out age three is a lot, but it's manageable, and I might even call it an interesting period.

We're still fairly busy, but this really is the first period of my life - literally my entire life - where I have absolutely nothing to worry about or plan for. We have our kids, careers, house, finances in order, and in my spare time I can sit around tinkering with vinyl, or otherwise be absolutely unproductive.

I'm also coming up on summer where my employer is notorious for slowing down our workload. So I expect to have a nice few months ahead, and after this past winter do I ever need the break.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Indeed, the grade is low stakes, the habits are a bit higher stakes. Generally grades aren't a thing. I expect an A in math and don't want to see a drop in grades. Grades, otherwise mean very little. She is at the fundamentals portion of school, so her learning and understanding fundamentals means a lot more than the grades ever will. But this really isn't about that. It is more about the absolute lack of communication and that stare. I hate that stare. I can't break through it, so I can't address whatever is the issue.

I'm an engineer, which means I'm trained and enjoy defining and solving problems. So there is frustration when I can't do much at all to address whatever is going on.

 

[rousseau]

Indeed, the grade is low stakes, the habits are a bit higher stakes. Generally grades aren't a thing. I expect an A in math and don't want to see a drop in grades. Grades, otherwise mean very little. She is at the fundamentals portion of school, so her learning and understanding fundamentals means a lot more than the grades ever will. But this really isn't about that. It is more about the absolute lack of communication and that stare. I hate that stare. I can't break through it, so I can't address whatever is the issue.

I'm an engineer, which means I'm trained and enjoy defining and solving problems. So there is frustration when I can't do much at all to address whatever is going on.

IMO, at some point parents need to accept that genetics are a lot more powerful than their personal influence. We can guide our kids, but you just can't fundamentally change a person.

My plan isn't so much to make my boys successful, it's to make them a successful version of themselves. Maybe some of your frustration would dissipate if you let yourself off the hook for who she becomes.

 

[Toni]

Indeed, the grade is low stakes, the habits are a bit higher stakes. Generally grades aren't a thing. I expect an A in math and don't want to see a drop in grades. Grades, otherwise mean very little. She is at the fundamentals portion of school, so her learning and understanding fundamentals means a lot more than the grades ever will. But this really isn't about that. It is more about the absolute lack of communication and that stare. I hate that stare. I can't break through it, so I can't address whatever is the issue.

I'm an engineer, which means I'm trained and enjoy defining and solving problems. So there is frustration when I can't do much at all to address whatever is going on.

Yeah, my sister thought our dad would make a good engineer. He did have that kind of mind set. I thought he'd have made a good architect. He actually largely designed and built a large addition to his second wife's existing home, and I think he was immensely proud of that. (Did not save that marriage....) My parents grew up in the Great Depression, in difficult circumstances, and having lost one parent. They were not encouraged in school and they keenly felt how much it limited them. My father especially was determined we kids would have a better chance. And fortunately for me, my older sister was good at school, so it was expected of me as well. By the time I was 9, and had learned of something called 'college' I was absolutely determined that was where I was going. Not for 'career opportunities' but because I saw it as a place to start learning.....everything. And to get out of where I was, where I was thought a little strange because I read all the time.

Here, I think the fundamentals--writing assignments, and assignments that one doesn't like but must complete--will be repeated in different fashions many times.

My kids tended to open up a lot more when we were doing something absolutely unrelated to whatever it was that was the issue: driving in a car, making dinner, talking about something else. When they are a bit older than your daughter, that's really helpful: riding in a car. Even better if it's at night and you can't see each other's faces so well. Sometimes, with other kids in the backseat, my kid with them, someone--my kid or a different one, would very casually bring up an issue that was troubling my kid or them or all of them--maybe just adjacent. It was low stakes then: no face to face stare, no trying to hide facial expressions. Just relaxed, low stakes, whatever. I think the motion of the car also is helpful. Of course, I'm talking low/no traffic, just a relaxed ride to/from some practice or game or to the mall, etc. I was really relaxed as well. There was a time in middle school when my daughter was observing some upsetting things among other girls, and sometimes hearing some upsetting things. The car was a good place to break the ice then.