Police Misconduct Catch All Thread

[Shadowy Man]

The USA seriously needs to consolidate all their police forces into maybe sixty large departments. One for each state, plus a handful of specialist federal departments, including a couple of powerful new departments that are tasked with investigating and detecting crimes carried out by any of the others (you need two or three of these, so that they can also keep an eye on each other. Base one each in California, New York and Texas, and give them jurisdiction over every police department outside their own home state).

Wikipedia tells me that there are currently 17,985 police departments in the USA, which is at least 17,900 more than you need.

You realize that California has about 70 times the population as Wyoming, right? Should the resources for police be basically evenly divided between those two states?

 

[Derec]

Maybe, but they aren't really a justification for yet more of your thinly veiled appeals for people to share or endorse your terror of black people.

It's not "terror of black people". It's the statistical fact, as I have shown, with data, that blacks commit most crimes at much higher rates than whites. The rate is ~6x higher with homicides. US cities also have very variable percentages of black residents. That should be taken into consideration when comparing crime rates of different cities.

Just because some facts are politically incorrect and "unwoke" does not make then any less factual. And it is certainly no justification for your ad hominem attacks.

 

[Derec]

This shoplifter, btw, has a 6 year old while being only 21 years old. So she has a long history of making brilliant life choices quite possibly made at least one poor choice in her life, unlike literally everyone else who has ever lived.

FTFY.

Several poor choices:

• having unprotected sex/a child at 15.
• continuing to have unprotected sex leading to two more pregnancies
• doing whatever caused her grandmother to seek a restraining order against her
• shoplifting some alcohol
• refusing to comply with police and surrender to them
• trying to run a police officer over

Certainly not just one.

 

[Derec]

The officer was not in any danger unless he was immobile.

Getting pushed by an accelerating car is some danger.

Rightly being horrified at the over-reaction of the police is not the same as defending this woman's action. No one is condoning theft or disobeying a police officer's orders.

Hmm, many people have defended retail theft on here before.

No one here is excusing what this woman did. They are condemning the needless killing of an alleged criminal.

Not yet on this forum, but elsewhere on the internet they have been defending her.

Even if the car was stolen, the police could have followed it and set up road blocks instead of opening fire, so your apologia is an epic fail.

And what then? If the policy is to let her go whenever she chooses to drive away, how can you ever catch her?
Note that people have condemned police for executing PIT maneuvers against fleeing criminals.

 

[Derec]

Of course, there is an implicit assumption that this victim made a consensual decision when she was fifteen to have sex.

Or, depending on the state and/or the circumstances: she was raped and carried the child to term.

There is no indication any of her pregnancies were the result of anything but consensual unprotected sex.
Why do you automatically think she might be some kind of "victim" and not just a thot?

Many male heroes of #BLM have kids and have become fathers at 15 or 16. I have seen neither of you suggest even once that they might be some sort of victims. Double standard?

More about her:
Who was Ta'Kiya Young? What we know about the 21-year-old killed in Blendon Twp. shooting

According to Franklin County Municipal Court records, Nadine Young called police on Sunday to her home on Divot Place after Ta'Kiya had shown up there. The court records said the elder Young told Columbus police officers that she had a protection order against her granddaughter, who was not supposed to be at the home.
Young had left before Columbus police arrived on the scene but a misdemeanor charge of violating a protection order was filed after Nadine Young filled out a witness statement, according to court records. It was the second such charge Young had faced as an adult.
Young also had other minor criminal infractions on her record, according to court documents.

The article also has a photo of her kids. The older kid (the one in the "black pride" t-shirt) seems to have a smooth philtrum. That could be an indication of fetal alcohol syndrome. She was caught steeling booze from Kroger. Hmmm.

 

[Toni]

Maybe, but they aren't really a justification for yet more of your thinly veiled appeals for people to share or endorse your terror of black people.

It's not "terror of black people". It's the statistical fact, as I have shown, with data, that blacks commit most crimes at much higher rates than whites. The rate is ~6x higher with homicides. US cities also have very variable percentages of black residents. That should be taken into consideration when comparing crime rates of different cities.

Just because some facts are politically incorrect and "unwoke" does not make then any less factual. And it is certainly no justification for your ad hominem attacks.

It's a statistical fact that black people are arrested for and convicted of crimes more often than white people. Which is NOT the same thing as actually committing more crimes than white people. White people are often given passes for crimes that black people are arrested for, tried and convicted for and sentenced much more harshly than a white person in the same circumstances. This harshness of punishment starts in pre-K. This has been discussed before, and stats have been posted before. You simply refuse to acknowledge that people are treated differently because of the color of their skin.

 

[Toni]

Of course, there is an implicit assumption that this victim made a consensual decision when she was fifteen to have sex.

Or, depending on the state and/or the circumstances: she was raped and carried the child to term.

There is no indication any of her pregnancies were the result of anything but consensual unprotected sex.
Why do you automatically think she might be some kind of "victim" and not just a thot?
More about her:
Who was Ta'Kiya Young? What we know about the 21-year-old killed in Blendon Twp. shooting

According to Franklin County Municipal Court records, Nadine Young called police on Sunday to her home on Divot Place after Ta'Kiya had shown up there. The court records said the elder Young told Columbus police officers that she had a protection order against her granddaughter, who was not supposed to be at the home.
Young had left before Columbus police arrived on the scene but a misdemeanor charge of violating a protection order was filed after Nadine Young filled out a witness statement, according to court records. It was the second such charge Young had faced as an adult.
Young also had other minor criminal infractions on her record, according to court documents.

The article also has a photo of her kids. The older kid (the one in the "black pride" t-shirt) seems to have a smooth philtrum. That could be an indication of fetal alcohol syndrome. She was caught steeling booze from Kroger. Hmmm.

If she was 15 when she gave birth to her oldest child, she would have legally been unable to give consent to sex.

She was accused of stealing booze from Kroger. There is no evidence that this actually happened. In any case, there is nothing that she did that was even close to a capital offense. She was not arrested nor tried nor convicted of theft, or as far as I can tell, of any other crime. As far as I can tell, the only accusations against her, aside from your ugly and hypocritical accusations, are of petty crimes.

 

[bilby]

The USA seriously needs to consolidate all their police forces into maybe sixty large departments. One for each state, plus a handful of specialist federal departments, including a couple of powerful new departments that are tasked with investigating and detecting crimes carried out by any of the others (you need two or three of these, so that they can also keep an eye on each other. Base one each in California, New York and Texas, and give them jurisdiction over every police department outside their own home state).

Wikipedia tells me that there are currently 17,985 police departments in the USA, which is at least 17,900 more than you need.

You realize that California has about 70 times the population as Wyoming, right? Should the resources for police be basically evenly divided between those two states?

No.

What would make you imagine that I would think that?

It's perfectly possible for two police departments to be of very different sizes.

The reason to have one per state is that police need to know the law, and the law often varies significantly between states.

 

[laughing dog]

Of course, there is an implicit assumption that this victim made a consensual decision when she was fifteen to have sex.

Or, depending on the state and/or the circumstances: she was raped and carried the child to term.

There is no indication any of her pregnancies were the result of anything but consensual unprotected sex.
Why do you automatically think she might be some kind of "victim" and not just a thot?

Unlike you, I made no assumption about consent. I pointed out it is possible she did not consent. Unlike you, I am making no attempt to smear the victim or the killer. Her past is completely irrelevant to the circumstances of her killing. Yet, as usual, you feel the need to speculate on her character and bring up her past. Your ideology is ugly and your selective use of the facts to rationalize your beliefs does not change that fact.

 

[bilby]

It's the statistical fact, as I have shown, with data, that blacks commit most crimes at much higher rates than whites. The rate is ~6x higher with homicides.

Sure; But is the difference due to blackness, or due to some other factor (eg poverty), that happens to correlate with blackness?

US cities also have very variable percentages of black residents. That should be taken into consideration when comparing crime rates of different cities.

Only if it's actually relevant.

Your demonstration of a correlation is factual.

Your assumption that this implies causation is your own opinion, and your constant harping on the subject strongly suggests that your motive in doing so is fear of black people.

The vast majority of people don't commit homicides. If it were the case that redheads committed six times as many homicides as blondes, that wouldn't be grounds to believe that a given redhead was homicidal, nor would it justify a difference in attitude from police when dealing with redheads.

Your beliefs are irrational and ugly; Your abuse of facts to rationalise them doesn't change that fact.

 

[laughing dog]

The officer was not in any danger unless he was immobile.

Getting pushed by an accelerating car is some danger.

The car was barely moving. The officer was in no real danger unless he was either immobile or too fucking stupid or stubborn to move.

Rightly being horrified at the over-reaction of the police is not the same as defending this woman's action. No one is condoning theft or disobeying a police officer's orders.

Hmm, many people have defended retail theft on here before.

Many people have defended the police killing unarmed black people before on this forum. Hmmm.

No one here is excusing what this woman did. They are condemning the needless killing of an alleged criminal.

Not yet on this forum, but elsewhere on the internet they have been defending her.

Elsewhere on the internet that are virulent racists applauding the killing of another black person.

Even if the car was stolen, the police could have followed it and set up road blocks instead of opening fire, so your apologia is an epic fail.

And what then? If the policy is to let her go whenever she chooses to drive away, how can you ever catch her?

Who said anything about letting her go wherever she wanted to go? The police were standing right there. If they could shot and kill her, they certainly could have shot out her tires.

Note that people have condemned police for executing PIT maneuvers against fleeing criminals.

Note that people have defended and continue to defend police for killing unarmed black people like George Floyd and Tamir Rice. Hell, in this thread, someone basically blamed Brionna Taylor for her death because she "lived with scum" even though the police were at the wrong address and shot through a wall to kill her!!!!!

 

[bilby]

Several poor choices:
<snip>
Certainly not just one.

Please feel free to name any person who reached the age of fifteen without having made several poor choices.

Life is a lottery. We all do plenty of stupid shit; Most of us get away with minimal consequences, but that's not a reflection of any virtue on our part, it's just good luck.

Taking people to task for being less fortunate than you is just ugly. You need to stop doing it, or people will develop a very low opinion of you as a person.

 

[Toni]

Of course, there is an implicit assumption that this victim made a consensual decision when she was fifteen to have sex.

Or, depending on the state and/or the circumstances: she was raped and carried the child to term.

There is no indication any of her pregnancies were the result of anything but consensual unprotected sex.
Why do you automatically think she might be some kind of "victim" and not just a thot?

Unlike you, I made no assumption about consent. I pointed out it is possible she did not consent.

In any case, unless the father of her oldest child was under the age of 18, then the eldest child was conceived through rape as Ms. Young was under the age of consent under Ohio law.

 

[scombrid]

Ohio apparently had a police shooting recently, 21 year old pregnant woman who was accused by the grocery store of shoplifting alcohol.

I have seen people defend her and say that police should have just let her go when she refused to get out of her car. We have normalized retail theft to that extent in our society. And that's why thieves are getting so emboldened - most of the time, they suffer zero consequences. I would be very surprised if this was the first time St. Ta'Kiya stole something from a store.

“Get out of the f**king car,” the officer standing in front of the car says, with his gun drawn and his left hand braced on the hood of the car, the video shows.

And she should have gotten out. Instead of committing assault with a deadly weapon.

Young can then be seen turning the wheel of the car as the officer next to her window continues to urge her to exit the vehicle.
“Get out of the f**king car,” the officer in front of the car repeats as the vehicle begins to move slowly forward, the video shows.

She had been given several opportunities to comply.

Like no one in that situation made a proper decision. Rolling the car into a officer, probably a bad idea.

Probably? Had she injured the officer and gotten away, she'd be facing felony charges. But, I guess certain people would still be defending her. "How she gonna get her money" and all that.

Drawing your gun at a person who hasn't presented any semblance of a threat, probably a bad idea. In fact a very awful one. How long did it take an officer to lose control of that situation, swearing at the suspect?

The situation deteriorated because of Ta'Kiya's actions. She could have complied and surrendered. What are the guidelines for police pulling their firearms at a suspect in Ohio? Do you know?

An officer pulls a gun over a person who appears to be evading a petty theft. They have her license, this can be managed otherwise. But no, pulls a fucking gun because of Cartman-ism.

They have their license plate. But what if she stole the car as well? And if they are not allowed to use force because she is pregnant, then could she not refused to surrender if they showed up at her house too? We need to stop making excuses for these criminals.

So add car theft and resisting with or without violence to the shoplifting charge. The killing is not remotely justified. She was not a mortal threat to the cops or the public by any stretch. Cop standing in front of the car with weapon drawn and shouting obscenities is not an appropriate initial response. It is bordering on malicious escalation.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Of course, there is an implicit assumption that this victim made a consensual decision when she was fifteen to have sex.

Or, depending on the state and/or the circumstances: she was raped and carried the child to term.

There is no indication any of her pregnancies were the result of anything but consensual unprotected sex.
Why do you automatically think she might be some kind of "victim" and not just a thot?

Unlike you, I made no assumption about consent. I pointed out it is possible she did not consent.

In any case, unless the father of her oldest child was under the age of 18, then the eldest child was conceived through rape as Ms. Young was under the age of consent under Ohio law.

Let me guess, more blame the victim bullshit. She was engaging in sex and therefore blah blah fucking blah.

Her killing was unbelievably unnecessary. She made a couple bad choices, of course the officer in front of the car was treating this like an armed robbery.

 

[Shadowy Man]

The USA seriously needs to consolidate all their police forces into maybe sixty large departments. One for each state, plus a handful of specialist federal departments, including a couple of powerful new departments that are tasked with investigating and detecting crimes carried out by any of the others (you need two or three of these, so that they can also keep an eye on each other. Base one each in California, New York and Texas, and give them jurisdiction over every police department outside their own home state).

Wikipedia tells me that there are currently 17,985 police departments in the USA, which is at least 17,900 more than you need.

You realize that California has about 70 times the population as Wyoming, right? Should the resources for police be basically evenly divided between those two states?

No.

What would make you imagine that I would think that?

It's perfectly possible for two police departments to be of very different sizes.

The reason to have one per state is that police need to know the law, and the law often varies significantly between states.

Since each state does already have its own police forces your proposal is to have statewide forces only and not break up into smaller, local forces? I guess it isn’t clear to me what exactly you are suggesting and why it would be better than what always exists.

Is it better to have one force that serves 35 million people? Might that not bend under its own weight of bureaucracy? It feels like saying that each state should have a single university and all the students should go there rather than break up into individual campuses and college systems. Would try at make sense too?

 

[Derec]

It's a statistical fact that black people are arrested for and convicted of crimes more often than white people. Which is NOT the same thing as actually committing more crimes than white people.

So your contention is that blacks do not commit e.g. homicides or robberies at higher rates than whites, but that they just get arrested and convicted more? What do you base this contention on, other than that it fits your far leftist race ideology?
But let's look a little closer. With homicides, victims are also most likely the same race as the perpetrator. Which means that blacks are also victims of homicide far more than whites.
Black Americans Are Killed At 12 Times The Rate Of People In Other Developed Countries
Or look at FBI data.

Keep in mind that there are a lot more white people in the US than black people, lest you try to be slick and compare raw numbers.

This does not fit your hypothesis that there is no difference in crime rates, just in arrest/conviction rates.

White people are often given passes for crimes that black people are arrested for, tried and convicted for and sentenced much more harshly than a white person in the same circumstances.

Bullshit. If anything, blacks are more likely to get a pass these days. Take the infamous case of Jena 6. Or the 2020 insurrectionists, most of whom were not prosecuted and the few that were got lenient sentences.
Like one year for burning down a police vehicle and handing out Molotov cocktails to fellow rioters. Or ten years for killing a man during an arson. In that case the prosecutor working for Biden/Garland DOJ explicitly called for leniency because he supported the arsonist's politics. Compare that to 15 or 18 years January 6th rioters are getting.

This harshness of punishment starts in pre-K. This has been discussed before, and stats have been posted before. You simply refuse to acknowledge that people are treated differently because of the color of their skin.

It has been discussed before. It has been pointed out to you that your methodology is flawed. Just because black pre-K kids get disciplined more often does not mean they are being treated differently. It could be because they misbehave more often. You assume rates of misbehavior must be equal as an article of faith, and thus assume any discrepancy in punishment rates is due to racism, not behavior.

 

[Derec]

If she was 15 when she gave birth to her oldest child, she would have legally been unable to give consent to sex.

Depends on the age of her partner, surely. But there is also a difference between actual consent and legal consent. Laws do not necessarily have anything to do with reality, just with what state can charge somebody with. If a state were to raise age of consent to 21, that does not mean 20 year olds suddenly lose their actual ability to consent.

She was accused of stealing booze from Kroger. There is no evidence that this actually happened.

I am sure she didnu nothing ...
Hey, laughing dog, the excuses for Ta'Kiya have already started on here, just as I predicted.

As far as I can tell, the only accusations against her, aside from your ugly and hypocritical accusations, are of petty crimes.

Assault with a deadly weapon is not a "petty crime".

 

[Derec]

Unlike you, I made no assumption about consent. I pointed out it is possible she did not consent.

There was no reason for that speculation. I did not make any assumptions, I merely stated that no reason was provided to speculate in that direction.
Also, why do you (or Toni) not speculate about consent with male shootees who became parents at the same age?

Unlike you, I am making no attempt to smear the victim or the killer.

I am not smearing anybody. "To smear somebody" means "to damage the reputation of (someone) by false accusations; slander." I have not done that.

Her past is completely irrelevant to the circumstances of her killing.

Of course it is. Her past made her what she was the day of her death. What she was influenced the choices she made. Including the choice to steal, to refuse to get out of the car, and finally, to drive into the police officer.

Yet, as usual, you feel the need to speculate on her character and bring up her past. Your ideology is ugly and your selective use of the facts to rationalize your beliefs does not change that fact.

Unlike you, I at least have some facts.

 

[Derec]

Sure; But is the difference due to blackness, or due to some other factor (eg poverty), that happens to correlate with blackness?

The difference is almost certainly multifactorial, with culture playing a big role. A lot of these kids grow up in neighborhoods where they fall into gangs and generally live in the milieu where life is cheap. Like Myon Burell in Minneapolis. 16 years old. Did a drive-by against a rival gang member but missed and killed a 11 year old black girl. Was in prison until, due to our national madness about race in 2020, he was released early by the governor Tim Waltz and AG Keith "Nation of Islam" Ellison. But not before he derailed Amy Klobuchar's presidential run. She was involved jn prosecuting Burrell, and jailing blacks, even when they kill little black girls, did not play well with the Democratic primary electorate in 2020.
Myon Burrell Leaves Prison After Life Sentence Commuted To 20 Years
Btw, the dirt bag was caught recently with a gun and some drugs (including meth and MDMA).
Myon Burrell, freed from life sentence in 2020, charged with gun crime after traffic stop

Anyway, my point was not about reason for the discrepancy, but to acknowledge that it exists (people like Toni still refuse to) and that if affects the overall crime rates in different cities.

US cities also have very variable percentages of black residents. That should be taken into consideration when comparing crime rates of different cities.

Only if it's actually relevant.

But it is relevant.

Your assumption that this implies causation is your own opinion, and your constant harping on the subject strongly suggests that your motive in doing so is fear of black people.

I did not offer any speculation about causation in that post. The cause does not matter for the point I was making, which is that the difference exists and affects overall crime rates in different cities.
As to the cause, just like I mentioned above, it is most likely multifactorial and I think culture plays a big role.

The vast majority of people don't commit homicides. If it were the case that redheads committed six times as many homicides as blondes, that wouldn't be grounds to believe that a given redhead was homicidal, nor would it justify a difference in attitude from police when dealing with redheads.

I did not say that, and trying to imply I did is beyond the pale.
However, if we find such a difference, then you would expect a city with more redheads would, all things being equal, have a higher homicide rate. You would also expect that if two cities have a comparable homicide rates, but one has double the percentage of redheads, that the more blonde city has a more dysfunctional government.

Your beliefs are irrational and ugly; Your abuse of facts to rationalise them doesn't change that fact.

No, your misrepresentation of my views is what is irrational and ugly.